Chinese look a like Little-M block

[hink]

We have one in shop right now and have looked it over and checked it for brinnel test and it seems to be a very soft block as it tested in the low 140's

To give you an idea a 010 block is around 180ish and SHP block tested mid 190's and the Little-M and Big-M are mid 230's because of the nickel content.

It lools like the block is finished honed and I have not probed it out for locations for deck heights, cylinder bore loctaions, lifter bore locations ETC.

Looks like once the cylinders were honed they decked the blocka nd left a burr at the top of the cylinder as there is a zero chamfer on the tops of the cylinders.

The lifter bores have a huge ridge at the top and on the bottom of the bores I would assume from machining the soft cast iron.

With that soft of bore it would wear the cylinders out in a short time as well as the lifter bores.

The rear main cap is not even flat where the pump sets on and they have welded what it looks like a insert where the threads are.

I will post pics later on and what we find for demensions in another thead.

For right now it does not look like a very high end peice and is surely a copy cat of the Dart Little-M block

I beleive PBM is selling them with their name on them!!

[Tod74]

Are these blocks better or worse than a factory 400 4 bolt main?

[TheYellaBrick]

BUY AMERICAN !!!

[mopar1962]

x2 140? thats weaker than a standard block.Time to pay a visit....

[Tod74]

BUY AMERICAN !!!

I agree but you probably have more China crap than you care to believe. MADE IN AMERICA doesn't always mean it was MADE IN AMERICA.

FACT!

[MEMRACING62]

SAD BUT TRUE :cry: :cry: :evil: :evil:

[FullTimeRacing]

Only a %(I belive 60) of total cost OF THE PRODUCT including advertiseing to be called "MADE in the USA" :roll: :roll:

[Tod74]

I worked for a company that had some stuff made in CHINA then unboxed it, washed it in a hot tank, stamped the part number on it with a pin stamp and "USA" and repacked it.

[OneBadGMC]

I worked for a company that had some stuff made in CHINA then unboxed it, washed it in a hot tank, stamped the part number on it with a pin stamp and "USA" and repacked it.

You know that's illegal right? The owners of the business can be fined and jailed by the US government for doing that.

[TheRabbit]

I worked for a company that had some stuff made in CHINA then unboxed it, washed it in a hot tank, stamped the part number on it with a pin stamp and "USA" and repacked it.

You know that's illegal right? The owners of the business can be fined and jailed by the US government for doing that.

By the same governmant that's lying to us by telling me my TAXES WANT GO UP to pay for all these wounderfull stimulus ideas?! Sad, but you are right!

[OneBadGMC]

I worked for a company that had some stuff made in CHINA then unboxed it, washed it in a hot tank, stamped the part number on it with a pin stamp and "USA" and repacked it.

You know that's illegal right? The owners of the business can be fined and jailed by the US government for doing that.

By the same governmant that's lying to us by telling me my TAXES WANT GO UP to pay for all these wounderfull stimulus ideas?! Sad, but you are right!

Well, you can blame the 'sheeple' wanting 'change' for that. They're getting change, just not change for the better.

[FullTimeRacing]

I worked for a company that had some stuff made in CHINA then unboxed it, washed it in a hot tank, stamped the part number on it with a pin stamp and "USA" and repacked it.

If you spend $40 to have a product made in china then ship it over.

then spend $60 to check it out repack and advertise it for sale at $150 ,It's made in the USA

I don't agree ,but thats what i read

[TheRabbit]

It's called Foreign Trade. I fully understand we need to do some foreign trade and I agree it's a small world and we all need to work together and help each other, but all this is part of what's gotten us in this mess to begin with. We need to take care of ourselves FIRST. I agree, buy American, but that doesn't have the same meaning it did 25 years ago. The only way you can buy or help America(s) is to support your local businesses. Eventhough not all of their products will be "mad in the USA" you are helping put food on their table by spending $ with them.

[onegreatdealer]

I agree too much is made in China, but that isn't the point here.

I disagree about the knockoff engine blocks from PBM. Currently I have 2 SBC's that I am using with these aftermarket blocks from PBM. My engine builder got them for me in a 4.155" bore. These were ready to assembled. Everything speced out perfect! These have proven to be a value beyond my expectations. I would be more interested in hearing the findings of an independent test. Even more surprising is the web page link listed isn't functioning? To anyone out there, I would use these blocks over again, and recommend them to anyone interested. I look forward to your comments.
:x :x

[OneBadGMC]

I agree too much is made in China, but that isn't the point here.

I disagree about the knockoff engine blocks from PBM. Currently I have 2 SBC's that I am using with these aftermarket blocks from PBM. My engine builder got them for me in a 4.155" bore. These were ready to assembled. Everything speced out perfect! These have proven to be a value beyond my expectations. I would be more interested in hearing the findings of an independent test. Even more surprising is the web page link listed isn't functioning? To anyone out there, I would use these blocks over again, and recommend them to anyone interested. I look forward to your comments.
:x :x

How long have you had the blocks?
How many miles or full passes are on the motors they are being used with?
Have you pulled the motors down since building and if so, what did the mains and cylinder bores look like?
How big of a cam were you using?
What did the lifter bores look like?
How high are you RPM'ing the motor?

All important things to take into consideration to say the least. Just because you threw it together and it fired up doesn't mean it's not junk.

[hink]

I agree too much is made in China, but that isn't the point here.

I disagree about the knockoff engine blocks from PBM. Currently I have 2 SBC's that I am using with these aftermarket blocks from PBM. My engine builder got them for me in a 4.155" bore. These were ready to assembled. Everything speced out perfect! These have proven to be a value beyond my expectations. I would be more interested in hearing the findings of an independent test. Even more surprising is the web page link listed isn't functioning? To anyone out there, I would use these blocks over again, and recommend them to anyone interested. I look forward to your comments.
:x :x

My new website is under constuction as the gentlmen that designed mine is going through a devorce at this time a is no longer doing websites at this time.

What machines did you verify lifter bore and cylinder bore and cam tunnel locations with and son't tell me a vernier and what did the block brinell test at??

By the end of the week I should have some good photos and some reports on demensions.

Believe me those blocks are sent to Florida and a shop their is engraving PBM on the caps and blocks adding a stud kit line hone and finished machined.


