Zimmerman- Self Defense or Murder ?

[bjuice]

Anyone following this trial ?

[MEMRACING62]

cant help but follow it....it's all the news and talk shows are talking about.....I say self defense.....martin put his life at risk when he decided to attack zimmerman.

[zipper06]

I've been following it, what i have to say will probably be unpopular here on the forum, but it's just my opinion, if i had the money i would buy a few billbords in Sandford Fl. calling for Zimmerion to be Gov. of Fl. and donate to his defense. This whole trial is because of NAACP, and their tax free statis, they are so political that in my opinion they should not have a tax free statis.
In my neighborhood if someone was walking around in a HOODY after dark in 70* weather, he would have been accosted by atleast 5 neighbors including myself, and if that person was agressive and attacked anyone of my neighbors or me he would have been dead in less than a heartbeat.
I do have to mention that i live in a small town and everyone is respectful and protective of one another, we have almost no crime rate in my town, and a person can leave their 4 wheeler or anything else in their front yard and it doesn't get touched.

BJ i have to mention when i lived in Anderson the crime rate was already becomming bad and in Greenville it was really bad. While i lived in Anderson i went to the 1968 Gator nationals with a car and while i was gone someone broke into my shop and stold all my tools and 2 sets of heads and everything tht wasn't nailed down, except my machinest tool box, i guess they had never see a set of micrometers so they left them. About 5 mo's later i sold my house and moved back to a Chgo. surburb which had less crime.

O"K i had my speal, i hate a thief and i never want to shoot anyone but if i had too i wouldn't hasitate.

JMO JMO JMO

Zip.

[bjuice]

I've been following it, what i have to say will probably be unpopular here on the forum, but it's just my opinion, if i had the money i would buy a few billbords in Sandford Fl. calling for Zimmerion to be Gov. of Fl. and donate to his defense. This whole trial is because of NAACP, and their tax free statis, they are so political that in my opinion they should not have a tax free statis.
In my neighborhood if someone was walking around in a HOODY after dark in 70* weather, he would have been accosted by atleast 5 neighbors including myself, and if that person was agressive and attacked anyone of my neighbors or me he would have been dead in less than a heartbeat.
I do have to mention that i live in a small town and everyone is respectful and protective of one another, we have almost no crime rate in my town, and a person can leave their 4 wheeler or anything else in their front yard and it doesn't get touched.

BJ i have to mention when i lived in Anderson the crime rate was already becomming bad and in Greenville it was really bad. While i lived in Anderson i went to the Gator nationals with a car and while i was gone someone broke into my shop and stold all my tools and 2 sets of heads and everything tht wasn't nailed down, except my machinest tool box, i guess they had never see a set of micrometers so they left them. About 5 mo's later i sold my house and moved back to a Chgo. surburb which had less crime.

O"K i had my speal, i hate a thief and i never want to shoot anyone but if i had too i wouldn't hasitate.

JMO JMO JMO

Zip.

I agree self defense Zip. They cannot convict him if there is a shred of reasonable doubt. No question from what I saw so far plenty of reasonable doubt raised .

Your right about the crime here in Greenville,Anderson, Spartanburg area real bad..

Yeah Zip I feel a little like you on some things on here and being unpopular. I have to

Keep reminding myself I come from a very conservative state when it comes to guns and personal defense. Many other states do not embrace our culture we have in SC when it comes to that stuff.

[Harbone]

I agree Bjuice, reasonable doubt is going to get him off. The prosecutions star witness, Rachel Jeantel, was about as cocky as any witness could be on the stand.
After seeing some of the testimony and evidence so far I dont doubt that Zimmerman may have pushed his boundries following the kid but his self defense story is going to stick and unless something incriminating pops up he will be found not guilty. My warning is to anyone that lives in that area keep your doors locked and guns close by cause when the juries decision comes down it gonna be riot and looting time! :evil:

[fast75vega]

i havent been following the whole thing... but wasnt he sneaking around in a "gated" community of which he didnt even live? the way i see it... if OJ got found not guilty then george has nothing to worry about

[oldandtired]

The whole thing stunk from the beginning.
First a picture of a 12 year old boy.
Then "Trayvon could be my child".
Then Jessie and Al.........

[outlaw256]

black guy kills white guy. nobody says or does anything. white guy kills a black guy every black in America yells racism..makes me not only mad but even more racist than I already am...

[bjuice]

I understand what your saying Ken. They are making side shows out of this case with thibgs like why did he own a gun.. Well because its his right.

The air marshall Zimmermans friend testified he feels all non felons should own and carry a firearm.

This may sound strange to some coming from a former law enforcement officer. I feel that NON VIOLENT VICTIMLESS CRIMES ( Which accounts for most drug offenses excluding trafficking) that ends up being a felony should be reviewed in 10 yrs or so and if that person is reformed and walking the line he/she should automatically get their civil rights back including right to own and carry firearm.

I mean a 19 year old caught with a OZ of reefer is a now convicted felon and so is the dude who went in a movie theater and killed 20 people...both convicted felons bur can you honestly say its the same ????

[oldandtired]

Have you heard about the Midwest City,. Oklahoma hostage situation?
(Large) man takes 2 year old from shopping cart and holds knife pointed at her side. Mother in a panic, negotiations failed, etc.

"Police said Wallace then started a 60-second countdown that the suspect warned would end up with him harming the child.
That’s when police Capt. David Huff walked up to Wallace and shot him point-blank in the head."

If there was nobody with a carry permit in the store, at least the Police Capt. solved the problem.

