which head? pontiac 23 degree by hrd or brodix 11 x cnc keit

[badbug3]

Which would be the better power making head. A set of sbc pontiac heads done by HRD for hendrick motorsports or a set of keith craft 11 x sp cnc brodix. Although i will be using these on a blown application, still i have a chance to buy the pontiac heads with big block jesel rockers machined down for the sbc hendrick motorsport nascar application with titanium valves and hendrick valve covers to clear the larger jesel rockers and a fully ported and prepared by hrd bowtie intake manifold. It will cost a little more to get the brodix with regular t and d rockers and it will only have stainless valves and no manifold. Which would be the better choice? The pontiac heads cost $6000 to hendrick i was told with rockers and manifold several years ago . It was one of the last sets prepared by hrd for hendrick before the 18 degre stuff came out. They have only 50 passes on them in a drag monza. They ran 8.50's in a monza with 388 cubes and kinsler injectors on alky. Whats your opinion?

[bigg]

11x

[cboggs]

The new brodix 11X will be miles past the old nascar stuff.
Al at HRD does nice work, .. so this is in no way saying anything
bad about him.

More important, . . what is the engine combo, engine size, .. bore stroke, etc.
you need to match the proper cylinder head to the application, ..

Brodix castings hold up very well under extreme use, ..
but for most blower applications I use Dart heads, .. and for a small
block I'd use the Dart 220 with spread port exhaust.

Curtis

[badbug3]

not looking to go overboard on boost but looking for somewhere around 900 hp with bug catcher and 8-71 alky blower. These hrd pontiac heads really look nice and those hd rocker arms do too. Compression to be around 11-1 before boost. I had no idea about the flow ability of the hrd pontiac 23 degree heads compared to the 11x spread port brodix heads.

[slowman]

i wouldn't run the pontiac stuff on my lawnmower!!

[perfconn]

If they are really the 867 Pontiac heads they were made by Brodix and are actually the 10X castings.You need to verify what they actually are because most Cup teams were laying those heads over to 18* before the real 18* stuff came out.They may be a killer set of heads.

[billhendren]

You may want to look at the SB2.2 stuff,with the correct heads and flow numbers in the low 400 range you can make your 900 H.P. without the blower.The 8-C Hendrick head has a 322 C.C. int runner and would work well in a blower,turbo or N20 application.Bill

[badbug3]

I have to have the torque to make my boat go. the blower makes the torque down low to get boat moving. I doubt the 900 hp normaly aspirated motor would have enough torque to work properly regardless of how much hp it had. Also i dont have to run such a large cam with the blower to make the power, nor do i need to run such a high compression. remember this is a dual purpose boat and maintenance is an issue. I also have one gear and no way to leave line except on motor power alone. No torque converter or stall situation to deal with. I need the torque at 3500 rpms.

[billhendren]

I wasn't referring to engine alone,if the engine has cyl heads capable of making 900 H.P. without the blower with the blower you can get by with very low boost.with a blown engine you can go way up on cam without loosing torque,we use way more cam in our blown stuff than normally aspirated.Bill

[slowman]

there's know way in hell i'm running a power adder with the old nascar 867 pontiac head. you go ahead and use them and find out the hard way. like cboggs says there not even close.

[perfconn]

Not close to what ?

[slowman]

the pontiac heads to the new 11x that what. just like cboggs says above. the heads need to be made for application so buying some old n/a stuff is very wrong to do. but like you said before perfconn i don't know anything.

[perfconn]

Your right you don't.You have no idea whats been done to the 867 heads or what they flow.Neither the 867,the 11X or the SB2.2 are made for a blower motor in a boat.Your application specific statement doesn't hold water.

[slowman]

your funny so your saying curtis boggs doesn't know what he's saying either? i would be very careful with your next answer because curtis has forgot more then you will ever know. good luck with this one. before you answer i would go to curtis web site before you make yourshelf look anyworse. Race Flow Development
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com

[perfconn]

You have no idea what i know.You repeat other people and do not repeat it right.He asked for the mans info, you didn't, you just made a broad statment.

[slowman]

o ok lol. now you don't have any comment on them.lol before i was copying and know i'm just misquoting others. you have me all figured out i should be ashamed lol.

[perfconn]

If you will go back and read you will see I already made my comment concerning the guys choice of 2 heads.You me or noone else has any idea how good or bad those 867 heads are without at least looking at them.

[slowman]

i do agree there 100% perfconn. but i have seen alot of problems with the old 867 castings with power adders and would stay away from them if i was going to buy something. i have used them in a n/a motor and made good power but there are so many better heads for the same price or even cheaper that i would trust over them in a blower engine..

[cboggs]

You guys need to keep me out of your arguments,
especially if you can't quote me correctly.

I never said anything negative about the Pontiac
heads other then I would use a NEW cylinder head over something
I didn't know the history of. At least that's what I meant.

Perf Con is right, those heads where made by Brodix and could
be a very good head, .. but they need to be looked at by a professional
to make sure they aren't junk too. I used to build Cup & Busch heads
in the 80's and have seen plenty of junk as well as some really good stuff.

900 hp is being talked about like it's not much, .. 900 hp is a
bunch of power and you need good parts if you want it to live.

I can't really see using an SB2.2 in this application, .. it'll
take an experienced engine builder to work out a proper dish
piston to work with a chamber that isn't great for boost or NOS.

But, my comments are simply what they are, .. please don't
speak for me.

Curtis

[billhendren]

We have had good success with a reverse dome on our SB2.2 turbo engines.Bill

[cboggs]

We have had good success with a reverse dome on our SB2.2 turbo engines.Bill

Bill, ..

Yea we've done that on our turbo and NOS engines, .. worked good.

The SB2.2 chambers are still are hard to tune ( for my customers any way )
even with the reverse dome so we've had the 15* engines run
a tick better on the NOS cars.

Curtis