shut down procedure

[mooneye777]

Now that we have had the burnout procedure thread, its time for the shut down procedure.

I have usually have thrown the car into neutral after crossing the 1320 mark, is this the proper way to end a run ? I have been told by some to leave it in gear, and by others to throw it in neutral, What is the way you do it.!!!!!!!

[TS1955]

If it's a real short track I'll leave it in gear to help slow it down...but if I have a lot of room I'll put it in nuetral and just use the brakes.

TS1955

[hammertime]

no way will I ever put a car in N ... I've witnessed more people loose the car and worse get hurt by doing this.

It may be easier on things to some but I have no issues not doing it .. just a risk I am not willing to take.

[slowmotion]

I've used neutral before. I had cooling problems and would shut the car down and coast. Gateway has a very loooonnnggg shut down. Since we put in the new radiator, I leave it in gear. going to neutral can be very dangerous.

[TS1955]

no way will I ever put a car in N ... I've witnessed more people loose the car and worse get hurt by doing this.

It may be easier on things to some but I have no issues not doing it .. just a risk I am not willing to take.

Hey David,
You've got me couriuos about this...Please explain. Thanks

TS1955

[THERATTLER]

maybe just my cars , but in my dragster if I throw it up in neutral the chassis unloads and it starts moving around ALOT . IF i LEAVE IT IN GEAR , IT STOPS STRAIGHT , NO BOUNCING OR ANY OTHER BAD BEHAVIOR..woops didn't mean for those to be caps ,,,sorry

[oldandtired]

Maniac, the CAP POLICE are watching you!!!
:lol: Dave

[THERATTLER]

I know :oops: :oops: not real stupid , just can't type :D

[THERATTLER]

I don't know if there is any truth to it or not , but I was also told one time that it was bad for a automatic trans to be put in neutral at high speed , something about it turning at high rpms but the pump not because engine is off or idleing , like I said , mayby some trans guys might know more on this,,,,Paul
found this thread on the subject http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=10286

[hammertime]

no way will I ever put a car in N ... I've witnessed more people loose the car and worse get hurt by doing this.

It may be easier on things to some but I have no issues not doing it .. just a risk I am not willing to take.

Hey David,
You've got me couriuos about this...Please explain. Thanks

TS1955

Sometimes its easy to find reverse .. I seen this happen at norwalks ten grand nationals this year, it took out 2 cars both drivers were ok. I seen a TS car last year roll 10-12 times and go into flames he had minor burns. I seen a brand new dragster go to the scrap from this also. No sense is risking injury to yourself or others, accidents do happen.

[fla1976]

Saw a Maerick hit reverse at the end of the run and that car was a total wreck. Not worth the risk.

[TS1955]

no way will I ever put a car in N ... I've witnessed more people loose the car and worse get hurt by doing this.

It may be easier on things to some but I have no issues not doing it .. just a risk I am not willing to take.

Hey David,
You've got me couriuos about this...Please explain. Thanks

TS1955

Sometimes its easy to find reverse .. I seen this happen at norwalks ten grand nationals this year, it took out 2 cars both drivers were ok. I seen a TS car last year roll 10-12 times and go into flames he had minor burns. I seen a brand new dragster go to the scrap from this also. No sense is risking injury to yourself or others, accidents do happen.

I see your point and I understand it...But my shifter has a reverse lockout and also I would have to push my trans brake button also to activate reverse. Was all of the accident you describe due to hitting reverse instead of nuetral? And Thanks for your response. Please don't think that I'm nit-picking...I'm just always trying to learn.

TS1955

[gnsrule]

I knew a guy that exploded his trans and split the case and flipped the majority of his trans upside down from going to neutral at the stripe
Im told when you go to neutral at high speed, you start driveing the planetary or something diifferantly at a hi rate of speed and then it explodes.Or something to that affect.

