Tranny Feedback

[bjuice]

Well to make a long story Short I tore 1st,2nd and 3rd gear out of my 73 camaro Thanksgiving day showing my a$$..thank goodness I had 4th gear to get home.....the only thing I felt good about it is I think the tranny had a little something wrong with it anyhow cause it would come out of 3rd gear around 4500rpm

ok here is what I am kicking around..I have always been the type of Guy to be different with the Rides I have.. I have a chance at a great deal on a Richmond 6 speed !!!!!..about a $3500 tranny for the cost of a Richmond 4 speed ?....but here is my delima...the tranny is 3.28-2.14-1.57-1.24-1.00-.76(OD).....With the 373 gears it will be like a granny tractor in 1st gear..so I would almost be forced to change my rear gear ( Maybe a 3.08 ?) then I must buy another shifter and minor floor fabrication because this tranny sits about 2 inches further backward then the 4 speed...thats really No biggie since there is no console in the car.

Now I have aired out my Cons......What are some thoughts on this idea ?

you guys see many 6 speed straight drives in 2nd generation camaro's ?

does the pro's outweigh the cons on this deal ?

[Harbone]

Go here and become a member, everything you need to know about 2ng gen Camaro's

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/index.php

Now from what I have read you will need a bellhousing, hydraulic clutch setup, crossmember, driveshaft and I think you might have to change the pinion angle just a hair. All the guys over there love their 5 and 6 speed converted Camaro's.
If mine ever blows I will step up!

[bjuice]

Go here and become a member, everything you need to know about 2ng gen Camaro's

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/index.php

Now from what I have read you will need a bellhousing, hydraulic clutch setup, crossmember, driveshaft and I think you might have to change the pinion angle just a hair. All the guys over there love their 5 and 6 speed converted Camaro's.
If mine ever blows I will step up!


daaaaaayyymm that puts it in a different shade of light for sure...wow !

[Harbone]

Its not a cheap conversion but if you are buying the tranny cheap it will be worth the investment

[zipper06]

Throw away the Muncie and put a iron case T10 in it and be done with it and more original. The Muncies were notorous for shelling gears, even in the day, due to case flex.

JMO

Zip.

[bixblk]

Not sure if this helps, but I put a mid 80's richmond 5 speed (T5) in my 70 chevelle BBC car,about 5 years ago, it came with a shifter, and it was a fine spline so it went into my clutch, pressure plate set up w/o any mods but the cross member did not line up and I fab'ed a mount and put a little bigger hole in the floor, cannot remember about length of the trans and if I had to do any with the drive shaft
I also think that these trans are not as robust as I would like but I do not beat on the car at all so it has lasted so far.
I paid 275 for the T5, shifter and and attached bell housing
Hope this helps

[Scorpion1110]

Zip:

You are right about Muncie flex. However the aftermarket makes a cast iron midplate that reduces it significantly- at least the ones I have thrown together for guys seem to be OK.

I put them together on the side for guys and use the cast iron midplate, the bigger front bearing, grooved bushing on number 1, and torq lock sliders as upgrades. I have a friend thrashing one right now in a high horse 65 Chevelle.

Also if you are worried about leakage where the countershaft exits the front of the case, it can be bushed there (though I use a little permatex hi-tack and it cleans up any bit of slop in the press-fit)

B, if you decide to keep the Muncie, I can rebuild it for you with the upgrades pretty reasonably- Just a fall back if you dont do the 5-6 speed upgrade.

S

[bjuice]

Zip:

You are right about Muncie flex. However the aftermarket makes a cast iron midplate that reduces it significantly- at least the ones I have thrown together for guys seem to be OK.

I put them together on the side for guys and use the cast iron midplate, the bigger front bearing, grooved bushing on number 1, and torq lock sliders as upgrades. I have a friend thrashing one right now in a high horse 65 Chevelle.

