Alcohol Injection System

Old 04-17-2008, 05:27 PM
  #1  
racroom
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Default Alcohol Injection System

How important is it to have the high speed by-pass valve hooked up on the Hilborn Injection System? Can the Secondary By-Pass Valve control the flow of furl by installing a stronger spring? I ran my rail and it was breaking up bad and this week I am going down to a 115 pill from a 125 and see if it neeeds more fuel and then try a 135 just to see what it does. The rail was sick with the way it was set up, any help that anyone can give would be a big help.
Thanks
Ray :?
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:11 PM
  #2  
JimmySmith
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can you give more info cu in , pump and size of inj and nozzles? I am no expert on this stack inj but have one on my car and love it had help from a sprint car friend and from zipper on here but zipper is off line right now will be back shortly. Later J. Smith 4621 racing
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:42 AM
  #3  
racroom
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Default Alcohol Injection System

The motor is a 468 cubic in. the injector nozzles are 35, the by pass pill in it now is a 125, the pump is a hilborn 1-6898.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:11 PM
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zipper06
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Default Re: Alcohol Injection System

Originally Posted by racroom
The motor is a 468 cubic in. the injector nozzles are 35, the by pass pill in it now is a 125, the pump is a hilborn 1-6898.
Are you saying that the nozzles are 35AS as in hilborn size or they rons nozzles. If they are hilborn 35AS then they are for nitro, for straight alcohol, the biggest you need is 20as nozzles. Yes the high speed leanout is a necessary evil for good top end performance. On all the injections that i've hany thing to do with we use 18AS nozzles with the PG150-1 pump, which puts out about 6GPM.
You can plumb the high speed lean out into the feed line to the injection and back to the tank or loop it back into the intake on the pump.
The high speed leanout should be set between 55 and 65%/LBS. you can use a secondary bypass body if you can shim it to the approx. 60%/LBS.
the starting point on the barrel valve should be at 23% and work down from there. The .125 pill is a good starting point with the correct size nozzles, also an EGT setup will tell you if you're too rich or lean, usually around 1050/1100 degrees for 1/4 mile runs.
It also helps if you leakdown tester to come close on the original starting point setup.
Hilborn suggest starting at 25% on the barrel valve, in fact i just an email from Don Enriquiz,(Hilborns resident expert) on a setup i'm working on to run 20% nitro on a 434" motor.


JMO,

Zip.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:39 PM
  #5  
RonOwensRacing
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Yep what zip said .
i run the enderle set up on a 540 and i run 35 nozzles .
For sure check and see witch nozzles you have .

I dont like to say much about tuning on injection seems people get a little testy if they dont like what you say.
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Old 04-19-2008, 05:18 AM
  #6  
racroom
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Default Alcohol Injection System

The nozzles are hilborn nozzles and are a screw in type pill. I do run straight alcohol in this motor. My hat was sent to hilborn in California and had to be replace si they set up the barrel valve and the secondary by pass valve. The rail seems to take of good then just dies out when trying to get more RPM's. Going to change the oil today and see what it looks like to to see if alot going to the oil. I will call Ernie or Don monday and get a high speed by pass valve coming and hook it in. The only numbers on the injector nozzle pills is 35.
Thanks
Ray
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Old 04-19-2008, 06:47 AM
  #7  
zipper06
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Default Re: Alcohol Injection System

Originally Posted by racroom
The nozzles are hilborn nozzles and are a screw in type pill. I do run straight alcohol in this motor. My hat was sent to hilborn in California and had to be replace si they set up the barrel valve and the secondary by pass valve. The rail seems to take of good then just dies out when trying to get more RPM's. Going to change the oil today and see what it looks like to to see if alot going to the oil. I will call Ernie or Don monday and get a high speed by pass valve coming and hook it in. The only numbers on the injector nozzle pills is 35.
Thanks
Ray
oops!!!,

Sorry Ray i was giving you a tuneup for stacks injection, a hat is a different animal. Are you running the nozzles in the manifold? as in 8 nozzles if so the jets may not be too. The barrel valve setting is also different on a hat than on stacks injection.
I appolagize for that mis-conseption it's just when i hear hilborn it usually means stacks unless it's a blown situation.
Don Enriquez, can help you on this one, i don't know much about running hats except in a blown alcohol appliation. I do run dropin pills on my blown engine in the manifold but also about 40% of the alcohol goes thru the blower and the bal. into the manifold.

Zip.
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:16 AM
  #8  
racroom
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Default Alcohol Injection System

That's ok Zip I think the guy that had this before ran it as blown but it isn't now. There are 8 nozzles in the manifold too. I think Don set this up when they sent me the new hat, by setting up I mean adjusting the barrel valve and the secondary by pass valve. I talked to Ernir last week and he said to go from the 115 by-pass pill and try it then go to the 135 and try that and see what happened. I don't know if it is to lean or to rich the way it ran, it was like it had a hard time trying to run and was breaking up pretty bad. I shift at 6500 and I was almost 2/3 track (1/8th mile) before it would shift.
Thanks
Ray
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:41 AM
  #9  
ToddHall
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Default Alcohol Injection

I'm sorta new to this hat injection myself, but I have recently learned that the barrel valve for hat injection is different than one for a blown application. Could be your problem. Talk to Jim at Enderle.
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