The one we have the oil galley hole is to low int the bore and is not even square with the main line and you can see that by eye!!

I am sure you sonic tested right????????????

[curtisreed]

I agree too much is made in China, but that isn't the point here.

I disagree about the knockoff engine blocks from PBM. Currently I have 2 SBC's that I am using with these aftermarket blocks from PBM. My engine builder got them for me in a 4.155" bore. These were ready to assembled. Everything speced out perfect! These have proven to be a value beyond my expectations. I would be more interested in hearing the findings of an independent test. Even more surprising is the web page link listed isn't functioning? To anyone out there, I would use these blocks over again, and recommend them to anyone interested. I look forward to your comments.
:x :x

My new website is under constuction as the gentlmen that designed mine is going through a devorce at this time a is no longer doing websites at this time.

What machines did you verify lifter bore and cylinder bore and cam tunnel locations with and son't tell me a vernier and what did the block brinell test at??

By the end of the week I should have some good photos and some reports on demensions.

Believe me those blocks are sent to Florida and a shop their is engraving PBM on the caps and blocks adding a stud kit line hone and finished machined.


The one we have the oil galley hole is to low int the bore and is not even square with the main line and you can see that by eye!!

I am sure you sonic tested right????????????

Speced out perfect on a CMM????? or with a rule?

[onegreatdealer]

I got these blocks about 6 months ago. They are circle track 434ci engines. The first one has about 1000 laps or so on it and is running great. The second we build as a backup, and simply haven't had to use it. We had the pan off at about 800 laps, everything looked great. We change the oil and cut the filter every week. We simply haven't had any problems. Sounds like somebody doesn't like the new kid on the block.

[hink]

I got these blocks about 6 months ago. They are circle track 434ci engines. The first one has about 1000 laps or so on it and is running great. The second we build as a backup, and simply haven't had to use it. We had the pan off at about 800 laps, everything looked great. We change the oil and cut the filter every week. We simply haven't had any problems. Sounds like somebody doesn't like the new kid on the block.

Don't you work for Wheeler or tied in with them and sell those blocks and of coarse you say they are the best blocks out their.

And I beleive its Wheeler that is machining the blocks for PBM Correct???

[hink]

I just received call from a shop that has a PBM block and on some of the outter splayed bolt holes some of them go right into the water jacket. And they are going to send me this block for inspection to see for sure if they are the same castings or not.

[PBMPerformane]

My name is Dick Boyer I am the director of sales and marketing for PBM performance Parts. I just wanted to clear up a few miss leading posts regarding our new PBM iron block. We at PBM strive to provide the engine builder with good quality engine parts and at no time would we knowingly sell something that had an issue in any way. So with all the allegations posted on this site I thought it best if you heard it from the people most resposible. We sent 3 blocks out to an independent metallurgical lab today to have a BHN test performed on them we sent a Bow tie GM block a Dart little M block and our new PBM iron block all of the blocks tested above 187 the PBM block tested 195. I also had a PBM block cut into sections to determine wall thickness and am sending a section of this block to an independent metallurgical lab to have a BHN test a rockwell test as well as a chemical analysis to determine the propertiies of the iron the block is made of the lab says this is the most accurate method. We here at PBM do not take lightly any idea that we would sell something that has issues of any type. If you have questions about this or any PBM products feel free to email me at [email protected] or call the PBM technical line at 800-588-9608

[hink]

My name is Dick Boyer I am the director of sales and marketing for PBM performance Parts. I just wanted to clear up a few miss leading posts regarding our new PBM iron block. We at PBM strive to provide the engine builder with good quality engine parts and at no time would we knowingly sell something that had an issue in any way. So with all the allegations posted on this site I thought it best if you heard it from the people most resposible. We sent 3 blocks out to an independent metallurgical lab today to have a BHN test performed on them we sent a Bow tie GM block a Dart little M block and our new PBM iron block all of the blocks tested above 187 the PBM block tested 195. I also had a PBM block cut into sections to determine wall thickness and am sending a section of this block to an independent metallurgical lab to have a BHN test a rockwell test as well as a chemical analysis to determine the propertiies of the iron the block is made of the lab says this is the most accurate method. We here at PBM do not take lightly any idea that we would sell something that has issues of any type. If you have questions about this or any PBM products feel free to email me at [email protected] or call the PBM technical line at 800-588-9608

Your sales rep already called me today and said they had it tested and it was certified at 195 on the brinell testing. Interesting

I have not seen one of your blocks yet and have nothing to go by as far as brinell testing and from the discription of your block and the one I have here they seem very similar other then the main studs and valley screen.

Only time will tell if it arrives.

[hammertime]

I know a shop that has a brand new PBM block sitting there waiting to be used he said it looks top notch and will know soon enough if it is or isnt :)

[ashbros]

Interesting thread

[hink]

I know a shop that has a brand new PBM block sitting there waiting to be used he said it looks top notch and will know soon enough if it is or isnt :)

Interesting as I have not seen a PBM block yet and the one I have there is no paper work no name no serial number but that one needs a ton of work just deburring the thing I guess I can call the block I have brand -X as I see they are all over EBAY and the internet for sale.

[hammertime]

I know a shop that has a brand new PBM block sitting there waiting to be used he said it looks top notch and will know soon enough if it is or isnt :)

Interesting as I have not seen a PBM block yet and the one I have there is no paper work no name no serial number but that one needs a ton of work just deburring the thing I guess I can call the block I have brand -X as I see they are all over EBAY and the internet for sale.

The shop that has them prob is one of the biggest PBM users out there, I asked him if he had read on the www about the soft blocks, he had not but said he was not worried as they (PBM) did a lot of research before sending them to anyone, and was not sure if the block tested was even a PBM. I assumed the one you had tested said PBM on it being you put their name on the bottom of the post, I am interested to hear the results when you do get one there.

[hink]

Update on the block I have which came from my warehouse and this block we will call brand-X no name or paper work came with this block.

After measuring the mains which measured 2.6385 my centering rings are not going to work and the cam tunnel is 1.197 to 1.198 so my my adjustable fixture is not going to work in this block.

When I get time I will line hone the mains and make a plug for the cam tunnel.

I will get some pics and post later.

[OneBadGMC]

Update on the block I have which came from my warehouse and this block we will call brand-X no name or paper work came with this block.

