View Full Version : street stock running hot?
MCdirt1
08-25-2010, 05:27 PM
I have a dirt car with a .060" over 350, 450 cam, after about ten minutes the temp is pushing 200 deg. new motor,new tripple pass radiator, custom fan box, 30% reduction pulleies. Timming 4 deg. advanced Can anyone help me cool this thing down?
mopar1968
08-25-2010, 06:50 PM
Are you running a restrictor in thermostat housing?
I have a dirt car with a .060" over 350, 450 cam, after about ten minutes the temp is pushing 200 deg. new motor,new tripple pass radiator, custom fan box, 30% reduction pulleies. Timming 4 deg. advanced Can anyone help me cool this thing down?
4 degrees advanced that must be numb and should runn cool with no timing.
MCdirt1
08-26-2010, 09:19 AM
Are you running a restrictor in thermostat housing?
I have the restrciter in at the thermo. housing.
MCdirt1
08-26-2010, 09:25 AM
I have a dirt car with a .060" over 350, 450 cam, after about ten minutes the temp is pushing 200 deg. new motor,new tripple pass radiator, custom fan box, 30% reduction pulleies. Timming 4 deg. advanced Can anyone help me cool this thing down?
4 degrees advanced that must be numb and should runn cool with no timing.
I tried to retard with the distr. but that didn't help any, maybe go back in and set the timing to dead zero? This motor runs great, awesome power just runs too hot.
blowninjected540
08-26-2010, 12:52 PM
I seen this before. Ended up being the wrong head gaskets.
kwkracing
08-26-2010, 01:06 PM
you seem to have another issue here with incorrect timing or you dont know what u are setting it at. A performance sbc will not run at zero or 4 degrees base timing. Do your headers glow orange when you run the car at night?
MCdirt1
08-26-2010, 07:05 PM
you seem to have another issue here with incorrect timing or you dont know what u are setting it at. A performance sbc will not run at zero or 4 degrees base timing. Do your headers glow orange when you run the car at night?
No they don't glow, the cam I have (Erson 453 lift) was matched to the build of the engine by a local speed shop and Erson said to set the timing 4 degrees +. I have a timing tab that gives a 4 degrees advanced tab, at 1000 rpm I show dead 4+ with a timing light. Am I missing something with this?
MCdirt1
08-26-2010, 07:24 PM
I seen this before. Ended up being the wrong head gaskets.
I made sure to check the gaskets during the build, I have been through that before as well, also with intake gaskets. I have even went as far as to run 40 below water treatment (two bottles) no sign of change. I am thinking possible flow issue, Heads were rebuilt by a performance shop.
Tod74
08-26-2010, 07:31 PM
what is your total advance? Did you varify TDC on your pointer (with a degree wheel)when you put it together? I bet that thing gets in it's own way coming out of the corner...
MCdirt1
08-26-2010, 07:31 PM
I seen this before. Ended up being the wrong head gaskets.
I made sure to check the gaskets during the build, I have been through that before as well, also with intake gaskets. I have even went as far as to run 40 below water treatment (two bottles) no sign of change. I am thinking possible flow issue, Heads were rebuilt by a performance shop. Also for what it is worth, I have all new gauges and run a seperate temp. light that (New) that comes on at 240 degrees.
zipper06
08-26-2010, 07:36 PM
you seem to have another issue here with incorrect timing or you dont know what u are setting it at. A performance sbc will not run at zero or 4 degrees base timing. Do your headers glow orange when you run the car at night?
No they don't glow, the cam I have (Erson 453 lift) was matched to the build of the engine by a local speed shop and Erson said to set the timing 4 degrees +. I have a timing tab that gives a 4 degrees advanced tab, at 1000 rpm I show dead 4+ with a timing light. Am I missing something with this?
If Erson said set timing at 4* they probably meant to install at 4* advance, not the running timing on the harmonic balancer. i've never seen a cam company tell you what to set the engine timing to. I would get or borrow a timing light with the ajustable timing control, and bring the rpm's up to about 3,000 rpms and set the timing to 36/38 degrees total timing.
As Todd says total timing not idle timing.
JMO
Zip.
MCdirt1
08-26-2010, 07:45 PM
what is your total advance? Did you varify TDC on your pointer (with a degree wheel)when you put it together? I bet that thing gets in it's own way coming out of the corner...
I called myself doing so, that is why I am so stumped here I have built bigger engines in the past with out this issue (20 years ago). yeah i have only run about six maybe seven laps on a 3/8's mile high bank track, but with that it has total hard pull coming out until you go back in, no flat spot what so ever. I have had to run in a class above mine with much more motor and car set up, had no trouble staying up with the lead cars until temp hit 250 and still climbing and I came in to cool down.
