View Poll Results: Big block or Small block
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll
Big block or Small block
08-17-2007, 02:40 AM
#111
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RACING JUNKIE
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,044
Well heres a comparison too.
73 nova, 396 bored 040 over 12 to 1 compression, 305 magnum hydralic camshaft, small closed chamber oval port heads, 750 double pumper single plane intake. The car ran decent numbers for a heavy car footbraking 7.0's 1/8 this motor had been in this car for 12 plus years with many bottles of nitrous run thru it by the previous owner. Well it finally slung a (stock) rod out one night at the track.
I had been building a smallblock as a replace motor because I knew it wasn't going to be long before the motor was gonna go south and besides I was a smallblock guy before getting this car. So in goes a 350 .060 12 to 1 comp, 305 magnum camshaft and eldebrock aluminum performer rpm heads, 750 carb, single plane intake. I put the motor in the car just knowing it was gonna be faster because of the better heads it had and the fact the car was much lighter now w/ the smalley in place. WRONG, same identical numbers 7'0s 1/8. My point?
I was shifting the big iron between 4800 and 5000 rpm, it was all torque. I was winding up that smalley to 7800 and sometimes 8000 to get same times. Did the small block live 12 years? I dont know I ended up selling the car so I'll never know but I'd bet it didnt. Another comparison.
I am currently driving a heavy all steel 71 nova that has a 496 bbc, it runs 6.0's in the 1/8 shifting around 6200 to 6400 and we got maybe $3500 in this motor nothing special just a torque monster and we run with the lighter tube chassis cars with the high-reving smallblocks that are always oiling the track down when they scatter. Just my opinion but I prefer big blocks now.
73 nova, 396 bored 040 over 12 to 1 compression, 305 magnum hydralic camshaft, small closed chamber oval port heads, 750 double pumper single plane intake. The car ran decent numbers for a heavy car footbraking 7.0's 1/8 this motor had been in this car for 12 plus years with many bottles of nitrous run thru it by the previous owner. Well it finally slung a (stock) rod out one night at the track.
I had been building a smallblock as a replace motor because I knew it wasn't going to be long before the motor was gonna go south and besides I was a smallblock guy before getting this car. So in goes a 350 .060 12 to 1 comp, 305 magnum camshaft and eldebrock aluminum performer rpm heads, 750 carb, single plane intake. I put the motor in the car just knowing it was gonna be faster because of the better heads it had and the fact the car was much lighter now w/ the smalley in place. WRONG, same identical numbers 7'0s 1/8. My point?
I was shifting the big iron between 4800 and 5000 rpm, it was all torque. I was winding up that smalley to 7800 and sometimes 8000 to get same times. Did the small block live 12 years? I dont know I ended up selling the car so I'll never know but I'd bet it didnt. Another comparison.
I am currently driving a heavy all steel 71 nova that has a 496 bbc, it runs 6.0's in the 1/8 shifting around 6200 to 6400 and we got maybe $3500 in this motor nothing special just a torque monster and we run with the lighter tube chassis cars with the high-reving smallblocks that are always oiling the track down when they scatter. Just my opinion but I prefer big blocks now.
08-17-2007, 04:30 AM
#112
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ID
Posts: 1,122
Originally Posted by woodsman
Originally Posted by chevguy65
I went to my trusty race calculator at wallace racing and it shows you only need 597 hp at the flywheel to run a 10.09 @ 130mph in a 3400 lb car.
I say it is a lot cheaper to build a BBC to get that HP and TQ needed, but some guys just got to go small block.
I say it is a lot cheaper to build a BBC to get that HP and TQ needed, but some guys just got to go small block.
I also went to
http://www.eldemoniorojo.com/calculator.htm
First was
http://www.wallaceracing.com/hpcalculatorquarter.php
They range from 537 to 687 FWHP to go 10.09 in a 3400 lb car.
I also added 100lbs to one and that is the highest HP #.
I hear what you guys are saying though, and in 3 or 4 years when my 355 is worn out, I think I wil go BBC.
8) :P 8) 
08-17-2007, 06:51 AM
#113
Senior Member
DYNO TECH
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Leonard, Texas
Posts: 414
Originally Posted by bjuice
Originally Posted by blittle
Originally Posted by camaro74454
It's a tough call with the SB's running BB cubes...I'de just go with the 700 750 hp thing and limit it to that.
