Hilbourne Injection System

[racroom]

Can anyone tell me the best way to adjust an alcohol injection system. Also the best way to tell if the barrel valve is adjusted right.
Thanks
Ray :?

[davis419b]

Zipper06 will check in soon and he will be able to help you with stack injectors. He is the man !!!!!!!!!!!

[bjuice]

The Hillborn,kinsler, bug,catchers,ron's toilets,,,all of these injections operate from a by-pass system, barrall valves, ( possibly high speed by pass) main jet and port nozzels...all of this will come into play when tunning your set up.....

the by pass system is opposite of what you think the larger the main jet the leaner the fuel flow.....the barrall valve is normally adjusted with a leakdown tester..example mine was set at 75%...it all depends on your set up..if i were you i would call Hillborn and speak with their PRO and see what he says about your intitial tune up..i would write down his info and get on the phone and call Jim at enderle Injection in California...
once you get them close its nothing but a matter of moving a main jet either up or down (lean/rich)...
but it can be really puzzling from the very start...

this is my experience from injections....once Jim helped me get close with my main jets,nozzles,barrall valve..the tunning was a CINCH...

i would also recommend exhaust gas senors,,on the header primaries,,they have a probe that you drill a 1/4 hole in primary and it band clamps on or you can weld in the Bung type..i used the computech in the past....you WILL need to know what your exhaust gases are at WOT to know how rich or how lean you really are.


good luck.

Brian

[racroom]

This is the first of these type system that I have ever run . How do you check the leakdown on the barrel valve? I talked to Hilbourne in Cali and they said that all my number pretty much matched up for the alcohol system. On this one when I start it there is fuel coming out of the zoomie headers, what is that to much fuel and how do i correct it.
Thanks
Ray

[bjuice]

i would call them up and suggest what type of leakdown they recommend with their set up with your set up..i said call Jim but more i think of it you need to call hillborn back...they should be able to tell you more then they did before..
raw alcohol coming out of the zoomies could be a numbers of things.
-#1- THE 3 way shut off not working properly or your not leaning out the motor enough before killing the switch..this is done By cutting off the fuel manully with the 3 way shut off, motor running just when you hear the motor idel up kill the switch..your burnning off the excess fuel in the cylinders when doing this.IF YOU DO NOT DO THIS then your gonna have raw fuel dumped into your cylinders and when you start the car its gonna thro it out the zoomies like a rain shower.remember you have a manual fuel pump and it will pump fule as long as you motor is spinning over.

#2- i DO NOT SEE how hillborn could honeslty tell you your leakdown is set proper if they did not set it themselves....check out their web page it will show you a pic of the leakdown tester...

#3- you could be just too FAT (RICH) ..meaning too big of nozzles,too rich of main jet...and could have too big of pump..i ran into this when i placed a 110 pump and needed an 80a..

this subject is wide open and you have symptoms of all the above to me,

.as i said they are a bitch to get set up but when you do they are really tame..thats why you need someone such as JIm from enderle that has seen almost everykind of injection come thru...he can get you very close 1st time out..

but before you go doing any of this..ask yourself how you are starting and shutting down this system ...this is a big key in how much fuel is in the exhaust tubes without changing the world..

MY experience here only.

Brian

[dragsterdoug]

The best advice I can give you is to join Harvey Race Engines .com
(hre.com)

Best $40.00 you could invest. I have run a Hilborn inj. for 20 years. Don't be scared of it. Don't listen to every Tom, Dick or Harry that comes along.
On HRE everyone is helpful and has a lot of knowlege. No idiots allowed.
They don't knock ya for asking elementry questions.
Also, there is a guy on there (Spud) who has a business setting up inj and magnetos. Real good, honest also. I had my stuff flowed last winter and was treated fairly. You should really have the system flowed so you know where you are at. ithout having it flowed you are in the dark.
feel free to contact me for more info.
dragster doug

[davis419b]

What type of air induction system do you have ( stack injectors or a hat)?What is the history on this system? Did you just buy this set up or did you buy a car with this set up on it? I have seen many people total screw the barrel valve up trying to set it by ear. Bjuice is right you cant go any farther till you get the barrel valve set properly. I always ran a Rons system. The only problem i ever had with it is it had a checkball valve in the return line which kept the fuel from bleeding off from the barrel valve and lines which stuck closed one time and would not return fuel which made the engine go dead rich. If the barrel valve is too rich you will be dumping fuel out of the headers. Dont be intimadated by the barrel valve if you buy a leakdown tester and use it correctly you will only have to set it one time on this combination. After that you put the right nozzels in there and all you need is a jet for hot weather bad air and one for cool weather good air. The EGT if you get one will tell the exhaust temp and based on that you will know what jet to run. Sorry for such a long answer but that is really all there is to it. Its simple once the barrel valve is correct! Oh buy the way put the 40 bucks into a leakdown tester it will get you much farther along!