[MEMRACING62]

I knew a guy that exploded his trans and split the case and flipped the majority of his trans upside down from going to neutral at the stripe
Im told when you go to neutral at high speed, you start driveing the planetary or something diifferantly at a hi rate of speed and then it explodes.Or something to that affect. I read in another thread this will happen with a th400

[THERATTLER]

I posted a link to that thread a few post back up the page
http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=10286

[shawnp]

I have seen a lot of stupid accidents caused by people going for neutral. I have seen the reverse lock out fail and send the car into reverse. I have seen guys put it in neutral and bump a button or hit a toggle switch wired for reverse back up when reaching for another switch. I have seen guys explode turbo 400's going to neutral. It's not worth it, not a safe practice and can put you and the other driver at risk.

[hammertime]

no way will I ever put a car in N ... I've witnessed more people loose the car and worse get hurt by doing this.

It may be easier on things to some but I have no issues not doing it .. just a risk I am not willing to take.

Hey David,
You've got me couriuos about this...Please explain. Thanks

TS1955

Sometimes its easy to find reverse .. I seen this happen at norwalks ten grand nationals this year, it took out 2 cars both drivers were ok. I seen a TS car last year roll 10-12 times and go into flames he had minor burns. I seen a brand new dragster go to the scrap from this also. No sense is risking injury to yourself or others, accidents do happen.

I see your point and I understand it...But my shifter has a reverse lockout and also I would have to push my trans brake button also to activate reverse. Was all of the accident you describe due to hitting reverse instead of nuetral? And Thanks for your response. Please don't think that I'm nit-picking...I'm just always trying to learn.

TS1955

Dont worry I knew you werent picking :)

The ones I have seen do this have had reverse lockouts and they slide right on by them, some shifters are very easy to do this some other not so easy. Stupid things can happens thats why they are accidents, just my thoughts are never take the chance.

[bjuice]

I have been knocking in neutral from 7.50's down to 4.90's (personally)...Got Friends knocking in neutral down to 4.20's ( door cars)..never a problem. i been going to the track for nearly 30 years and Never saw an accident caused by someone going into Neutral or any trannys explode for knocking in neutral.. :shock: ....but i have seen some screw ups by people getting on the transbrake Button crossing the stripe because it was located where it shouldn't have been....but on the Flip side i can see why someone would leave it in High Gear . No issues with me either way...whatever works for you


now if your running a mechanical fuel pump on blown applications..we are talking another story..

[topsportsman1]

Leave in high gear untill I round the corner to the return road.Its alot safer that way. :wink:

[bjuice]

Leave in high gear untill I round the corner to the return road.Its alot safer that way. :wink:


hey i am glad you got that Daayyymmm avatar back up...i was begining to think you sold out to Snowmobiles for good........lol :D

i can see it Now...Tom in the 'x" games..... :shock:

[cepx111]

I run on a track with a short shutdown area so I always leave it in drive.

However.....

I have accidently put a car in reverse running thru the 1/4 at a test and tune session at MMP.
Apparently my shifter linkage had gotten out of adjustment and I didnt realize it till I put it in neutral > too late....
Luckily for me I didnt damage anything but the driveshaft and it was only slightly bent :shock: .
It locked up the rear tires for a sec and killed the motor instantly, as soon as I realized what had happeded I shifted it back into drive, maybe that saved me some damage, scared the pee out of me though. :lol:

I never even think about putting a car in neutral now, short track or not, just not worth the risk IMO.

Cp

[mooneye777]

Thanks for the input everyone. I have heard about the tranny possibility failure, but never seen it happen. I have see a car shoved into reverse and slam into the wall, but no lockout on the shifter to save this. I had a new B&M pro stick shifter that if you did not have the handle fully pulled in it would go into reverse from 2nd gear. I will start keeping it in gear for safety sake to avoid the possibility of hitting reverse and to slow it down a bit sooner.

[tott]

if you go to MADCAP racing they have a reason for putting it in neutral, i have done it both ways, my engine seem to like it better going to neutral

[blowninjected540]

When I bought my last 2 trans they told me not too put it in Neutrel, because it may cause severe trans problems, Now that is from Coan when i bought my th400, and then again TCI said the same thing when I bought my powerglide. Leave it in high gear.