Originally Posted by bjuice
LOL....bLITTLE i was waiting for someone to come back with that one...i was planning my way around this question 2 days ago with my 1st reply on this post..
the ET 10.'s were brought into the Equation....i came up with the 3400 lb rule cause thats what would take in most street trim cars W/dRIVER....all we did was figured out how much HP it would take to power a 3400 lbs car into the 10.0's....and i think wes came up with 670 hp to the rear wheels...and i calculated 20% loss of HP thru the drive train and chassis which would put close to 840 hp at the crank....before these calculations were posted i used a nice round figure of 900 hp...seems i wasn't too far off...
but i would not hesitate to back this up to 750hp and the BBC chevy still comes out on the better side......making 750 HP on NATURAL ASPIRATED 23 degree SBC is still accomplishing a great feat......i have had some ball busting alumin rod 406's that just made 660 hp 750 hp on a 23 degree motor is very attainable but you would not do it with run of the mill parts and a so so- mechanic......my experience owning and spectating..
here is Wes finding he posted a few pages back.....i promise i didn't load up the Contest before the debate started..it only seems that way becuase a BBC makes so much more HP....lol....
Brian I show to get 670hp @ the rear wheel on 10.00 ET w/ 136 mph in a 3400# 69 Camaro.
the ET 10.'s were brought into the Equation....i came up with the 3400 lb rule cause thats what would take in most street trim cars W/dRIVER....all we did was figured out how much HP it would take to power a 3400 lbs car into the 10.0's....and i think wes came up with 670 hp to the rear wheels...and i calculated 20% loss of HP thru the drive train and chassis which would put close to 840 hp at the crank....before these calculations were posted i used a nice round figure of 900 hp...seems i wasn't too far off...
but i would not hesitate to back this up to 750hp and the BBC chevy still comes out on the better side......making 750 HP on NATURAL ASPIRATED 23 degree SBC is still accomplishing a great feat......i have had some ball busting alumin rod 406's that just made 660 hp 750 hp on a 23 degree motor is very attainable but you would not do it with run of the mill parts and a so so- mechanic......my experience owning and spectating..
here is Wes finding he posted a few pages back.....i promise i didn't load up the Contest before the debate started..it only seems that way becuase a BBC makes so much more HP....lol....
Brian I show to get 670hp @ the rear wheel on 10.00 ET w/ 136 mph in a 3400# 69 Camaro.
You'll never here me say a SB is capable more power than a BB. I've owned BB's though and I'm still not convenced that working within a specific budget, HP range, and remaining normally asparated that a BB is cheaper to build. The parts for BB alone are about a 1/3 again higher than SB stuff. You loose a tenth right out of the gate just with the additional wieght, did you factor in how many ponies it takes to make up that 10th. You have to be careful where the cutoff point is because as you said making 750 on a 23 deg SB is obtainable, anything over that will require a big jump to at least 18 deg valve train and the cost sky rockets from there. You can always make more power with a BB just becuase it's a bigger pump and has more room to expand even bigger. It's just not cost effective below a certain range.
Also when we start talking about making a car run in the 10's, which is not that difficult. There are many more things that come into play than just HP. I've seen guys with much more engine than me and they just can't get them down the track, either poor tuneup, mismatched parts or suspension setup.
My 3500 LB.(with driver) camaro is a prime example of a 23 deg. SB running low 10's (best et around 9.90 with really good air) I gaurantee I can't build a BB that will run with it for the same money and that's with me doing all the assembly, the only stuff I sub out is machine work. Put this in your benchtop dyno and see what you come up with, never use that stuff myself.
Here are my basic components, no secrets or exotic parts all off the shelf stuff:
GM 400 4 bolt main block .040 over w/filler
5.7 eagle H beam rods
Ross 14.1 pistons
C&A zero gap rings
Cola 3.75 forged crank .002 under / externally balanced
AFR 227 23 deg. 2.100/1.60 CNC race ported heads (some additional port work done by me)
Super Victor Intake (some additional port work)
Holley 1000 HP Carb
Fluidamper balancer
Herbert 635 roller on 106 LC
MSD billet dist
1.875 Hookers
Harland Sharp 1.5 Roller Rockers
.100 long push rods
7 qt. moroso pan
Now as was mentioned before, many things go into getting this sled down the track, everything has to work together. We could each have the same engine and get different results from them just because of mechanical or tuning ability.
