hard filled sbc overheats real bad

[chevyart]

ran my new 377 cu in chev(400 block) that is hard filled to water pumpholes.. i have a 69 camarp 3 core radiator and a summit electric water pump that kept my 355 cu in sbc cool at around 200 degrees max at the dragstrip(no hard filler in this block) asn engine was 525 horses. now running a pro built 377 cu in(400 block) sbc that is hard filed and has around 600 horses and it start overheating in staging lanes and burnout and at lights it up to a scary 240 degrees and at end of track i have to wait there ans let it cools down to 180 degrees and drive it back to pits and on this return it gets back up to that scary 240 degrees. the intake does not have provisions to run lines from front to back for cooling..... i know there are 3 tricks for cooling that MAY help. #! is to rung the cooling lines from front to back of intake(1 line on each side) #2 is to get a thick spacer that fits between intake and thermoshat housing and runs a line out of each side of spacer to the bungs on each side of the aluminum heads, with one being in back of head and one in front of head. and trick #3 is to drill and tap the sides of the electric water pump and run # 6 lines over to holes drilled above the hard fill(where water still runs in block) there, holes are drilled right at center of block( there are 2 exhaust valve above this point) and cooled water is circulated to there.. i am desperate to fix or help this cooling probles and will do all 3 things if necessary. any help would be greatly appreciated

[wazup]

Chevyart, do you run a thermosat or anything to slow down the water running thru the rad it might be going thru the rad to fast and not being cooled down before returning to the engine. What fan are you running. Timing to high or to low will also make an engine run hot. I have ran 400 blocks half filled and driven them on the road with no overheating. One thing you need to think about is you are running less water now that the block is filled. I ran lines from the water pump to the heads (not the block) to keep from having a hot spot between the two center cylinders. I only ran lines like that when running nitrous. I hope some of this will help as there is alot of things that can make an engine run hot.

[chevyart]

one thing, now that you mention it is that that in place of a thermostat there should be a restrictor plate. there is none. there was one when i had the 355 in there and it just never made it back in with the engine swap.. it is a drag car only, 13-1 comp and big cam and big alum cylinder heard. what about me only having a 7lb pressure cap. some say it should be up in the 20s lb cap.its a small electric fan running off a relay and it did fine for the 5355(max 200 temp at the track) i have different restrictor. plates. how big of a center should should be on the plate. why the lines from water pump to the heads and not to holes in top(center) of block. why not run all 3 different cooling lines at once. thanks art

[fast75vega]

. it is a drag car only, 13-1 comp and big cam and big alum cylinder heard. what about me only having a 7lb pressure cap. some say it should be up in the 20s lb cap art

drag race or road... you need a re-stricter in there .... i always just knocked the center out of a thermostat and used it for one ;)

the cap should be at least 16 -20 lb :wink:

[coloradoracerguy]

I would definately put a much higher pressure cap on there, the higher pressure raises the boiling point of the water quite a bit. As to a restrictor, I wouldn't, not really needed. Just make sure you have good flow of coolant. I don't run one at all in my dragster and never have. 600 inch chevy and if I'm at 100-110 at the staging lanes before the run, I'm around 180 by the time I'm back at my pit. One of the issues with yours is the block being filled. It reduces the cooling capacity of your whole system, and it will heat up faster. The best thing you can do at this point is put in the biggest radiator you can fit in the car. You need system capacity, and the block filler just took away about half of it. Additionally, you're making more power which means more heat. The larger the cooling system, the better it's able to deal with the heat.

So my best advice is the biggest and thickest (three or four core aluminum with the 1" wide core tubes) radiator you can get, good shroud and biggest fan you can get. Put either Redline water wetter or Royal Purple Purple Ice in the system as well, it helps. Tap the manifold for four corner cooling as well, and make sure it's only water with the additive that you're running, no antifreeze!!!! Besides being horrible to clean up if spilled, it actually doesn't cool as well as straight water.

[wazup]

Art if you put the lines in the block your not cooling the cylinder head but returning it right back to the pump. when you put the lines in the head it cools the head between the two exhaust valves were most of the heat is. As for bigger rad you will be fine with what you have. The radiator that you have is bigger than the one i had witch was only stock one row. I drove my car for around 25to30 miles stoping at red lights and only got up to 210 when i got to the track. I think if you try and restrict the flow down it will help, just remember most of the heat from the engine is from the top of the block and the cylinder heads. Check your fan and make sure it turning in the wright diraction. Hope this helps. One more thing put a 20lb cap on her it will help.