[bjuice]

madcaps reason behind it..


http://www.madcapracing.com/instructions/after-your-run.shtml

[hammertime]

madcaps reason behind it..


http://www.madcapracing.com/instructions/after-your-run.shtml


Sounds crazy to me .. they should invest in some R&D to get a good oil pan, pump and pickup problem solved. Mine doesnt drop and doesnt look nothing other then new bearing wise when it does come apart. I would rather take my chances of leaving in gear and hurting a motor rather then hurting myself. :D

[cepx111]

Ditto.

During shutdown at over 100 mph hard on the brakes 'in drive' my oil pressure never gets lower than 40 PSI, and I've just have a plain 'ol econo hamburger oil pan, trap door, nicely baffled nothing fancy> $198 @ Jegs


Cp

[hammertime]

Ditto.

During shutdown at over 100 mph hard on the brakes 'in drive' my oil pressure never gets lower than 40 PSI, and I've just have a plain 'ol econo hamburger oil pan, trap door, nicely baffled nothing fancy> $198 @ Jegs


Cp

I run the same type of cheap pan but a Moroso ... I've owned the "high" end stuff and it drops fast ! sometimes back to the basics is a good thing.
Our pans may not make the extra 20hp as some others but we also dont have other issues they can casue :D

[bjuice]

well hammer you may not see a visual drop on the mechanical gauge going thru the traps at 140+ mph..but its safe to say you not staring at it very long either... :D ....

another thing if anyone thinks oil in the pan doesn't move forward in the pan away from the pump on a hard deceleration...think again.

thats why many top notch racers use dry sump oiling systems..( for this reason)

again whatever works for you...both shut down procedures are used succesfully thousands of times each weekend across the country

[lively]

ANOTHER point of view on this---if you have power steering on your car--AND you throw it in nuetral AND shut the engine OFF YOU HAVE NO POWER STEERING[ AND ON SOME CARS THAT CAN GET YOU KILLED :oops: :oops: ]
and i wasn't going 140 mph's :shock: :shock: :shock:

I ALWAYS HAD 4 SPEEDS AND WOULD LEAVE IT IN GEAR [MOST OF THE TIME]
LIVELY

[hammertime]

well hammer you may not see a visual drop on the mechanical gauge going thru the traps at 140+ mph..but its safe to say you not staring at it very long either... :D ....

another thing if anyone thinks oil in the pan doesn't move forward in the pan away from the pump on a hard deceleration...think again.

thats why many top notch racers use dry sump oiling systems..( for this reason)

again whatever works for you...both shut down procedures are used succesfully thousands of times each weekend across the country

I stare at 3 gauges a lot .. 1 oil pressure in the shut down, 2 vacuum pressure during a run from start to finish (its actually crazy what can be gained in making a bracket car consistent by the vacuum) and the trans temp gauge again more consistent.

I've been through several oil pans in the past, if you get the right pickup location on the pump and a sump that is not very long (front to back) your almost guarnteed not to loose preasure :)

I agree it may work for some but the last thing I need in the other lane is someone to reverse it and find me and total both cars or worse hurt us both. Like I said I guess I have just seen enough of this over the years to see what happens if something goes wrong and you miss N and find R .. motors are cheap compared to my life :D

[shawnp]

Agreeing with Dave here. I have gone thru at 140+ and there has been no drop on the gauge and the idiot light did not kick on.

I have said it before, the only place N is far enough away from R is in the alphabet.

[zipper06]

I always leave mine in high gear, short track or long track and i also run the cheap baffled pans, the only time i bump mine to nutural is if i break something. Obviously a door car cross member type step pan has less chance of the oil running too the front. Of course an accumulator is cheap ins.
Now time for the giggles :lol:
I would worry about bumping into reverse even with a lock out shifter. S0 40 plus yrs ago before all the high dollar shifters was even thought of and i made my own shifters. I took to the redneck solution (will still work today) if you want too be absolutely certain of not hitting reverse. I took a small cabinet type hinge and bolted it to one side of the shift gate, and before i started the run i would just flip over the hinge so it would be impossible to go past nutural. I did that with my early blower cars because i did used to go to nutural and shut down the engine at the same time i pulled the chute.

JMO

Zip.