[Swiley383]

I say self defense based on what I have heard so far.I know any time a self defence shooting happens that it has to be investageted and justified. When justifiedthat should be the end of it no court and lawyer fees and no million $$$$ lawsuit. This poor guy will be hounded the rest of his life lord knows what his legal bill will add up to.

Bjuice, I agree about non violent felons getting a second chance at a clean slateafter a period of time. My dad and I were talking about that last weekend in fact.

[Scooterz]

This case is not really about self defense or murder. I have been following it. I believe Zimmerman to be innocent & that he was clearly in danger & thought he needed defend himself. He didn't want to kill that kid. This case is about Black VS White... period. BTW: Zimmerman looks Hispanic???? "Stand your ground" engagement been meant. Very questionable jury selection too!!! This is about an old race problem we have had for too long.... some Black people just feel they are still victims in this day & age still. I wish we could move on & just get along.

I thought the "knock knock" joke opening line was a poor choice for the defense... bad taste & timing... I mean a kid died... not a good idea to crack jokes when defending your client.

[Tod74]

Guilty or innocent isn't for me to say, however if they DON'T convict him get ready for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.....just my opinion.


I agree with BJUICE on the felon thing. Although my crime could have very easily turned out very bad...thank God I never hurt or killed anyone. So maybe not the same as a drug offense.I have stated on this forum before that I am a recovering alcoholic....and a felon. I got two DUI in a three year period in the late 90's....I learned my lesson and my last drink was January 20, 2000. My sobriety date is 1-21-2000. I can never own a firearm, ever. I showed piss poor judgement in my 20's so I guess I made my bed so I will lie in it.

sorry to get off topic.

[Harbone]

That's not off topic Tod, that's exactly what Bjuice is talking about. I have a buddy in the same boat as you. about 15 years ago he had a tough time after his wife left him, got a bunch of DUI's in a short time and got a felony charge. Had to plead guilty or take the chance of doing time if he took the case to court. He was an avid hunter, had to get rid of all his hunting stuff and that felony is now a permanent mark. :evil:

[Swiley383]

It's not just about guns like Harbone and Tod 74 said its a mark that will always follow you lots of company's won't hire a person with a felony no matter how many years ago it was.lots of good people have made mistakes when the were younger mostly from partying there should be some consideration taken.

[Tod74]

I was actually granted Alternative Misdemeanor Sentencing which means once I completed all my probation and time served etc I could petition court to change it from a D felony to an A misdemeanor. The judge told me when she sentenced me that if I did what I was supposed to do, that she would grant the request. I was never told there was a time limit....I waited a few years due to no money for lawyer only to find out it was too late.

[bjuice]

The good thing you have going is that its a State Charge. Meaning the State govener could pardon you or could even expunge. There is no charge for sending up your application request. I will not lie if you had an Attorney that was connected to the governer or if you new someone that could speak and hand deliver on your account this could get done pretty darn quick for you.

Count your blessings it wasn't a Federal Charge...[/b]

[itsabird]

murder, but he will get off.

[outlaw256]

well this ishow I see it.a black kid lookin like a punk or thug fi you will. wearin a hoodie baggy jeans. profiling if you want but that's how all the thugs dress.walkin down the road. white guy sees him and they have words. black kid gets his ass up in the air with his smart mouth. thinks hes a bad ass and goes after white guy. white guy suprises black kid with gun and bang black kid dead. I hate it for his parents.i really do.but he had it coming. if he had been here and it was me he came after. id have filled his ass plum full of lead.i wont be intimidated or threatened ever.its been tried and it didn't turn out pretty.im not a badass.but I am a man who lives and lets live so leave me alone or you will pay.thats how ive always been and will always be.my life and my families lives come before anything. I will kill you then worry about the law later. better to deal with the law than try to come back from the dead.if they cut this guy loose there will be riots in the streets. blacks gotta keep this crap alive.well let them riot. they always seem to burn their own places down anyway.and if they do start tearing up white people places and hurting them kill some more. im sorry guys but im tired of all this crap.

[mopar1968]

I say Self Defense :!: :!:

[Scooterz]

I was actually granted Alternative Misdemeanor Sentencing which means once I completed all my probation and time served etc I could petition court to change it from a D felony to an A misdemeanor. The judge told me when she sentenced me that if I did what I was supposed to do, that she would grant the request. I was never told there was a time limit....I waited a few years due to no money for lawyer only to find out it was too late.

Tod: Here in Oregon, I got felony in 1988 & was charged w Assault 2 (bad day drinking w/ a wild friend) we got into a fight. Went jail, probation, fines, etc.... 9 yrs later it was reduced to a misdemeanor. Current laws here say that I can own/posses a gun if: I did not use one when I committed the felony, I could only have one felony offense, & 15 years had to pass after completion of probation. I fit those guidelines... but it also says to purchase a brand new gun, I must have it expunged first. Basically, I can posses & own but not purchase new until have my lawyer do formally.

[Tod74]

Thats interesting you mention that about State Law....this topic came up at work with a friend of mine....I have been told that some state laws allow it after certain amount of time etc, but FEDERAL LAW prohibits any convicted felon from owning or possessing firearms or amunition... So you could still be charged under federal law....idk I actually do not WANT a gun. However I hate the idea that I could possibly be sent to prison if a buddy has one in my truck or whatever.I have thought about hiring a lawyer to sit down with me and go over my options, if there are any.

[bjuice]

Thats interesting you mention that about State Law....this topic came up at work with a friend of mine....I have been told that some state laws allow it after certain amount of time etc, but FEDERAL LAW prohibits any convicted felon from owning or possessing firearms or amunition... So you could still be charged under federal law....idk I actually do not WANT a gun. However I hate the idea that I could possibly be sent to prison if a buddy has one in my truck or whatever.I have thought about hiring a lawyer to sit down with me and go over my options, if there are any.