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Wesley
08-17-2007, 07:47 AM
#114
Member
JUNIOR BUILDER
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: sarasota,florida
Posts: 73
my last small block i had in my 68 back in 93,it was a 350 2 bolt and it had just some stock x rods,stock bolts and stock crank,i had fuelly heads ported,victor jr intake and a ultradyne solid cam,i ran a 125 shot threw it at super chevy and went 11.4,no biggie the thing was i shifted everytime i raced at 7600,many times i went further when i was trying to blow it or being stupid,that motor lasted me 6 years of hard racing,i sold it and the guy spun the key way and retorqued the crank wrong and it finnaly came apart(1 year after)...some say i just got lucky with that block,i say build a SBC,or at least vote SBC :lol: if not just for my story ..also it had cheap KB hyperputetics
..also it had cheap KB hyperputetics
08-17-2007, 09:26 AM
#115
Administrator
RACING JUNKIE
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Greenville s.c.
Posts: 3,236
Originally Posted by blittle
Originally Posted by bjuice
Originally Posted by blittle
Originally Posted by camaro74454
It's a tough call with the SB's running BB cubes...I'de just go with the 700 750 hp thing and limit it to that.
Originally Posted by bjuice
LOL....bLITTLE i was waiting for someone to come back with that one...i was planning my way around this question 2 days ago with my 1st reply on this post..
the ET 10.'s were brought into the Equation....i came up with the 3400 lb rule cause thats what would take in most street trim cars W/dRIVER....all we did was figured out how much HP it would take to power a 3400 lbs car into the 10.0's....and i think wes came up with 670 hp to the rear wheels...and i calculated 20% loss of HP thru the drive train and chassis which would put close to 840 hp at the crank....before these calculations were posted i used a nice round figure of 900 hp...seems i wasn't too far off...
but i would not hesitate to back this up to 750hp and the BBC chevy still comes out on the better side......making 750 HP on NATURAL ASPIRATED 23 degree SBC is still accomplishing a great feat......i have had some ball busting alumin rod 406's that just made 660 hp 750 hp on a 23 degree motor is very attainable but you would not do it with run of the mill parts and a so so- mechanic......my experience owning and spectating..
here is Wes finding he posted a few pages back.....i promise i didn't load up the Contest before the debate started..it only seems that way becuase a BBC makes so much more HP....lol....
Brian I show to get 670hp @ the rear wheel on 10.00 ET w/ 136 mph in a 3400# 69 Camaro.
the ET 10.'s were brought into the Equation....i came up with the 3400 lb rule cause thats what would take in most street trim cars W/dRIVER....all we did was figured out how much HP it would take to power a 3400 lbs car into the 10.0's....and i think wes came up with 670 hp to the rear wheels...and i calculated 20% loss of HP thru the drive train and chassis which would put close to 840 hp at the crank....before these calculations were posted i used a nice round figure of 900 hp...seems i wasn't too far off...
but i would not hesitate to back this up to 750hp and the BBC chevy still comes out on the better side......making 750 HP on NATURAL ASPIRATED 23 degree SBC is still accomplishing a great feat......i have had some ball busting alumin rod 406's that just made 660 hp 750 hp on a 23 degree motor is very attainable but you would not do it with run of the mill parts and a so so- mechanic......my experience owning and spectating..
here is Wes finding he posted a few pages back.....i promise i didn't load up the Contest before the debate started..it only seems that way becuase a BBC makes so much more HP....lol....
Brian I show to get 670hp @ the rear wheel on 10.00 ET w/ 136 mph in a 3400# 69 Camaro.
You'll never here me say a SB is capable more power than a BB. I've owned BB's though and I'm still not convenced that working within a specific budget, HP range, and remaining normally asparated that a BB is cheaper to build. The parts for BB alone are about a 1/3 again higher than SB stuff. You loose a tenth right out of the gate just with the additional wieght, did you factor in how many ponies it takes to make up that 10th. You have to be careful where the cutoff point is because as you said making 750 on a 23 deg SB is obtainable, anything over that will require a big jump to at least 18 deg valve train and the cost sky rockets from there. You can always make more power with a BB just becuase it's a bigger pump and has more room to expand even bigger. It's just not cost effective below a certain range.
