bixblk

Your are right about the common sense part !

Scooterz

I don't know... I am not a expert... but this does not add up. I would like to believe that if your motor was filled with the proper oil level, antifreeze, belts are right, upon install combined with being a brand new motor, you should not have these issues. I hear of people who "break their motors in at the track" & hammer down on them ASAP... no issues. If I understood you correctly, you went around 3 miles not even getting on it & shut it down @ 200 degrees. It is hard to believe that someone took the time to build an HP motor & didn't fill it with the proper lubricants??? That you could not take it for a short drive w/o popping out the freeze plugs & overheating??? The motor was built, tested, dyno'd, etc... but a short drive & all of this damage??? I have to agree with you- I would expect more than that. We can criticize Jeff here; but I don't think he is some unacknowledged, unsuspecting person who happened to forget the oil/antifreeze level on his brand new HP motor he probably spent THOUSANDS on... could it be that they did not mill the heads properly?? Could it be that freeze plugs were not done right or a piston-ring was cracked/wrong etc... could it be that there was a coolant blockage somewhere/gasket issue??? I would do a VERY CLOSE AUTOPSY & find out more. Keep your cool Jeff & keep digging the facts...

bixblk

Thats exactly right, I was monitoring water temp and oil for a very short 2 to 3 mile run not even taking it pass 3000 rpms, breaking it in, listening paying attention, it was the first time on the street,unless you consider going around the shop in the parking lot. Here is my best guess, please consider this : The freeze plugs were either not in all the way or pushed out and got cocked from "improper coolant" or they may have fell out and they laid on the cross member, I did look under the car before I started it to look for leaks stains or anything that would cause me not to start it, no leaks or stains or freeze plugs, so truely I had no reason to believe the motor would have any issues what so ever. fired it up, great oil pressure 60 lbs the temp gauge took about 1 minute to start moving up. Now remember they are made to read fluid not block air temp. I put the car in gear and drove it keeping an eye on the gauges, never went about 200 (near the end) 2 / 3 miles later the oil pressure starting dropping because the clearances were getting tight, I saw oil pressure moving downward shut off the fuel pump turned off the key and the motor stayed running about 20 secs because of the heat in it. Called the builder, after pushing it home (with help),found (3) Freeze plugs under the car when we started to push it ,told him the story, he suggested letting it cool down and starting it to see if had oil pressure, I ran water thru it it just ran thru because of the missing freeze plugs, but it was hot so I just ran it thru anyway
Cool to the touch I fired it and it had 60 lbs of oil pressure, ran it 20 secs up to the trailor (about 25 feet) and shut it down, because now it is air cooled, winched it up took it to mike to put the freeze plugs back in it ?????? called friday come get your car we pulled the motor because of the visual heat damage, now that was unauthorized work. We never talked about yanking the motor, we spoke, he said he needed to look at it so he dissassembled the motor (again unauthorized) and Zap told me that it looked like the parts are good but saw alot of heat, it did melt the cam button and had oil stain all around, now no way of telling what happened because I need to take his word on it ?????
Thats the story.
Also I do not feel like anyone is critizing me, a great pratice is to pay attention and check things before firing , which I did . Maybe I was not clear about that. Also we have many different "levels of car guys" and people on this site, and the basics are always a great place to start, I understand. I read alot of opinions on here and I am fasinated by the general knowledge. I got no hurt feelings on the comments, keep them coming. They keep me thing and thats fine.
We will see how this all turns out, hopefully the right thing will happen.

MEMRACING62

Mike lopez / high speed preformance is one of the best shops in the area. I hope both of you work this out in a way that is fair to both.

bixblk

I agree, that is why I have been using his services for 9 years, I know he stays on top of the work done, but clearly this "job" needs to be worked out. Also from a busniess point of view it would be short sited of him to burn this relationship, I am still going to need alot of stuff done and I have been an excellent cash customer. In fact Mike owed me 2400 for over a 15 months on a 383 sbc that I sold to him that he freshed up and put in a customers car, it took awhile for him to pay me. I never pressed him for it. He also delayed paying me on a T 10 trans that I sold him and saw it for sale at a couple of swap meets. Shame on me ....so I have done my end to help Mike out, now it is time for him to do the right thing. I will promise you folks this, I will not talk bad about his work but as far as this job goes..... we will see.
I appreciate your opinion and respect it, lets hope this works out.
If it does not work out, I will put the facts in this thread. Than people can develope their own opinion.