It would be in your best interest to consult with a lawyer..Scoot cover yourself too. The FEDS are stupid serious when making gun charges.. ( 10 yrs a pop ) .

This just happened locally..listen to this. local man comes home after midnight and sees two mask men breaking in his home. He grabs his girlfriends handgun approaches the two mask men and ends up shooting and killing them after a confrontation.
The local sheriff clears the man of any wrong doing because of SC castle law stand your ground...

The feds came in a month later and charged him Felon in posession of firearm..he pled to 6 yrs last month meaning he will serve 48 months.

He had a check charge back from 10 years ago that somehow became a Felony.

Now let me ask you does this sound like they took a criminal off the streets to protect the community or was the FEDS padding their convictions ?

I am a Lifelong registered republican,a Former law enforcement officer (Selective Enforcement ) city and State level..I am a lifelong NRA member...with this said I know the system is BROKE with this Felon thing...many think the type of crime determines if its a Felony or not while this may be somewhat true how its really determined is if the crime is punishable by more than 1 year in prison even if probation is handed down.
Because of my past experience I am very passionate when I say the Felony needs to be broken down as Violent and/or victimless..

There are MANY great people out here that are pillers of our community that may have one of those Felonies I speak of...much like Scoot and Tod...there is another sub culture of these people out here. We do not hear much about it because these people want it to remain in their past for fear of repercussion of society (jobs) etc....

Tod and Scoot I stand and Salute you BOTH for speaking about this. America has it wrong here and we need to fix it.

Sorry so long of post but somethings I feel strongly about. It bothers me when red tape infringes on Americans 2nd Amendment right.

Don't get me started on incarceration..America locks up more of its people than any country in the world ! WHY ??? MONEY !!!! Let me say one word and you do the google thing UNICOR.

OK I will shut up now....

:evil:

[bjuice]

This crazy day and time where the home invasions are all too common. I would hate to think my only option to protect my family came down to hand to hand..

What I would recommend to anyone that cannot own a firearm legally is the 209 magnum front break muzzle loader. This thing shoots a 50 cal. Round 2100 ft per second with enough energy to drop a mature bull moose in its tracks 100 yards away.

This loader uses Dry pellets as the ignitor. altough not recommended in operation instructions you CAN load the pellets and if the weapon is needed just insert the primer and your hot. The primer is nothing more than a shotgun primer.
Even thou we are speaking about self defense with this weapon I WOULD NOT keep the gun around house with pellets and primer. It takes 3 seconds to load primer

You don't have but one shot but thats all you will need.

These are not considered firearms or ammo and legal for anyone to buy or own

[TheYellaBrick]

There are also some high powered multi shot pellet guns out there, and the old standby 'Canine Early Warning System' ! :D :D :D

[outlaw256]

well I have a different take on this. law or no law about felons. if I feel the need for a gun in my house ill have one.the founding fathers said its my right,so be it.a kid gets popped for drugs and 40 yrs later he cant protect his family.thin k not boys. a dui felony can stop you. that's stupid...I can see violent felons not being able to own oner but not simple drug possessions and dui .lot of laws out there now days.easy to become a felon and not really try....

[bjuice]

well I have a different take on this. law or no law about felons. if I feel the need for a gun in my house ill have one.the founding fathers said its my right,so be it.a kid gets popped for drugs and 40 yrs later he cant protect his family.thin k not boys. a dui felony can stop you. that's stupid...I can see violent felons not being able to own oner but not simple drug possessions and dui .lot of laws out there now days.easy to become a felon and not really try....

Outlaw I AGREE 110%.

Not to jump subject but have you saw the reality show on the 1% MTC Club Warlocks ?.
Wow !. Question Ken. I do not know much about the MTC club life trom within but I could not imagine any 81 club members making a open reality show like that or Outlaws for that matter.... Also I saw on news where Warlocks from another state shot up Warlocks from Florida ? Are they not the same club ?

[oldandtired]

Not to jump subject but have you saw the reality show on the 1% MTC Club Warlocks ?.
Wow !. Question Ken. I do not know much about the MTC club life trom within but I could not imagine any 81 club members making a open reality show like that or Outlaws for that matter.... Also I saw on news where Warlocks from another state shot up Warlocks from Florida ? Are they not the same club ?
I watched that as well. The guy gets out of the big house and immediately violates probation in several ways.
Then moving the remains of a members wife to a closer cemetery, they all arm up locked and loaded???

[outlaw256]

