(( WARNING )) DYNOFLO ENGINES BAD DEALINGS

[fastbowtie]

Hi Guy's Take a look at the pics below and take a guess at what happened.
I will give out more info and pics as the post progresses .
First clue is its out of a Large cube SBC Good Luck and I cant wait to here your answers.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0821.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0827.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0826.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0834.jpg

[lookingaround]

clearance problems is my first guess

[jayss10]

looks like a clearence problem or related .......my guess

[ash]

Let's see..... either a rod-to-block clearance discrepancy,or... someone forgot to torque some rod bolts? :oops:

[slowman]

i would think if some one put the engine togather right with enough clearance from the rods to block and torqued everything right it did't hit the block.that would be a rookie mistake.the only why the rod makes contact with something is the main caps broke or block,or crank but that's rare.if the piston broke there wouldn't be the big contact spot because aluinium woulnd't do that to steel and no marks on the small end of rod.so does it come down to the roller lifter broke and pined between the rod and the block on down stroke and pulled the rod apart then the other bolt hit.the bearing in the pic don't have anything to do with it.the bearing slide after the rod was contacted.the rod was number 2,4,6,8.i will have more info if you take pics of cam and lifters.jeff

[RonOwensRacing]

I'm with you i think lifter or oil pump broke off depending on what pump you ran i have seen some of the melling small block pumps brake also have seen the tip of a roller rocker brake and get caught in there to.

[fastbowtie]

First Clue It had 60psi at 2000 rpm until it locked up

[zipper06]

If's it's out of the 454" motor, i know you've already been running it, so i would say the oil pump quit, if not that a ring or ring land broke and the cylinder seized the piston causing the rod damage. That is if this is the only culprit/damage. could have broken a valve or spring, but that would be my last choice.

Zip.

[fastbowtie]

Partially rite Zip out of a 454 sbc Keep tryin
but the 2nd CLUE It only had 8 minutes run time on the motor

[slowman]

i would think the rod bolts or main caps were left loose.i don't what to be a ass hole but ho ever put the bottom end togather screwed up. this is a classic case of OOPS i was drinking some beer. if the treads weren't pulled out and the bolts aren't broken then the bolts were never tighten.i have been building engine for 20yrs and have seen this before.good luck jeff

[ilovedragracing]

Hi Guy,s Take a look at the pics below and take a Guess at what happened
heres my guess... something broke.. i win

[Racing1968]

I would guess only one bolt torqued

[slowman]

looks like a eagle rod,send the rod back to eagle and they will tell you why it faild or send it to arp they would what to see if was there stuff or the builder. they can tell you if the bolt had the right torque on it.if someone built it for you just call and show them the parts with all the pics any one with half a brain can see what happened.i hope ho ever is a standup guy and stands behind there work.it sucks i have made the same mistake and i have been building engines for almost 20yrs.good luck jeff

[bbchevy]

ROD BOLT Failure!
Later
G 8)

[gimmemud]

Looks like the rod cap is on wrong way.

[bbchevy]

All depends what you Call,THE WRONG WAY??????????? :shock:
Most likely them,Bearing Tabs should be Oppossed!Not mated.But,maybe thats 1 Of them SPEED Secrects?
Sorry about your LOSSES?I'm sure the Crank took some BEATING also?
Later
G 8)

[mcracecars]

what have we got here.
-rod itself looks ok on the small end
-rod does not look to be bent.
-rod bolts look beat but not broke or stripped
-rod cap looks bent
-lots of oil pressure.
-motor ran for short time.

I would say rod bolts not torked, backed out and hit the block somewere, bending the cap.
The poor bearing did not have a chance. :cry:

[fastbowtie]

Ok Guy's, No more clues.
I will let the pics do the talking.
Now tell me what you think. REMEMBER, only 8 minutes run time!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0788.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0801.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0808.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0820.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0791-1.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0792.jpg

[slowman]

i'm raising my hand,i know i know the pan jumped up and loosed the rod bolts.just like the tree walked into the road i hit.i would blame the guy in the ugly shirt he looks guilty.just kidding it still sucks. :cry: :shock:

[fastbowtie]

Yes you are correct, the rod bolts were hand tight ALL 16 OF THEM .
One step completely missed.
The mains were torqued correctly.
A large engine builder built this short block that deals on Racing Junk.
Im not naming any names just yet, but I should after what he said to me over the phone and what he has said about me in emails to other people.
Bottom line is he has already stated that it is not his fault OR responcibility.
Hmm Does that sound correct to you :?:
I will settle this if he can talk properly to me & the owner of the engine.
He can PM me Before it escallates into a very major issue.
Every one that knows me knows I'm straight up and have no reason to lie about this. I diddn't build or modify the bottom end .

[slowman]

the guy is a ass hole does he think ups or fedx loosed them rookie mistake.they must have the cleaning person build engines know.it's never the builder that makes the mistake.i'm sure he gave you the we check everything twice speech bull shit.it must have been dollar beer night at the bar.it must be a back door builder because anyone that knows what he is doing would stand behide there work.the easy way out for the guy is to say you did it but if you never touched the bottem end how the hell does all the rod bolts come loose they don't someone left them loose and if the guy is that dumb then there is no hope.you can buy a tractor and go pull his head out of his ass.jeff

[chevguy65]

Well, I know who and I know what.....and I must say it is a shame when all you get are lame excuses instead of being a stand up Company and doing the RIGHT thing.

It seems that customer service is a thing of the past, now if you own a business it is ok to screw customers just to keep your pockets lined.

Having been screwed by two so called engine builders this makes me literally sick to my stomach.

Fast, I hope this Company pulls their head out and does right by you!!!

[3dracing]

That's why we build our own. That way when something happens and every once in a while it does we can only blame ourselves.


Steve

[oncearacer52]

Nothing a Dart Little M block won't fix. Bearing webbing, unless it is due to a mistake being made in assembly. Such as rod or rod being put in with the chamfer being turned around. OOPS I just seen a second page..lol WOW what a mistake. Engine builders are like Drag Strip operators...... They don't give back money for any reason.

[lotsof454sss]

Ok folks..Ya'll all know I am not an engine builder, how do you know..
Well I just told you, but if I were in the business I would take the same attitude I take in my business adventures. The customer is always right. Even I can tell what the problem was and I would ask the builder of this motor only one question. Why would I sabatage my own engine :?: If your so damn smart answer that one for everyone that reads these posts. I got a feeling this is one of the PACE AMERICAN TRAILER threads all over again and I know for a fact they don't want to be in the spot light again on this site, as it costs too much $$$$ to get plastered on here for your mistakes. So anyway, good luck Donn dealing with who ever it is that didn't torque the damn bolts.............

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/PocketDominatrix/Cat%20Macros/torquewrench.jpg

[fastbowtie]

I want to thank everyone for their answers & support .
Now my next question is, if you were the engine builder after seeing all that I have shown what would you do for the owner :?:
Believe me the engine builder has seen double + what I have posted here.
Also, if you were the owner of the motor What would you expect for compensation :?:
As you see I'm trying to be more than fair about this whole nightmare.
Im giving the builder till Friday to PM me & try to work something out.
At this point the words that were exchanged between us are a lesser problem, my main concern is that the owner of the motor is happy.
Do you think thats fair :?:

[etbird]

Yes!

[slowman]

i own a shop and build engines.the only thing to do is send the customer a short block.with the information highway nowadays it could be very bad for a biz to screw someone.word will spread faster then a cali wild fire and the owner will end up taking it in the ass.with proof and the pics it looks to be a open and shut case.without the bolts being broke or the threads being sheard off it couldn't be more clear.but if your a back yard builder then i guess you wouldn't know what went wroung.it is to clear to me that the guy that built the lower end doesn't have a clue.this is the stuff that could ruin a biz quick.i can't beleave the owner would take a gamble with his biz not to make it right.all you have to do is stop 4-5 people to start digging into the pockets of the owners.that's easy just think about hundreds or thousands then the door will be shut.good luck with the guy he's going to be on the fence and could fall off fast.

[lotsof454sss]

I think we all agree that who ever was suppose to torque the rod caps failed to do so for what ever reason. Based on that then who ever got paid to do it should assume the responsibility and make it right.

I also think this way of dealing with the problem has been more than far and the builder should consider himself lucky to get a chance to make it right and to show all he will stand behind his work even if he has to take it in the shorts. I know it hurts but it is the "best business" decision.

If the responsibile person thinks I am wrong that is ok, but again I say, ask PACE AMERICAN TRAILERS if they want on here in the BAD SPOTLIGHT again :?: I think not :!: :!: :!:

[lively]

I SECOND THAT STATEMENT!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[davis419b]

A very similar thing happened to me recently. I bought a R/M 565 HP from a friend of mine with 150 runs on it. My engine builder replaced the lifters and springs and i ran it the rest of last year. I had it completly freshened over the off season. I put in in the car, took it to the track to test and on thr first burnout it blew the oil filter down and oiled down the track. When i got back to the pits i took the oil filter off and the adapter was loose, he had put GM factory bolts in and they are to long for a Dart Big M block which has blind holes in it. It dumped over 5 quarts of oil. I called right then, sunday afternoon, to get his opinion on what to do. Even though he built the motor and he put the adapter in he told me i should have checked those bolts. All i wanted to know is what i should do. I always do whatever my engine builder tells me because i am not an engine builder. So i put a lock washer on both of them, changed the oil & filter and made 4 more runs that day. Went back next Sunday and put 5 more runs on it. On the 5th run when it shifted in to high gear it blew up. It had kicked two rods out of the pan, broke the bottom skirts out of 5 & 6, trashed 3 pistons, bent 2 exhaust valves and burnt the S$$T out of 5&6 rod journals. What do you thunk he should have done about it. I am very curiuos what yall think Thanks Don

[slowman]

419'the first thing is i hope he isn't you engine builder anymore.then i would pack all the shit up and drive over to his shop throw the shit at his head.how do engine builders sleep at night knowing they suck.it must be the dollar beer night every night in some places.because i couldn't sleep at night know that my shop screw someone's hard earned money out of them.i don't know how to say this any clearer. don't use a shop that doesn't have a dyno and have them include the dyno time in the price.if someone gets a motor from me they get video and dyno sheet and full build sheet with all parts and clearances.i brake the engine in for about 1hr before we make power pulls.
.if something brakes it brakes right in front of me a guess what i have to fix it not the customer.NEVER USE A SHOP WITHOUT A DYNO.NEVER TAKE THE ENGINE OUT OF A SHOP WITHOUT BEING RAN ON THE PUMP.

[fastbowtie]

Sorry to here for your loss on your 565 Don.
I have a few :?:s
#1 What happened to the original bolts :?:
#2 Did your builder replace your original oil filter adapter with another one :?:
#3 What was your oil pressure before you shut the engine down after it blew the oil filter :?:
#4 Did you receive the engine from the builder with the oil filter on & the motor Primed :?:
#5 Was your engine builder aware of the size difference of the adapter bolts prior to you receiving the engine back from him :?:
#6 If local, Did the engine builder offer to check out the bottom end after it popped the filter or did he tell you it would be fine with the repairs you made:?:
I know its alot of questions but all of them could be important on the final outcome of your delema.
I know it's not the answers you were looking for but it's hard for me to give you a honest answer with out gathering as much info as I can get with out sounding like I'm on a Witch hunt for engine builders due to this nightmare Im dealing with at this time .
Look on the brite side I'll bet your guy diddn't call you uneducated or that you must really suck at being a mechanic like my builder has said about me .

[3dracing]

On the sheet that comees with a Dart block it tells you the GM bolts are too long. It says the two oil filter adapter attaching bolts should be 1 1/4 (1.250) O.A. length. This will allow 1/2" (.500) of thread into the block. This is SHORTER than the stock Chevrolet bolts. THIS MUST BE ADHERED TO. The engine builder shouldhae noticed this.

Steve

[fastbowtie]

As you can tell, I'm trying to be very fair with the engine builder.
I purchased this shortblock and all he has to do is PM me to straighten this out & make this go away. He has untill tomorrow night around 7:30 pm becauase that's about the time we first contacted him before we even pulled the engine out of the car. He has all the pics and Im sure he has read all the post,s

SCOTT S. Im giving you a chance here.
If You cant see that Im trying to give you a fair chance then I guess we will have to get the tractor out.

In the mean time can all of the Racing Junk guys give me some ideas of where else to post this & possible assistance.
I have a few already But lets Show Mr Scott S. that he cannot treat people/Customers this way even if he feels superior to them & tries to belittle & trash talk them.

So send me some ideas.

Thanks,
Donn Waters

[slowman]

i can post on all the dragways websites.you can go to the nhra and ihra,nmca psca and some others i'm forgeting webs and post his ass there.i go to about 15 tracks a yr and i will spread the word just send me all the e-mails and pics and copy this forum and i will hand them out at the tracks.i love bring down a ass holes that don't stand behide there work.i'm sure with the amount of people that visit this site that it wont take long before you digging deep into there pockets.we have already took down one engine builder here in mich and a chassie guy for the same shit so one more will be fun.

[fast1971chevelle]

well evedentally this so called engine builder is a low life piece of shit!!!!!!
it isn't like the motor has had the balls ran off of it, it was mearly started for break in and the damn rods fell out of it!!!!!, i think i know what happened he did torque all the rod bolts but they apparently viberated loose during shipping...damn them fed ex trucks.....lol......if this asshole knows what is good for business he will completely make it right with you, you have been more than fair with him, you have not came on here and told everyone not to buy his products or even mentioned who this idiot is, but i tell you what if he don't make it right with you. you let me know i am a member of almost all of the drag racing sites from California to New York and i will post on all their boards how this person conducts business. now Mr Asshole make right your wrong doing and put in place a quality dept at your little back yard shop.............................................M ike

[tweekd]

Godragracing.com has a lot of listeners.

Good Luck. My engine is alomost done from the builder and now im scared. I'll be checking bolts :wink:

[tweekd]

Was this a mail order engine from an Ebay type company or what?