After measuring the mains which measured 2.6385 my centering rings are not going to work and the cam tunnel is 1.197 to 1.198 so my my adjustable fixture is not going to work in this block.

When I get time I will line hone the mains and make a plug for the cam tunnel.

I will get some pics and post later.

So when you got this no-name block from your warehouse, did the shipping paper say "Generic Block" and have no part number, or was there a description on the paperwork?

[hink]

Update on the block I have which came from my warehouse and this block we will call brand-X no name or paper work came with this block.

After measuring the mains which measured 2.6385 my centering rings are not going to work and the cam tunnel is 1.197 to 1.198 so my my adjustable fixture is not going to work in this block.

When I get time I will line hone the mains and make a plug for the cam tunnel.

I will get some pics and post later.

So when you got this no-name block from your warehouse, did the shipping paper say "Generic Block" and have no part number, or was there a description on the paperwork?

Just said engine block

[hink]

Some pics of the Brand-X block I have.

The rear seal area of the block has no bevel which is required for the seal to fit properly with no leaks.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CNCBLOCKS/chinese001.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CNCBLOCKS/chinese002.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CNCBLOCKS/chinese003.jpg

[boostaddict]

I know a shop that has a brand new PBM block sitting there waiting to be used he said it looks top notch and will know soon enough if it is or isnt :)

Interesting as I have not seen a PBM block yet and the one I have there is no paper work no name no serial number but that one needs a ton of work just deburring the thing I guess I can call the block I have brand -X as I see they are all over EBAY and the internet for sale.

So in your first post you're bashing this block & throwing PBM under the bus & now you say the block you have is not a PBM block & that you've never even seen a PBM block? Nice work. That sounds like slander in my book.

[hink]

I know a shop that has a brand new PBM block sitting there waiting to be used he said it looks top notch and will know soon enough if it is or isnt :)

Interesting as I have not seen a PBM block yet and the one I have there is no paper work no name no serial number but that one needs a ton of work just deburring the thing I guess I can call the block I have brand -X as I see they are all over EBAY and the internet for sale.

So in your first post you're bashing this block & throwing PBM under the bus & now you say the block you have is not a PBM block & that you've never even seen a PBM block? Nice work. That sounds like slander in my book.

WTF can't you read as this is what I wrote, First time poster I see HMMMMMMMMM
I beleive PBM is selling them with their name on them!!

[hink]

I know a shop that has a brand new PBM block sitting there waiting to be used he said it looks top notch and will know soon enough if it is or isnt :)

Interesting as I have not seen a PBM block yet and the one I have there is no paper work no name no serial number but that one needs a ton of work just deburring the thing I guess I can call the block I have brand -X as I see they are all over EBAY and the internet for sale.

So in your first post you're bashing this block & throwing PBM under the bus & now you say the block you have is not a PBM block & that you've never even seen a PBM block? Nice work. That sounds like slander in my book.

Go to this forum on page 3 of this thread and argue with this guy as he has seen them both I have not seen the PBM block

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161360

Here is his quote

I've seen both the PBM and the pro comp and they are the same block.

[nwhp]

We have one in shop right now and have looked it over and checked it for brinnel test and it seems to be a very soft block as it tested in the low 140's

To give you an idea a 010 block is around 180ish and SHP block tested mid 190's and the Little-M and Big-M are mid 230's because of the nickel content.

It lools like the block is finished honed and I have not probed it out for locations for deck heights, cylinder bore loctaions, lifter bore locations ETC.

Looks like once the cylinders were honed they decked the blocka nd left a burr at the top of the cylinder as there is a zero chamfer on the tops of the cylinders.

The lifter bores have a huge ridge at the top and on the bottom of the bores I would assume from machining the soft cast iron.

With that soft of bore it would wear the cylinders out in a short time as well as the lifter bores.

The rear main cap is not even flat where the pump sets on and they have welded what it looks like a insert where the threads are.

I will post pics later on and what we find for demensions in another thead.

For right now it does not look like a very high end peice and is surely a copy cat of the Dart Little-M block

I beleive PBM is selling them with their name on them!!


Carl, why even mention PBM? I think the people calling you out have a point.

Now I'm sure you will make a comment about how many times I have posted or not, but isn't it true that you make a habit out of starting threads like this one where you run down a product or someone elses work to make you look like some kind of hero.

Again Carl, why even throw PBM under the bus until you are 100% sure it is the same product? Why mention Wheeler in Florida?

It just doesn't show much class on your part.


Mark

[FullTimeRacing]

I think if Hink wants to post an educated opinion on what a block may be that fine,but he dose say that he will call it block X.

It's funny that a bunch of frist time posters come out to defend a crappy block.

[nwhp]

I'm not defending the block, it may well be complete crap; but Carl shouldn't have brought PBM & Wheeler into the discussion until he can say without a doubt that they are selling the same junk.

Have you read the Terms & Conditions of this Forum? To post you have to agree, in part, to not make Libelous and Defamatory statements
etc. etc.

Carl has insinuated that PBM is having Wheeler machine these low quality blocks and then passes them off as something better. Carl doesn't know if these statements are true but he goes ahead and throws them out there anyway.

I would bet Carl would be hopping mad if someone made libelous, slanderous and defamatory statements about his work product.


Mark

[hink]

We have one in shop right now and have looked it over and checked it for brinnel test and it seems to be a very soft block as it tested in the low 140's

To give you an idea a 010 block is around 180ish and SHP block tested mid 190's and the Little-M and Big-M are mid 230's because of the nickel content.

It lools like the block is finished honed and I have not probed it out for locations for deck heights, cylinder bore loctaions, lifter bore locations ETC.

Looks like once the cylinders were honed they decked the blocka nd left a burr at the top of the cylinder as there is a zero chamfer on the tops of the cylinders.

The lifter bores have a huge ridge at the top and on the bottom of the bores I would assume from machining the soft cast iron.

With that soft of bore it would wear the cylinders out in a short time as well as the lifter bores.

The rear main cap is not even flat where the pump sets on and they have welded what it looks like a insert where the threads are.

I will post pics later on and what we find for demensions in another thead.

For right now it does not look like a very high end peice and is surely a copy cat of the Dart Little-M block

I beleive PBM is selling them with their name on them!!