[chevyart]

thanks guys. ii will be doing alot of the things i was told to do bu you guys.. they all fit into my way of thinking.i must check the electric water pump(summit brand). any advice on how to check the flow of this pump. a thanks again art

[zipper06]

chevyart,
i run a 377, also filled to the water pump holes, but i run a stock water pump with an electric drive motor gilmer belt drive. I run a thermostat, but drill 6 1/8" holes around the outside of the stat, same as a restrictor maybe 1/2" to slow down the flow of the water. I've run gas and alcohol and haven't had any problems with overheating. I do run a 16 LB cap, also only water (antifreeze is a NO NO at any NHRA or IHRA track) I'm on alcohol now so actually i have trouble getting the temp up, never turning on the pump until i'm driving back to the pits. On gas i would run the pump once i was moving it the staging lanes and the run, still never went over 210*
Those electric water pumps move a lot of water and i think your question has already been answered with the restrictor to slow down the flow. I would also put a 16" shrouded electric fan on the radiator, sucking from the inside.
Don't know who built your short blk. but i also plug all the steam holes on the blk deck for strenght.
Don't know if this will work for you but it does for me.

Zip.

[chevyart]

thanks zip. my existing setup worked perfect with the 355(not hard blocked) i think the problem now is either the waterpump went bad(c ould have sworn last week i looked at the top of the radiator where i put the water in, had the electricwaterpump going and the water was not moving. i thought that strasnge and forgot about it and am now definitely thinlking about it. i will put the 20 lb cap in and a restrictor(which i had in the 355 engine and flow check the waterpump> my fan is a shrouded electric, which is on inside of engine compartment, sucking the air in. it did work fine with other engine. im going to start with the things i just mentioned and i am sure this will cure my problem. any other suggestion i will definitely listen to. PS the steam holes are covered over with solid head gasket and solid head area over steam holes. thaNKS ART

[roadkill2]

Check your water temp at the bottom radiator hose . . If it's not 140° or so, you're putting the water through the radiator too quick . . Put the restrictor back in . .

SBC Chevy Temps: @ the Thermostat housing 185-190°
@ the Sending unit on the Head (or Plug) 155°
@ the bottom of Radiator or hose 140°

And it don't matter whether it's a filled block, an aluminum one or the one in your Pickup . . it seems to work out the same . . .

[bubbaf100]

If yur not too worried about weight or if was a street car dual 3 core aluminum radiators on all stock 400 blocks some filled some not just ran a high volume water pump with restricter plate on a 110 degree day driving on the back raods for a few hours cruising at 120-130 mph it would climb to 160-170 dgrees.
With a 16 fan. Idle hot or not 175-180. But I'd do what skip said first.

[chevyart]

thanks guys. ill run those checks like you guys suggested. what is the best was(or tool) to check temp at the points that you mentioned. im embarassed to say i cant figure that one out. art

[zipper06]

thanks guys. ill run those checks like you guys suggested. what is the best was(or tool) to check temp at the points that you mentioned. im embarassed to say i cant figure that one out. art

Nothing to be embarressed about, i think he's talking about using an infrared thermometer. it's something we use all the time to check the exhaust header temperature on alcohol at idle if we don't have an EGT system.
Like the one pictured below on sale right now from harbor freight for $30.00, cheap but effective.

Zip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/zipper2/infraredthermometer.jpg

[roadkill2]

Zakly . . If you don't have one, get one . . If you're a serious drag racer you have one in your trailer and your crew chief/spotter has one in his hip pocket . . It's part of the data acquisition department. Track Temp, Tire Temp, Engine and Converter Temp when the car comes back from a round, etc . . And as Zipper said, use it to check your cylinders firing . . as well as EGT if the headers are exposed . .