[fastbowtie]

Well its now 7:34 and I haven't recieved A PM from the builder.
But he did talk to the owner and came to somewhat of a settlement.
However I personally feel the builder is getting the better end of this deal just getting a new block NO RODS, NO CRANK, NO PISTONS. Just a block, but he did say that if we would ship the shortblock back he would rebuild it.
After how he has treated this whole affair that isn't an option. But at least he made the offer for damage control.
The new shortblock will be built at Southern Style Racing Engines.
So the owner of the motor is happy for getting a new block and has full confidence in George Pills the owner of SSRE.

Now for my end of this. I will say I'm sorry to Scott Slotten of Dynoflo for calling him an A$$h&#e over the phone but he was yelling at me at the time.
But Scott, you still had No right to call a customer Uneducated & talk down to me.
Also, I don't really care for the Bashing I took in an email you responded to from a fellow racer.
I can post it if you like Or you Mr Slotten of DynoFlo can appoligize To me.Im extending my hand, the rest is up to You.


Donn Waters

[bigdaddy2607]

i hade a feeling you were going to name dyno-flo[ scott] i hade a 434 built by him they sent me a large base circle cam with it . not knowing it at the time tried to install it, it was hitting on the rods. so i called him about it and it turned out that i was the asshole. we had some words, i bought a small bc came from comp. dyno flo took 3 months to credit my credit card. when i put motor in car got everything hooked up ready to run poured collant into it it started leaking out of a couple freeze plugs. had to take it all back out to replace those. its been a few years now only about couple thousand miles thow, it seems to be ok. i would never buy another motor from them though...........ken

[Dewcustom]

Man am I glad I read this I have been dealing with dyno flo and getting ready to have them build me a $10,000 aluminum short block but I have been hesitant just on acount of the high price tag. I think I will look else where.

[lotsof454sss]

Man am I glad I read this I have been dealing with dyno flo and getting ready to have them build me a $10,000 aluminum short block but I have been hesitant just on acount of the high price tag. I think I will look else where.

ooohhhhhhhhh now that had to hurt......"Thou shall reap what thou sow"...

[bigdaddy2607]

mr dew custom. if i were you i would let him know the reason why. if everyone does this maybe he will have better customer relations and have some kind of quality control.......ken

[etbird]

Good point, tell them why you nixed the deal.

[lively]

I JUST WANT TO KNOW ONE BIG THING!!!!---IF THE RODS CAME LOOSE THEN WHY IN THIS WORLD WOULD YOU JUST REPLACE THE BARE BLOCK!!!!THE RODS WEREN'T DAMAGED/ OR THE CRANK WAS NOT SCORED OR NICKED/ OR THE PISTONS WERE NOT SCRAPED ON THE SIDES/ OR DID THE PISTONS HIT THE VALVES- :evil: :evil: ---COME ON GUYS -LETS GET REAL AND DOWN TO EARTH :? :? ------THE LOWLIFES OWE AN ENGINE ON THIS DEAL- :lol: -PERIOD--AND IF THEY GET AWAY WITH IT THEN THE BUYER IS TO BLAME FOR NOT GOING AFTER THEM!!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:MAN--I FEEL BETTER NOW :roll: :roll:

[chevguy65]

Lively,

I totally understand where your coming from, but on the other side of the coin, I can also understand the cut and run idea.

Sometimes it is better to cut your losses than it is to fight with a POS like Scott.

I commend Donn for the way he handled this thread.

I will say, I will never use dynoflo and if ever asked I will surely let anyone know about Donn's experience as well as the others that have posted about dynoflo (google it) you will be surprised at the amount of unhappy people there are with Scott and dynoflo.

[davis419b]

Iagree with Chevyguy, its better to get something rather than nothing!!!!!!

[davis419b]

Fastbowtie, here are your answers on my engine. #1Dont know what happened to original bolts that Reher/Morrison put in, they must have been the only 2 bolts left on the tray when he got done assembling the motor and he didnt realize what they were for and grabbed two gm bolts.I know for a fact the adapter is the last thing he puts on. #2 He did not put a new adapter on he used the same one. #3 Did not see the oil pressure before i shut it off, after my burnout when i started backing up and saw oil i immediatly shut it off got out to see what the problem was. #4 The filter was not on the engine nor was it primed, it never is and that has always been ok. #5 I dont think he was aware of any bolt size difference or he would have put the right size in. He is always pretty anal about everything. I have used this guy for 3 years, thats why i used him! #6 His shop is 15 minutes from my house or the track. Icalled him as soon as i got back to the pits for advice not to bi$$h, he first words were i should have tightened those bolts my self (with an attitude) and gave me no advice! In my opinion i payed him to build the motor and i should not have to go back and tighten any bolts.

[fastbowtie]

Davis You are correct if you paid him to build the motor there should not be any reason for you to have to check any bolt after recieving the motor unless stated by the builder when you picked it up. If he installed the adapter then he is responcible for it being loose due to the wrong bolts .
Which in turn lit the fuse on your time bomb.

Apparently after installing the washers you didn't see a loss of pressure so you must have figured no harm no foul and made the passes that night. But you did lose a large amount of oil so the bottom end if anyway possible should have been checked, but since your builder didn't tell you that you felt it was ok.
9 passes is not much runtime and you relying only on his word, you didn't know better and ran it.
People do make mistakes, everyone does. But how they handle themselves after is what makes them an honest person.

Gotta go for now but I can ad more later if ya like .

Donn

[Dewcustom]

mr dew custom. if i were you i would let him know the reason why. if everyone does this maybe he will have better customer relations and have some kind of quality control.......ken

Will do :wink: But now I have to find a new builder. Would like to have someone close by to deal with in person just in case of any problems. any know some good in north Texas?

[fastbowtie]

Lively
I don't care for the deal either, but I did not make the deal the owner of the motor did.
But as we all know, deals can change. He made this deal so he could get his motor back together promptly, but now he was informed he has to ship the damaged block first and it will take up to 3 months to receive the new one.
That's pretty funny since they talked the other day.

Scott Slotten of DynoFlo told the owner of the motor to just bring the block to him in person and he could leave with a new one.
I geuss thats the good thing about being over 1500 mile away, you know the other person won't do that.
At this time all I think all the motor will need is 1 rod 1 piston, block and the verdict is out on the crank at this time.
But at this time nothing is written in stone on any of this Nightmare.
In a perfect world the owner should and would receive A New bottom end and I would receive an apology for the crap he has said to me & about me to others.
So Scott I know your reading all of this so you really need to do something for damage control cause this isn't going away and will only get worse.
Satelite Radio has alot of listeners and so do our posts!


Donn Waters

[topsportsman1]

Donn for what its worth,why don't you post it on Racing Junk and try to sell the engine and start all over and have one built local

I'd sell that B!tch on RJ of coarse a post is no good without pictures

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/nubienqueen/screwed.jpg

^^^^^^^ good one Perry

[lively]

:idea: THAT MIGHT BE A GREAT IDEA-DONN---ONE SLIGHTLY USED ENGINE/NEVER DRIVEN BY AN OLD LADY EVEN OUT OF THE GARAGE/NEEDS SLIGHT ADJUSTMENTS AND A LITTLE PREP WORK!!!!!CHEAP :cry: :cry:

[slowman]

that's the best idea yet topsportman.there's a huge differents between a engine builder and a engine assembler and want we have here is assembler that can't even do that right.dynoflo you need to quit and go pump gas if you need to no were the gas goes we can help you.i just what to no how's the air smell in you colon.i know just like the engines you assemble.i have a old torque wrench if you need to know what one looks like.

[lotsof454sss]

When you list yours Donn would you post mine also....I am now open for business at lotsof454sss racer engines and I have a new strategy..You do not have to blow these up as I build them that way for you...Just send me the money and an idea of how you want it blown.....here is my latest build.....it is a 947 1/2 at 1900hp


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/grandmastercow/engine%20blew%20up/imgp1957xv6.jpg

[slowman]

lotsof454 did it have a oil leak because i don't see anything wroung?

[chevguy65]

lotsof454 did it have a oil leak because i don't see anything wroung?

Yeah, looks just like....well you know whos engines

[bigdaddy2607]

i agree 100% with dewcustom. keep your engine builder somewhat local. i live in pa, dyno-flo was in las vegas. they give me a good rate of 400.00 to ship motor to me but a local trucking company was going to charge me around600 plus to ship it back to las vegas. defenitly stay local, that shipping money can buy some nice parts for you...........ken

[mcracecars]

that shipping money can buy some nice parts for you...........ken

yeah, like a good torque wrench.... :lol:
obviously, a tool dyno flow, has not heard about yet... :shock:

[fastbowtie]

Well, Scott Slotten of DYNOFLO I gave you my apology Friday and I am very sure you have read it.
Now I have waited all weekend and not a peep from you. I know your cat didn't eat your mouse due to the fact you have been posting ads.
I've been pretty nice until now and believe it or not all the people that have posted have been as well. Especially since You have accused me of Sabotage, gross incompetence, being uneducated, and just plain Sucking at being a mechanic.
Re-read all the posts I've made concerning you and tell me what I've said bad or untruthful.

George Douklias, the owner of the motor is not asking you for this, I am!

But You need to step up and take care of him as well!
Myself and just about everybody else feel you should step up and give the man ALL the parts he needs and not just make a token gesture of a block.
You have made sarcastic comments about how I've went to C.S.I lengths to doccument this motor. I doccumented it like I would anything else I do and Im very glad I did now.
It's true you did make the gesture to send the motor back and you would rebuilt it, but due to how you have handled all of this like I said before, That is Not an Option.
It's true your buisness is larger than mine but thats not what makes a good buisness man or a good person for that fact Dealing with the public and stepping up when your company has a problem is what makes a good buisness man. I've given you time & plenty of it and up until now if you think I've been bashing you or starting a Witch hunt your mistaken. I guess its time now to start one.
So if anyone would like all the info for posts on other sites feel free to let me know and I will provide you with all the pics, emails and all the info you need .LET THE HUNT BEGIN. :twisted:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0801.jpg

[mitchz]

Even the best engine builders make mistakes.....
BUT if they dont stand behind what they build and if in fact they forgot to tighten the rods bolts they should give you full replacment.
Breaking your motor at the track is one thing,breaking it before you get to the track because of an "Oppps" is another..
I would have just sent the motor back and then worked it out before posting it on here for public bashing , at this point you have tried to hurt his reputation which is only warrented if he didnt want to make good.

[chevguy65]

I would have just sent the motor back and then worked it out before posting it on here for public bashing , at this point you have tried to hurt his reputation which is only warrented if he didnt want to make good.

Mitch,

Donn did try to make things right, and the guy tells him he is uneducated and basically to go pound sand up his backside.
No bashing even occured until the 'builder" refused to apologize or take any responsibility.

All the "builder" did was to make excuses and claim his shop NEVER makes mistakes....my ass, everyonr makes mistakes, some people are just too ignorant or trying to hide it to admit when they do.

Re read the entire thread and you will see nothing was even said about the 'builder" until after he was given every opportunity to make things right.

[lively]

I AGREE - :roll: --THE BUILDER SHOULD HAVE TRIED TO SETTLE THIS RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING :evil: NOT AFTER HE GETS PUT ON PUBLIC DISPLAY :? !!!TO TELL SOMEONE THEY ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED AND TO NOT WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT DID HAPPEN TO THE MOTOR WAS JUST PLAIN BAD PUBLIC RELATIONS!! :cry: :cry: LET THE BIULDER GO CRY SOMEWHERE ELSE--HE SCREWED UP JUST REPLACE IT~~~ :idea: START HIRING PEOPLE THAT CAN AND WILL USE A TORQUE WRENCH AND DOUBLE CHECK THERE OWN WORK :idea: ---THEY WILL END UP ALOT BETTER OFF AND WON'T END UP HERE!!!!!! :wink: :wink: :wink:

[slowman]

mitchz,you no clue in what went do with dynoflo.the guy is a engine assembler and not good at and far from a builder.never made a mistake please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.look at all the treads on this post and all the other post through the forum and then come back and tell don how to deal with it.he never even named the bone head intell the last post that's over a week of post before he name them. i thinks that more then enough time and know it's time to show the public the facts.

[hammertime]

mr dew custom. if i were you i would let him know the reason why. if everyone does this maybe he will have better customer relations and have some kind of quality control.......ken

Will do :wink: But now I have to find a new builder. Would like to have someone close by to deal with in person just in case of any problems. any know some good in north Texas?

Sunset Racecraft ...

[slowman]

Appropriate preloads are specified for each ARP bolt. These preloads can be attained in a connecting rod by applying proper torque using a torque wrench or by measuring the amount of stretch in the bolt using a stretch gauge (it is known that a bolt stretches in proportion to the tension in it). The torque method is sometimes inaccurate because of the uncertainty in the coefficient of friction at the interface between the bolt and the rod.the bolts can be check to see if they were ever tightened by arp!!!!!!!it's a no brainer to most but some are blind to the facts.

[altune]

I have gone thru a few problems like this with engine builders, some BIG names.
At we had a 565 with break in time and 3 runs grenade and throw a rod destroy one cylinder, junk went into the cam valley, snaped the camshaft pin drive and bolt and you get the rest.
At first the builder was in disbeleaf, then he wanted the whole deal sent back, he deduced a rod bolt had broke.
he wanted me to buy a new crank, two rods, they wanted to fix the block etc etc.
I told him it was his responsibility to provide a new block and all the broken parts to be replaced.
it took 3 months and some threats of lawsuits to make it right, but they finally did.
I had to pay the freight both ways though, the engine was $17,000 new
Al

[etbird]

Fastbowtie handled this in a very professional manner. He took the high road. To bad the builder did not. Bad commercial he should make it right.