Carl, why even mention PBM? I think the people calling you out have a point.

Now I'm sure you will make a comment about how many times I have posted or not, but isn't it true that you make a habit out of starting threads like this one where you run down a product or someone elses work to make you look like some kind of hero.

Again Carl, why even throw PBM under the bus until you are 100% sure it is the same product? Why mention Wheeler in Florida?

It just doesn't show much class on your part.


Mark

Read all my posts as i mention that I have net seen a PBM block yet, but if one shows up in my shop I will post pics of the PBM against the Brand-X block I have here now and this block has no name on it and came with no paper work saying who block it is.

And the block I have matches the ones I have seen on EBAY.

Again reread my posts

You maybe the one that came over to speedtalk to start some trouble and you didn't get far over there.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17747&start=90

[MEMRACING62]

carl, keep posting any testing results on this block you come up with. it seems like the defenders of this block all have a vested interest in it.

[hink]

I talk to Dick Boyer yesterday and I told him a block was being sent to me to probe it out and I would not post the the results on the forums but would email him my findings and to the shop that is sending the block.

And by his response he seemd very interested in what I find as far as loctions and lifter bore angles ETC.

Again I have never seen a PBM block yet and I am pretty sure Wheeler is doing the machine work to the blocks and that is only here say but I have been told by enough high up people in this industry that know whats going on.

[nwhp]

We have one in shop right now and have looked it over and checked it for brinnel test and it seems to be a very soft block as it tested in the low 140's

To give you an idea a 010 block is around 180ish and SHP block tested mid 190's and the Little-M and Big-M are mid 230's because of the nickel content.

It lools like the block is finished honed and I have not probed it out for locations for deck heights, cylinder bore loctaions, lifter bore locations ETC.

Looks like once the cylinders were honed they decked the blocka nd left a burr at the top of the cylinder as there is a zero chamfer on the tops of the cylinders.

The lifter bores have a huge ridge at the top and on the bottom of the bores I would assume from machining the soft cast iron.

With that soft of bore it would wear the cylinders out in a short time as well as the lifter bores.

The rear main cap is not even flat where the pump sets on and they have welded what it looks like a insert where the threads are.

I will post pics later on and what we find for demensions in another thead.

For right now it does not look like a very high end peice and is surely a copy cat of the Dart Little-M block

I beleive PBM is selling them with their name on them!!


Carl, why even mention PBM? I think the people calling you out have a point.

Now I'm sure you will make a comment about how many times I have posted or not, but isn't it true that you make a habit out of starting threads like this one where you run down a product or someone elses work to make you look like some kind of hero.

Again Carl, why even throw PBM under the bus until you are 100% sure it is the same product? Why mention Wheeler in Florida?

It just doesn't show much class on your part.


Mark

Read all my posts as i mention that I have net seen a PBM block yet, but if one shows up in my shop I will post pics of the PBM against the Brand-X block I have here now and this block has no name on it and came with no paper work saying who block it is.

And the block I have matches the ones I have seen on EBAY.

Again reread my posts

You maybe the one that came over to speedtalk to start some trouble and you didn't get far over there.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17747&start=90


Carl,

I post on speedtalk, but haven't about this subject.

I have read & reread your post. I will quote you:

"I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!"

Again I would ask, why slander PBM & Wheeler until you know for a fact that they are guilty of what you are accusing them of doing???

[nwhp]

carl, keep posting any testing results on this block you come up with. it seems like the defenders of this block all have a vested interest in it.



Again, I'm not defending the brand x Chinese block, I have no doubt that is a cheap piece of crap.

I do not have any vested interest in the Chinese blocks or the block that PBM is selling either.

Mark

[hink]

Carl,

I post on speedtalk, but haven't about this subject.

I have read & reread your post. I will quote you:

"I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!"

Again I would ask, why slander PBM & Wheeler until you know for a fact that they are guilty of what you are accusing them of doing???


Again Mr low poster this again is my quote "I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!" That statement DOES NOT SAY I AM 100% SURE.

So don't put words in my mouth

And if you have read all my posts you will see I have never seen a PBM block to compare against.

[boostaddict]

Carl,

I post on speedtalk, but haven't about this subject.

I have read & reread your post. I will quote you:

"I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!"

Again I would ask, why slander PBM & Wheeler until you know for a fact that they are guilty of what you are accusing them of doing???


Again Mr low poster this again is my quote "I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!" That statement DOES NOT SAY I AM 100% SURE.

So don't put words in my mouth

And if you have read all my posts you will see I have never seen a PBM block to compare against.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I'm not 100% sure though.


****EDIT POST****

Grow up this is a technical section. NO BASHING HERE!

Site Admin.
topsportsman1

Tom McDunnah

[boostaddict]

I don't get the "low poster", "first time poster" comments either. At one time everyone was a first time poster, even you. I've been a member here for almost a year & check it out every once in a while when I need some info because there are some very knowledgeable people that post here. I do this on many forums & every so often I decide to throw my hat in the ring. On almost every forum I get the "low post" comment so it's not just you. I'm just saying I don't get it.

[heshtesh]

Boostaddict: Iknow what your saying i've been rolled down the low post ally also.

[FullTimeRacing]

this is my opinion,

It just shows what your intrest are,as if you have a stake in it.

thats all,im sure y'all or fine people.

hink talk's up dart ,dose he have a stake in it I don't know.

[Tod74]

this is my opinion,

It just shows what your intrest are,as if you have a stake in it.

thats all,im sure y'all or fine people.

hink talk's up dart ,dose he have a stake in it I don't know.

he sells dart blocks but I still think he speaks the truth, not just hipe to sell stuff

[MEMRACING62]

this is my opinion,

It just shows what your intrest are,as if you have a stake in it.

thats all,im sure y'all or fine people.

hink talk's up dart ,dose he have a stake in it I don't know.

he sells dart blocks but I still think he speaks the truth, not just hipe to sell stuff x2.

[heshtesh]

Just got off the phone with PBM and i'm ordering a new block for my new 434ci.. In my opinion the block that Hink is dealing with is in no manner a PBM block, one of the most glaring reasons being on the pan rail opposite the oil filter they have the PBM logo cast into the block as well as cast into all the main caps also when bored out to 4.185 the Dart states the cylinders will still be .230 thick and the PBM .250 my reasoning the PBM might be a slightly stouter piece. One line of reasoning i can't get away from is the fact i find it hard to believe PBM is going to risk thier reputation to bring a piece of junk to market,let's face it in the age of the internet it does'nt take long for junk to be exposed for what it is.PS the block is 1825.00.