[zipper06]

Can anyone tell me the best way to adjust an alcohol injection system. Also the best way to tell if the barrel valve is adjusted right.
Thanks
Ray :?

You didn't say if you're running stacks or a hat????,

But the initial setting for stacks on the leakdown is 24lbs./% on a hat it should be set at 30lbs/%, and you adjust down from there, we're running stacks on (4) 434"'s and a toilet bowl on another engine and all the setting vary a little, but most run good at 21 PSI/% leakdown, my bowl runs best at 18 PSI/%. I start with the initial setting and adjust down until the idle is right and when the throttle is cracked there's no stutter. In fact a lot of times i don't even use the leakdown tester. In a day 40 yrs. ago we didn't know what a leakdown tester was. Now if you're running blown that's a totally difference animal
A lot of people make the mistake of not running an idle bypass valve, that's what the hole in front of the barrel valve is for. The by-pass valve comes with a 15lb spring and as soon as you crack the throttle at 15% it closes off the by-pass hole in the barrel valve, same as a hat. Most of the pumps produce 100PSI at 4000 pump RPM. The larger the pump IE 80A vs 110 the 110 has more volume but can easily be run but will require a larger return pill. I run the 110 on my blown alky motor, but DSR's on the stacks.

Really need more imfo on what your system is, stacks,hat,bowl, pump size nozzle size, cu.in.

Just my opinion

Zip.

[dak697]

Is there anyone that runs an injected program that you know or kind of know in your area?

If you can talk with them to go over the basics, show you hands on examples.

Once someone shows you the basics then when you start looking for help, the suggestion makes sense..Good Luck

[racroom]

Is there anyone that runs an injected program that you know or kind of know in your area?

If you can talk with them to go over the basics, show you hands on examples.

Once someone shows you the basics then when you start looking for help, the suggestion makes sense..Good Luck
It is a hat with 2 big butterflies and after I get it adjusted then I need to work on a problem about the gas pedal being so hard to press down. With it not running the pedal can be pressed with one finger, with it running you gave to kick it with your heel just to get it going.

[zipper06]

(It is a hat with 2 big butterflies and after I get it adjusted then I need to work on a problem about the gas pedal being so hard to press down. With it not running the pedal can be pressed with one finger, with it running you gave to kick it with your heel just to get it going.)


This helps,
you should have a wide open and a closed throttle stop independent of the barrel valve and you need to set the idle throttle stop, with a .005 feeler gage between the butterflys and the injection opening to keep the butterflys from from locking up when closed, also set the WOT stop to keep it from going over center when open. i set all the butterflys on a stacks with a .002 feeler gage. on my blown alky engine i set the idle stop with a .005 feeler gage and it's a 3 hole buzzard catcher.
You may be closing off all the air except what can be comming in through shaft bores to the engine, this would definately make it idle too rich.

Just my opinion

Zip.

[dak697]

I think Zip is right. If the butterflies are not set right, when the motor is running they maybe pulled shut. I have seen the same problem on stack injection.

[racroom]

How well does this system work with all the pro electronics? I will be bracket racing and was wondering when on the transbrake and leaving at 4500 rpm's the butterflies will be wide open will this put to much fuel in the motor?

[racroom]

When you were talking about the clearance on the butterflies you said .005 would be ok, does that mean all the way around or just at the top and bottom. I checked mine and about 1/3 of the top and about that at the bottom was .oo5 and from the to the butterflie shaft there was no clearance at all. What do you think and what should I do if there is suppose to be some. If needed I can order some from Hilbourne for about $6.50 each.

[racroom]

Looks like I an getting somewhere with the adjusts on the system now. :D

[mokie48]

assuming your set up has all right componets lined up, pump size, nossels, correct high seed jet. remember your barrel valve controls the idle richness, there is also an idle pop of spring usually, but your barrel valve will make idle fat or lean. On cold start sometime you may want to lean out this after inital start to warm up motor some guys will adjust manual shut down valve to do this. After it is warmed up you want to lean it out, you may have to back down idel set to lower rpms, untit it does not stuble on throttle wack, if it stumbles, make it fatter. fuel injection is kinda like making love to woman you have to make it happy and the benifit are there. On other thing you might consider if you can run electronice or transbrake, put a throttle limiter in the linkage that engagen when trans brake is applyed, set to desired stall rpm. Get on that has a adjustable air bleed so on release it will open throttle as fast or as slow that you adjust that air bleed. Much easier on converter and you wont blow tires off on bad track condition. You main jet controls the high speed side, forget high speed by pass until you get it prety well dialed in.