[shwtime]

Fastbowtie handled this in a very professional manner. He took the high road. To bad the builder did not. Bad commercial he should make it right.

i myself just called dynoflo last week on 1 of his ford 347 stroker short block assemblys as they are a great deal we spoke for quite a while seemed like nice peaple was ready to place an order this week after reading this thread i will be checking elswhere just my 2 cents

[lotsof454sss]

Fastbowtie handled this in a very professional manner. He took the high road. To bad the builder did not. Bad commercial he should make it right.

i myself just called dynoflo last week on 1 of his ford 347 stroker short block assemblys as they are a great deal we spoke for quite a while seemed like nice peaple was ready to place an order this week after reading this thread i will be checking elswhere just my 2 cents

oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that had to hurt again......Well "DYNOFLOP" how many is that you have lost that we all know of in the last week and a half :?: uh.... 2 I know....and am sure more, and I guess this is someone elses fault too......Can you put a torque wrench on a lost order and tell how much that is in lost revenue....I tried to tell you to call PACE TRAILERS and see if they wanted on this forum again.....

[dynoflo]

this is a short block built in 2005 that the customer had a person that he refers to as a mechanic build the engine, and install it in his vehicle. I received the call about this about 10 days ago. First of all, after 16 months, there is nothing that I can say or do. Please, that is just silly. Most guys won't even talk to you about a problem after 30 days let alone 16 months. Secondly, the engine was completely assembled by this " mechanic" not a shop. Somebody did something somewhere. He did try to tell me that we didn't torque the bolts. I have two seperate people torque the bolts on every shortblock. This is specifically to avoid any issues like this from occuring. Although, now we will also include with every shortblock.a note that verifies that every bolt was double checked, but for them to also check them, not because we have issues, but because customers will try to blame anyone who touches an engine besides themselves. Let me clarify quite clearly that we are not some fly by night scammer working out of his house or some back alley shop. WE ARE A QUITE LEGITIMATE, 10,000SQFT PRO RACE SHOP, WITH MACHINE SHOP, CNC MACHINE, DYNO FACILITY, AND RETAIL SHOWROOM [SPEEDSHOP]. WE HAVE OVER 100 DART BLOCKS IN STOCK, 2 MILLION IN INVENTORY ALL HARDCORE, NO BLEMS OR JUNK. i PERSONALLY DYNO EVERY COMPLETE ENGINE PRIOR TO SHIPPING. I HAVE NEVER LOST AN ENGINE IN 8 MINUTES, I HAVE NEVER LOST AN ENGINE DUE TO LOOSE ROD BOLTS. THIS DYNO RUNS BETWEEN 3-6 ENGINES A WEEK THAT WE BUILD IN HOUSE. I HAVE DYNOED OVER 1000 ENGINES SINCE OPENING IN 1995, AND THESE FACTS ARE STILL THE SAME AND TRUE. WE ARE NOT PERFECT. BUT WE ARE ABOUT THE MOST HONEST JOINT IN THE COUNTRY, WE PROVIDE SERIOUS VALUE AND HORSEPOWER THAT NO ONE CAN MATCH FOR EVEN NEAR THE PRICE. SOME GUYS CLAIM TO HAVE SET TRACK RECORDS, YES WE HAVE TOO, BUT WE ALSO HAVE WON A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP IN 2005 IN IHRA. COUNTLESS TRACK CHAMPIONSHIPS IN CIRCLETRACK, AND DRAG. WE HAVE TOP SPEED RECORDS ON THE WATER IN VARIOUS CLASSES. SILLY ALLEGATIONS THAT WE ARE SCAMMERS, IS JUST IGNORANT. as for some of the idiots on here. 3 in particular that seem to want to talk and talk. mike the belair boys, you are just pissed because you tried to screw me and didn't get away with it. by the way an ase tech means that you took a test that says you can swap alternators woopee!!!. hammer time, you've been talkin shit for a long time, yet you never bought anything. he says everyone sucks, and then always says to go to suncoast race engines. then there is dumb ass 11 second jay nakamura who bought an engine in in 2002 ran it until 2003, then decided to relash his valves for the first time since buying the engine and he crashed all the valves bending 13 pushrods breaking 2 and dropping a valve into a piston. he then claims that we don't know how to build an engine. by the way jay is also an ase "mechanic" I guess he failed the valve lashing portion of his test. NO ONE WHO EVER BOUGHT ANYTHING FROM US WILL EVER CLAIM HONESTLY THAT WE FAILED TO SHIP A DEAD HONEST PRODUCT PERIOD. i did see a post from a guy out of canada who mentions a laundry list of engine building sins including using a 427 crank in a 454 and such, he was not referring to us. IF YOU ARE NERVOUS ABOUT ONE OF OUR ENGINES, ORDER IT AND THEN COME ON DOWN TO WATCH IT RUN ON THE DYNO [after all it is las vegas] IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT WE'LL BUILD YOU ANOTHER. I HAVE NEVER HAD A GUY COME GET HIS MOTOR WHO WAS DISAPOINTED. STILL NERVOUS, BUY THE PARTS AT THE BEST PRICES AROUND AND HAVE YOUR GUY DO THE WORK. no we don't tell people how to do it over the phone, we get paid for that. ANY QUESTIONS CAN BE DIRECTED TO ME. I AM SCOT SLOTTEN [NOT SOME LAME ALIAS LIKE THESE GUTLESS ANONYMOUS ACCUSERS] OWNER OF DYNO-FLO. 702-567-3035 SHOP HOURS 8A-6P M-F PACIFIC TIME AND MOST SAT 9-5.

[slowman]

ok you said a bunch of crap now replace the guys engine like a man.if you realy know what the hell you were talking about it would be clear that you screwed up.stop drinking beer and come back to reality.if you have all this inventory then it shouldn't be hard to replace your screw up.i have seen alot of people loosen the rod bolts to blow up there motor lol!!!!!!!!!!!!i would give you my number but engine assemblers like you make me what to throw up.JUST BE A MAN AND MAKE IT RIGHT

[dynoflo]

Hi, Just another note. I don't surf the forums. When someone wants to call me out in a forum, they need to tell me that they are calling me out. Yes, I am an asshole. No appology needed. It happens easily for me after I answer the same question 5 times in a row from the same guy. That is why I usually have the nice guy answer the phone. He puts up with more stuff before getting impatient than I do. What fastbowtie didn't do aside from call a public meeting requesting my response and not telling me about it, is he put himself in the middle of a deal that was fine without him. As well, he has now made accusations on line that he has done purely for his own ego, not thinking of his customer's needs. As for hurting my business, yes, these ignoramouses start smack on here without any credibility and their names are held up there like they are jesus the engine builder. As for my credibility, I have been doing this for 7 days a week for almost 12 years in the same city, for a living. I don't get weekends off, I don't work short shifts. When it comes to these engines I have been there and done that. Many people don't know as much as they need to about these monsters and then try to do it themselves. I can tell you, that in my shop, I can do everything here from machine the block to coat the pistons, port the heads and dyno the engines. I design these combos also. There is very little about my engines that anyone could know better than me. So when I speak in my defense it should carry a bit more weight than a parts changer or garage mechanic, or some guy on the fence watching with his mouth open and nothing smart to say. Yes, it is my business, yes these threads do damage, but most of my customers have better things to do than this so they don't see this, because when they do they swarm to my defense and call me to let me know about these things. that is how I found this out today. have fun guys Scot

[mcracecars]

im going to get some popcorn..... :D

signed:
the guy from canada :lol:

[slowman]

scott your right we all are just a bunch of back yard engine builders. but you have 12yrs and i have 20yr in the biz and if you think treating people like this is good for biz then you need a tractor to pull realy hard.HERE IS A GOOGLE SEARCH of some of the people you screwed.#1WWW.LVFBODY.COM#2WWW.SILVERSTATESTANGS.C OM#3RACEPAGES.COM#4WWW.RACINGJUNK.COM and this is only a few of the sites.they all most be back yard guys to.

[fastbowtie]

Well Scott I have to admit your a pretty smooth talker :lol: Lets start by saying Yes we did purchase A COMPLETE SHORTBLOCK from you in late 2005 and it took over 3 months to receive it in early 2006. All I had to do to Your bottom end was install the oil pump which we purchased locally and bolt the oilpan on which we purchased from you.
The motor was then bagged & sealed until the Brodix cylinder heads & intake arrived from brodix .Then we sent the cylinder heads & intake to Matt Helton at H.P.S for all the final top end work.
Once we got back the top end, I, Donn Waters installed the top end to Your Shortblock and all of the rest of the parts to make the engine Complete.
Once completed the engine was primed and bagged for a second time due to the fact the Camaro it was going in was being finished.
Once the Camaro got back to my shop for the final time I installed the engine in Mr Douklias Camaro only to find out we had a header Clearance problem so the headers were shipped back to Lemons where Dan Lemons took care of the problem once the headers returned and everything else was finished. In the meantime the motor was primed & sealed I do have several members of Racing Junk as well as other people that can attest to this.
When everything was ready the motor was primed for the 3rd time then started and I will have to admit it sounded pretty damn good until it ate itself 8 minutes later.
Well thats the complete story guys.
I did NOT touch or alter YOUR bottom end and accusing me of it is pretty LAME on your part .
I have tried to take the high road on all of this and let You Scott Slotten of Dynoflo settle the motor deal with Mr Douklias.
All I was asking for was an apology for what you said to me over the phone before you hungup on me and for what you said about me to other people in emails.
Now all your post tells me is that you can't admit your company can make a mistake, and the only thing Hammertime said in any of this was give a second option to someone.
Bottom line is your Company made a mistake and are too full of yourself to admit that mistakes do happen, instead you feel it nessasary to belittle others.
I myself would have been more than happy to end this with an apology. But as it seems by reading your post you are unwilling to do that for me.
Now all of this is in the open and it's gonna take more than that to make it go away.
Replace Mr douklias motor or at least give him the parts needed to repair it and we will send you all the damaged parts back in return.
And give me an apology.

[lively]

SLOWMAN----DO YOU NOW RELIZE HOW DUMB YOU MUST BE!!!---ACCORDING TO SCOTT YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF CUSTOMERS WHO GRIPE ABOUT THERE ENGINES!!!--YOU JUST LET THEM ROT INSTEAD :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: --NOBODY HAS EVER SAID SCOTT THAT ALL YOUR ENGINES ARE JUNK---THEY AREN'T---I HAVE SEEN GOOD ONES THAT COME OUT OF YOUR SHOP-- BUT---WHAT WE ARE MAD ABOUT IS YOU WON'T DO THE RIGHT THING HERE AND BE A MAN AND GIVE THE GUY THE PARTS OR ENGINE TO FIX THIS PROBLEM!!!!!!NOT ALL BACK YARD BUILDERS ARE DUMB AND DO NOT KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING---I HAVE MADE MISTAKES ON MY OWN BUT I WILL FIX IT TOOO--WILL YOU???? :oops: :oops: :oops:

[fastbowtie]

Wow alot was said while I was typing, I geuss I must be a little slow :roll:
Mr Scot You were aware and had a chance to respond privately or publicly when this was in the general forum before your company was even mentioned.
And as for our Phone conversation it was on the 4th time I asked you and implied you were skating the issue after that you started raising your voice.
By the 6th time I asked you the same question & try to get a real answer thats when you were screaming at me told me you would do nothing and finally hung up on me after I Yelled back and said ( Listen A$$h%*e Your starting to PI$$ me off.
I even apologized for it in a public forum.
If your accusing me and the others of being a backyard mechanics, thats fine go ahead.
As a matter of fact I think I did get my start in the back yard OR was it the side yard I dont remember anyway I would consider myself a Good Ole Boy that tries to do right by my customers .

[chevguy65]

So Scott, since you have 12 years experience and since you have said your shop NEVER makes mistakes, then why do you have post after post of people that have had similar issues with you and your shop?????? (not just from this site, and from many years)

Why were all of your rod bolts finger tight?

Why do you come here and make excuses like you did with me when I messaged you and just asked for straight answers, which you never did do?

I mean if you do so much and are so good, then why not admit one of your schleps may have made a mistake and do what is right?

That is all any of us has asked yet you show your true colors by coming here and making more excuses and continuing to bash us for asking you to tell the truth.

You are a real piece of work sir, and as an admitted asshole, you need to go back to lawn mower repair.

[woodsman]

This guy sounds just like Bret Bowers but he did get the short block built.Scott do the right thing like Bret did give him the parts or money back.Learn from your mistakes as we all have.Wesley

[lotsof454sss]

What does a man truely think of himself if he admits he is an asshole :?: Is that really something a person would say about themselves unless they were admitting it on a psycho couch :?: I guess Big Brother program is a no no for him :lol: And lastly, After the long manure spreading does anyone need these :?:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/hackergroupie/bestwaders.jpg

[slowman]

454 those are only hip boots you need the ones that go to your cest.

[etbird]

Lotsof454sss I think you are right on target. LOL It's so deep I think I need the waders and a step stool.

[slowman]

just keepen it at the top

[fastbowtie]

Today after checking further I found when I posted the reply to DynoFlo I had stated the wrong time line .We did recieve the ShortBlock in 2005 But everything else was correct .So I did make a mistake But Not on the Rod Bollts .

[etbird]

You see that dynoflo, fastbowtie admitted he made a mistake. That is how it's done.