[hink]

Just got off the phone with PBM and i'm ordering a new block for my new 434ci.. In my opinion the block that Hink is dealing with is in no manner a PBM block, one of the most glaring reasons being on the pan rail opposite the oil filter they have the PBM logo cast into the block as well as cast into all the main caps also when bored out to 4.185 the Dart states the cylinders will still be .230 thick and the PBM .250 my reasoning the PBM might be a slightly stouter piece. One line of reasoning i can't get away from is the fact i find it hard to believe PBM is going to risk thier reputation to bring a piece of junk to market,let's face it in the age of the internet it does'nt take long for junk to be exposed for what it is.PS the block is 1825.00.

PBM is engraved on the block and caps as there is a big differance between casting the numbers in the casting and engraving with a CNC machine.

PBM's aluminum block there is PBM casted into the block.

[hink]

I see this block on EBAY as a Procomp block which looks just like the one I have for 999.00 and no one bid on it HMMMMMM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320399714642&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2Fitems% 2F%3F_nkw%3D320399714642%26_sacat%3D%26_trksid%3Dp 4506.m270.l1313%26_dmpt%3DMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_A ccessories%26_dmd%3D1%26_odkw%3D%26_osacat%3D6030% 26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

This one is on Racing Junk for 1100.00 and they have 21 of them for sale.
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1274/Blocks/post/1628881/NEW-SBC-CHEVY-BLOCK-4.125-BORE-350-MAINS.html

[MEMRACING62]

Just got off the phone with PBM and i'm ordering a new block for my new 434ci.. In my opinion the block that Hink is dealing with is in no manner a PBM block, one of the most glaring reasons being on the pan rail opposite the oil filter they have the PBM logo cast into the block as well as cast into all the main caps also when bored out to 4.185 the Dart states the cylinders will still be .230 thick and the PBM .250 my reasoning the PBM might be a slightly stouter piece. One line of reasoning i can't get away from is the fact i find it hard to believe PBM is going to risk thier reputation to bring a piece of junk to market,let's face it in the age of the internet it does'nt take long for junk to be exposed for what it is.PS the block is 1825.00.if your buying a knock off block for $1825, why wouldn't you spend a couple bucks more and buy the proven real LIL M? with all the money and work going into a build it just doesn't seem worth the risk :?

[markdunlap]

There is one of our members in Monee Illinois that sells Little M blocks for real resonable price. I bought one, am using it, have never seen one advertised cheaper and he is within my driving range to pick up.
I bought Pro Comp BBC valve covers and they were 1/4" short in length and would not hold a gasket without leaking. I don't think I would buy a PRO COMP Chinese block or heads after that.

[heshtesh]

You know guy's i appreciate the way your looking at this but did'nt someone have to buy the first Dart block in order to gain it's reputation. Where i live a lot of the guy's use PBM parts in thier dirt cars some turning a little over 9 grand sometimes with no quality or durability issues. Life's full of chances and if this piece is what they say it is i think it might prove to be a more stout piece than the Dart. Being a Manufacturer myself i would'nt risk my reputation that i could put a part on market prematuely and i don't think PBM would either. You know if the piece doe's turn out to be what it is indicated to be it could be a hell of a bargain. I like that all 5 mains are 4 bolt and i like the steel main caps and the fact the cylinder walls are a little thicker as i'm building a super charged engine. Sometimes you have to take the leap of faith in life, here go's

[DirkaDirka]

You know guy's i appreciate the way your looking at this but did'nt someone have to buy the first Dart block in order to gain it's reputation. Where i live a lot of the guy's use PBM parts in thier dirt cars some turning a little over 9 grand sometimes with no quality or durability issues. Life's full of chances and if this piece is what they say it is i think it might prove to be a more stout piece than the Dart. Being a Manufacturer myself i would'nt risk my reputation that i could put a part on market prematuely and i don't think PBM would either. You know if the piece doe's turn out to be what it is indicated to be it could be a hell of a bargain. I like that all 5 mains are 4 bolt and i like the steel main caps and the fact the cylinder walls are a little thicker as i'm building a super charged engine. Sometimes you have to take the leap of faith in life, here go's

Yes true. But you also got to put into perspective that there are guys out there that are only interested in the money aspect and dont care what kind of product that turn out.

[boostaddict]

Carl,

I post on speedtalk, but haven't about this subject.

I have read & reread your post. I will quote you:

"I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!"

Again I would ask, why slander PBM & Wheeler until you know for a fact that they are guilty of what you are accusing them of doing???


Again Mr low poster this again is my quote "I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!" That statement DOES NOT SAY I AM 100% SURE.

So don't put words in my mouth

And if you have read all my posts you will see I have never seen a PBM block to compare against.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I'm not 100% sure though.


****EDIT POST****

Grow up this is a technical section. NO BASHING HERE!

Site Admin.
topsportsman1

Tom McDunnah

No bashing here? Then how come you don't delete this whole thread? The whole reason Hink started this thread was to bash PBM about a block he hasn't even seen yet?

[heshtesh]

DirkaDirka: I agree with you 100% thier are a lot of scum bags out there so it comes down to a matter of trust. The way i see it it's the same as buying a set of JE pistons or a Jesel valve train it is a matter of trusting who you are dealing with.

[hink]

Carl,

I post on speedtalk, but haven't about this subject.

I have read & reread your post. I will quote you:

"I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!"

Again I would ask, why slander PBM & Wheeler until you know for a fact that they are guilty of what you are accusing them of doing???


Again Mr low poster this again is my quote "I beleive PBM is selling them with there name on them!!" That statement DOES NOT SAY I AM 100% SURE.

So don't put words in my mouth

And if you have read all my posts you will see I have never seen a PBM block to compare against.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I'm not 100% sure though.


****EDIT POST****

Grow up this is a technical section. NO BASHING HERE!

Site Admin.
topsportsman1

Tom McDunnah

No bashing here? Then how come you don't delete this whole thread? The whole reason Hink started this thread was to bash PBM about a block he hasn't even seen yet?