[chevyart]

guys. im doing the changes you all talked about. here is something that may be a cause (or )effect) on this overheating. my spark plug electrodes are whiter than your teeth. way too lean. heres my plan for this and i need some jetting advice. im taking off the problem carb which was a worked 750(old style)it may have cosat me my last motor to blow, as it ran too lean and dropped valves. i have a new holley center section i added to a new 750 double pumper and i added the big accelerator pump and bigger squirters and jet extensions with notched bowls.. its strictly a race carb(no streetuse) so NO power valves. the jetting is 82 in the front and 84 in the back. i think this is close, but maybe will be on the lean side with these jets.. i know i can try it like it is, but i want it to be real close the first time and hope the carb and overheating problem is gone on the firsat pass. PS it has air bleeds in it for idle and top end but i did not touch them at all. thanks art

[fast75vega]

guys. im doing the changes you all talked about. here is something that may be a cause (or )effect) on this overheating. my spark plug electrodes are whiter than your teeth. way too lean. heres my plan for this and i need some jetting advice. im taking off the problem carb which was a worked 750(old style)it may have cosat me my last motor to blow, as it ran too lean and dropped valves. i have a new holley center section i added to a new 750 double pumper and i added the big accelerator pump and bigger squirters and jet extensions with notched bowls.. its strictly a race carb(no streetuse) so NO power valves. the jetting is 82 in the front and 84 in the back. i think this is close, but maybe will be on the lean side with these jets.. i know i can try it like it is, but i want it to be real close the first time and hope the carb and overheating problem is gone on the firsat pass. PS it has air bleeds in it for idle and top end but i did not touch them at all. thanks art

i had the same issue and asked the same questions... what i read and what the guys here said is that a 750 dbl pump with a front only PV comes factory with 73 frt and 84 rear. mine was at 71 front and 73 rear and ran hot and not rea good power....i jetted it to 73 frt and 82 rear and seems like big a difference

[chevyart]

thanks fast 75 vega. the carb i am taking off is just about what you described. im going with the new center section that brings the 750 up to about 820 cfms, so the jetting isquite a bit higher.. ps im from westchester county ny and run at lebanon valley dragway near albany ny. i run an all brown 67 nova with gold bumpers. i also have a nice 75 vega that i am completing with a 408 sbc and ford rear. do you belong to out h-body forum? if you have a vega you should definitely belong. if so give me a shout and i will tell you how to join for free. thanks for info art (chevy art) on h-body forum

[chevyart]

i had a restricter in the engine(its the 3/4 inch hol disc). i also have the smaller one (5/8 and have a 1 inch one. which one should i use, keepind in mind that the block is hard filled to waterpump hole, so it passes less water through its water jackets thanks art

[wazup]

Art try using the largest one. Fastvega is pretty much right on with the carb and with that start with what he said and work from there.

Have you found out if your water is flowing thru the rad.

[chevyart]

hey waz will put the 1 inch hole restrictor in today. am going to race on sunday and will hopefully have a change in temp with all the little). things i have changed.. with the 3/4 inch restrictor water comes out the top of the radiator cores and into the tank(by rad cap at a steady stream(hose like appearance) stream has about a 3/16-1/4 inch diameter. thiis makes me believe the water pump is working OK. any other suggestions i will try them. i took my carb off and checked the jets(its a 750 cfm carb) and it was real bad. the front jets were only 70s with a 6.5 power valve and 80s in rear with no PV. they are now 80 with NOpv in front and 84 with no pv in rear. this should definitely give a little brown color to the spark plugs. they were firing pearly white and probably helping the car to run hot(its an almost 600 HP 377 sbc). thanks for the help you all are giving me art

[wazup]

Good luck and as allways be safe.

[chevyart]

hey waz ran car with new 16 lb pressure cap and new , bigger jets, and i did not put the 1inch restrictor in as i want to do one thing at a time(like tuning, one at a time). car ran cooler up to takeoff and then at full throttle it went up to 240 and at end of track it came back down to 220 or so and i sat there and cooled it to 180 and drove back to the pits. by time i got back to my spot, it was up to 240(or more). im gonna put in new electridc fan that covers my whole radiator with lots of cfms. the fan in there now is about 3 inches short on each side of the radiator, so i know that fan is inadequate in both cfms and shroud size. still unsure of which way to go with the restrictor. 5/8s or the 1 incher. what is your suggestion. also the oil pressure at end of run, when car is real hot, drops to around 20 lbs until the car cools off and then shoots back up. doers that sound like a problem? i use valvoline 20-50 racing oil. what do you think of that. thanks for help. art