[lively]

:oops: :oops: DYNOFLO :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[dynoflo]

HELLO: you took the high road posting on a forum to give me a chance to respond. you never told me that you were posting on a forum and that I was to respond. I found out days later, after you went off half cocked. You were the the problem on the phone, but anyway. the point is still the same. But before I get to that, READ THIS: I offered to rebuild the whole engine [I only sold him a short block] and dyno it to prevent any other issues the "mechanic" could have created. THIS IS CALLED STEPPING UP. We concluded last week that exchanging the block would be more acceptible to George the customer. George was satisfied. then the "mechanic" and his buddy start tag teaming me on here without letting me know about it, AND YOU ALL CALL THAT TAKING THE HIGH ROAD. THAT IS CALLED B.S. now as a result of the fact that the boys went off on here acting like children expecting appologies, I have withdrawn any offer to help George at all. The damage is done. CONGRATULATIONS DINGALING!!! YOU WIN. Now for the peanut gallery: I don't care who you are, where you come from, how much money you make, how smart or stupid you are, if you call anyone who builds engines, sells parts, machines stuff, or hell even walmart, with an invoice from 9-2005, on an item that has no warranty, no one will even discuss the issue with you. call all the other engine builders in national dragster and tell them you bought stuff and have a problem from 2005, they will tell you that they are sorry, but there is nothing that they can do. I OFFERED TO HELP ANYWAY...AND FOR THIS I GET BASHED ANYWAY. RIGHT ON. I never asked for your appology [that is how it is actually spelled], and I don't owe you anything that resembles an appology. BY THE WAY I TOOK THE "HIGH ROAD" AND POSTED ALL KINDS OF STUFF TO YOUR BOSSES AND CUSTOMERS ABOUT ALL OF YOU BEHIND YOUR BACKS DAYS AGO WITHOUT TELLING YOU SO THAT YOU CAN'T GET IN THERE TO DEFEND YOURSELVES, BEFORE THEY FIRE YOU FOR STUFF YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT. Have a nice day, all you anonymous jokers with no real names or contact info. Put it out there so I can show you how it works. I am done here with this issue. I have proven my point to anyone that knows how to read the whole thing. questions??? 702-567-3035

[lively]

YOU HAVE PROVEN ONE THING FOR SURE-----YOU ARE ARROGANT/SELFISH/AND HAVE A LOUSY ATTITUDE TO CUSTOMERS[YOU DID ADMIT THAT ON HERE]---WE ARE NOT NOR HAVE EVER NOT BEEN FAIR IN THESE FORUIMS--WE SEARCH OUT THE TRUTH ON BOTH SIDES [WHEN THE OTHER SIDE WILL RESPOND] AND TRY TO SETTLE THINGS FOR OUR FELLOW RACERS---YOU COOKED YOUR OWN GOOSE/ NO ONE ELSE DID IT FOR YOU!!!!

[lotsof454sss]

a·pol·o·gy(-pl-j)
n. pl. a·pol·o·gies
1. An acknowledgment expressing regret or asking pardon for a fault or offense.
2.
a. A formal justification or defense.
b. An explanation or excuse: "The consequence of those measures will be the best apology for my conduct" Daniel Defoe.
3. An inferior substitute: The sagging cot was a poor apology for a bed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Noun 1. apology - an expression of regret at having caused trouble for someone; "he wrote a letter of apology to the hostess"
acknowledgement, acknowledgment - a statement acknowledging something or someone; "she must have seen him but she gave no sign of acknowledgment"; "the preface contained an acknowledgment of those who had helped her

[fastbowtie]

What have you proven Scot :?:
That you cannot admit that your company made a mistake :?:
When you & George Douklias talked last Friday He asked you for all the parts, first you refused.
And just to get it over with he said if you would send him just a block he would send the broken one back.
You agreed.
Then you stated you needed the block back first so you could take specs from it for the new block...Yeah Rite.
You also told George that it would take :?: HOW LONG? Scot please refresh my memory was it up to 3 months :?: for him to recieve A block back.
The reason why is that you only had 3 of those blocks in stock and they were already promised out and you would have to get one from Dart.
You told everyone on this forum your company has over 2 million in inventory but you don't have a block to send to George :?:
You could have had Dart dropship a block to Southern Style Racing Engines! In a couple of days it would be there and been done with it.
I will tell you something George might not be a mechanic but he is a buisnessman.
After he realized what you were trying to pull He was scared to death about the whole deal do to the fact He on his own did some reasearch on the internet about DynoFlo and saw that even the motors You made good on Took absolutely forever!
He also saw how you have treated SOO many other people.
And to be frank, it scared me too. I never said you built Junk motors just this one.
I'm glad you feel you can run your mouth and attempt to belittle me and anyone that might even sneeze in your direction.
First you blamed Me for the rodbolts being loose and now your accusing me for YOU not wanting to stand up and help your customer out at all.
You didn't want to in the first place, but you jumped at the chance to make this go away quickly and then you still got greedy as far as I'm concerned and wanted him to jump through your hoops and make him wait .

[slowman]

scott the only thing you proved is that your not that bright.if you look at how many people have read this you would be smart enough to no that your losing biz.you say we hind behide the screen names, i don't give my name and number to a dumbass.if you can't see the truth with the pics why would anyone want to talk to you.i guess being two feet tall pissed you off in life.

[fastbowtie]

OH YEA by the way Scot I know for a fact you were aware of this even when it was in the general section Long before your name or Dynoflo name was even mentioned. You chose ONLY to post after it came over to the scammer section and your name and you company name was mentioned .
No one is tag teaming you, you just pi$$ed off alot of people with your actions and the garbage coming out of your mouth . If you could not tell that that shortblock that your Company built was still brand new then you don't know your product as good as you say you do.
Hell it still had your assembly lube still on the camshaft. Do you know how we know this? It's a different color than the lube I used on the lifters. You have all the pics to prove it.
You know I haven't posted all the pics but im gonna even the one where the waters pi$$ing out of the whole in the block when we dropped the oilpan .If you think myself or George are lying Contact George Pils at Southern Style Racing engines Ph# 727546-7000 He can verify that the motor was still new and had never been gone thru or modified .

[altune]

Dynoflo has a point in the timeline of this block. its hard to track where the blocks been for over a year.
But if proven never run untill the time posted then yes He is liable for damage, as long as no one has touched the rod torque.
Rod torque is ultra critical, most if not all engine builders Strech them to length, this process takes a bit of time and I could not think of anyone leaving them hand tight. But stranger things have happened.
Not taking sides
just my 2C

[slowman]

altune,that's to much to ask were trying to get him to use a torque wrench first then we will teach him the right way.

[robinhorn]

I can say this much if George Pils is stating it's due to dynotune then it is. Mr. Pils is well known in this area for racing and speaks the truth. Very outstanding person.

As for buying anything from Dynotune...... never. I am ready to replace my 383 with a new 434 and was looking at Dynotune and going to CA next month so I was checking on a flight over to see the shop and the motors. If I was going to chose them it was build the motor and I will fly out and ship it back myself. No money up front for a standard 434, if your shop can not have them in stock then you do not get my money. I don't play the rob peter to pay paul game.

NOW NO WAY IN HE_L WOULD I USE THEM. Your words and actions have lost you a sale with me.

And this is not any bull $hit.

[fastbowtie]

Well guys, What do thease pics say :?:.
Was it a used motor or not or was it abused?
The pics of the cylinder heads still have the blue around the valves and #s on the valves from a sharpie from when H.P.S did them.
Look at the lube still on the outer sides of the lobes and then look at the lube still on the lifters from when I installed them, 2 different lubes.
This motor was removed from the car on a friday night we had to pull the converter with the motor because it was locked up we dropped the pan even before it was on the engine stand and found the bolt in the windage tray.
There were 5 people there when all of this took place.
The next morning I stripped the motor down to the shortblock with out turning the engine over or checking any torque's. The motor was then put on a motor pallet loaded into the back of Mr Douklias truck and then transported to Southern Style Racing Engines where George Pils the owner of SSRE removed the bad rod and checked the rest of the rod bolts where he found all the remaining rod bolts to be hand tight.
I did not claim the rod bolts were loose because I checked them, The owner of SSRE found this out in front of myself, Mr Douklias and all his employee's.
Once I receive the complete breakdown & findings from SSRE I will be more than happy to post them as well.
Yes we did place the order and pay for the motor in early sept 05 but Scot how many months did it take to recieve the engine :?: and that is a point well taken but as you can see this motor is Brand New still .

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0819.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0797.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0818.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0799.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0815.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0798.jpg
Notice the surface rust where the water came out of the hole in the block :?: It wiped rite off.
Also look at the cylinder honing.
LIKE I SAID BRAND NEW

[mytmouz]

:shock:

[fastbowtie]

Scot you stated in your first post

the engine was completely assembled by this " mechanic" not a shop. Somebody did something somewhere. He did try to tell me that we didn't torque the bolts.

Well here is your invoice on the engine Also note the date next to the piston # 09/28 where there was a piston change at your shop .
If you say that I assembled the entire engine then why did we pay you to do it :?:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/001.jpg

[mytmouz]

:shock: :shock:

[etbird]

Oh scott, I think fastbowtie has got you on the ropes. BTW an argumentative style will get you no where in business.

[chevguy65]

Scott,

I want to say I am sorry.

I am sorry you are such an asshole.
I am sorry you do not know what the hell your doing.
I am sorry you continue to screw people over.
I am sorry you only know how to make excuses for your shoddy workmanship.
I am sorry you have the customer service skills of a slug.
I am sorry you never grew to become a real man.
I am sorry for all of these things, and above all I am sorry for you, and your family that have to put up with you.

There I said I am sorry and I feel better now.


Now, quit acting your height and be a man and fix this with the owner.

[malibuvette]

I thought I would put my experience with Dyno-flo in here. I had a 582 built in 2005. We drove to the shop and witnessed the dyno. The engine came up a bit short on power. (911 instead of the expected 950) I was happy with the customer service and the fact that Scott kept the manifold for porting and was helpful.

After installation in the car, several months after picking up the engine due to a bad paint experience on the car, I had a water in oil problem. We pulled the engine, returned it to Scott, who promtly pulled the engine apart and found that it had an intake gasket fail at the water jacket. I put the intake on after he ported it post dyno. He freshened it with bearings, checked it all out, and only charged me $250 for the parts and labor.

I call that pretty stand up. Considering I put the manifold on, the water issue was my fault.

I have no idea what happened to the 454 small block in question, but I did want to add my good experience for a balanced story.

[fastbowtie]

Thanks for your post.
As I and other people have stated not all his engines are bad just this one.
I am glad he did rite by you. If you have read this entire post you will see that this post is not just because of the problems with the engine but how he has handled the whole situation. That is why the DynoFlo name was kept out of it for so long to give him a chance to make it rite .
Instead he has bashed anyone with an opinion and gave his thoughts on how he feels about ASE certified Mechanics .
He has personaly made attacks on me to me and to other people and said that his Company couldn't have made this mistake.
Every company makes A mistake now & then I don't care what you do or what they manufacture It Does happen.
I'm glad he did rite by you and im sure he has done rite by other people as well.
But read the whole ad & tell me what he should have done for us on this motor. You can PM me with you reply if you like and if don't want to get involved any further.

[chevguy65]

malibuvette,

no one said all his stuff is junk, and am happy you had good experiences with Scott.

But there are many out there that had experiences like fastbowtie, and all he does is make excuses and cast blame on everyone else.

He states he took the high road, but right after this happened I sent him a message and his response was BS, 3 times I asked for facts and all I got were piss poor excuses and blaming saying that fast was a poor mechanic. Fast did not build the short-block, Scott did.

Bottom end failure in 8 minutes of run time....you do the math.

[hobbesnmina2001]

I have been getting acquainted with the forums. This is a similar post to another I recently put up on the subject of scammers. It is good that RJ has these forums, we can all learn a lot, maybe recover some parts, maybe save some people a bad time.
I lost money in bad deals too in the past (not through this site yet) I prefer mainly dealing with locals that have a good reputation for large projects. It may cost more up front at times, but it is usually offset by their help and their advice when needed!!
IMO if someone has a bad attitude its better to move on and find someone willing to be more helpful.
My one friend likes to say you should'nt have to kiss someones A$$ to give them your money! :lol:
Locally JanCen Automotive, Competition Trans, Torrelli Pro Cars, and other locals in Buffalo have given me plenty of helpful advice and great service. :D
I am just a little guy trying to get by like many, I know they have a lot of customers that spend a lot more $$ then I can afford to and still they are helpful, courteous, and do great work.
I know people that had good luck with Reher Morrison and others, but for me I prefer to have the people locally and when I have a question its much easier to be able to talk or take the equipment for them to see.
Last year Mike Janis helped on a blown motor I was putting together for a project. I had a budget and a deadline, I have put a few motors together but I am no engine builder, and not at a high HP level. Mike is very picky and had me check and report everything about the motor, I bought a set of Dart heads and other parts. As I was assembling and checking I was concerned about the valve springs coming close to binding.
Mike is super busy, he builds top shelf race motors, could of blown me off, could of said some nasty remarks about me not knowing what I was doing, but he did none of that.
Mike had ordered the heads himself, and asked me to bring the heads over. He took them apart in front of me and showed me how to check for max lift and bind! :wink:
Through out the project I would show him parts and Mike never tried to sell me something I did not not need, just what was not up to the task, or borderline. :D
Likewise Carl Ettipio at Competition has checked transmissions for me and he too shows me and teaches me about what is there.
I bought a used BBC combination (heads, intake, pistons, bare block) from Carl that became my first race motor along with a trans and converter he built for us. That combo performed exactly as Carl said it would. :D
These guys and others are priced very fairly with the market and the final deal becomes a positive pleasant experience. :D
As customers we should recognize good service takes valuable time over just selling parts at a low price. Low prices are great but good parts become expensive junk real fast when not put together correctly. :(
I like to do as much work as I can not just to save some $ but to learn cause at the track or home I may be on my own. When we choose this path we have to be responsible for our actions. If I screwed something up, its not their fault, but being honest with them they will help me out so I don't screw up again.
A parts seller may not make much profit, and does not have much time invested in the customer.
High performance and racing is expensive, I like a good deal as much as the next guy, and IMO the best deal is a fair price for a good product with good service.
This thread was not about these local guys, just showing how good hardworking, honest individuals handle customer relations and build a good business.
I don't expect a busy shop to drop everything at the first instant for me, they are very busy, but they always get back to me within reason. When I started dealing with them I assured them they would never get stiffed on a deal by me. After a while folks like that become more then just people we do business with, they become friends.
Professional means a person got paid for a service thats all, a good backyard mechanic is better to deal with any day then a bad Pro.
A good Pro will take of his customers, and in return his good customers will take care of them. :wink:
Just my opinion.

Carlos

[jbsjunk]

A good Pro will take of his customers, and in return his good customers will take care of them. :wink:
Just my opinion.