Also if you are worried about leakage where the countershaft exits the front of the case, it can be bushed there (though I use a little permatex hi-tack and it cleans up any bit of slop in the press-fit)

B, if you decide to keep the Muncie, I can rebuild it for you with the upgrades pretty reasonably- Just a fall back if you dont do the 5-6 speed upgrade.

S

thanks scorp this week I plan to dial in a little closer to what I want to do..my concern is that I am hard on banging gears..I cannot stand it ( :D

I think what helped bomb this last one is that I put two friend in the back seat (more weight)...got on a deserted Stretch of PRIVATE road....dumped the clutch at 6,000 rpm, banged 2nd crosssed it up ( with a Big smile I might add) was just about to get the car straight (petal still matted I might ad) and reached to grab 3rd gear and KA-BOOM,,It sounded like I was dragging the shifter levers on the asphalt under the car,,but it was actual metal tumbling in the case.

( .. DISCLAIMER -Kids dont try this at Home...I was on a shut down Airforce base, No cars,tree's or ditches ...Zip you do remember Donaldson Center AFB just up the road from Starlight Dragstrip don't you ?)

[MEMRACING62]

AND THIS IS WHY ALL MY CARS GET SLUSH BOXES!! :P

[Harbone]

AND THIS IS WHY ALL MY CARS GET SLUSH BOXES!! :P

YES!!!!!!!!


The T-10 is a much simplier conversion. If your clutch isnt fine spline just put a new one in and if I remember you have to change the front driveshaft yoke to a turbo 400 style? I did it about 15 years ago on my 68 Camaro.

[zipper06]

Zip:

You are right about Muncie flex. However the aftermarket makes a cast iron midplate that reduces it significantly- at least the ones I have thrown together for guys seem to be OK.

I put them together on the side for guys and use the cast iron midplate, the bigger front bearing, grooved bushing on number 1, and torq lock sliders as upgrades. I have a friend thrashing one right now in a high horse 65 Chevelle.

Also if you are worried about leakage where the countershaft exits the front of the case, it can be bushed there (though I use a little permatex hi-tack and it cleans up any bit of slop in the press-fit)

B, if you decide to keep the Muncie, I can rebuild it for you with the upgrades pretty reasonably- Just a fall back if you dont do the 5-6 speed upgrade.

S

thanks scorp this week I plan to dial in a little closer to what I want to do..my concern is that I am hard on banging gears..I cannot stand it ( :D

I think what helped bomb this last one is that I put two friend in the back seat (more weight)...got on a deserted Stretch of PRIVATE road....dumped the clutch at 6,000 rpm, banged 2nd crosssed it up ( with a Big smile I might add) was just about to get the car straight (petal still matted I might ad) and reached to grab 3rd gear and KA-BOOM,,It sounded like I was dragging the shifter levers on the asphalt under the car,,but it was actual metal tumbling in the case.

( .. DISCLAIMER -Kids dont try this at Home...I was on a shut down Airforce base, No cars,tree's or ditches ...Zip you do remember Donaldson Center AFB just up the road from Starlight Dragstrip don't you ?)

Yep i remember the AFB :lol: Would've made a better dragstrip than Starlite dragway.
When i moved to Anderson in 1968, i brought with me 3 or 4 boxes of Muncie,T10's and Ford top loader gears and parts. I had aquired them from an asphalt rounde,round team that shut down. I sold Gene Cromer abut $500.00 worth of ford top loader parts. I haven't built a 4 speed box in 40 yrs. but i do recall the problems with the mucies. They didn't have the cast iron midplates available in those days, i used to remove alternate 2 teeth on the sliders and mating teeth on the gears, never used a clutch to shift. My first cousins husband had a 64 Biscyne with a 409/425HP that used to go thru a trans every month or so. He had a gas station in Anderson when i moved there. He later ran a towing service and garage, until his death by cancer about 5 yrs. ago You may know the name (last name Sturgil) my first cousin and daugher still live there and her sister also with daugher and kids. I hadn't seen them in 25 yrs until i attend their mothers funeral a couple yrs ago in Ala.They are 1 yr older and 1 yr younger than me. I still plan to come back there before i croak.