[OneBadGMC]

Best money you will spend in your education process:

http://www.racecarbook.com/

Bob's books are simply awesome. He lays it out in simple terms. Most of the examples are supercharged, but all of the principles and formulas will work with F/I or N/A.

[zipper06]

Like OBG says, self education is the best money ever spent.

I've been running blown and injected or injected for over 40 yrs. and in the beginning i'm not going to say it was easy, but within a yr. one day i woke up and slapped myself in the head and said DUH!!! how cool is that. now it's easier than tripping over a log. It took me a yr. to set a world record in 1966 in A/Modified Sports and i never looked back, be it blown alcohol,blown gas, or injected on gas or alcohol, it's just a learning curve and for me they are every bit as easy as carberators.

JMO

Zip.

[davis419b]

LISTEN TO ZIPPER 06 HE KNOWS !!

[bjuice]

Like OBG says, self education is the best money ever spent.

I've been running blown and injected or injected for over 40 yrs. and in the beginning i'm not going to say it was easy, but within a yr. one day i woke up and slapped myself in the head and said DUH!!! how cool is that. now it's easier than tripping over a log. It took me a yr. to set a world record in 1966 in A/Modified Sports and i never looked back, be it blown alcohol,blown gas, or injected on gas or alcohol, it's just a learning curve and for me they are every bit as easy as carberators.

JMO

Zip.

Zip why don't you re-post your world record certificate from the 60's..you did it a long time ago on the old board...

its cool to post this type thing......
Zip has been doing this racing game since most people on here was just a gleem in your parents eye...and parents,parents eye....lol.........

just sharing the luv zIP.

Brian

[lively]

OH --THE WARMTH :lol: :lol: ---ZIP GOT A GOOD REPORT :lol: ---POST THE RECORD / I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT /BE PROUD OF IT!!!!:shock: :lol: :lol:--LIVELY

[zipper06]

You guys are making me sound old, even embarressing me :oops: :oops: but here goes.


Record, in Il.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/5/12/12/t_Recordm_3c119b2.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/5/12/12/f_Recordm_3c119b2.jpg&srv=img26)

While living in bJ country when he was a kid also

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/5/12/12/t_shootoutWarm_7358d76.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/5/12/12/f_shootoutWarm_7358d76.jpg&srv=img28)

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/5/12/12/t_shooutout2m_130f2c2.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/5/12/12/f_shooutout2m_130f2c2.jpg&srv=img03)

My present day blower mtr. 355, 1471 littlefield, buzzard catcher. I'm behind the camera and there is a valvle cover gasket leak, easy fix.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3005024568453485455

Hope you like :)

Zip.

[lively]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEETI THINK IF YOU PUT NEW PLUGS IN IT / IT WONT IDLE SO ROUGH :lol: :lol: :lol: ===I LIKE IT----LIVELY--THANKS ALOT

[lookingaround]

:cry: it didnt play for me :cry:

[zipper06]

:cry: it didnt play for me :cry:


Try again later, maybe too many people looking at one time.

I just played it.

Zip.

[OneBadGMC]

Neat vid... If you up your main jet return pressure a little bit the idle will smooth out.

Here's my blown beater: http://www.onebadgmc.com/images/OneBadGMC.wmv

[bjuice]

both Zip and Gmac...Cool A$$ motors..mkes me miss my blown alcohol injected motor...

way to go guys...RAW !

Brian

[suicidebomb]

Get the racecar book that OBG talked about. Mr. Szabo explains things so that even I can understand it! I run a stack system on a 406 smallblock Chevy with good results. Get a leakdown tester, also a set of bypass springs from Hilborn would be helpful. I can tell you at any given run what my A/F is. Call Hilborn, and talk to their tech guys, they will have some questions for you about your set-up, so be prepared with barrel valve leak down,nozzle size, pump, etc. They are VERY good at fixing problems over the phone, I cannot praise them highly enough! When you get it set and working right, it is very easy to tune and a joy to work with. Also, I would get an air density gauge from Speedway or Kinsler, it is much easier to tune with than a weather station and much cheaper. suicidebomb