Also when we start talking about making a car run in the 10's, which is not that difficult. There are many more things that come into play than just HP. I've seen guys with much more engine than me and they just can't get them down the track, either poor tuneup, mismatched parts or suspension setup.
My 3500 LB.(with driver) camaro is a prime example of a 23 deg. SB running low 10's (best et around 9.90 with really good air) I gaurantee I can't build a BB that will run with it for the same money and that's with me doing all the assembly, the only stuff I sub out is machine work. Put this in your benchtop dyno and see what you come up with, never use that stuff myself.
Here are my basic components, no secrets or exotic parts all off the shelf stuff:
GM 400 4 bolt main block .040 over w/filler
5.7 eagle H beam rods
Ross 14.1 pistons
C&A zero gap rings
Cola 3.75 forged crank .002 under / externally balanced
AFR 227 23 deg. 2.100/1.60 CNC race ported heads (some additional port work done by me)
Super Victor Intake (some additional port work)
Holley 1000 HP Carb
Fluidamper balancer
Herbert 635 roller on 106 LC
MSD billet dist
1.875 Hookers
Harland Sharp 1.5 Roller Rockers
.100 long push rods
7 qt. moroso pan
Now as was mentioned before, many things go into getting this sled down the track, everything has to work together. We could each have the same engine and get different results from them just because of mechanical or tuning ability.
Best SBC defense post Yet..GOOD JOB blittle !!!!
also sounds like you have a good set up to have some fun with.
Brian
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Wesley
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Bjuice..
"I'M YOUR HUCKLEBERRY ! "
Bjuice..
"I'M YOUR HUCKLEBERRY ! "
08-17-2007, 02:18 PM
#116
Senior Member
DYNO TECH
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Leonard, Texas
Posts: 414
Thanks guys, my stuff is not that special but it works good with my combination. So where are we, anyone agree or disagree with my previous statement?
I will say if I decide I want 1500 HP you'll see a BB in my camaro. I have to squeeze 1000 out of the SB first just to say I did. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wait till you see the that one! Got a buddy runs comp with a 318 SB running low 8's in 3000 pound camaro. Putting some of that technology to use in the next one. 14 deg. heads, roller cam bearings, etc...$$$$$$$$$ :cry: :cry: :cry: :shock:
I will say if I decide I want 1500 HP you'll see a BB in my camaro. I have to squeeze 1000 out of the SB first just to say I did. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wait till you see the that one! Got a buddy runs comp with a 318 SB running low 8's in 3000 pound camaro. Putting some of that technology to use in the next one. 14 deg. heads, roller cam bearings, etc...$$$$$$$$$ :cry: :cry: :cry: :shock:
08-17-2007, 04:12 PM
#117
Senior Member
SENIOR BUILDER
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 122
My small block puts out 1586hp at 25% overdriven,it is a 436 SBC in a 3200lb backhalf nova,it is getting a all aluminum 400SBC as we speak with the same components as the 436 and this one is gonna be faster,I will be able to turn this one 50%over on alcohol and not worry,I had a bigblock and it went to a new owner,it was a good boat anchor,Small blocks rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08-17-2007, 05:13 PM
#118
Senior Member
DYNO OPERATOR
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 525
Originally Posted by knova70
My small block puts out 1586hp at 25% overdriven,it is a 436 SBC in a 3200lb backhalf nova,it is getting a all aluminum 400SBC as we speak with the same components as the 436 and this one is gonna be faster,I will be able to turn this one 50%over on alcohol and not worry,I had a bigblock and it went to a new owner,it was a good boat anchor,Small blocks rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08-17-2007, 05:30 PM
#119
Senior Member
SENIOR BUILDER
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 122
I went a 5.28 @ 136mph with a 1.22 60ft in the 1/8th,that was my last pass this year,had about 20 runs on the motor,trying to get the fuel problems straightend out,come to find out the the block was cracked in 2 cylinders and was getting water in those 2 cylinders when it was getting up to tempurature,did a leak down on it hot and it was 60% on those 2 cylinders,so hopefully with the new aliminum motor it will go faster,it will be done soon,gotta get my piston rings and rod bearings and then it goes together,after working on other peoples cars all day its hard to work on my own, Have you run the chevy 2 yet?