Have not bashed the PBM block as others have on the Yellow bullet site and some have accused that the block in the pics I posted and the PBM being the same block. Plus I have had a call from a reputable shop that has both in his shop and said they are the same casting.

AGAIN I HAVE NOTHING BUT ONLY HERE SAY TO COAMPARE AGAINST RIGHT NOW, If a PBM block shows up here I will post pics of the 2 blocks and every one can make their on decision if they are the same blocks or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope when I get a PBM block I have not been lied to about their block not being the same.

Dick Boyer has been asked many times where is this block coming from and who's is machining the castings and no answers so far. And I am very curious myself.

I BELIEVE you are the same poster on speed talk forum yesterday and you didn't get far over there did you and here are some of the quotes from some guys over their.


It is funny that in the begining Carl (CNC BLOCKS) states that he has a PBM block in the shop. And then a in a later post he says he has not yet had the PBM block in his shop.
It seems to me that since he is a Dart WD, that he would try to trash talk a competing block.

See link below for pictures of the block.
http://www.pbm-erson.com/store.php?catId=754

Carl did not say that any you had better duck, ya little pimp.


tom

I think "shorty the pimp" may just be Engine Parts Warehouse and I don't mean EPW.


ShortyThePimp wrote:
It is funny that in the begining Carl (CNC BLOCKS) states that he has a PBM block in the shop. And then a in a later post he says he has not yet had the PBM block in his shop.
It seems to me that since he is a Dart WD, that he would try to trash talk a competing block.

See link below for pictures of the block.
http://www.pbm-erson.com/store.php?catId=754


This kind of nonsense does not belong on this forum. So keep it to yourself. Carl is researching a product to let us and consumers know about the quality of said product. PERIOD!

I think it is curious that a couple guys come on this thread and hammer carl, or someone else and stick up for PBM, but these guys are new to the forum, obviously here to support pbm, nothing wrong with that, but they really are not in tune with the straight shooting nature of speedtalk.. There is not much bs here, and if you post bs, you will likely be called on it. I read this forum a lot, I post a little, cause the stuff I see here is good and not commercially orientated in anyway,, I only post when I feel like I can add somthing to conversation... Whatever the whole story is about the block that carl is working on, it will be told here and told honestly..

He said it might be and that was all!!

We will find out soon enough.

Why would you name you're self shorty in the first place???

I hate to say this but the PBM picture, and the picture that Carl posted look like twin blocks. Look at the web between the freeze plugs and the fact that the by-pass hole is missing in both pictures.


Keith

I don't know why people even question the credibility of Carl....?

I've had the opportunity to only speak with him once on the phone (doubt he remembers).. He was probably one of the most knowledgeable people I have EVER spoke with...

Being my father ran a machine shop for 20+ years and worked for companies such as lockheed martin, Boeing, the NAVY, and 100's of other high quality companies (Who have amazing quality standards),... I believe what Carl says.

I have also worked for a company that made latches (the door handles, glove box latches, and center console) for EVERY car company out there.. So I've seen a part for any car that anyone has owned recently.. I take pride in people like Carl. I don't get why people question what he does. It makes no sense... That's all I have to say..

I used to work side by each with a guy named Carl from up there, could this be same Carl or an overseas cheap copy? :hello2:



Sorry Carl couldn't resist. You guy's will never have anything to worry about when Carl is looking into a subject matter. He takes his work very serious and has a ton of pride on what he sells and don't sell. If it's junk he will call it junk, if it's good he will call it good and recommend it and offer it.

Keep up the good work detective Carl.

I've only spoken to Carl once or twice. I seriously doubt he'll lose any sleep over what anyone thinks of him .

But, since he's probably the first person I've noted that actually digs into the subject instead of repeating what they "heard", I think I'll just keep reading what he posts.


There's no reason to bash anyone....it's just data.

It is funny that in the begining Carl (CNC BLOCKS) states that he has a PBM block in the shop. And then a in a later post he says he has not yet had the PBM block in his shop.
It seems to me that since he is a Dart WD, that he would try to trash talk a competing block.

See link below for pictures of the block.
http://www.pbm-erson.com/store.php?catId=754

Hey Pimpdude,,,
I see you got no where here so you decided to post in the advanced section with your crap too :roll:

You need to do a bit of research before you run off at the mouth about someone & make a complete fool of yourself,,,,

Carl never said he had a PBM block
You might not like the presentation but Carl is a no BS guy & he will call it as he sees it
Doesn't make a bit of difference if it is Dart or a Chinese POS copy if Carl sees a problem he is not shy about bringing it to task

He found a problem with the Dart SHP a while back which was resolved primarily because of Carl's bulldog approach although props must go to Mr. Maskin & the Dart gang for attending to it in a timely manner too, not all companies are going to bother.

Now what do you suppose will happen to any QC problems on this or these Chinese blocks when there are issues?
You think they give a rats ass about their product as long as there are guys like you who are willing to buy it because it is cheap?

As far as the PBM block I don't have a clue if it is the same casting,, but the one post from the PBM representative certainly begs a few clarifications
It would be nice if the questions directed to him were answered.

I don't have a problem with Carl reporting facts, but when he drags other peoples names thru the mud without having "facts" to backup his insinuations I think he goes to far.

Carl has stated that he "believes PBM is selling them under their name too" and that "Wheeler down in Florida is machining them for PBM".

Carl doesn't have any facts to backup these statements.

He did NOT make those statements at FACTS. He said he believed that to be the case, and would look into it. Premature, possibly.... but NOT stating hearsay as fact!

NWHP, you've come to the WRONG place to start drama about Carl. He's well respected, and you are presenting yourself as some sort of drama queen. Carl will report his findings in due time. If you are intelligent, you will wait for him to report his findings before spewing out your own drama and hearsay.

People here don't get caught up in adolescent-like behavior.

my $0.02

I'm new to this forum....Have visited the site off and on for more than a year but never said a word until now.