now if I tell you all how things are suppose to be ,then what does that make me.i will tell yall this.i don't watch those shows. most of it is bs.if this guy goes on tv and starts talkin,one of 2 things are happening.one,every word he says is scripted.and approved by the warlocks.the national prez usually approves of every word he is gonna say.or his chapter prez must do it.2, hes runnin his mouth without approval and he will become a missing person.almost every club ive been involved with in oneway or another is a closed society.we,they do not tell anyone their business.even brothers all wearing the same patch don't know what the hells going on in their club unless the prez wants it known.now for this tv thing,i cant tell ya whats up because like I said before I don't watch them.but I can tell you its not much different that honey boob boo.because a lot of it is made for tv,maybe not all but a lot.we may live on the edge of society but we are not stupid.why would any brother let the cat out of the bag. its for tv dude...I will say that a lot of the young guns comin up now don't know or believe like we did.we make no deals with the law.no matter what kinda time we may be lookin at.we stood our ground so to speak. we did the crime now we will do the time.not todays people.some,not all talk to get a lighter sentence and I hate that kind a guy.if they are saying things on the show that makes you think about them letting the cat out you can bet your bottom dollar they have been thru every word that was said before it was said.now for the shootout.i haven't heard anything but if it is warlock against warlock its internal fight.and if it goes on very long it will get bloody.warlocks are a group of brothers who believe shoot first.then find out the answers.not good when you need to be under the radar..now as far as going armed.well yes .a lot of guys who wear a patch carry a gun. they have to.they must protect not only themselves but the brothers as well.and the warlocks are or were at war with a couple of well known clubs.so it is not to smart to not be carrying a gun. screw permits.alot of them boys are vets. those are the ones who think they paid for their permit.and I agree with them on that!!!!!! just wearing a warlock patch can get you killed in some places.clubs have territories they protect.and they will protect them with bullets and knives.anyone who wears a patch knows where he can fly his own colors and where not to fly them.these guys are insanely loyal to each other and anyone else they like.when they say I got your back they mean it. its not just words to us its part of our manhood.we are loyal to a fault. most are very conservative in their politics.they are more patriotic than most americans.very protective of anyone or anything they love.id rather have 2 brothers watchin my back than a whole army of street punks.these guys don't believe in getting a citizeninvolved in their problems so they don't go around killin innocent people.if a brothwer comes at you you can bet your ass you did something you were not suppose to do....now ive gone and said just about more than I should but I really haven't said anything.see how it works. talk all day and never say a word....lol

[bjuice]

now if I tell you all how things are suppose to be ,then what does that make me.i will tell yall this.i don't watch those shows. most of it is bs.if this guy goes on tv and starts talkin,one of 2 things are happening.one,every word he says is scripted.and approved by the warlocks.the national prez usually approves of every word he is gonna say.or his chapter prez must do it.2, hes runnin his mouth without approval and he will become a missing person.almost every club ive been involved with in oneway or another is a closed society.we,they do not tell anyone their business.even brothers all wearing the same patch don't know what the hells going on in their club unless the prez wants it known.now for this tv thing,i cant tell ya whats up because like I said before I don't watch them.but I can tell you its not much different that honey boob boo.because a lot of it is made for tv,maybe not all but a lot.we may live on the edge of society but we are not stupid.why would any brother let the cat out of the bag. its for tv dude...I will say that a lot of the young guns comin up now don't know or believe like we did.we make no deals with the law.no matter what kinda time we may be lookin at.we stood our ground so to speak. we did the crime now we will do the time.not todays people.some,not all talk to get a lighter sentence and I hate that kind a guy.if they are saying things on the show that makes you think about them letting the cat out you can bet your bottom dollar they have been thru every word that was said before it was said.now for the shootout.i haven't heard anything but if it is warlock against warlock its internal fight.and if it goes on very long it will get bloody.warlocks are a group of brothers who believe shoot first.then find out the answers.not good when you need to be under the radar..now as far as going armed.well yes .a lot of guys who wear a patch carry a gun. they have to.they must protect not only themselves but the brothers as well.and the warlocks are or were at war with a couple of well known clubs.so it is not to smart to not be carrying a gun. screw permits.alot of them boys are vets. those are the ones who think they paid for their permit.and I agree with them on that!!!!!! just wearing a warlock patch can get you killed in some places.clubs have territories they protect.and they will protect them with bullets and knives.anyone who wears a patch knows where he can fly his own colors and where not to fly them.these guys are insanely loyal to each other and anyone else they like.when they say I got your back they mean it. its not just words to us its part of our manhood.we are loyal to a fault. most are very conservative in their politics.they are more patriotic than most americans.very protective of anyone or anything they love.id rather have 2 brothers watchin my back than a whole army of street punks.these guys don't believe in getting a citizeninvolved in their problems so they don't go around killin innocent people.if a brothwer comes at you you can bet your ass you did something you were not suppose to do....now ive gone and said just about more than I should but I really haven't said anything.see how it works. talk all day and never say a word....lol


thanks Outlaw..That makes sense...very interesting stuff !

[TheYellaBrick]

3 items of importance here; -closed society - loyalty - patriots

Experienced warriors who are closed mouth, loyal, and love America......I want THESE guys on MY side when the schitt hits the fans......

[outlaw256]

don't worry dd, they will be..they love this country.even more than a regular citizen.and they show it.they love kids...and they show it.they love their wives and they show it.back in the nam days sonny barger formthe hells angels told noxon he would take his club to nam and they would finish the war.of course they didn't look likecitizens or live like them and Nixon said no way.think about it. most were already vets and knew how to fight.i believe with all my heart that if Nixon had done just what sonny wanted they would have brought it to a end a lot earlier..h.a. fightin guerilla style in nam with all the supplies they needed. hell yeah they would have won.

[TheYellaBrick]

In Nam we had only ONE arm tired behind our back. Now we have both hands and both feet tied up........TURN LOOSE OUR DOGS OF WAR !

[Harbone]

If she mentions a "van down by the river" at any time during the trial I am gonna piss myself :!: :lol:


http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w92/74marolt/oaFsVJh_zpse4fd2ea9.jpg

[itsabird]

Damn!! thats eerie :shock:

[outlaw256]

she even has a stach!!!

[bjuice]

Holy Crap !!! Funny as Hell bone. I showed a buddy and we laughed until our stomachs hurt !!!!! LMAO.

Man I tell ya since I made this post this case has went Bad to Worse...The racist side has surfaced BIG time. I gotta stand beside Outlaw on this one.