[wazup]

Art i wish i was there to help. What did the plugs look like. Im wondering if you might have a vacuum leak. The oil you are using is fine(i use the same) but if you keep running that hot i would change it, as for the oil pressure its only doing that because its to hot. I ran a oil temp gauge in the bottom of my oil pan and the oil temp would get up there(210-230) when driving it on the road. Do you have the trans lines running to the radiator or to a trans cooler. There is alot of thing that can make it run hot so one thing at a time is the best way, if what you change dont help change it back to the way you had it. Let me say this i have a bbc (not filled) that has 28"x17" alum rad i think, with two 10" fans (no shrouds) in front of the radiator pushing,no stat or restrictor with elc water pump (csr) and can drive it stop and go to car show about 5 miles and only runs around 160to170. You might need to move the time around with out killing your power, keep rejetting too, jetting and timing go hand and hand. One more thing try spaying some carb cleaner around the carb and intake gaskets and see if the engine changes. Maybe some of this will help. Sorry your have no luck but its got to be something simple.

You can call me at my shop 321-951-2247 Robert Price (Prices Auto Center)

[chevyart]

rob you probably hit the nail on the head about a vacum leak. car wont idle down low and when i put it low it shoots up and down.i have to idle it around 2000 to(maybe a tad lower) to drive it around pits and it definitely bumps hard into gear(powerglide)i never addresed that problem and i should have, right away. how does that make an engine overhear or make it have other bad affects? im putting a newer(bigger carb on. and i will look at the plugs from last sunday.. i iknow they werent quite brown enough last week, but i didnt want to go crazy with the jets. this carb has a new center section from proform. i had it on my old motor,(that blew up) and the car ran good with it, but i was more sure of the old carb for startup of newer motor. i will change the carb gaskets(i have a carb spacer on manifold) and squirt the running engine with (brakeparts cleaner?) or what other liguid would be ok to squirt on thers :rob, what made you think vacum leak in the first place? thanks art

[wazup]

Art when you say its still running hot and how fast it runs hot. I have been working on cars for 30 plus years. Its getting hot way to fast so from what your telling me that the plugs were pearl white is a lean condition and can be caused by many different things and a vacuum leak is one of them. Art if you can drive your car down the street as you change things it might help you better. The brake cleaner is fine to use just try and get the idle down as far as you can. Then spray it where the intake mates with the heads to see if there is a change in the engine.

[trmnatr]

one thing, now that you mention it is that that in place of a thermostat there should be a restrictor plate. there is none. there was one when i had the 355 in there and it just never made it back in with the engine swap.. it is a drag car only, 13-1 comp and big cam and big alum cylinder heard. what about me only having a 7lb pressure cap. some say it should be up in the 20s lb cap.its a small electric fan running off a relay and it did fine for the 5355(max 200 temp at the track) i have different restrictor. plates. how big of a center should should be on the plate. why the lines from water pump to the heads and not to holes in top(center) of block. why not run all 3 different cooling lines at once. thanks art

Engines filled with Hardblok don't run hot, the water pump can only pump water that's fed into the pump which is the water pump holes. So as you can see the hot water that would normally lay in the bottom of the water jackets that doesn't get cooled down, makes it run warmer.

With Hardblok your engine will take much larger to heat up and cool down much faster. Many people have cooling holes that don't line up with the head gaskets and this needs to be addressed. Bottom line is the Hardblok is not what is making it over heat

[trmnatr]

I would definately put a much higher pressure cap on there, the higher pressure raises the boiling point of the water quite a bit. As to a restrictor, I wouldn't, not really needed. Just make sure you have good flow of coolant. I don't run one at all in my dragster and never have. 600 inch chevy and if I'm at 100-110 at the staging lanes before the run, I'm around 180 by the time I'm back at my pit. One of the issues with yours is the block being filled. It reduces the cooling capacity of your whole system, and it will heat up faster. The best thing you can do at this point is put in the biggest radiator you can fit in the car. You need system capacity, and the block filler just took away about half of it. Additionally, you're making more power which means more heat. The larger the cooling system, the better it's able to deal with the heat.