[bjuice]

Well Guys i am not trying to convince anyone to Bump in Neutral...and i do think we are speaking of two different kinds of Cars here...excluding the fact there is extra wear and tear on the engine by not going into Neutral....the #1 reason PRO-AND BIG nos Money racers get in Neutral then Kill the Engine is getting actual Plug readings...which is impossible to do running thru and letting it wind down in gear and Not shutting engine off....

hammer you speak as if Going into Neutral is a high Wire death defying Act,I don't think the debate of drag racing being dangerous starts or stops with this procedure, when in fact its a procedure that is commonly used with Top level racers where fine tunning is a MUST....

I AM NOT saying this will work for you or anyone else..what i am saying there is a valid reason for it and is a requirement at a higher level.

here is a copy of a thread on another site i think some of you will find interesting...the site is mainly devoted to 10.5 Oultaw racing where ET'S and Mph range from 4.20's and up to 190 mph..

there are a few 10.5 champions that responded that have posted their shut down procedure and reason why....and i think they are still alive and has killed No-one. :shock:
i do know PERSONALLY That Ex-Pro-mod World champion Scotty Cannon and Quann Stott use this procedure.I haven't spoken with John force or any of those Guys but from what i have seen in person and on TV they are in neutral and killing the engine as well...not to mention pro-stock cars and Bikes ...Go Figure.



I guess what i am after here is to keep the original person who ask the question 100% informed..instead of demonizing and scaring him to death. why not tell him why this procedure is done and let him make up his own Mind..i think i said from the start its whatever works for you..i am not advocating either way.


http://z3.invisionfree.com/Shadyside_Dragway/index.php?showtopic=11532

[bad60gmc]

I've used neutral before. I had cooling problems and would shut the car down and coast. Gateway has a very loooonnnggg shut down. Since we put in the new radiator, I leave it in gear. going to neutral can be very dangerous.I agree, if you shift neutral and the ass starts washing around you cant ease on the gas to pull out of it. If you pull it back in gear while its washing your really in for a ride. I personally dont let off the gas untill I feel the chute open, then let off and let it slow down in gear. thats my 2 cents

[mooneye777]

[quote="bjuice"]Well Guys i am not trying to convince anyone to Bump in Neutral...and i do think we are speaking of two different kinds of Cars here...excluding the fact there is extra wear and tear on the engine by not going into Neutral....the #1 reason PRO-AND BIG nos Money racers get in Neutral then Kill the Engine is getting actual Plug readings...which is impossible to do running thru and letting it wind down in gear and Not shutting engine off....

I don't think the debate of drag racing being dangerous starts or stops with this procedure, when in fact its a procedure that is commonly used with Top level racers where fine tunning is a MUST....

I AM NOT saying this will work for you or anyone else..what i am saying there is a valid reason for it and is a requirement at a higher level.

there are a few 10.5 champions that responded that have posted their shut down procedure and reason why....and i think they are still alive and has killed No-one. :shock:
i do know PERSONALLY That Ex-Pro-mod World champion Scotty Cannon and Quann Stott use this procedure.I haven't spoken with John force or any of those Guys but from what i have seen in person and on TV they are in neutral and killing the engine as well...not to mention pro-stock cars and Bikes ...Go Figure.

I guess what i am after here is to keep the original person who ask the question 100% informed..instead of demonizing and scaring him to death. why not tell him why this procedure is done and let him make up his own Mind..i think i said from the start its whatever works for you..i am not advocating either way.

I have usually thrown it in N at 155 MPH with no ill handling habits. I was recently informed of it mainly being hard on the drive line, witch was the reason I asked. I could see a street drven door car getting speed wobbles mainly because the susspension is not designed to run that fast, and then coast. But my old dragster felt no different other then quiet.

I read one statement that it slowly works the rear main bearing out of place by leaving it in gear, thats the stuff along with the tranny failure I am worried about. I guess I will just try the car as it is new to me and run it the way it handles best. I fear the thought of crashing my car and for sure do not want to destroy the car next to me.

Thanks fro everyones opinions, it is interesting that its a what works best situation for most drivers on here.