Carlos

Amen. 8)

[altune]

Yes a good engine builder will take car of his customers.
I recently received a 565 supercharged engine from a builder and have not even asked him for any help on it and tried to send him some business in the way of two complete short blocks, He blew me off, Now I'm not sure if I want anything to do with him. I will give my money to someone who is not so arrogant and Just can't deal with it.
So far there have been 2 major builders that have gone this way with me.
So what If I am not ordering a $30,000 pro motor, It is still business.
Al

[hobbesnmina2001]

Altune,
here is a small example of Mike, after helping me with what I needed on the build he took the time at the Indy Nationals where he was racing to come and look at the car and listen to it. We are restoring so I am changing to fuel injection on gas, Jancen took the time to get ne the correct barrel valve and nozzles. Not a big deal, I could have ordered them from Hilborn myself but its the fact they will go the extra mile for a customer even a small one! :D
Carl is the same way, he is helping me for the resto on hard to find 727 pushbutton which are not popular anymore. I am sure these guys could make more $ with more popular combos, but they both do business with a lot of people that are not local....wonder why!!

Carlos

[bigboy42]

ROD BOLT Failure!
Later
G 8) most rod bolts will withstand 150,000 psi and an engine will not generate that kind of pressure. the rod cap appeares to be on right. i would say it hit the side of the block due to lack of proper clearencing.

[fastbowtie]

The Rod bolt did not fail they were not torqued only hand tight DynoFlo just overlooked the step .Its a mistake that can happen to anyone DynoFlo just wont admit to making it .

[mitchz]

All rod bolt's not torqued ?
Im not buying it.

Besides,you buy a short block I would think you might actually go over any and all bolts before you finish the assembly -
You added the oil pump I assume,maybe a windage tray ?
Dont you own a torque wrench? Dont you check your own ad on's ?
So why would you not check the whole motor ?
Maybe the rods were defective,maybe the bolts were tight but the rod was preventing the bolt from clamping fully,sorta like when you tighten a bolt thats too long for the hole...

Bash the guy all you want,you get what you pay for and you bought the cheapest engine you could find,Dynoflo good bad or otherwise is an internet low cost builder - maybe it was hand tight or maybe not
but I see it as operator error -you failed to finish the assembly like a professional, live and learn then move foward.

[slowman]

mitchz, how much did scott pay you for that one ?

[lively]

YOU KNOW SLOWMAN-- :idea: -SOMETHING SOUNDS AWFULLY FUNNY ON THAT SLAP BACK AT FASTBOWTIE~~~~~CHEAP OR EXPENSIVE--IF IT WAS NOT PUT TOGETHER RIGHT THE FIRST TIME IT WASN'T RIGHT PERIOD!!!!!-----THE FIRE IS HEATING UP ALOT :oops: :oops: :oops:

[slowman]

livily,it sounds like a second one that don't have a clue. the bolts are to long is funny that would mean that dynoflo f'ed up if the bolts were to long.if you put a windage tray on you don't loosen the rod bolts DAAAAA!!!! MICTHZ, i see so if you by a new car you have to put a torque wrench on all the bolts just in case the dumbass at the factory forgot. please get the tractor and pull hard.

[lookingaround]

lol

[lively]

GEEEEEE--MAYBE THEY USED THE INTAKE BOLTS IN THE RODS AND THE HEAD BOLTS IN THE MAINS---BOY OH BOY I SURE AM GETTING CONFUSED ON WHAT GOES WHERE!!!! :roll: :roll:I KNOW----THEY USED A NONENGLISH TORQUE WRENCH :cry: :cry:

[slowman]

the tractor is going to be very very big to pull some heads out of there stink hole.

[fastbowtie]

Mitch Believe what you want Like I said If there is doubt call the Owner who checked them at SSRE the phone # is in a prior post .Hindsight is 20/20 If I would have known about any problems with DynoFlo Yes I would have checked them but we felt confident in their motors .So what you are saying is even though You ,I or anyone else that purchases a motor from a builder it,s our responcibility to recheck everything we paid them to do :?: Well maybe Im wrong for not checking them and putting my confidence in DynoFlo but regaurdless it should have been done rite the first time .This post wasnt brought over to the Scammer section from the General section To just complain about the Hand tight Rod Bolts from DynoFlo But also to show how I was treated over the phone and in emails by Scot Slotten just for implying that one of his motors had A loose Rod Bolt and asking what he would do about it.I will admit I did not put A torque wrench on the bottom End except to torque the oil pump bolt .If you want to think that I am in the wrong for not rechecking their work thats OK because it should have been done correctly at DynoFlo.

[chevguy65]

So mitch,

let me see if I have your logic straight.

I am having a motor built right now by a Professional.
It will be here next week, and according to you, since I will be putting on the altenator, power steering pump etc, that I should tear the engine down and redo it to make sure what I paid good money and put my trust in a professional to do in the first place.

Hmmm, interesting theory but I doubt there are 5 people on the planet that pay someone to do a job and then tear it down to make sure it was done right.

[fastbowtie]

Mitch I forgot to mention Monday morning the Rod is being sent to Eagle to have it checked to see if it was defevtive .But when George Pils at SSRE
tells the owner of the motor and myself that the rod bolts were loose you tend to believe him .

[mitchz]

You buy a short block,what happens after you final assemble is your problem.
You buy a complete motor (which is normally dyno'd) it leaves with the reutation of the builder.Adding external parts like an ALT or a water pump really dont come into play much,unless of course you install a bad water pump and overheat the bitch.
Your inexperience burned yourself,and it happens as part of life dood.

[slowman]

mitchz,your so full of sh-t i can smell you from here. make your way out of dynoflo's colon and start breathing good air doood.

[mitchz]

mitchz,your so full of sh-t i can smell you from here. make your way out of dynoflo's colon and start breathing good air doood.

your just an inexperienced noob.......

[slowman]

20 yrs building racing engines with countless records. ya your right i'm the dumb one. please forest go read somemore hotrod mags.

[fastbowtie]

Now Slowman cut Mitch a little slack If he feels that everyone that purchases a shortblock or an undynoed motor is responcible for making sure that the builder did it correctly thats his oppinion.
Even though when any of us that spend a large sum of our hard earned money we have certian expectations that what we recieve would be assembled correctly.
But Mitch you should reread the entire post and look at the pics it would answer A lot of things you were wondering about .

[bjuice]

All rod bolt's not torqued ?
Im not buying it.

Besides,you buy a short block I would think you might actually go over any and all bolts before you finish the assembly -
You added the oil pump I assume,maybe a windage tray ?
Dont you own a torque wrench? Dont you check your own ad on's ?
So why would you not check the whole motor ?
Maybe the rods were defective,maybe the bolts were tight but the rod was preventing the bolt from clamping fully,sorta like when you tighten a bolt thats too long for the hole...

Bash the guy all you want,you get what you pay for and you bought the cheapest engine you could find,Dynoflo good bad or otherwise is an internet low cost builder - maybe it was hand tight or maybe not
but I see it as operator error -you failed to finish the assembly like a professional, live and learn then move foward.


Sorry Mitchz..your dead wrong on this one !

..your comments were WAY off base Mitchz..

I Agree with you that its good policy to check and re-check,,But as fast bowtie said the responsibility of the torqing the entire short block lies with the orginal builder that got paid for the job..it should have been done right the 1st time..

You do realize that this shortblock was purchased as a turnkey FINISHED product ?

let me ask you a question..Please answer honestly for me..OK ?.

lets say you called up Scott Shafiorff Racing Engines in New York and order one of their COMPLETE 565 shortblocks..to where all you had to do was bolt up your oil pump (which doesn't require the removal of a main cap or rod journal bolts) and your oil pan, heads ,intake,etc........lets say you bolted on all the stuff you were suppose to..then started the motor and all the bolts vibrated out of the bottom of the rods and killed the motor

WHO WOULD THE RESPONSIBILITY REST WITH.....(Please Be truthful) do not tell me what you would have done,,,please respond to the scenerio as it was laid before you...Cause this is not about Monday morning QTR backing..its about dealing with a certain situation as it HAPPENED..

thanks brian

[etbird]

Mitch I don't wish to judge, but did you forget to take your medication?

[lively]

MITCH---YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDINS US HERE!!!!!!!!- :idea: --I DEAL IN JOBS THAT COST ANYWHERE FROM 5000.00---150,000 DOLLARS---I MAKE A 10.00 MISTAKE AND AM 100% RESPONSIBLE/COULD HURT SOMEBODY BADLY/AND RUIN MY BUSINESS---I BUILD HOUSES AND BUILDINGS---IT IS STILL MY PROBLEM TO KEEP THINGS RIGHT AND DOUBLE CHECK ALL MY SUBS WORK/NOT THE ONE I AM WORKING FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!----GET A LIFE -YOU ARE IN THE WRONG SPOT FOR A KNOW-IT-ALL ATTITUDE!!!!! :cry: :cry: I ALSO HAVE BEEN BUILDING CARS AND TRUCKS FOR OVER 30 YEARS IN CASE YOU THINK I AM WET BEHIND THE EARS 8) 8) 8)

[slowman]

the funny thing is he's to dumb to know that a few day's ago he said that dynoflo should replace it if the bolts were left loose that was on march 31. now it's fastbowtie's dumb and the bolts couldn't be left loose. what next the bolt feiry's did it. stick to one story mitch people may beleave you.

[excelerater]

:roll:

must be sabotage

[etbird]

It's a conspiracy perpetrated by the man to keep a brother down.

[lively]

SLOWMAN---BOLT FIERIES!! :lol: :lol: :lol: THAT IS FUNNY

[slowman]

thank's those bolt feiry's are a mo fo. the wrench feiry's are worse they take your best wrench and leave it on the roof so when your leave it goes flying

[trose]

How many sites does one have to act like a a$$ trying to cover up a problem for a builder to get a short block of thier own????

[martin86]

mr dew custom. if i were you i would let him know the reason why. if everyone does this maybe he will have better customer relations and have some kind of quality control.......ken

Will do :wink: But now I have to find a new builder. Would like to have someone close by to deal with in person just in case of any problems. any know some good in north Texas?

You have the best in your state www.Rehermorrison.com

[dirtpimp]

curious that there is no post from the owner of the engine :shock:

[topsportsman1]

curious that there is no post from the owner of the engine :shock:

Nope, the the guy that did the install ,I guess he is out a weeks pay too for installing this piece of junk in the car,and removing it after 8 minutes run time

[chevguy65]

curious that there is no post from the owner of the engine :shock:

Nope, the the guy that did the install ,I guess he is out a weeks pay too for installing this piece of junk in the car,and removing it after 8 minutes run time

Well said, but from what I understand, not only is he out for the week of install and removal, but all the labor time involved in putting the top end together and running all the nos lines etc.

Both the owner and installer took it in the shorts all because the "ass"embler of the short block did a piss poor job.

[slowman]

next time you should call mitchz. he to mart fo mee iish he koud bild me moter thaks.

[lotsof454sss]

curious that there is no post from the owner of the engine :shock:

Nope, the the guy that did the install ,I guess he is out a weeks pay too for installing this piece of junk in the car,and removing it after 8 minutes run time

ooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... that had to hurt.........Also, unless I am mistaken and I am positive that is impossible, the owner of the engine is not a member of RJ.............Neither is my Father so it is not uncommon....

[topsportsman1]

next time you should call mitchz. he to mart fo mee iish he koud bild me moter thaks.

Post this in english Jeff :P :P :P

So others including myself can understand it,,did you bang your head or some thing?

[lotsof454sss]

That is Pig Latin..........

[topsportsman1]

Yeah I can sipher pig latin,all they do is move a few letters around
But can you tell me what he said?

[slowman]

sorry top i'm to dumb to spell or tighten the rod bolts mitchz said so. hear it is in england. i said, he's to smart for me. i wish he could build my motor.thanks

[chevguy65]

He said "he's to smart for me, wish he could build me a motor, thanks"...

[slowman]

dam chevy your 2 smart for me
*EDIT
Spell check
Tom

[topsportsman1]

LOL ok I got it now,you just removed the letter and never added them back in.
Its all good,I'll have to check mr mitch out

[slowman]

we know your getting up in the yrs top it's OK

[topsportsman1]

Thats wisdom son I tell ya wisdom

[chevguy65]

Thats wisdom son I tell ya wisdom :shock: 8) :shock:

[fastbowtie]

Well as A matter of fact the owner of the motor just Joined R/J He will be posting .What some of these people are not getting is its not 100% all about the motor but also how he reacted to it and the better than everyone attitude about all of this .If he would have addressed this matter better & didnt treat us like were all A bunch of mentally challenged backyard mechanics This matter would have been solved .
If your just found or joining in on this post Please do me A favor and look at all the pictures & read all of it .Who knows some of it might make you mad But other parts are for sure to make you Laugh.Then if you feel compelled to ad to it feel free to do so once you,ve gathered all the facts.

[slowman]

wisdom is what old people do in there depends under germents

[fastbowtie]

Ok I thought Id show ya some pics of the motor complete and the car it was in and running for 8 minutes.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0758.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0760.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0761.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0765.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0762.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/HPIM0769.jpg

[slowman]

i just figured out why it broke. it didn't have heater hoses on it. it had nothing to do with the rods being left loose. sorry dynoflo for the mistake!!

[chevguy65]

Like sands through the hour glass so are the days of dynoflo....stay tuned for next weeks episode :shock:

[chevguy65]

episode two....

This is a message I sent to Scott and his bs excuse riddled reply...

On [2007-03-31 21:46:59] chevguy65 wrote:
> Hi, I have never dealt with you personally so this is coming second hand from a good friend that I feel is honest and would have no reason to lie to me.
>
> He has stated that you built one of these short blocks for him and after running for only 8 minutes it popped a rod bolt and chewed the engine. He also states you are unwilling to stand behind your work and make it right for this guy.
>
> If this is the case, how do you expect to stay in business, word travels fast in the racing community as well as the internet, perhaps you have seen the scammer section.
>
> I am in no way making threats, just giving you some advice and asking if this is true.
>
> Like I said I only have one side of the story and would like to hear yours.



dynoflo To: chevguy65 Date: 2007-04-01 21:50:14
Subject: Re: 454 sbc
Re: Ad #809660
Message: I do appreciate your desire to communicate in this fashion, about an issue that is quite simple. First I have no idea who the person is, as well as how long ago that they purchased this short block. however, i do know that things happen after these shortblocks that are shipped, and that the folks who work on them, may or may not know anything about what they are doing, i also know that these folks in their garages make a bunch of mistakes. Second and the part that is most important, We build these everyday. There is no one more familiar with these parts than us. We don't ever have any failures of these rods or their bolts, which leaves the torque procedure, which it seems that so many people cannot get right, but we actually follow the directions from arp on these fasteners, and then i have a second person with a second torque wrench double check all the torques on the engine prior to shipping. this avoids silly people making claims of our impropriety. so this does make the likelyhood that something else happened very likely. I did offer to check it out and tell them what I felt happened, but I guess it is easier to try to blame the other guy than step up to the plate. people do a bunch of stuff to their own stuff that they want to blame the world for their issues, and then they tell their friends to email stuff like this. Tell the "mechanic" to do his job right instead of pointing at everyone else. 8 minutes, you really have to suck to screw up that badly. I have very high standards of excellence and I can assure you that this won't be the first time I have been blamed for someone else's deal. Thanks for accusing instead of asking what the facts are the way we see it and then drawing a conclusion from information from both sides.

