ProComp Heads Update,

Old 08-23-2007, 11:09 PM
  #1  
zipper06
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Default ProComp Heads Update,

Ed and Curtis, you're gonna love this :lol:

Remember in the first post that i wouldn't sell a set of procomp heads to the person that had a 144 b&m blower on his 355, and was going up to 383"? (he bought them else where)
He called me last thursday and said he got it running, Sunday morning about 9:00am he calls me in a panic, said he's 1 mile from the house and got on it one time, went up to 5500 and the engine shut down. It would not restart :shock: He pulls a couple plugs and the tips are collasped and the engine turns over like it has no compression, my answer is that it probably doesn't.
He trailers it back home and he's got water/milk in the oil. He calls me later sunday and saids that he has the engine out of the car and the heads off, there's only 8 pistons busted, it pulled off 2 to 3"'s of the top of all pistons above the top ring. He pulls the pan and finds that there is JB weld along the inside of the block in spots where the local race engine builder cleared the rods too much (not always necessary with Eagle H beams) I then started asking questions about the rest of the assembly. It turns out the the short blk. builder recommended Mahle -16cc coated pistons, over $700.00. O'h and he put a new 871 blower on the engine (8lbs boost). I tell him his first mistake is the Mahle pistons and ask him to measure the end gap on the top ring and the piston to wall clearance. It's .028 on the ring and .004 on the piston Also only 1/4" of land between the top of the piston and the top ring, not enough alum there. O'k on the ring but not enough in my opinion on the pistons. O'h forgot it also bent most the valves, they donot like chewing up alum chunks.
Monday he takes it back to the engine builder. Today he calls me back, and the engine builder tells him there's nothing wrong about the pistons and he should have bought 76 CC heads instead of 64 CC heads and it would have worked just fine. Now the engine builder wants him to buy another set of heads and the same pistons.
This is where i come into the rebuild, he can't afford this. I had told him earlier that the pistons were totally wrong for his application, he needs about 3/8" land there and blower pistons not street pistons. So i tell him to call Tom at Arias and give him the imfo. that he gave me and see what they recommended.
He called me back a 1/2 hr. later and told me that Tom laughed at his application and there should be about .400 on the top land and his heads are just fine with the right pistons, which Arias will build for $110.00 with rings,pins,and buttons, but they have to bill them to me because i have an account with them. (no i did not call Arias first)
Bottom line he's out over $7,000.00 and can only use the crank (which now needs polishing), the rods and heads maybe!! because it beat up the heads around the seats and may have damaged the seats.
Ask me again should i have sold those heads to him? (NOT). Because some of this could have come back to me.
I've built lots of blower mtrs and a few nitrous mtrs. and as it has been said here they are different animals and have to be built accordingly.

Zip.
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:03 AM
  #2  
edvancedengines
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Well Zip,
I appreciate you posting this becuase it shows bad things do happen.

I get no pleasure from reading about the misfortues of anyone. I hate it when a customer that could have used me uses another builder and it croaks. It happens at times. I still hate hearoing about anyone's bad situations.

I do my very best to see that it does not happen with my customers and so far I guess I am lucky.

This is a shame. I hate it for the guy. It is another example though that just becuase it says race car engine builder on the door does not make it so.

Ed
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:32 AM
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zipper06
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Ed this was all after the fact, he had already had the short blk built, in fact before a mutual friend introduced us, before he wanted to buy the heads. He had told the engine builder where he wanted to be at and with what he was planning to do. Had i any input on the short blk. he wouldn't be in the situation that's he's now in. i hate too see something like this happen, but now i'm going to try to bail him out with the least cost to him.
I donot for one minute think bad about the engine builder, he builds lot's of roundie round engines and i donot even know him personally. But as it's been said Blower and nitrous engine are different breeds. I will help this person and not charge him anything that i donot spend money on as long as he does the labor, and i do also feel bad for the mistakes that he was talked into..

Zip.
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:12 AM
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cboggs
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Zip,

You dogged a bullet there, .. if you had sold him those heads
it would have all been your fault, ..


Curtis
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:56 AM
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rabiddawg
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pro comps are chinese made arent they?
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:31 PM
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zipper06
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Originally Posted by rabiddawg
pro comps are chinese made arent they?

Yep, and i sell them for street use only but not for use on any high perfomance,high out put engine..

RE, Curtis ,
You're right if i would have sold him those heads instead of a mail order house, the less than knowledgable engine builder would have laid all the blame on me and possibly would have brought it to my table.


Zip.
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Old 08-25-2007, 03:53 PM
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fishman1
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do you not like mahle pistons or am i reading it wrong
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:19 PM
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zipper06
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You're reading it right, i donot like Mahle pistons for a nitrous or blown application. They may be o'k for a street application or normally asperated engine but in my opinion the skirts are too short and too thin, also the deck thickness is too thin. Now grant it they are light weight, but i personally would not run them or put them in an engine i build, for hard all out racing. I know they have been around a long time in Indy type mtr. and formula 1 type racing and maybe some NASCAR teams use them.
But i'm not impressed with the sets that i have seen, but i also have the same opinion of Probe pistons. I may be old school, but i don't think you will find either of these pistons in any top notch NHRA race car, be it top fuel on down to super stock.

Now this just my opinion and it's not meant to make anyone mad.


Zip.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:34 AM
  #9  
billhendren
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Originally Posted by zipper06
You're reading it right, i donot like Mahle pistons for a nitrous or blown application. They may be o'k for a street application or normally asperated engine but in my opinion the skirts are too short and too thin, also the deck thickness is too thin. Now grant it they are light weight, but i personally would not run them or put them in an engine i build, for hard all out racing. I know they have been around a long time in Indy type mtr. and formula 1 type racing and maybe some NASCAR teams use them.
But i'm not impressed with the sets that i have seen, but i also have the same opinion of Probe pistons. I may be old school, but i don't think you will find either of these pistons in any top notch NHRA race car, be it top fuel on down to super stock.

Now this just my opinion and it's not meant to make anyone mad.


I will second your opinion,we had several sets fail in 15.0-1 circle track applications,a call to Mahle resulted in us being told not to run over 13.0-1 with there pistons,back to J-E or C-P Bill
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:32 PM
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zipper06
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(quote)
I will second your opinion,we had several sets fail in 15.0-1 circle track applications,a call to Mahle resulted in us being told not to run over 13.0-1 with there pistons,back to J-E or C-P

Bill

Good to hear it from someone who builds engines for a living.

Zip.
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