So my best advice is the biggest and thickest (three or four core aluminum with the 1" wide core tubes) radiator you can get, good shroud and biggest fan you can get. Put either Redline water wetter or Royal Purple Purple Ice in the system as well, it helps. Tap the manifold for four corner cooling as well, and make sure it's only water with the additive that you're running, no antifreeze!!!! Besides being horrible to clean up if spilled, it actually doesn't cool as well as straight water.

Agree except on the Hardblok, we use it in every engine we build. The Hardblok doesn't make it run hotter. Go pull your water pump off, all the water below the water pump holes WON'T come out, the engine can't send this water to the radiator so putting Hardblok to the bottom of the water pump holes changes that problem

Now we have seen LOWER OIL TEMPS with Hardblok, further showing the info above.

Now with NO HARDBLOK IMO, a good design would have a 1/2" NPT on the side of the block where the plugs are to drain the coolant, that way the coolant below the water pump holes can exit the 1/2" NPT connected to the radiator for better cooling

We use A LOT of Hardblok and every engine has shown as I have posted, and about the thermostat. If you run a high volume water pump RUN A RESTRICTOR, if its a standard volume water pump don't run anything

[roadkill2]

A serious vacuum leak can (and will) build heat, simply because it's an uncontrollable lean condition. I didn't pay a lot of attention to what heads/intake is being run but one has to be careful anymore, due to the many varied head/intakle combos as well as port placement on the head. In some cases, only one gasket will fit and align correctly.

You also should check for misalignment of the head ports/intake runners. Some heads will only take an intake made specifically for them. Been there done that, too!

And, some gaskets are subject to "Edge soaking" and then leak. We coat just the edges (insides and out) of our intake gaskets with POR15, and seem to have negated this phenomenom.

Another contributor to the heating, if it is a vacuum leak, would be the oil consumption. Oil burns considerably hotter in the combustion chamber than does either gasoline or alcohol, and if your intake is leaking, chances are it's pulling air/oil vapor out of the cam galley. If that's the case, another giveaway (besides the inability to idle smoothly or at all) will be a fine coating of oil and burnt oil smudge inside the headers . . The oil vapor burns so completely that it's nearly impossible to see in daylight, so it's something that most people don't notice . .

On the "Hardblok" . . We ran a 468, and a 496 BBC, both with filled blocks, and then went to a 582 with open water jackets (Dart) and the temp has been the same. 160° out of the water, about 170° at the top light and 185° at the other end. Leave the pump and fan run while towing back and it'll be about 100° at the thermostat housing when we get to the trailer . . .

Just some things that crossed my mind on the subject.

[chevyart]

thanks trmnatr and roadkill 2. this problem is making me sick and i dont want to hurt my new engine. wazup has really been helpful along the way with his explanations and i am concerned with the whole hard blocked thing. you explained that the water does not move at all below the bottom of the water pump holes. above that line does the water circulate around the sides of the block, or is there no water movement in sides of the block. at all? my engine has holes drilled and tapped to accept a #6an fitting on each side in aprox center of engine , right above the hard block material. (its a 400 block). i guess the holes were drilled either to drain water or possibly circulate water to this area by tapping the sides of the waterpump and pumping cool water over to the area above the hard block all along the sides of the block.. my manifold does not have bungs in the rear to send lines from front to rear of intake, and there are no tapped holes in the heads to accept lines from either waterpump or lines from thermostat housing area i am.thinking strongly about running the lines from waterpump to holes tapped in block as i explained above. is this a waste of time? also, how do i know if my waterpump is performing.. PS biggest thing i dont understand is the car shoots up to 240 during pass and as soon as i let off the gas it goes back pretty quickly to the 200-210 range. cools down to 180 in 5 minutes(i stop and run waterpump and fan) and is back up to 240-250 by the time i arrive in the pits. does this sound like a radiator problem or waterpump problem thanks art

[zipper06]

fill the radiator up, then pull the top hose off at the radiator, then put a bucket under the hose anf turn the pump on. it will pump until the water gets below the water pump. This should tell you if the water is moving pretty good or the pump is weak.

JMO

Zip.