[Racefab57]

THIS POST IS GETTINGLLLLLLLLLLLLLLONG , BUT FIRST THE GUY DOESNT KNOW HIM THEN SAYS HE DID ADRESS THE PROBLEM WITH HIM!????? THEN INSULTS US. STAY AWAY FROM THIS GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAVID.

[lano]

Confucius say: MAN WHO GO'S DOWN WITH SINKING SHIP, BECAUSE HE WAS TOO PROUD TO ADMIT TO, AND FIX A 'SIMPLE' LEAK, DESERVES THAT FATE, AND IS "DOOMED TO SINK TO BOTTOM OF THE SEA"

WANNA BUY A SNORKLE DYNAFLO ???

I BET YOU STILL DON'T GET IT,,,,,FOOL,,,,,,

[flipper59]

Second and the part that is most important, We build these everyday.
A person building these everyday is subject to a mistake such as to forget a torque process way far over a guy doing this seldom, the once in awhile guy won't forget that. The question in my mind is how your second guy missed the torque process and you must have had issues prior to even have someone checking behind your bottom end assembler. A competent engine builder won't need a check behind man nor rely on the customer to triple check.!!
I've been building engines for 20 years and repairing cars for my living and i don't won't ANY CUSTOMER checking/handling rods or main bolts behind me in any fashion or form.
I make a mistake every now and then. I can tell when it's my fault. There's a thing called "a stopping point". There's a reason for that also! Eliminates mistakes, such as this mistake!

I can look @ the Photos and determine that engine was new. You mention 2005 too much in your posts. To me that sounds like your excuse. Assembled in 2005!!
Still, it's your short block. It's still new

You can believe one thing. Your buisness will suffer b-c of this one incident. The WWW is a powerful tool. Very!!

[mcracecars]

You can believe one thing. Your buisness will suffer b-c of this one incident. The WWW is a powerful tool. Very!!

agree 100% with Frankie on this, I have done chassis work for guys that wont have their cars out for a couple of years yet, but still, you gotta stand behind your product even 2 years later.
Scot, you are loosing more money than if you had delt with it in a professional manner in the first place.
Many people read these forums and dont post, so it is not just a few of us country hillbillies hanging out here. Just look, there are over 7000 views on this thread alone... that is a lot of hillbillies, isnt it?
Even now, if you fixed the motor no charge and shipping no charge, the damage to your buissness is done.... It can take years to recover...
Too bad, if your business is as good as you say it is....

Some guys will spend dollars to save pennies.... :roll:

[dw]

I really hate to get into this, but i have watched as Scott has refuted, denied any liability and seem to claim infalibility!

This company is not a custom-build high performance engine shop! They mass assemble motors with name brand high performance parts, but that in itself does not make it a custom built high performance motor just as me sleeping in the garage tonight does not make me a car!!!!!!

i have a close personal friend who has one of their motors in his garage floor as we speak that he purchased 2 yrs ago to use as a twin turbo motor and he gave them the specs to build it by and when it arrived it had not been built to his specs therefore this motor will have to go to another machine shop and built right when we get ready to install it.

yes, i said it was purchased 2 yrs ago but it's still in an engine bag and not been installed or fired therefore still new. if we installed it as it is and it self destructed, whose fault would that be?

the information about the motor is fact, the reference to their being mass assemblers rather than Custom high performance builders is my opinion.

[lotsof454sss]

I realize some people are reluctant to post for various reasons but they keep coming on board and we all realize the far reach this forum has into the racing world..This man in nearly all the post opinions has made a business mistake and then backed it with a personal attack on anyone that cares to post as he has lumped everyone together into 3 catagories according to his post..I also know that he has lost at least 3 orders that stated so on this forum and no telling how many we do not know about...This has become some of the most expensive "bad advertising' the man could have ever bought..I really hate to see someone shoot themselves in the foot by bad decisions and then backed them up by saying he would replace the block and reniging on that and blaming others as his reason...Sir, you have made your bed and therefore you are now lying in it...This many people can not be wrong and "you" as one person be right :!: :!: Let this be an example to the next problem child...

[mytmouz]

I like bacon...

[jbsjunk]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/carlwinslow12345/file.jpg

[slowman]

ttt

[lotsof454sss]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/carlwinslow12345/file.jpg

Man don't be posting stuff like this you are scaring my pig....probably not as scared or as excited as your avatar though...I always enjoyed that one...

[chevguy65]

Stay tuned,

another episode is on next....

[lively]

:( :( :( SUSPENCE!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[chevguy65]

Here is the last message exchange I had with the fine folks at dynoflo....

From: chevguy65 To: dynoflo Date: 2007-04-02 08:08:02
Subject: Re: 454 sbc
Re: Ad #809660
Message: Look, I am not threatening to slander anyone, I just want the facts.

He bought a completed and assembled short block, so why would he question your work (if your so reputable)when he assembled the rest of the engine?

If you assembled it, it is your responsibility to make it right, whether the rod bolt was under torqued or over torqued and stripped.

You may be a reputable company, but guess what, mistakes happen, maybe your second torque wrench guy stripped it and didn't say anything because the short block was already over due to go out.

I am just saying be man enough to make it right if your company made it's 1st mistake.

On [2007-04-01 22:45:30] chevguy65 wrote:
> " Thanks for accusing instead of asking what the facts are the way we see it and then drawing a conclusion from information from both sides.
> "
>
> I never accused I did ask.
> You say you NEVER had a failure and I find that hard to believe, everyone has.
>
> Now, I have also seen that your workmanship has been in question before, so again I find your story even harder to believe.
>
> I tried to have you defend yourself and explain what may have happened, instead you send me excuses and in your words, blame the other guy.
>
> You say you torque and re-torque the rod bolts, but obviously you dropped the ball on this one, otherwise the bolt would not have dropped in 8 minutes.
>
> This is the type of excuse making I have heard before from other so called builders.
>
>
> LOL, I just noticed you say you have no idea who I am talking about and then say "I did offer to check it out and tell them what I felt happened" so either you are lying or cannot keep your make believe seperated from reality.
>
> This is my opinion, based on what I have heard from both sides.
>
>
> On [2007-04-01 21:50:14] dynoflo wrote:
> > I do appreciate your desire to communicate in this fashion, about an issue that is quite simple. First I have no idea who the person is, as well as how long ago that they purchased this short block. however, i do know that things happen after these shortblocks that are shipped, and that the folks who work on them, may or may not know anything about what they are doing, i also know that these folks in their garages make a bunch of mistakes. Second and the part that is most important, We build these everyday. There is no one more familiar with these parts than us. We don't ever have any failures of these rods or their bolts, which leaves the torque procedure, which it seems that so many people cannot get right, but we actually follow the directions from arp on these fasteners, and then i have a second person with a second torque wrench double check all the torques on the engine prior to shipping. this avoids silly people making claims of our impropriety. so this does make the likelyhood that something else happened very likely. I did offer to check it out and tell them what I felt happened, but I guess it is easier to try to blame the other guy than step up to the plate. people do a bunch of stuff to their own stuff that they want to blame the world for their issues, and then they tell their friends to email stuff like this. Tell the "mechanic" to do his job right instead of pointing at everyone else. 8 minutes, you really have to suck to screw up that badly. I have very high standards of excellence and I can assure you that this won't be the first time I have been blamed for someone else's deal. Thanks for accusing instead of asking what the facts are the way we see it and then drawing a conclusion from information from both sides.
> >
> > On [2007-03-31 21:46:59] chevguy65 wrote:
> > > Hi, I have never dealt with you personally so this is coming second hand from a good friend that I feel is honest and would have no reason to lie to me.
> > >
> > > He has stated that you built one of these short blocks for him and after running for only 8 minutes it popped a rod bolt and chewed the engine. He also states you are unwilling to stand behind your work and make it right for this guy.
> > >
> > > If this is the case, how do you expect to stay in business, word travels fast in the racing community as well as the internet, perhaps you have seen the scammer section.
> > >
> > > I am in no way making threats, just giving you some advice and asking if this is true.
> > >
> > > Like I said I only have one side of the story and would like to hear yours.

[lively]

I THINK SCOTT IS NOT SEEING THE TRUE PICTURE HERE---------THE ROD DIDN'T FAIL FIRST--THE ROD BOLTS CAME LOOSE FROM NOT BEING TORQUED PROPERLY---PRETTY SIMPLE REALLY---JUST TAKE CARE OF IT AND I PERSONALLY WILL RECOMMEND DYNOFLO JUST FOR TAKING CARE OF THEIR CUSTOMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!----WAIT A MINUTE DAGNABIT--I AIN'T A PROFFESIONAL ENGINE BUILDER--GOLLY I AM TUPID A DUM :lol: :lol:

[slowman]

(((dynoflo said this,.We are the real deal and have been. we do this all in house.)) dynoflo your using those words very loosely your the real deal. please the only thing i see all over the internet is you don't stand behind your work and have made a ton of stupid mistakes. i guess that all those guys are wrong to. it's to bad that you not smart enough to see how many have already read the post and how many have turned away from you. it's only going to get worse and this is not going away you screw one you screw all. this could have only cost you 4000 but by the time this is over it could cost you in the tens of thuosands. you claim you have records big deal. the only records i see is the amount of times you screw something up and blame the other guy for it. AND AS FAR AS THE RECODS I WOULD BET MY LIFE ON IT THAT THERE IS NO ONE IN YOUR SHOP THAT CAN PORT A SET OF PRO STOCK HEADS AND MAKE THEM RIGHT. SO IF YOU DO HAVE A CAR OR A RECORD IN IHRA PROSTOCK IT DIDN'T COME FROM YOU. YOU NEED TO TELL WERE YOU GOT THE HEADS BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T DO THEM AND THERE NO WAY THEY CAME FROM IN HOUSE SO THERE'S ONE MORE LIE. IF YOU PUT THE ENGINE TOGATHER THEN LIKE WE HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG YOUR JUST THE GUY THAT BOLTS STUFF TOGATHER. I'M USING THE BOLT TOGATHER VERY VERY LOOSELY. YOU CAN ONLY SCREW SO MANY BEFORE IT COMES BACK AND BITS YOU IN THE REAR.

[lookingaround]

there has been 8610 people that has veiwed this port. that cant be good for buissness

[etbird]

Ouch!

[lotsof454sss]

uhhhhh Avery, I looked at it twice so reduce that by number by one, but I did tell 25 people about it in person so they would all know.....Does that still mean 8610 :?: :lol: :lol: Boy I would like to buy some "good advertising" for what this would have cost in the beginning to work with the customer in correcting the situation...This sure is a hell of a lot of "bad advertising" for a small amount it would have cost to eat a few parts out of $2 million in inventory.....Agreed anyone :?: Can I get ah 'Hell Yea"..................

[slowman]

hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllll yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa button stuck sorry

[vincef]

Good to see this info - I am having trouble with a diff engine builder I chose about a year ago - yes one year ago!!! I paid the guy upfront and he ran into financial problems and I have paid the ultimate price. No motor YET and out the money. Supposedly he is still working to make the deal right......long story that I previously posted in the Scammer section.

Motor is suppose to come soon- HOWEVER IF NEED BE AND I HAVE TO SELECT A NEW BUILDER WITH 100% CERTAINTY I WILL NOT BUY FROM DYNOFLO after reading the history and more importantly the responses from the owner.

Local builders will always work out best IMO.

[mikkey]

Scot I mean me being A side yard mechanic and all, I was just wondering WERE IS THE SPEC CARD ON THE WHOLE MOTOR AND BEING BALANCED AND BLUEPRINTED AND ALL< don't tell mee ya through it away????what did the mains plastigage out to? what were each rod????with the arp rod bolt, after torquing twice(ya right)How many time did you rotate assembly???Show us the spec card???They tought me this in side yard mechanic's aintch ya aver seen that, it's on saturday morning's,You affended alot of people buy your comment's, and I don't care If you have 5 guy's torque everything down, when that motor left your shop It should of had the no,1 grade A stamp on it ready to go!!come on 8 minute's come on????beleive me I've done my reseach and this is not the only unhappy customer you have had, and guess what _____It happens Be A man and rectify this situation,I'll tell ya one I was restoring A 68Z took two year'sbought the motor out of Hemming's buy the time it got to the shop somehow it had A crack in one cylinder the man said ya it's in the mail ya right Hemming's took him out of the book for one month and he called me cryin sayin how I hurt his bussiness,I told him If ya would of took care of me sooner this would not have happened, and beleive me IT'S HURTIN YOU NOW, :evil: :evil: SO IT GOES TO SHOW YA Can either be A man and work together to make this A good deal???or loose money in the long run,Ya Affended Alot Of Peaple!!!!!! I have 3 very nice rides at least that's what I'm told, built them all in the side yard, let's all just get along life's to short as it is!!!

[garceau]

A couple years ago when I was looking for a big cubic inch engine for my dragster at the time. I really was looking at dynoflo stuff.

I went on DRR and asked around, I did not hear one good thing about them. I tried to search the topic but it has been too long ago and DRR has since switched servers. But I remember one of the posts very well, it stated you wouldnt find any people in and around vegas using their products with much success or HP.