Things are pushed onto unaware consumers all the time by silver tongue marketing types who want nothing more than to rid people of their hard earned money. In my opinion, CNC should be applauded by every person visiting this site. Why? Because in the end, Lunch-pail Joes (LPJs) like me will hear from the silver tongued salesmen, magazines, other racers and NOT the pros like we are hearing from here. Yes, the buyer should always beware but when these things are out in the market place like Keith said and being polished by greedy marketing types who knows who will greedy and start pushing these things. If it happens, there will be a lot of suffering by LPJs like me and that stinks. There are tons of performance parts in the market today outsourced from outside our boarders that we know are crap but you've got to be pretty far upstream to know when reputable companies are shading your eyes. Without some inside knowledge general consumers (like me) will be nothing more than bird bait to these greedy types. It scares the hell out of me!

Sorry, I know I'm a newbie but I had to say something here because I hate where this road could take us.

Well I guess these quotes say alot about what I have said and my reputation.

I am a WD for Dart and even posted about a problem with their SHP block which shocked alot of people but Dick Maskins is a stand up guy and the problem was resolved the next day.

I have posted problems about many machine shop issues and block issues over the years.

[hink]

Here is an interesting quote from the yellow bullet forum look at the last paragraph HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Here is the link http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?p=2647109



QUOTE=ERV JR;2647506]Ok well I called procomp and I would like to say sorry to the guy who started the thread. They do make a block, he said its a rough bore I think he said a 4.100 but not sure, so its needs to be bored. I questioned the quailty and of course he said it was good. he also said that whe they first came out they had a few places take them from them while @PRI and the shops had them checked and they were fine. he told me to do a search online and i could find out alot about them, I told him I had and that the resultsfrom the searches werent good.I questioned the quailty of a few more products like their 400gph billiet pump and asked if they sol rebuild kits or seals, he said no but they are the same as a grant so order those. I then told him grant wont sell parts. He asked me why I was even calling to ask about there products if i had so many doubts. Simple i said the price is good and i want to know what they are all about. He did adamit that the heads or he said the older cast heads were poor but he now says that they are alot better now.





Also he said that PBM and one other company who I cant remember are actually using or resaling the Procomp block and doing the finish bore. he offered to let me look at one of there blocks, he said just give him 30 min notice so he could pull one and open the crate. I may just take a 30 min drive to see what the hell he has
[/quote]

[topsportsman1]

No bashing here? Then how come you don't delete this whole thread? The whole reason Hink started this thread was to bash PBM about a block he hasn't even seen yet?

Why delete the thread? No need to do that.

I got a question for you.Why did you sign in here with another name?

You did post under another name in this thread right? jp

[hink]

No bashing here? Then how come you don't delete this whole thread? The whole reason Hink started this thread was to bash PBM about a block he hasn't even seen yet?

Why delete the thread? No need to do that.

I got a question for you.Why did you sign in here with another name?

You did post under another name in this thread right? jp

Interesting What was the other name???? Thanks for being on top of things.

Carl

[FullTimeRacing]

there are only a few that it could be

[hink]

there are only a few that it could be

I BELIEVE they have not been to honest with every one so far and have been trying put words in my mouth.

Desprate salesmen will say desperate things to get a sale and so far it looks like I MAYBE right and I said MAYBE.

[MEMRACING62]

x2, I could smell it early on in this thread.

[FullTimeRacing]

I think he was even talking to him self. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

[zipper06]

Dam, im almost sorry i brought up the Chinese block a few weeks ago on another thread (NOT!!!) i was messing with Carl on that thread (just a little) but i have total respect for his ability to check these blocks out. I too have a connection with Dart and i won't say what i paid for my Dart lil M blk. But i will say that the only thing i had to do was bore it and hone the lifter bores, the mains were fine, no line honing. I read the thread on YB and someone mentioned checking the Chinese blk. with a CMM, i gotta say i've never seen a CMM that could check out a blk. and i've been a machinest for over 50 yrs. and we have a $250,000.00 CMM. But that's not the issue here, i want bash anyone's product and i can also buy the Chinese version for less than $1,000.00. With that said, i will wait for the results of the metal test and the probe/location diminsions test on the PBM and the ProComp blk.

JMO

Zip.

[hink]

An interesting post on the speedtalk forum

Here is an interesting quote from the yellow bullet forum look at the last paragraph HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Here is the link http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?p=2647109



QUOTE=ERV JR;2647506]Ok well I called procomp and I would like to say sorry to the guy who started the thread. They do make a block, he said its a rough bore I think he said a 4.100 but not sure, so its needs to be bored. I questioned the quailty and of course he said it was good. he also said that whe they first came out they had a few places take them from them while @PRI and the shops had them checked and they were fine. he told me to do a search online and i could find out alot about them, I told him I had and that the resultsfrom the searches werent good.I questioned the quailty of a few more products like their 400gph billiet pump and asked if they sol rebuild kits or seals, he said no but they are the same as a grant so order those. I then told him grant wont sell parts. He asked me why I was even calling to ask about there products if i had so many doubts. Simple i said the price is good and i want to know what they are all about. He did adamit that the heads or he said the older cast heads were poor but he now says that they are alot better now.





Also he said that PBM and one other company who I cant remember are actually using or resaling the Procomp block and doing the finish bore. he offered to let me look at one of there blocks, he said just give him 30 min notice so he could pull one and open the crate. I may just take a 30 min drive to see what the hell he has
[/quote
Carl I did write that and is was directly from the guy who I spoke with. I also called PBM and they tried to say that is was there block and not a Procomp, he would not actually give any facts just it was not a procomp block.
i think you saved me the 30 min drive to Fontana Ha ha

[hink]

No bashing here? Then how come you don't delete this whole thread? The whole reason Hink started this thread was to bash PBM about a block he hasn't even seen yet?

Why delete the thread? No need to do that.

I got a question for you.Why did you sign in here with another name?

You did post under another name in this thread right? jp


Let me GUESS here jpcomeaux and boostaddict are the same person and I am guessing you live in Florida and I am guessing you maybe work for Wheeler because JP or JT was qouted from wheeler as having their blocks cast in the same place Dart has theirs done.

Am I even warm here or are my guesses way off, Just trying to add everything up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I maybe way OFF as its only a GUESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[boostaddict]

There you go BELIEVING again Hink. I've never even been to speedtalk. And topsportsman1, I'm not jp. This is the only account I've had & the only user name I've had since 2008. If I were jp & I started a new account wouldn't it say joined: xx august 2009?