[chevyart]

thanks zip. i will try that method tomorrow. its a summit electric water pump and it worked fine along with all the other cooling parts when i had the 355 smalll block in there and it was not filled.. thats what is throwing me off so much. the other engine ran at about 195 on the hotest day. my radiator is the next thing to check. its a 69 camaro big block radiator and the fan is an electric one with a plastic shroud. i dont know the cfms, but this setup seems to cool down the engine after a run pretty quickly, but it also get real hot again before i get back to my spot in the pits(240). thanks art

[roadkill2]

PS biggest thing i dont understand is the car shoots up to 240 during pass and as soon as i let off the gas it goes back pretty quickly to the 200-210 range. cools down to 180 in 5 minutes(i stop and run waterpump and fan) and is back up to 240-250 by the time i arrive in the pits. does this sound like a radiator problem or waterpump problem thanks art

You're apparently really lean. Fatten the damned thing up until it blubbers and drive it the same distance you have to go on the return road . . if the temp stays down, there's your problem . . If it doesn't (again) Check the temp of the bottom radiator hose. If it's over 145° the water's going through the radiator too fast . .

The 496 we were running was full of hardblok to within about an inch of the deck. The back water transfer holes don't exist on a Dart manifold. As I said before, there was no heating issue at all . . and while we tow the car back, it isn't about engine heat, never had a problem when we drove it back, but we tow to keep the converter temp down and it's a lot easier to cool off (the converter) if it gets back to the trailer at about 180° or a little less . . And as I said above, generally, when the car gets back, the Thermostat housing is about 100° . . Can't ask for anything better than that . . And the 582 behaves almost exactly the same way although it's got a unfilled water jacket . .

[trmnatr]

thanks trmnatr and roadkill 2. this problem is making me sick and i dont want to hurt my new engine. wazup has really been helpful along the way with his explanations and i am concerned with the whole hard blocked thing. you explained that the water does not move at all below the bottom of the water pump holes. above that line does the water circulate around the sides of the block, or is there no water movement in sides of the block. at all? my engine has holes drilled and tapped to accept a #6an fitting on each side in aprox center of engine , right above the hard block material. (its a 400 block). i guess the holes were drilled either to drain water or possibly circulate water to this area by tapping the sides of the waterpump and pumping cool water over to the area above the hard block all along the sides of the block.. my manifold does not have bungs in the rear to send lines from front to rear of intake, and there are no tapped holes in the heads to accept lines from either waterpump or lines from thermostat housing area i am.thinking strongly about running the lines from waterpump to holes tapped in block as i explained above. is this a waste of time? also, how do i know if my waterpump is performing.. PS biggest thing i dont understand is the car shoots up to 240 during pass and as soon as i let off the gas it goes back pretty quickly to the 200-210 range. cools down to 180 in 5 minutes(i stop and run waterpump and fan) and is back up to 240-250 by the time i arrive in the pits. does this sound like a radiator problem or waterpump problem thanks art

What is your radiator caps pressure rating and is it holding pressure? (You can check it with a Stant radiator pump)

[chevyart]

thanks trmantr. i only had a 7 lb cap on there first time out and i was told to get a higher pessure cap, which i did. its a brand new 16 lb pressure cap and it has the pressure relief valve on it. do you think this cap has enough pressure for my setup. PS no one has commented on my idea to run the 2 hoses from water pump to the sides of my engine block, just above the hard block material. wont this help cooling and circulation? thanks again art

[wrightway]

fill the radiator up, then pull the top hose off at the radiator, then put a bucket under the hose anf turn the pump on. it will pump until the water gets below the water pump. This should tell you if the water is moving pretty good or the pump is weak.

JMO

Zip.

X2

[wrightway]

car wont idle down low and when i put it low it shoots up and down.i have to idle it around 2000 to(maybe a tad lower) to drive it around pits and it definitely bumps hard into gear(powerglide)i never addresed that problem and i should have, right away. how does that make an engine overhear or make it have other bad affects? im putting a newer(bigger carb on. and i will look at the plugs from last sunday.. i iknow they werent quite brown enough last week, but i didnt want to go crazy with the jets. this carb has a new center section from proform. i had it on my old motor,(that blew up) and the car ran good with it, but i was more sure of the old carb for startup of newer motor. i will change the carb gasket

Can you borrow a well sorted out carb from someone?
Maybe it just me but i would never run a carb down the track that i can't get to idle correctly.