Let me say how MUCH I despise prosecution . Yes I despise them !!!!!.they seek convictions over the truth...I was a police officer in mid 80's and State Trooper early 90's. so I know 1st hand what snakes they are...Just like Outlaw said about old school bikers being solid.. New school NOT so much...Same in Cop world I suited up and worked with some Solid men..this time period on my platoon I was working with 8 vietnam vets one of them was my field training officer 5 out of the 8 are now deceased from cystic fibrosis..we all know it was agent orange.. My FTO was a hell of a man "Master Patrolman" Gene Lee . He was always cool and calm..on 3rd one night we came under fire from some crack heads between some old mill houses. Gene was composed and in control as the rounds of a 30.06 was richocheting above our heads.. I was 21 yrs old and scared as hell..un-mistakable sound of this round buzzing a few feet above your head.. While Gene held the line and kept the a$$hole pinned down he kept reassuring me he would not let me get hurt...after this ended I saw Gene over in the Dark behind a patrol car shaking and trembling and sweating. The other veteran officers told me to leave him alone..come to find out Gene had taken a AK47 round thru his shoulder while on patrol in Nam..basically his unit and Charlie walked up on each other at a clearing Genes marine unit dropped to the prone position and starting firing. Gene reached back for Ammo box and took the round in shoulder blades . He woke up in Germany. He had a hole in between his shoulder blades big enough to put your fist in...Gene did not tell me the story his wife did..after a few years of getting to know him off duty he did open up to me. Gene was 6 ft 1 250 lbs rock hard..he was a man phyiscally as well as mentally.. When he died his wife would pick him up and change his diaper. He loved his country his wife and family..He was and still is my Hero..There are Very few Gene Lee's out here today...As time went on it law enforcement got weaker and weaker and the main reason I hung it up..not many good solid men left in that field.. As a whole I do not trust COPs as a whole unit.. After working in the trenches with the Gene Lee's ..it just ain' t the same trying to lay it down with a liberal college grad that will write a supplemental on their fellow officer/soldier..unless you been in this line of work just trust me in what I say.. I know this is long but I had it on my heart to tell you about Gene.

MORAL OF STORY : Vets... ( Vietnam Vets ) in particular are a different breed. A solid Group ..No matter if they are in a 1% Mtc club or some type of former civil service.. They are a dying breed that can never be replaced Its been an honor to serve beside these guys !!

[TheYellaBrick]

Even in this latest batch of vets, it's the ones who have been in the mud and the blood who are still solid. The REMF's are who ya need to watch out for.
I live in a small town, Idaho, where the local sheriff and City PD 'say' they are all for the 2A and protecting us cits against the Feds taking our weapons, but ........??? Trust in ANY government entity has deteriorated so badly and eye opening RAPIDLY, that ya just need to cover your own asp first......
I truly do not recognize my country any more...........

[outlaw256]

dd, you hit it right there with the last few words....I truly do not recognize my country anymore.this is not the country I grew up with.that I loved with all my heart.that I felt safe anywhere I went.im almost ashamed of what they have done to her.ive never believed that revolutions were the answer. but my mind has changed. it will take one to get my country back but then we will have to have people to run it. not the same bunch we had or ones like them. it rather have a congress made up of hardcore scooter tramps and vets than anyone else.in fact my dad said once that to be in public office in d.c you should have had to serve in the armed forces.. not a bad idea...

[Tod74]

I have watched the outlaw biker shows. There is one on the Warlocks and also the HA and a couple of other clubs. I don't know why but that stuff really interests me. I have no comment on the activities of these clubs( alleged) but you have to admire their loyalty to each other.

I ride a Honda VTX and I have seen guys on a forum for VTX that buy patches and vests and want to ride around like they are an MC or something. a couple of them were approached by members of an MC and asked to remove the vests, because they had a State name on the rocker. Apparently the Members that asked them to remove them were not aggressive or threatening, they just asked them to take em off so they did. That made me curious so I did some reading and learned a little about the 3 pc patch and rockers claiming territory etc. Pretty interesting, I had no clue.

[TheYellaBrick]

After the Civil War, groups of 'misplaced' combat vets got together as 'gangs' and raised hell, working their way West. Ever since, combat vets have come home looking for a place to belong, flesh and blood horses morphed into iron horses. Once you have that 'combat adrenaline' in your veins, you gotta git yer fix in one way or another. The loyalty stems from brothers in arms, platoon loyalty.....

[bjuice]

Reading the replies if you want to take a look at a group of guys that : Do not conform, outcast, hard core military and Loyal to the end to ONE ANOTHER not to an organization or goverment...Its the FFL ( French Forgien Legion ..Legionaires..although they fight where french send them they Do not or have alliegance to France only themselves...They are made up of guys from all over the world many that their countrys turned their backs on them or they are fed up with their country.. Yes there are quite a few Outlaws in this organization....don' t stop reading this Check up on these guys.. Tod if the MTC club interest you the FFL you will find interesting for sure.


These guys operate only in HOT SPOT areas. They spend a great deal of time on Ivory coast, Somalia..They have been a BIG presence in IRAQ and Afganistan....They operate under the Code as our Black Ops..If they get in trouble on a misson ,killed etc...NO ONE is coming for them. They are on their own.

[Swiley383]

You guys should check out the books Chris Kyle wrote American sniper and American gun. American sniper is about his life including as a SEAL and what he whent thru when he got home.the man was a patriot and a badass I think we need more with his outlook on being a patriot.the gun guys on this site will enjoy American gun lots of history on how they played roles in battle. The book cover all kinds of battlefield history and how battles let to the development of various arms.