Zip.

[gearhead1011]

AND THIS IS WHY ALL MY CARS GET SLUSH BOXES!! :P

YAWN....
Sorry I just can't do that, I will bang gears as long as I can, then when I can't I'll just go sit in a rocking chair on the porch and knit. There's nothing like dumping a clutch and grabbing gears.

Check this out
http://www.grid1.tv/videos/featured/umtr-stick-shift-open

Brian you can go here http://www.umtrnorth.com/forums You will have to sign up to view the forums but there is more stick car info in this one place than you will find anywhere else. You can check out Don Pearson there (username elcamino) he builds the a bunch of t10s that these guys are using reliably with slicks.

Clutch technology has really evolved over the years and that's the key to manual transmission longevity.

[MEMRACING62]

AND THIS IS WHY ALL MY CARS GET SLUSH BOXES!! :P

There's nothing like dumping a clutch and grabbing gears.

AND PICKING UP BROKEN GEARS DRIVESHAFTS & RING GEARS OUT OF THE STREET.... :P :lol:

[outlaw256]

myn old 55 chevy used to blow out 4 speeds on a monthly basis.when i finally sold her it had a whine to it that was saying goodbye. moving from tn to al. about that time i didnt know where to pick up any parts or trans. so i sold it.i quit building drag cars and started building street cars again. lot more fun and cheaper.i started running 350s and 400s with manual valve bodies. lots of fun and no clutch.now that my left leg dont bend i want to build another 4 speed car. lol go fiqure.

[qtrmile2]

Brian,
It just depends on what your gunna do with the car. If you keep it streetable then the 6 speed would be great but I'm not sure you can power shift it like the old muncies and T10.
The sixth gear overdrive is nice to have. You can run 410 or beter with that deal.
Now if you don't mind not being able to down shift you can't beat the Jerico 4 speed for $3500.00 with linkage but you'll have to cut the heck out the tunnel.
I just sold a Richmond 5 speed that I had face plated for $3000.00 with linkage but again can't down shift.
Tim ran 9.70's with a factory 6 speed in his Camaro. He had to do some mods on it but you could down shift and have overdrive too. It was good enough to run 9's and still drive on the street.
Long story short you have a ton of options just depends how much you'll be driving it on the street. No matter what you do you will have a ball doing it with a stick car. It's best to spend the money up front and do it right the first time. Otherwise you will be great at rebuilding muncie's and T10's.
Give me a call if you need help.

[Tod74]

AND THIS IS WHY ALL MY CARS GET SLUSH BOXES!! :P

There's nothing like dumping a clutch and grabbing gears.

AND PICKING UP BROKEN GEARS DRIVESHAFTS & RING GEARS OUT OF THE STREET.... :P :lol:

My electric shifter quit working once and I was all screwed up...forgot to shift and hit the rev limiter...no way could I SHIFT 3 TIMES without destroying things.

My Chevelle however is a 4 speed but it's just a driver

[bjuice]

Well the 6th speed conversion is about done !!!...Whew if I would have known..well I sort of did thanks to Cris but you know talking about it and doing it is another story...bottom line it was a great deal of work..

IF You got time to read this please feel free to do so..its sort of long
here it is...got old tranny out ( muncie 4 speed) it was grenaded !

The Bellhousing was cracked, I did not see the crack until I got to washing it real good so I had to find a replacement and lucked out and found a 55 chevy bell housing that worked nicely and very thick..
The clutch was an older center force and I replaced it with a New RAM, I had the plate resurfaced..
Next I had to cut a little more away on the trans tunnel for the 6 speed tranny, and also had to fabricate another tranny cross member.
then I had to shorten the Drive shaft like 1.5 inches and had it rebalanced.

then I took the rearend apart to change the gear and I found that someone had put a axle in about 1 inch shorter and destroyed the seals.I had to get a guy to hit the axle to give me enough play for a brief second to get the clip off it. So I reordered the correct alxe and seals..I also went back with a 3.08 gear due to the ratio of 1st,2nd,3rd on the 6th speed tranny..So I got all this back together and low and behold My exhaust with the cross over pipe would not fit because the way it was run on the factory cross member..So I am currently taking it to the muffler shop to have it re-routed...