bixblk

Had a third party look at the motor, it does not look good. I gave High Speed Performance a chance (x3) to make it right. When we picked the dissassembled 496 BBC the owner and the builder were there and neither one talked to me about making this right, they did give us a hand putting it the truck and besides some "body langauge" and "posturing" nothing was said about this . I am just a small time racer with a family and ready to go fast and this type of bull shi. happens, sorry to say but they "are not welcome in my pit." Not sure where I am going with this yet. But this cost me alot of money and I will not forget that.
Hey I hope others have better experiences. I still will not threw mud because I am a man of my word, but others are not.
Call with questions
Jeff M 708-308-0282

mopar1968

I have read this entire thread, You mean to tell us that you didn't think it were your RESPONSIBILTY to check the coolant before winter :?: Just how long have you been racing :?: I don't know of a race engine builder that will even warranty a engine :!: Yes sir it is up to you to check it, I run pure water during race season and when it is time to stable her i always drain and fill her 70/30 coolant and water then run her to get it mixed up and thru out engine :!: JMO

Mark

fast75vega

yes sir..... i agree 100%! yes it sucks but it is what it is :wink:

MEMRACING62

yup...that about sums it up...a bitter pill to swallow & I bet it never happens again. I had that happen to a friend that I built a motor for, left it full of water when we went deer hunting & a cold spell hit when we were gone...snapped the block...you will be lucky if that didn't happen here.jmo

bixblk

Just to remind everyone:
The car was picked up in late oct fresh motor and winterized, I specifically asked if it had water or coolant, Mike said coolant. I told him the car would be parked in an unheated garage next to another chevelle. If you read the thread you would have read that. Upon pick up from the shop in Oct the car went around the block at his shop threw the belts, mike rebushed the alt and they seemed to hold , the car got put on the trailer and put in the unheated garage. In case I was not clear earlier. I did check the radiator LEVEL, when I put the car in the garage in Oct because it had thrown the belt, no I did not check the specific gravity or the proper ratio or quality of the coolant, it certainly looked like coolant. It had coolant in it in Oct, as it did when I fired it up the first time in june, I also checked it then, so the radiator had coolant or a fluid that looked like coolant to me.Slightly low but not even enought to add untill I drove it than I would check it. I bumped the motor thru out the winter to change the spring tension on the valve train, but never started it till june. Just to make it clear, YES THE LEVEL WAS CHECKED BOTH IN OCT AND JUNE,NOT THE QUALITY OR PROPER RATIO . and I DID A VISUAL CHECK UNDER THE CAR TO CHECK FOR LEAKS. NO SIGNS OF ANY LEAKS
Mark the car is a street car that goes to the track a dozen times a year,Mike is very aware of that. With the motor build and installed and picked up in Oct, after being delayed for 4 weeks, I told Mike that I was not sure if the car was going to the track in 2010, that is why we specifically talked about coolant. Mike said "IT HAS COOLANT"

If I did not make that part clear, I hope it is now.
So if your comment :You mean to tell us that you didn't think it were your RESPONSIBILTY to check the coolant before winter .

Yes: level checked not quality. And as far as the warranty I need honesty, I need to be told the truth, and the coolant in this case seems to be an issue and also now I have hard evidence that at least some of internal components in the motor were not as represented.
Also as far as that dig about my racing time and skill set, I will let that slide. Obviously I know enought to get into trouble. Honest this build was just too damn new to even think it would have any issues, and
I DID A VISUAL CAR INSPECTION AND A COOLANT LEVEL INSPECTION
Also, had I been told that there was water in the motor, I would have probably responded with "why" yapped about the paying a boat load of money for a street car motor that did have coolant and than I would have "winterized" it myself when I got it home. ITS THAT SIMPLE, I NEED THE CORRECT INFORMATION Thats the warranty/honesty ?
Come on, you think I wanted this to happen ?

I am always open to questions and valid critism, we all learn from that,
But I still feel that I based my actions on the info that I was given, and I did do things properly. If I was lied too or something was miscommunicated to me and I was not told the truth, than all bets are off.
In conclusion: Yes it is my job to check things out, which I did... I did a "informal check out list" with Mike when I picked up the car, that I use and go over when I have something build and I am picking it up. Could be a trans, a motor, what ever, it is a piece of paper that I use to write down settings, important info that I may need to maintain the set up, dyno numbers, why it hazed the tires, valve adjustments, NOS questions, etc, and on that sheet I asked about the coolant question.
So the only thing I did wrong "was take a mans word as being truthful"
Jeff 708-308-0282

And mem:
did you tell the guy you built the motor for it had coolant or it had water, if you told him coolant and it had water SHAME ON YOU, IF YOU TOLD HIM IT HAD WATER THAN SHAME ON HIM ?
So yup that sums it up
A very bitter pill to swallow and it will not happen again
And this is not even close to being over, I am getting more info about the build.
Again I got no other problems with high speed and Mike, except this issue. And I am not sure how but it will be worked out.