[bjuice]

Well boys its 7:52 pm Eastern time...the Jury has been out over 14 hrs...Although the state HAS NOT proved their case beyond reasonible doubt the Jury is asking for Clarification on Manslaughter..which carries 30 years...

This us Scary for ALL american citizens if you ever have to defend yourself and the bad guy expires ( with it without firearm being the weapon it could be your fist )

I am highly pissed at the COPS for charging the guy after caving to pressure .

Zimmermans life is screwed No matter the verdict.
:evil: :evil:

[bjuice]

You guys should check out the books Chris Kyle wrote American sniper and American gun. American sniper is about his life including as a SEAL and what he whent thru when he got home.the man was a patriot and a badass I think we need more with his outlook on being a patriot.the gun guys on this site will enjoy American gun lots of history on how they played roles in battle. The book cover all kinds of battlefield history and how battles let to the development of various arms.

Got and read the Book American Sniper. Per Kyles admission his kills exceeded 250 but confirmed was under 180 I think.. Longest confirmed was over 2300 yards.

He would birdog ahead of Army,Marine etc convoys thru his scope while on a roof top in another village. He loved the 300 winny..

They tried to bring him up on court martial a few times cause when the convoy got to where the dead taliban they found no weapon..the dead terroist buddy ran off with the IED etc...the only thing that saved him is that he had a whitness

So is Own tried screwing him over for saving their lives and in the end his OWN still took his life for helping.

God bless Kyle' family !

[Swiley383]

The Verdict was just read NOT GUILTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bjuice]

The Verdict was just read NOT GUILTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am getting Old. My heart was Racing TOO much....THANK GOD for Justice not only for George but for ALL that have the right to protect LIFE,LIBERTY,PROPERTY !!!!!!

[Swiley383]

What makes Chris Kyle's murder even worse was the fact that Obozo never mentioned his death or service to this country. Flags were ordered to half staff for Whitney Houston not for a American HERO.

[bjuice]

Your right on Swiley..and what right did Obama have commenting on this case on national T.V. Our system is innocent until proven guilty...but our president gets up in front of American people and shows prejudice toward prosecution !!! WTF !!!!.

This wasn't a civil rights violation it was Self Defense....At NO time did the 17 yr old have a right to put his hands on Zimmernan..much less the beat down...but guess what it happened and it happens everyday....this time the guy getting beat down struck back.

Now guys I don't know much about the crime where you live but where I live and by what I see on National News....the days of thugs ( Black,white,Brown) is coming to an end...people are arming themselves they are tired of it...I can send you multiple links of where people ( Law Abiding) citizens have shot home invasions,strong arm and arm robbery.....the local state request for concealed weapons permit has went up so much its backlogged the process by 6 months....

[Swiley383]

Same here in TN carry permit holders are increasing at a very high rate at one time getting into the class took a few weeks they were filling up quick. There Re so many places teaching the permit class now it has gotten better just about every gun shop has a class going now.

[Tod74]

You guys want to get mad, turn to MELISSA HARRIS PERRY's show. It's all about race with her.

[fast75vega]

You guys want to get mad, turn to MELISSA HARRIS PERRY's show. It's all about race with her.

someone needs to kick her in her ass..... and stomp that white boy in to the ground.... what a panel of retards :(

[Harbone]

CCW just finally passed in Illinois, it will be months if not a year until they get everything sorted out and I can go take my 16 hours of certification. Not that I live in a high crime area but having that additional peace of mind that if I ever needed to protect myself and my family, I will have the ability to do so.

[Swiley383]

16hrs crap we just have a 8hr class here it actually not Bad class. There other self defense methods discussed. I hope I never need it but is is nice to know it is there just in case. We live in a small town west of Nashville with not much crime bad guys know most people are armed. Nashville is a different story certain areas have high gang activity and crime including right down the road from my work.

[bjuice]

The castle law in Sc is a run off of stand your ground law except with much more latitude. For example last year a guy came home to find two mask men breaking into his window by the AC unit . He shot both on head.. Dead...it was not covered self defense but castle law. Now do I agree..not for me to say its a judgement call. I will say my brother had to shoot aguy in a self defense issue. Unfortunatley the guy died..My brother never was the same.

I will do everything I can to avoid taking a life..I think my actions last December with the intruder on my property backs up my statement. If I had a hidden agenda I am sure I couldhave dropped the hammer and walked but at the end of the day you gotta stand before your maker and account for your actions..not to mention sleep at night....Each man has to make that split second decision if it arrises.

[ajk]

What is required in your guys state to obtain a permit? Here in Wisconsin I was able to receive mine with just my Hunters Safety Permit that I received back in "79" when I was 12.

[Swiley383]

8hr class, written test (mostly common sence stuff you could probably pass with out the class) a passing score on the range and a back ground check with finger prints

[Swiley383]

I just read the justice department is now reviewing the case for violations to see if they can do any sort of prosecution. This is could drag on for years.

[TheYellaBrick]

As has been stated...you pull the trigger on someone, YOUR LIFE CHANGES from that millisecond of action based on input based on mindset and training or lack of...A responsible Law Abiding Citizen has to THINK before pulling the trigger, bad guys don't have to think because they don't care about anything but the very second they are living and nothing about the consequences. In that regard the LAC is at a serious disadvantage. This is why training, visualization, and mind set are so important to survive( the courts and justice system and after) any incident where a bad guy is offed.

[Swiley383]

It somthing a person may never recover from I hope I never have to make that decision. Here in TN we also have the Castle doctrine as well as stand your ground it also makes it harder for the bad or his family to file a lawsuit against the good guys.