I also went back with another six speed shifter..

Man this sounded a lot easier talking about it then doing it but it should be plenty of fun...plus I am very partial to the 70 to 73 year model camaro's I drove this type car to high school....this one will be around for a long time to come..

My Next project I am going to take off the carb and have it sent to APD and have them convert it over to E-85..All I have to do is upgrade my fuel system to a after market Holley or something like that,,.I have two of them in the shop....Hey E-85 is Cheap Horse power and a lot of Torque much like alcohol and it also makes an engine run cool a lot like alcohol. here in South Carolina the edge of running cooler fuel is a Big help with temp staying over 100 degree's for days on end in the summer

I run E-85 in my family car and even in a stock V-6 chevy Impala you can tell the power difference in the car from gas...I have a Friend close by that has a chassis dyno and I just might run the car with with and without the e-85 and see what kind of HP and TQ increase the E-85 gives.

Sorry such a long post just wanted to share whats been going on with the 73 Z.

How about you Harbone ? what have you done so far on yours ?

[Harbone]

pictures or it didnt happen!

:lol:

I warned you but it sounds like that wasnt all your problems. I gutted the interior on my car, go here http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=17712

[bjuice]

pictures or it didnt happen!

:lol:

I warned you but it sounds like that wasnt all your problems. I gutted the interior on my car, go here http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=17712

Hey Bone been busy the last few days tying up loose ends on this project and some other things..I should have Back from Muffler shop Saturday or 1st part of next week and will take some Pics..this New I-Phone I got will not let me up-load the pics from my computer to Photobucket...so I may need to shoot you a few Pics on the cell phone and let you post for me if you would help me out..or maybe I could get Rabbit he and I text back and forth.. 6 speed looks mean Sitting in there..can't wait to test Drive her !!!!!!!

[lively]

SWEEEEEEET-- I LIKE GOOD FABRICATION !! :lol:

PICTURES FOR SURE 8)

[bjuice]

SWEEEEEEET-- I LIKE GOOD FABRICATION !! :lol:

PICTURES FOR SURE 8)

How ya Doing My friend !

[lively]

STILL HEALING UP---JUST TAKING 11 MONTHS LONGER THEN PLANNED :oops:

LIFE CAN BE STRANGE AT TIMES ,BRIAN 8)

BUT--I AIN'T A GIVEN UP :shock: :wink:

[Harbone]

OK Brain sent me pics to post so it must have happened, here you go...

http://s3.racingjunk.com/ui/0/74/24797740-239.jpg

http://s3.racingjunk.com/ui/3/74/24797743-825.jpg

now lets see some of the rest of the car! :D

[TheYellaBrick]

It outa be FUN stirrin' the stick on THAT !

:D :D :D

[Harbone]

Did you have to hammer on the trans hump anywhere to make room for the new tranny?

[bjuice]

Did you have to hammer on the trans hump anywhere to make room for the new tranny?
Sorry been having to do this by cell phone. NO cris not as much as I thought I wass going to
It had to be masssged a little but no,beating,bangin or major cutting.I did run in
Problems where my exhaust at the crossover section.. I also got problems with my igniy. Switch turming all the way back. it turns back just far enough to kill power bjt needs ankotger half turn backward to be right. ANY IDEAS? how to fix f
This ?

[Harbone]

I think there are "ears" on the back of the cylinder that engage the ignition switch. It probably broke one of them off or the plastic piece on the switch itself is broken.

[qtrmile2]

You'll love it Brian. Pics look good. Now get ready to break stuff :lol:
Just kidding.