[zipper06]

You're right i never noticed about the high idle, i've never had an engine that wouldn't idle a 1,000 RPM's or less, my 377 idles at 800 or less, the 482 i was tuning a few weeks ago with atacks injection idles at 800 RPM's and that with a .743 lift cam.
:?: have you syncronized the butterflys on this carb that you are running, if you don't have a vacuum leak then it could very well be that you have some butterflys not closing all the way. It happens a lot if you're running a tunnel ram and 2 4 barrels, but i realine you're running a single 4 barrel.
Even my 1471 with buzzard catcher 360" blown alcohol sm/blk idles about a 1,000 RPM's with a lope down too 500 RPM's, but that's the way i tune it. It gets attention like the old funny cars when it lopes up to the starting line like a frog moving forward. I got a vid somewhere if i can find it.

Zip.

I found it. Sound UP

Here's motor right after adjusting the valves, there is some oil on the right header. i'm behind the camera.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3005024568453485455&hl=en#

[wazup]

Zip just got to love them blowers. What kinda car is that a vega.

I have been waiting on some of you guys to jump in and try and help Art, just to many things with out being there to look at it.

[wrightway]

Art does the car get faster as the day gets hotter? That's a sure sing of being lean.
Also are you sure the correct base plate gaskit was used when you installed the proform center? Have heard that problem more than once.

[zipper06]

Zip just got to love them blowers. What kinda car is that a vega.

I have been waiting on some of you guys to jump in and try and help Art, just to many things with out being there to look at it.

No Robert, it's in my friends very ugly 1963 Dodge Dart. When i built the engine i already had my 377" in my Malibu, so i just want to try the motor out and he had his motor out so that's how that happened. It ran pretty good until i cracked a cylinder and the block was filled all the way to the deck, but then i was running 30% OD and pushing 40 PSI of boost with a good Littlefield blower. I still have the whole setup but need a good Dart blk to put it back together as a 383 with alum rods.

Zip.

[chevyart]

thanks again guys.. hey rughtway. the answer is yes about the car going faster as the day goes on and it is hotter, and the engines is retaining more heat. (it goes about a tenth or a little more faster.) one thing i did notice is that before i changed the jets when carb was real, real lean, was that the response was extremely fast when i hit the gas and is was very very crisp, and would go to 5,000 in a FLASH. AFTER I FATTENED THE SAME CARB UP TO WHERE IT IS NOW (AND ITS PROBABLY STILL TOO LEAN) THE RESPONSE WAS not as crispy and it jumped up only to around 4500 rpms with the same little hit on the throttle. another thing is that through ETs from 11.5 to 11.1 the mph was always 119. the car would not launch hard at all. it came out straight and has new slicks and didnt spin, just seemed no to have good power. I am putting on the bigger carb today(aprox 800-820 cfms) and i have the jetting at 84-84 and no power valves. quick fuel said that is where i should start at for the track. i want to thank all you guys for showing a nice interest with the problems i have. its really been an education about reading the plugs and learning what lean out conditions do and how they can reallly badly affect alot of things on the engine..im not there yet but i will definitely keep all of you informed as i go along. i will check and alter every little thing that you all have suggested.. Anyone yet about me running lines from water pump to sides of block above the hard block. i want to do this so badly that i can taste it. thanks art

[wrightway]

Anyone yet about me running lines from water pump to sides of block above the hard block. i want to do this so badly that i can taste it. thanks art


i think you need to find the root of the problem first.
My unprofessional opinion is those ports don't cool more or faster but will evenout the cylinder head temps as the center cylinders run hotter.

[wazup]

Anyone yet about me running lines from water pump to sides of block above the hard block. i want to do this so badly that i can taste it. thanks art


i think you need to find the root of the problem first.
My unprofessional opinion is those ports don't cool more or faster but will evenout the cylinder head temps as the center cylinders run hotter.

I told Art that i ran lines from the center(by the head gasket) of the heads(not the block) to the water pump to keep the head cooler as we were running nitrous. This helps as the two exhaust valves are together wright there and helps from blowing the head gasket between the cylinders. Running the lines in the block is going to do nothing as it is below the head gasket,you want to cool it at the two exhaust ports.

[wazup]

Zip just got to love them blowers. What kinda car is that a vega.

I have been waiting on some of you guys to jump in and try and help Art, just to many things with out being there to look at it.