[bjuice]

True words brick..Swiley the thing about the Feds and the Civil case is that they have minimal say if its not a civil violation under the color of law Example : Rodney King when the LA Cops beat him senseless while he was down..( very wrong )....The normal citizen doesn't fall under that type color of law where the Feds get involved..Not saying they wont try it..

I know we have spoken about guns and self defense on here the last few months and thats all good because it is a big part of who we are as Americans and to me Ranks right up there with Hot Rods...Something I want to say that I don't have to say is this..

I am not a guy that feels a man needs to carry a loaded firearm on his side everytime he leaves his house. While CWP is a right..its not neccessary all the time..IMO... Long before CWP went into place a person in SC could carry in their glove box in their home and on their person on their property or buisness...This has always been more than enough for me...when I was an officer i didn't carry off duty more than I did...Just Saying... 8)

[outlaw256]

boss I got to say this and I know people wont agree but in todays world.i wont be caught without my gun or atleast a good knife.but I prefer gun nowdays.you never know when some guy is going to jump your butt.you don't have to know them.its just a crazy world today. you cant really trust anyone.piss off the right person and you can die.not just get into a fight but get killed.and that is not going to happen to me.or my family.we live in a very country area.i don't even own a house key(my shops are locked up like fort knox lol) but not the house. but I sleep with my wife and a 357.i no longer think that if this guy messes with me im gonna kick his ass. I now think if this guy messes with me im gonna kill him,first.not a good way to think.i know but what his his thoughts..see what I mean. I know im not helping things by thinkin like this but.ive got to..killing a man is hard on the soul, but coming back from the dead his harder...

[Harbone]

killing a man is hard on the soul, but coming back from the dead his harder...

and that gentlemen is the "quote of the day" right there!

[bjuice]

Yes sir I get that for sure....

I really watched this trial and listened to all the evidence that has been made public pre and post verdict....one juror released a statement and said " Both could have walked away "

I agree 100% that at some point in time both could have walked away and it got to a point one could not walk away and had to engage past the point of no return.

While I agree with the law and verdict in this case...I have a questiion in my mind . Would George have walked away before it got to that point of NO RETURN if he was not armed ? We know thru the defense own testimony that George was soft, non confrontational, NOT the fighting type....
I like to think my thought process is fair and balanced.

Food for thought !!!!

[TheYellaBrick]

Packing iron DOES raise one's confidence level. OVER confidence can grow into
aggression - intimidation - crossing into the LAND of NO RETURN. This is where PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and TRAINING come into the picture. We can armchair the heck out of this, but only the two parties involved really know the shoulda - coulda - woulda been's. Mean while in the USA, 9,000 blacks are killed each year by other blacks...........

[Scooterz]

So I am a racist I guess. Had George been Black or Travon been White; or roles reversed, we would not be talking about this. Instead we hear "Travon could have been one of the Obamas kids" or that a civil case is coming, or how Travon was racially profiled, he died becasue of his race... is the root of what I keep hearing from the medias. I disagree. The kid was a trouble maker & paid the ultimate price unfortunately... Zimmerman did not set out to kill a Black kid that day. So if we agree with the verdict, it is racist.

We reap what we sow. He was killed b/c he was trying to kill... period. So I am a racist in a racist country because I agree with the verdict. NAACP & ACLU, Sharpton, Jackson, etc... shame on you for trying to distort truth!!!

[TheYellaBrick]

Ponder this ; Was Paula Dean marched out (one year AFTER the 'tell all' interview) to set the stage for the race baiters in case Zimmerman was proven not guilty ?
This has all been choreographed to set fire to the streets of our nation....and it started at the top.....DIVIDE and CONQUER......

[TheYellaBrick]

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/07/17/houston-trayvon-martin-protesters-beat-grandmother-trying-to-rush-child-to-the-hospital/

[Swiley383]

These people most likely have no clue about the details of the case. I believe they just want to cause a mayhem. Trying to stop a sick kid
In need of medical attention there is no excuse. What if that kid had not made it in time do you think any protesters would have been held accountable? Not to mention the assault. This makes me so mad I can't see strait!!!! Thank The Lord they got around those idiots!!

[Tod74]

I hope I don't offend anyone with this. I have no gripe if Brian deletes it if he
Feels it's out of line ...

I don't know what it's like to be black. I am quite sure there are racist pigs white people out there that hate African Americans and I am equally sure there are racist blacks that hate whites just as much....but Dag gone I get sick and freakin tired of hearing about the poor black man bla bla bla. I have a couple of black friends, and they don't act that way...why is it so many think that anytime something happens to them it is ONLY because they are black? Back When I used to post here a lot I was a supervisor at work. I work in a machine shop and what we do is a skilled trade and not everyone can do it. I had one guy, he happen to be black, that we worked with for a year and a half. He could sort of do the work, but often times I would have to do it over or help him to the point that it made more sense to just do it myself. The decision was made by MY BOSS to no longer allow him to set jobs up and just make him a button pusher( less $$) well guess what? Apparently I am a racist and I was holding him back....he made the comment that maybe he could change his skin color over Xmas vacation so he could get a fair shake....he was the nicest guy in the world up til that point....I never saw that coming.

I agree if Zimmerman were black you would never hear of this case. I DO think he profiled him and I do think NO WAY he follows him had he not bern armed. Once the YOUNG MAN started beating his butt he defended himself. It's a sad situation that a young man lost his life and another will be a marked man for the rest of his. Until people like Al Sharptin and JJ stop doing everything they can to stir up crap, this will never change.