[hink]

There you go BELIEVING again Hink. I've never even been to speedtalk. And topsportsman1, I'm not jp. This is the only account I've had & the only user name I've had since 2008. If I were jp & I started a new account wouldn't it say joined: xx august 2009?

The IP address don't lie.

[wildbuck]

I talk to Dick Boyer yesterday and I told him a block was being sent to me to probe it out and I would not post the the results on the forums but would email him my findings and to the shop that is sending the block.

And by his response he seemd very interested in what I find as far as loctions and lifter bore angles ETC.

Why wouldn't he be interested? He imported a pile of turd,dumped them on the market,and now he has the best and brightest machinists in the country telling him every flaw in it. Then he'll pick up the phone,call the world's greatest reverse engineering counterfeiters-the Chinese-and tell them how to fix it. Lather,rinse,and repeat a couple times,and all his R&D has been done for him. Now he has a reputable product with a price point lower than the American company (DART) that was copied,and the downward spiral continues.

If it were me,and I would encourage all the engine builders to do the same,I'd just tell 'em it's all wrong,kick it outdoors,and let it rust in the gutter. It's probably going to come about anyway,but I would at least make them work for it rather than just steal it.

That's just my knee-jerk reaction/opinion however-your mileage may vary.

[ss427nova]

You know guy's i appreciate the way your looking at this but did'nt someone have to buy the first Dart block in order to gain it's reputation. Where i live a lot of the guy's use PBM parts in thier dirt cars some turning a little over 9 grand sometimes with no quality or durability issues. Life's full of chances and if this piece is what they say it is i think it might prove to be a more stout piece than the Dart. Being a Manufacturer myself i would'nt risk my reputation that i could put a part on market prematuely and i don't think PBM would either. You know if the piece doe's turn out to be what it is indicated to be it could be a hell of a bargain. I like that all 5 mains are 4 bolt and i like the steel main caps and the fact the cylinder walls are a little thicker as i'm building a super charged engine. Sometimes you have to take the leap of faith in life, here go's

But in the RJ as he states the block has been finished honed, but is a little tight, and takes it on out to 4.155, thats not a hone job, thats boring. And then he says they have been align honed but recommends doing it again?!? That does little to convince me to stick my neck out.

[hink]

QUOTE from speedtalk

I just got done looking at the pbm block. All I will say is,i'm not impressed. It does look like the same block that Carl posted a picture of.
It tested under 15 on the rockwell C scale on my tester

[hink]

Finally did the final probling of the Brand X block

Block datum points in the CNC machine are the cam and crank center line, center line of the bar through the mains and the center of the head dowel on the front of the drivers side block.

Also the block uses the same dowel holes under the fuel pump and starter area which I would say means the blocks are being machined on a track system which is used in high production machining.

One of the biggest problems with the block is from the center of the dowel pin which is the datum point, From there out to the front of the block the demension is suppose to be .845 and on this block its .865 which will move the cam a head in the block .020 and on a flat tappet cam the lobe will not last long riding on the edge of the lobe.

Now if you are using a BHJ lifter bore fixture which referances of the front of the block and going to an lifter .875 lifter bore it will leave a shadow on the rear of each lifter bore which means every lifter bore will need to be bushed even to run a .875 lifter.

The cylinders on the both sides were with in .003 front to rear.

On the even side left to right or intake to exhaust or I call this Y-axis the best was .001 worst was .0038

On the odd side in Y-axis best was .0018 the worst was .0077

Deck heights were on the even side were
low was 9.028
High was 9.038

Deck heights on the odd side were
Low was 9.029
High was 9.032

On the lifter bores we check the angles on all four corners only which should be 41 degrees.

Front lifter bore cylinder one was 40.937
Rear on cylinder seven was 41.026

Front lifter bore cylinder two was 41.020
Rear on cylinder eight was 41.014

I also used a .8425 cutter and machined down appox. .200 down on all four corners

And on cylinder one first lifter bore the cutter cut appox.006 at about 8 O'clock looking from the left side of the block which means the lifter bore was to far back and to far to the inside of the block

On cylinder 7 the rear lifter bore cut only at 12 O'clock looking from the left side of the block meaning the lifter bore was to far to the out side of the block appox. .006

On cylinder number 2 front lifter bore and cylinder number 8 rear lifter bore the cutter was only cutting at 12 O'Clock looking from the left side of the block which means the lifter bore was towards the inside of the block to much appox. .004

Running a roller cam your are dealing with direct center lines and having lifter bores of that far will change your seat to seat timing events.

The other problem I mentioned earlier was the hole through the lifter bore front to rear to and on the front lifter bore even side was the with in .003 of the Dart block but the rear of the hole dropped .0024

Looking at the 2 blocks side by side the hole in the Brand X block looks like the oil hole is 3/16 closer to the bottom of the lifter bore compared to the Dart blocks, The problem being is there is not enough material under the bottom side of the lifter bore or cam tunnel area as I measured from the cam bearing journal to the casting and its .200 different then the Dart block. Which means there maybe a chance of the lifters oil band being exposed when the lifter is on the base cirlce of the cam and more so a bigger problem with a small base circle camshaft.

From here the block is going to an other shop to have a brennel test done.

At this piont I am not going to waste my time check the cam tunnel for its locations as I have spent to much time all ready.

From my findings this block needs a lot of work before it could be used and if its a soft as I think it is there is no cure for that.

[Tod74]

I am just curious....I understand we are talking about a race type block. But how does this thing compare to a production Chevy block as far as being to print? Would the average 010 block do better, worse or about the same as this if you measured it the same way? I am not asking this to make an argument for using this block, I am asking to satisfy my own curiosity as to how close to "right" a factory block is. Nothing more.

[gimmemud]

Thanks for the info Carl.

[hink]

I am just curious....I understand we are talking about a race type block. But how does this thing compare to a production Chevy block as far as being to print? Would the average 010 block do better, worse or about the same as this if you measured it the same way? I am not asking this to make an argument for using this block, I am asking to satisfy my own curiosity as to how close to "right" a factory block is. Nothing more.

Compared to this block the 010 blocks are better as they use the center of the dowel hole under the fuel pump boss to locate everything from front to rear on those blocks and they seem pretty close.

010 very from block to block as far as lifter bore and cylinder placement and cam tunnel placement.

[MEMRACING62]

bump