Now I dont know if any of that is true, but when I was looking to build, I asked around. I knew then I would go somewhere else.

[hammertime]

wow this topic has really took off

I wish drr didnt delete there was some good topics on there that really did tell the story about dynoflo also

[lotsof454sss]

About right now I would be re-considering my stand....As I said in an earlier post."All these people can not be wrong and ONE MAN be right"...Man this is like getting lynched and then they lynch ya again and again to make sure your dead....Southern Style....

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s286/loverly1_iam/Desperatlyovious.gif

[lookingaround]

9386 keeps climbing dnyo dude

[slowman]

9770 people and counting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lookingaround]

if nothing else we need to keep posting these numbers to keep this post on the top and not forgot about

[fastbowtie]

Well Scot Slotten Of DynoFlo Ive held off posting anything else lately Just to see if you might STEP UP and try to solve this but I geuss thats not the case .Ive given you several chances and Im giving you 1 more Tomorrow I will be going down to Southern Style Racing Engines to pick up the Breakdown Spec Sheet I already know what it says and Im Not just talking about the Rod bolts but even they were checked with A Stretch gauge .After hearing everything that George Pils at Southern Style Racing Engines Found I can understand Why you offered to do the Complete engine so we didnt have to check it out .But as I said before do to the way you handled this whole nightmare That Wasnt an Option.
I will be Scanning & posting the findings before the weekends out .and I would like to how you explain them. All I will say for now is that I hope for everyones sake that has ever purchased A Shortblock from you or anything else that was assembled at DynoFlo that their purchase was built far better than this 454ci SBC was .Scot If your hoping that all of this will just go away IT WONT

As A matter of fact Its just getting Started How About Satelite Radio
Shock Jocks Like Bubba The Love Sponge & Howard Stern can sure get a message out Loud & Clear .Think about it Scot Ive actaully held back on you really BUT time Is running out .And to think it really would have taken SO little at first to make all this go away .

[lookingaround]

not sounding good for dyno

[etbird]

Uh Oh!

[bjuice]

well i spoke with Don (fastbowtie) for 78 minutes tonight..whats that 1hr 18 minutes ??....i wanted to hear about the Dyno-flo conversation 1st hand....and trust me getting it 1st hand is sooo much worse then reading about this on the internet...

all i can say is this..Scott you would not have spoken to me in person the way you did Don on the phone..but after speaking with Don i do not think you would have spoke to him in person the way you did on the phone..i have been in the trenches and seen society at its worse and its best, being ex lawenforcement ..(city and state)...with this said i want to say "i know your type"..Soo many hero's who stand 7ft tall and 400lbs of pure muscle on the phone and computers...LOL....yeah i know your type.. 8) 8)

I also know what the final build sheet says that George pil wrote up and trust me your not gonna like this one bit....and you think it cost you some business before..well you ain't seen nothing yet if this sheet gets posted..and you want to know why?..cause anyone can make a mistake of not properly torquing some bolts..WE ALL SHADE TREE MECHANICS CAN RELATE TO THIS...and can over look and still buy from you...HOWEVER..WHAT THIS BUILD SHEET IS GOING TO UN-COVER IS GONNA SCARE AWAY ANY FANS THAT WERE STRADDLING THE FENCE WITH YOU ON THIS ISSUE..

now you know i was going to buy a shortblock from you here real soon..you got my PM'S to prove it..I CAN POST THEM ON HERE IF ANYONE DOUBTS ME..and this was long before this incident happened.

WELL YOU CAN REST ASSURE THIS THREAD JUST COST YOU ANOTHER $5400......


WHAT THE HECK..BELOW IS MY MESSAGE TO DYNO FLO I SENT BACK ON 3-25-07..REFERENCE TO A SHORTBLOCK PURCHASE..HERE IS MY PROOF IN CASE ANYONE ON HERE THAT MAY THINK I AM JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON..THIS WAS THE MAIN REASON I REMAINED QUITE FOR SOO LONG...PLEASE READ BELOW..I CAN POST HIS(SCOTT'S REPLY) IF ANYONES REQUEST..


From: bjuice To: dynoflo Date: 2007-03-25 16:02:44
Subject:
Re: Ad #809638
Message: Hello Scott; i am getting close to deciding what to order on my shortblock combo....Please give me a price on a standard deck 582...

i need this broke out part for part..i would like the complete shortblock..i want it to where all i need to do is bolt on my heads and intake...i assume you will degree the cam shaft into place and TDC will be located....

please give me the exact cost including shipping and the time frame involved..also i assume you take VISA for payment...

i am thinking 582ci..what kind of power do you think this conmbo will make with a set of bb2 heads ?...also i want the shortblock set up primarly for HORSEPOWER,,but if i wanted to spray it a 200 shot i would be ok...i just do not want to sacrifice a bunch of horsepower cause i DO NOT want an all all spray motor....also as of now i am using the conventional 24 degree heads..what would need to be done if i hever wanted to do with a Big duke,or big chief,RAy franks profiler heads down the road as my budget allows...

again the taxes are in and i am really trying to figure out my best route to go..feel free to throw your opinions my way...

thanks Brian

[lookingaround]

thats got to hurt to dyno. why is it so hard to say your not perfect and you made a mistake. we are all humans we make mistakes often if we admit it are not

[lotsof454sss]

Damn this just gets better...Only thing that would make this better is if I was in the engine building business...Always like to see the competition take a stumble and sales drop cause mine will go up...From all I have read this situtation is something that has happened to others but they just did not have the venue to really get it the attention it deserved...Well let me tell you, it has got it now...I bet that $2 million in inventory could stand to be reduced some now and put the funds back into operating capitol....I was one of the people insulted, even though I pay no attention to hog crap til I step in it, so I am getting my jollies now..."SO ROLL ON FASTBOWTIE ROLL ON"....

[fastbowtie]

Scot Slotten of DynoFlo
Incase you forgot My Tel# is 727-560-8549 and George Douklias,s
# is 727-463-8453 I suggest you call him first since it is his engine
All I need from you is an Apoligy
Because I dont let my wife talk to me the way you talked to me Why should I allow you to do it .
Apoligizing to the good people on this Website for what you have said about them is entirely up to you.
But I do reccomend it due to the thing you have said about everyone.
Donn Waters

[etbird]

I have to make some popcorn. This is getting good.

[maxpower671]

oh yeah! 100% certain no purchases from Dynoflow. pass it on!

[dirtpimp]

so.......... where is the crime scene investigation sheet , kinda tired of commercials i wanna see the show !!!!!!!!

[ash]

Donn, thanks for recommending to dyno that they appologize, not only to you but to us. If they are the "profesionals", I'm glad I'm a shade tree mechanic!!! :) The last motor I built in `86 is still running fine (a little tired, but still running!) Good talking to you the other day, Donn.

[fastbowtie]

Well guys I haven't posted the breakdown sheet and it looks like I won't be able to. The reason being is that Southern Style Racing Engines will not provide me with one due to possiblity of litigation due to the condeming nature of the findings.
I do see his point however it is A letdown for me. But here are some things that were found:
1 The Crankshaft was too light on the front throw Mallory was add to it to correctly ballence it .
2 All 8 connecting rods were not torqued only hand tight .
3 The Camshaft lockplate & thrust button were not installed correctly
4 Some if not most of the ring gaps were in excess of 0.020 thousandths.
5 Piston to pin clearances were only half a thousandths.
6 Rod to pin clearances were also half a thousandths .
They appear to have been removed from the boxes and assembled but never checked or properly Clearanced .

Yes this was A fairly inexpensive Shortblock when purchased 5 grand but there is No excuse for the shoddy workmanship even if it was a mass produced with the exception of the Pistons & camshaft that I requested it should have been built with a little more care .

As I said before in order to keep the cost down DynoFlo has to cut corners somewhere. Well we found out where the hardway.
ANYWAY It Still doesnt give Scot Slotten the rite to cut down people on this site or Me for that matter .

[chevguy65]

So,
Let me get this straight.....
A real engine builder...(take note Scot)...pulls the motor completely apart, and discovers all of the above mentioned items either done wrong or not done at all.

And yet Scot seems to want to blame you and everyone else under the sun.

In fact he has stated that it is your responsibility to make sure his work is done right, so you buy a inexpensive assembled shortblock, get it and tear it all down to ensure everything was done right and now your relatively cheap engine has just jumped up in cost, and if you have to re do any of Scot's work, another jump in cost, so where is the deal?

Buy from Scot and end up re-doing his sloppy work, or spend a few bucks more and get a quality engine done right...I will go with the latter.


And to think, all Scot had to do was be a man and step up for a mistake he made and all this would have gone away....hell an apology for acting like an ass and it all would have gone away, but unfortunately he has short man's disease and needs to be an asshole to make up for his lack of height and the fact he can't see over the steering wheel of his car without a pillow to sit on.

jmho

[nakamura1336]

anyone else got this email????

May 3, 2007
Dyno-Flo
Scot Slotten
1180 Center Point Drive Suite B
Henderson, NV 89074
Phone:(702)567-3035
Fax:(702)567-3036

To: Jay Nakamura
[email protected]
[email protected]

Email sent 5/3/2007


URGENT:

Cease and Desist with Malicious Content found on multiple sites

Dear Sirs,
It has come to our attention that you are allowing defaming and slanderous material about Dyno-Flo and Scot Slotten to be posted on your site while facilitating its distribution. This letter constitutes a demand for immediate retraction of these false and
libelous statements to be accompanied with written confirmation that neither you or your company will facilitate this malicious and false information to be repeated.

Specific Location of said Material: Multiple pages
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/80760912/m/7151050882?r=1841055882#1841055882

http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/80760912/m/8321032372?r=8321032372#8321032372

http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/75460652/m/1721050582?r=6031061582#6031061582

http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/75460652/m/1721050582?r=2981012882#2981012882

http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/80760912/m/8321032372?r=7821062372#7821062372

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2456


Your failure to correct your erroneous and false statements and their repetition after notice of their falsehood constitutes further publication of libel. It also confirms your malicious intent. If after 48 hours of receiving this letter you do not remove the requested
material, and cease and desist from tortuous interference and making false and malicious comments about Dyno-Flo, it's officers, and its programs, we will file suit against you seeking to recover all damages and costs associated with this matter. Please govern yourself accordingly. We appreciate your sense of urgency in seeking to resolve this matter. Please send all correspondence to 1180 Center Point Drive Suite B, Henderson, NV 89074

Sincerely yours,


Scot Slotten
Owner, Dyno-flo, LLC

Encl: Copy of Material and Posting




THANKS FOR YOUR INQUIRY
IF YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS THE BEST WAY TO REACH US FOR INFO OR PAYMENT TO
DYNOFLO ;
WWW.DYNOFLO.COM
1180 CENTER POINT DR
HENDERSON, NV 89074
PHONE (702)567-3035
FAX (702)567-3036

OUR HIGH PERFORMANCE SALES STAFF IS EAGER TO ASSIST YOU;

[mcracecars]

Holy Moly :lol: , Thanks for the links... looks like a lot of guys not happy with this dude...
That letter is from Scot himself, not even from his lawyer :shock:
Cease and disist letters come for lawyers.
It aint slander if it is true.... :lol:

[lotsof454sss]

uhhhhh Avery, I looked at it twice so reduce that by number by one, but I did tell 25 people about it in person so they would all know.....Does that still mean 8610 :?: :lol: :lol: Boy I would like to buy some "good advertising" for what this would have cost in the beginning to work with the customer in correcting the situation...This sure is a hell of a lot of "bad advertising" for a small amount it would have cost to eat a few parts out of $2 million in inventory.....Agreed anyone :?: Can I get ah 'Hell Yea"..................

I said it before and I will now say it again....Plus I can see I must have been right, "AGAIN"...So I will gloat in silence now.... :lol:

...Also I would think it took alot of time out of torqueing bolts to go look up every where you have sc____ up....

[fastbowtie]

I found this Post
Scot Do you see A pattern here

http://home.comcast.net/~britz5/Dyn.htm

[fastbowtie]

I also Really LIkE this post this post so I joined & posted myself

http://www.lvfbody.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25617

[lively]

BOYS AND GIRLS IT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR SCOTT---THE PRESSURE IS ON IN ALOT OF PLACES- PRETTY SOON HE WILL TRY A CLASS ACTION SUIT AGAINST EVERYONE THAT HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS ENGINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THAT WOULD BE A BIG SUIT :shock: :shock: :shock:

[lotsof454sss]

If this guy thinks he can bulldog over everyone I am afraid he is in for another lesson....YOU NEED TO CUT YOUR LOSES BUB :!: He will need a whole army of lawyers and he should get some that were better at sueing than the ones that sued craigslist.com...Hell they owe craigslist a ton in lawyer fees now on top off getting their ass kicked in court...What a joke and making himself look worse all the time.... Get a judge to sign that email and then maybe you got something but til then......Anyone want to buy a engine building company at bankrupt prices :?:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/boho27/bull.jpg

[Ace437]

Mitch Believe what you want Like I said If there is doubt call the Owner who checked them at SSRE the phone # is in a prior post .Hindsight is 20/20 If I would have known about any problems with DynoFlo Yes I would have checked them but we felt confident in their motors .So what you are saying is even though You ,I or anyone else that purchases a motor from a builder it,s our responcibility to recheck everything we paid them to do :?: Well maybe Im wrong for not checking them and putting my confidence in DynoFlo but regaurdless it should have been done rite the first time .This post wasnt brought over to the Scammer section from the General section To just complain about the Hand tight Rod Bolts from DynoFlo But also to show how I was treated over the phone and in emails by Scot Slotten just for implying that one of his motors had A loose Rod Bolt and asking what he would do about it.I will admit I did not put A torque wrench on the bottom End except to torque the oil pump bolt .If you want to think that I am in the wrong for not rechecking their work thats OK because it should have been done correctly at DynoFlo.

Dude, it sucks that you got screwed, but your posts are very painful to read. You need to learn to type and use some more punctuation.

[slowman]

yah you dumb hick learn to spell. never mind you got screwed.