Another example is the dating site " Black peoplemeet.Com"

What would happen if I started a site called " WHITEPEOPLEMEET.com" ?

You know what would happen.

Sorry for the long rant

[zipper06]

I haven't posted on this thread since almost the beginning of it, but now that it's winding down i will post my views.
First of all, it was never mintioed during the trial ( i don't know why) did george zimmeron know that Travon was not armed? i would assume he was armed since almost all black teens carry wepons. As YB saided blacks kill blacks at a higher rate than any other crimes in the US, but let one white person or any other person kill a black person and NAACP, JS and other do gooders go balistic.
If you want racist, I challege the NAACP send one white person, child or adult down the street of a predomately black neighborhood, such as
Memphis, Chicago,Clevland,Okland, CA. and a lot of other cities and see if he makes the first couple blks without being robbed, beaten or even shot.
In our justice system we are taught to respect the court system (which i do) now we have the DOJ looking a case that was proven by the Jury that there was no malis, and yet NAACP will still not shut up. Maybe it's time to change the law but right now it is what it is.

O'K i'm done ranting, so i'll shut up. But don't come into my neighborhood wearing a Hoodie and acting suspious, or there will be another trial.

Zip.

[TheYellaBrick]

Any wonder that many blacks are just flat moldable and malable and worked as useful idiots;....

http://www.suntimes.com/news/jackson/21341420-452/investigate-the-racial-context-behind-martins-death.html

[outlaw256]

well guys I am a racist.i have been for a long time. ive watched this world of today and how do you exspect me not to be. I see what it is.blacks have a very different culture than I do.they have way different beliefs.and a lot of them are not good for us as a society or as a country.babies being born left and right and no father around. who pays well I do and you do. when they cant get what they want what do they do, they riot..and it goes on and on.and if you think profiling is bad, to me it isn't.because 99% of the people who have been profiled ,the profiler has been right. as was Zimmerman..hell his trial proved that.he was right about the thug to begin with!

[Scooterz]

I agree with you guys... Swiley, Zip, Ken, T74, DD, Juice, Harb, etc...

I was afraid to say I was a "racist" to you guys... but I meant it as society has profiled me that way due to my beliefs/values. I am White, 40yrs, male. I agree w/ the verdict... therefore I am a racist in many eyes.

Every color is prone to violence, ignorance, acting like a victim, etc... but it is an individual CHOICE to be better & wise up. God gave us free will for a reason. My point is that their skin color is not an excuse for having LOOSER behavior... each person can choose to get educated, man up & be a father, get off drugs/not sell them etc... I am sick of the "oppression" = victim excuses. In the USA, a kid can rise up from the projects & change his/her life.

[bjuice]

I respect everyone's feelings that has posted. Since I started the thread I want to go on record and say I am NOT a racist. I judge every man on his actions or re-actions

[TheRabbit]

Travon made the decision to go get himself shot. I don't feel sorry for him. It was only a matter of time. The tragedy is it has ruined George's life too.
It was not a racist issue. George responded to the 911 operator and said he looked like a black guy. I hope he sues CNN into bankruptcy and sues Travons family too. His life is ruined and he was found innocent!!

I have to admit I honestly did not think an all female jury would find him not guilty. I just knew they would feel sorry for Trayvon for being a troubled child and it was not his fault bla bla bla.

They got it right even with all the pressure of the media and goberment getting involved.

[MEMRACING62]

X2 RABBIT!

[Scooterz]

I don't know Wabb... I agree that race did not work as a strategy in the trial, but the prosecution sure tried to make it that way... most of the world knew about this trial; because of race.

I am still troubled by it. Being passive & tolerating race-baiting is very dangerous. It is very deliberately designed by the enemy... simply saying we are not a part of that thinking is not working anymore.

The trial was about race... which is why it got to be so massive. If the same crime was involving Black/Black, or White/White, Purple/Purple, etc.... what would happen?? According to the media & many (not all) Black folks, we are "racist" because we accept the verdict & justice prevailed. Even the courts are racist according to NAACP... this case has always been about racism. This was not a complicated matter... the assailant physically attacked, told victim he was "going to die tonight" & reached for his gun... it was so clearly self-defense that I can't comprehend how a prosecutor could even try for Murder???? It is becasue of RACE. My point in all of this is that I am sick of being judged & thrown into the racist bucket by my own fellow American peers.

How do we really fix this issue?? It is not by saying "we don't judge" by skin color, or make bias decisions due to race.... that ship has sailed. So we be neutral & passive... which fuels the fire even more. They want more special treatment that no White citizen here would get. We should call it out for what it is... enough of us stand up & maybe it will eventually stop! Unite instead of being victims & wanting more. We rule in favor of Justice... those who are thugs are thugs... despite their color, age, etc.... they should be accountable.

[TheRabbit]

How do we really fix this issue?? .

It's not about being racist. That was the only tool they had to make this into what the news wanted it to be. A BIG STORY and people watched the heck out of it. No matter what verdict was given the MEDIA won. They don't report the news any more they MAKE the news!!

[outlaw256]

well scooter, ive tried over the yrs not to be a racist.i really have. but I just cant,not with all that's been going on over the last 25 yrs.i watched and listened and ive learned. my racism was brought on by the very people who wanted to yell racist!! Jackson,sharpton and even made worse by watching the president of the united states...oh yeah and rappers...

[Scooterz]

Ken,

I appreciate your transparency... but you are the type of man who would help someone on the side of road if it were safe & they needed it... you are not the racist the media wants portray. The Racisim I am taking about is not like burning crosses or wearing White robes. It is far more evolved like you said over the last years.... it is far more insidious.