No Robert, it's in my friends very ugly 1963 Dodge Dart. When i built the engine i already had my 377" in my Malibu, so i just want to try the motor out and he had his motor out so that's how that happened. It ran pretty good until i cracked a cylinder and the block was filled all the way to the deck, but then i was running 30% OD and pushing 40 PSI of boost with a good Littlefield blower. I still have the whole setup but need a good Dart blk to put it back together as a 383 with alum rods.

Zip.

I have allways loved that idle as it goes up and down and lunges. Thats alot of presure for a stock block. I know that the stock blocks are not very thick and rough on cylinder walls. I had tree different blocks all #4 cylinder crack never found out way but after that i would poor all my blocks up to the water pump holes. If i here of anyone around here with a block for sale i will give you a call.

[zipper06]

Zip just got to love them blowers. What kinda car is that a vega.

I have been waiting on some of you guys to jump in and try and help Art, just to many things with out being there to look at it.

No Robert, it's in my friends very ugly 1963 Dodge Dart. When i built the engine i already had my 377" in my Malibu, so i just want to try the motor out and he had his motor out so that's how that happened. It ran pretty good until i cracked a cylinder and the block was filled all the way to the deck, but then i was running 30% OD and pushing 40 PSI of boost with a good Littlefield blower. I still have the whole setup but need a good Dart blk to put it back together as a 383 with alum rods.

Zip.

I have allways loved that idle as it goes up and down and lunges. Thats alot of presure for a stock block. I know that the stock blocks are not very thick and rough on cylinder walls. I had tree different blocks all #4 cylinder crack never found out way but after that i would poor all my blocks up to the water pump holes. If i here of anyone around here with a block for sale i will give you a call.

The blk was setup as good as could be done with a stock blk, splayed steel main caps hi nickle 010 blk, O'ringed and reciever grooves in the heads. It was the #8 cylinder on the outside cracked down from top about 1" down, just enough to burn down the top ring land on the piston. I think it was probably a casting flaw maybe a sand pocket in the block. it wasn't exrayed before assy. I learned my lesson on stock blks with blowers.
It did run 4.62 on a short track (620 ft lg)

Zip.

Zip.

[wazup]

Zip, what head gaskets do you use with your blower motors, with todays engines.

[zipper06]

I was using .043 soft copper on that engine, but i no longer O'ring the blk or put reciever grooves in the heads.
I now use the ICS copper with the embedded stainless O'rings, They were using them on twin turbo engines, pushing big boost so i figured they would hold a blower motor as well. I haven't had any trouble yet and they are around $200.00 a set, much cheaper than O'ringing and recieaver grooves. i know the top fuel and top alcohol cars are still o'ringing but they are pushing 60 lbs boost with the screw type blowers, my blower is 1471 roots, built by mert Littlefield (RIP) i had known Mert since the mid 80's, when i had a 540" blown Rodek engine.

Zip.

[outlaw256]

zip, did i ever tell you you are my hero!!!lol

[zipper06]

zip, did i ever tell you you are my hero!!!lol

Outlaw, i shouldn't be a hero, Racing has been in my life since i was 16 yrs. old, and i still love it today.
On another note, i may have the opertunity to meet you within the next yr. my sister sold her house in Owen-X-Roads, but bought an acre lot on top of Lookout mountain, and is now having a cabin built on it. The guy is only doing the shell,flooring, and house wrap on the outside. We're comming over there Thanksgiving so i can do the siding and box the eves, so i'll be traveling over there thruout the next yr. doing the inside. i've said it before but almost all of my relatives are buried over there. So one of these days i'll get your Ph# and give you buzz when i'm in your neck of the woods and stop by.( if you'll let a Lexas pull in your driveway :lol: ) I'd love to see your toys.
O'h by the way the guy that's doing the framing of the cabin is also a drag racer, he lives on Lookout mountain, but the bad is he runs Mopars :lol:

Zip.

[TheYellaBrick]

You are RIGHT , Mopars are BAD !!!

Lexus ? Ken will make you park out by the mailbox and hike in ! :D

[Scooterz]

Let me just stick up for Zip on his Lexus for a second....

The guy rebuilt the front-end for a couple hundred bucks!!! Can you imagine if parked at the Lexus garage to be done by them??? OMG- it would have been a 2nd mortgage on the house to fund that one.

Zip stuck it to the man on that repair. I think he should be able to park anywhere. LOL!!