MCdirt1
08-26-2010, 07:54 PM
you seem to have another issue here with incorrect timing or you dont know what u are setting it at. A performance sbc will not run at zero or 4 degrees base timing. Do your headers glow orange when you run the car at night?
No they don't glow, the cam I have (Erson 453 lift) was matched to the build of the engine by a local speed shop and Erson said to set the timing 4 degrees +. I have a timing tab that gives a 4 degrees advanced tab, at 1000 rpm I show dead 4+ with a timing light. Am I missing something with this?
If Erson said set timing at 4* they probably meant to install at 4* advance, not the running timing on the harmonic balancer. i've never seen a cam company tell you what to set the engine timing to. I would get or borrow a timing light with the ajustable timing control, and bring the rpm's up to about 3,000 rpms and set the timing to 36/38 degrees total timing.
As Todd says total timing not idle timing.
JMO
Zip. Thanks for the great info. I will try this and see what happens, I know a couple of other racers that run late models and set very similar, didn't think about it until you mentioned it.
cepx111
08-26-2010, 09:15 PM
you seem to have another issue here with incorrect timing or you dont know what u are setting it at. A performance sbc will not run at zero or 4 degrees base timing. Do your headers glow orange when you run the car at night?
No they don't glow, the cam I have (Erson 453 lift) was matched to the build of the engine by a local speed shop and Erson said to set the timing 4 degrees +. I have a timing tab that gives a 4 degrees advanced tab, at 1000 rpm I show dead 4+ with a timing light. Am I missing something with this?
If Erson said set timing at 4* they probably meant to install at 4* advance, not the running timing on the harmonic balancer. i've never seen a cam company tell you what to set the engine timing to. I would get or borrow a timing light with the ajustable timing control, and bring the rpm's up to about 3,000 rpms and set the timing to 36/38 degrees total timing.
As Todd says total timing not idle timing.
JMO
Zip. Thats what I was thinking John, +4 on the cam, not initial timing.......
Add more timing to it, at least 10 BTDC for starters, then if she still runs warm jet up on the carb about 2 sizes square, a lean carb will warm things up with a quickness, that coupled with a slightly re-tarded motor ( no offense) is a recipe for one hot tamale.....
Goodluck>Cp
On a circle track engine who care what the initial timing is you need to know what your total timing is and set your timing at the RPM where you dist. stops advancing,
Setting your timing at 3000 could burn your engine up if your engine has to be at 3800 Per say to acheive total advance.
One other thing make sure you balancer is degreed prperly and stay away from the dial back lites as I have seen them burn up mor pistons over the years.
Here is a few links to look over on timing lites.
http://www.dragracingonline.com/technical/vii_10-lights-1.html
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/173877/
MCdirt1
08-27-2010, 06:01 PM
On a circle track engine who care what the initial timing is you need to know what your total timing is and set your timing at the RPM where you dist. stops advancing,
Setting your timing at 3000 could burn your engine up if your engine has to be at 3800 Per say to acheive total advance.
One other thing make sure you balancer is degreed prperly and stay away from the dial back lites as I have seen them burn up mor pistons over the years.
Here is a few links to look over on timing lites.
http://www.dragracingonline.com/technical/vii_10-lights-1.html
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/173877/
Thanks for the great information, I feel that based on the responses I need to go back in and check the degree and go from there. Rather spend a few hours time and a few dollars in gaskets than many hours and many dollars for the sake of a blown motor. I have seen many pistons fried due to a timing issue.
zipper06
08-27-2010, 08:19 PM
As Carl/Hink says wherever the distributor goes to full advance set the timing at somewhere between 34 and 40 degrees, whatever the motor likes. If that doesn't cure the problems you have other issues, such as radiator or waterpump, also you didn't say if you were runing a fan shroud, that's a must.
JMO
Zip.
MCdirt1
08-28-2010, 05:41 PM
As Carl/Hink says wherever the distributor goes to full advance set the timing at somewhere between 34 and 40 degrees, whatever the motor likes. If that doesn't cure the problems you have other issues, such as radiator or waterpump, also you didn't say if you were runing a fan shroud, that's a must.
JMO
Zip.
Yes, it has a custom made fan shroud to direct more air and a new tri pass rad. also a stewart stage two aluminum water pump. The carb is a new 1850, may need re jetting, it may have 12-15 laps on it, engine has always run hot despite all efforts to correct. I have been told by several that " it is going to run hot because of the bore.060" I know that is not the issue as most of the engines I have built were .060" and I have not had this continued problem. Thanks for the info.