[lookingaround]

BOYS AND GIRLS IT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR SCOTT---THE PRESSURE IS ON IN ALOT OF PLACES- PRETTY SOON HE WILL TRY A CLASS ACTION SUIT AGAINST EVERYONE THAT HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS ENGINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THAT WOULD BE A BIG SUIT :shock: :shock: :shock:
i think if had that many law suits going the courts might just catch on to the idea of him screwing people and flip the suit on him

[lookingaround]

Mitch Believe what you want Like I said If there is doubt call the Owner who checked them at SSRE the phone # is in a prior post .Hindsight is 20/20 If I would have known about any problems with DynoFlo Yes I would have checked them but we felt confident in their motors .So what you are saying is even though You ,I or anyone else that purchases a motor from a builder it,s our responcibility to recheck everything we paid them to do :?: Well maybe Im wrong for not checking them and putting my confidence in DynoFlo but regaurdless it should have been done rite the first time .This post wasnt brought over to the Scammer section from the General section To just complain about the Hand tight Rod Bolts from DynoFlo But also to show how I was treated over the phone and in emails by Scot Slotten just for implying that one of his motors had A loose Rod Bolt and asking what he would do about it.I will admit I did not put A torque wrench on the bottom End except to torque the oil pump bolt .If you want to think that I am in the wrong for not rechecking their work thats OK because it should have been done correctly at DynoFlo.

Dude, it sucks that you got screwed, but your posts are very painful to read. You need to learn to type and use some more punctuation.

get a life dynoblow butt kisser

[lookingaround]

Mitch Believe what you want Like I said If there is doubt call the Owner who checked them at SSRE the phone # is in a prior post .Hindsight is 20/20 If I would have known about any problems with DynoFlo Yes I would have checked them but we felt confident in their motors .So what you are saying is even though You ,I or anyone else that purchases a motor from a builder it,s our responcibility to recheck everything we paid them to do :?: Well maybe Im wrong for not checking them and putting my confidence in DynoFlo but regaurdless it should have been done rite the first time .This post wasnt brought over to the Scammer section from the General section To just complain about the Hand tight Rod Bolts from DynoFlo But also to show how I was treated over the phone and in emails by Scot Slotten just for implying that one of his motors had A loose Rod Bolt and asking what he would do about it.I will admit I did not put A torque wrench on the bottom End except to torque the oil pump bolt .If you want to think that I am in the wrong for not rechecking their work thats OK because it should have been done correctly at DynoFlo.

Dude, it sucks that you got screwed, but your posts are very painful to read. You need to learn to type and use some more punctuation.

oh yeah english class isn't till tomorrow night. so if you dont care come back then and teach

[slowman]

what lookingaround said. what does spelling have to do with being screwed by a bad engine builder. so don mispelled some words it's all the truth.

[lively]

HEY--HE MAYBE CAN'T SPELL RIGHT BUT I THUNK HEE COOD BIUD ANN INGEN THATT HD A PROPER :lol: :lol: TORQUE SPEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!KEEP IT UP DON 8) 8)

[slowman]

what lively said i think!!!!!!

[dilly]

I would say it was not clearanced properly or if it was an iron eagle block they never drilled for oil returns ?

[mcracecars]

dilly, read throught the whole post, you will be amazed...

[grenade]

Wow, this is not the first time I have heard this. I know of a few other dynoblo problems. Another SBC 434, or 454 that the rod bolts were only hand tight. Car didnt make it 5 minutes.

Its funny when friends say its ok to buy parts from there, but dont even think about having them build something for you..

Talk about service.

[GBoven72]

Wow. I read the whole thing. From someone that would not ever buy a motor from them any way heres my take, and my opinion. Some one scewed the pooch. Scott mite want to try a marker. Every time my motor builder tightens a bolt he puts a slash on it. So after going over them twice there is an X on every bolt head. Easy to see if you missed one or what ever. < Simple and fool prof. Two guys doing the same motor is just bad news to me. To many cooks in the kitchen. And way to easy to get mixed up if doing more then one motor at a time. Who's to say they didn't do one motor 4 times and missed the one right next to it completely. I can tell from the pics the rod bolt fell out thats a givin. I can also tell the motor is still new. So ask your self: Why would a guy loosin the bolts on the rods and then put it all togather, take the time to put it in the car. Do all the plumbing and wiring. And then start the car? Makes no sence at all, none. Scott I hate to say it but if I'm on the jury your f*cked. Cut your losses and fix the mans motor.

[shwtime]

wow i cant believe how this thread has taken off i ck this thread every day to see if any one has added to it boy i have to say in the big engine world its hard to get your name out there as to who is good and who to use for your builder and giving your hard earned cash to ive got to say i personnaly spoke to scotts counter man 4 weeks ago about purchasing a 347 ford stroker motor as their prices are cheap and i did ask are the parts blems ?????why so cheap ????? he assured me top of the line and they sell tons and ship every day then i ran across this thread and started reading and also links to other sites i did not know even existed and boy many unhappy people i also notice when someone complains of a probem its never dyno flo its the manafacture prob refering to the locktite ordeal on another site !!! i can not believe this has been let go this long how can you poss think this did not happen in your shop ive looked at every pic motor looks dead new in my opinion i would straiten out this mess put it behind you ------ bad news travels fast !! way faster than good news just my 2 cents worth

[lotsof454sss]

This man can do no wrong so he thinks...When he shuts the doors on a bankrupt business it will not be his fault but all of the customers caused it...He is perfect, it is just the rest of the world that is wrong, and the customer is always wrong regardless of the circumstance involved...$2 million in inventory my ass is what I say, cause your either going to have to do alot of making up or your looking at being a yard mechanic just like the rest of us...That is the term I think you used or I guess I am wrong, huh DYNOCRAP.....

[chevguy65]

This man can do no wrong so he thinks...When he shuts the doors on a bankrupt business it will not be his fault but all of the customers caused it...He is perfect, it is just the rest of the world that is wrong, and the customer is always wrong regardless of the circumstance involved...$2 million in inventory my ass is what I say, cause your either going to have to do alot of making up or your looking at being a yard mechanic just like the rest of us...That is the term I think you used or I guess I am wrong, huh DYNOCRAP.....

He called us back yard mechanics, but I know one hell of alot of so-called back yard mechanics that put scot and his group to shame, at least they know how to torque rod bolts, and they know you have to clearence parts to put in a block, sounds from other links I have read that scott just takes the parts and slops them into a block and calls it done.

I have talked with several racers as well as custom rodders in my area about scot and his company, many have already known about his crappy engines and others were happy to find out what kind of crap he puts out.
One guy is in the market for an engine and plans on 800hp and spending over 10 grand to get it, but he will not be looking to scot to build it.

To bad he just can't get over his bad ass midget complex (no offense to little people) and get real and do the right thing for once.

[slowman]

i agree with chevy65, if anyone looks at the work don (fastbowtie) does it's very clear that the work is very nice. even if he's a back yard mech or side yard he has more class and ability then scott will ever have. the back yard mech term is throwen around alot in this site and all i have to say is ho didn't start out in the back yard. if dynoflo is some great company and have records in all kinds of different classes then why is it scott can't even qualfie in the top five in his class. one would think if he is so good the blazer would be faster. scott, all the sites and all the people that you broke it off in there rear will and are coming for you. i don't speak for everyone on this site but if you would just crawl under a rock and stay there i think everyone would be happer. in your case you could walk under a rock. i beleave your just pissed that you have to shop for your pants at kids are us.

[trose]

IT IS TO FAST AND NEEDS A DYNOFLO MOTOR IN IT
http://www.racingjunk.com/post/880685/AT-LEAST-2hp-AND-COULD-BE-4hp.html

[RonOwensRacing]

be careful that's dirty language you may get your mouth wash out with soap . just kidding . boy old dyno just don't know what he got himself into does he. :)

[lotsof454sss]

be careful that's dirty language you may get your mouth wash out with soap . just kidding . boy old dyno just don't know what he got himself into does he. :)

Oh yea he knows...There is just not a damn thing he can do about it :!: You show your ass and people get a picture of it and it is there forever.....Well we all got the picture and now it is in the enlargement stage and soon released on every big screen...Now showing in every racers garage, circle track, drag, mud, boat, hill climb, pulling, you name it, they know about it...

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s175/Skyler89/writting.png

[mikkey]

Scot,Now it is your turn to do the right thing, take care of you customer's, I have read all the post's on this site, and A few on other site's, do you expect this issue to just go away(NOT)And buy the way you don't just owe (fastbowtie) an apology, you owe this whole site an apology for your comment's. you have made,If ya don't I will go with my gutt fealing,you are lower then A snake's belly in A wagon's wheel rutt :P :P buy the way where is the spec sheet on this motor, you should have every spec there is on this motor(blue printing and balancing)and all???????

[RonOwensRacing]

what was your favorite word 454 wasn't it remember pace. :lol:

[lotsof454sss]

what was your favorite word 454 wasn't it remember pace. :lol:

You mean as in PACE AMERICAN TRAILERS :?: Yea and I bet they hope I never start on them again about that one style of crappy trailer they palmed off on their customers and will not make them all good...It takes an act of this site to get a mans trailer repaired...

[chevguy65]

Scot,Now it is your turn to do the right thing, take care of you customer's, I have read all the post's on this site, and A few on other site's, do you expect this issue to just go away(NOT)And buy the way you don't just owe (fastbowtie) an apology, you owe this whole site an apology for your comment's. you have made,If ya don't I will go with my gutt fealing,you are lower then A snake's belly in A wagon's wheel rutt :P :P buy the way where is the spec sheet on this motor, you should have every spec there is on this motor(blue printing and balancing)and all???????

Scot does not seem to know how to take care of a customer anymore than he knows how to torque a rod bolt, or clearence a piston, or gap a ring. In fact the only thing I have seen him be able to do is blame others for his screw ups and call people names. Oh and admit that he is an a-hole.


Not what I would want on my resume.
That or sawed off little runt.

[RonOwensRacing]

ya man I'm sure they don't the friend of mine that bought one of there engines last year is pulling it apart after i told him about this thread he read it and decided not to trust it his car will be done in a few weeks so he has time to tear it down and check it out i think he got scared and don't blame him i will let everybody know what the results are on it i cant wait to see myself.

[trose]

i was just interested in seeing what they would tell me about a big block motor for my dirt car, and here it is.

From: dynoflo To: trose Date: 2007-05-11 15:05:26
Subject: Re: MOTOR
Re: Ad #860226
Message: Interesting. We can substitute the alum block for an extra 3100.00 on the listed engine, if you need a different layout, that has more of a circletrack style power band we can adjust that for you, the price would be the same. By the way, Just because someone says something, doesn't mean that it is true. Now we ship our shortblocks with a sheet that has the tq specs, and a signature on the 2 different people who checked the tq and a note that tells you to do it again. Not because I feel we have any problem, but because people will do anything to point the blame at someone else. On the dynoed engines, we run those for about an hour prior to shipping, so as with all my dynoed engines, we still have never had one where the rod bolts were loose. I suspect yours would be no different. Thanks Scot

On [2007-05-11 11:39:41] trose wrote:
> HAS ALL OF THE BOLTS BEEN CHECKED THEN RECHECKED. I AM LOOKING FOR A BIG BLOCK ALUM MOTOR TO TRY IN A DIRT LATE MODEL :o :o :lol:

[chevguy65]

LMAO......Scot I think your so full of shit your midget eyes are brown.

"Not because I feel we have any problem, but because people will do anything to point the blame at someone else."

LOL, now guys, let me tell you something.
In psychiatry, it has been proven that if someone tells him/herself a lie long enough, in their mind it becomes true. This is apparently what has happened to Scot.

Even with all the proof in the world, and not just from Donn's deal, but from many others as well, Scot has not got the balls to man up and admit he is no more than an engine assembler and a piss poor one at that.

My opinions have not changed since day one when I emailed him and all he could do is point fingers and blame others without any explanation of how HIS assembled shortblock could have failed so miserably.

Scot, you sir are nothing but a pussy and a liar in my opinion.

[RonOwensRacing]

now if chevy guy would only say what he really thinks
go get em buddy i cant believe after all the people that has posted stuff on this guy he still believes He's god or something better than that
He's got his self convinced now still trying convince everyone else he is god.

[mcracecars]

now if chevy guy would only say what he really thinks
Yeah Carl, quit beating around the bush and get to the point, we are not mind readers you know.... :lol:
Lets keep this thread alive as long as we can..... :shock:

[mikkey]

Scot, your A legend in your own mind, READ BACK IN SCAMMER SECTION This is not your first mistake, just read through the section this is not the first post in this section?????CORRECT, about your business???? lack of sale's hurt's,Don't it,You know this deal isn't done YOU STILL HAVE TIME TO SAVE FACE BUT, YOU HAVE ALREADY TOLD EVERYONE THAT YOU ARE A ASS WHOLE SO I STILL DONT EXPECT YOU TO DO THE RIGHT THING, It just isn't in you, Have A great day idiot,buy the way I moved all my stuff from the back yard to the front so everyone can see how bad of work I really do!!! :D

[lively]

NOW CARL---LET US TAKE A DEEEEEEP BREATH AND SEARCH ALL OUR INNER FEELINGS AND THEN CHECK THE AURA AROUND US[ NOW JUST EXPRESS YOURSELF AND LET US KNOW THE TRUE MEANING OF BEING UPSET AT LIARS AND LOWLIFE SCUMSUCKING CROOKS]----- :x :x :x

[real3fann]

I read about problems with Dynoflo 3-4 years ago on this site, and it was the same complaints about thier engines failing and them (Dynosuck) not standing behind it.. One guys storie said he even drove to their shop and picked his Completey assmbled and dyno tested eng up and it still blew up on the first pass and Scott blaimed eveyone but his own co. Sad to think 4 years later they are still doing business :shock:

[Taxman]

Crap this is a long thread. I read the 1st 12 pages and my eyes are hurting.
I was also going to buy a motor from Dynoflo and now I'm glad I didnt. I bought a Reher Morrison 522 instead. I'm glad I stepped up and spent the extra cash instead of trying to save a buck. I was looking at thier 582 for much less money than my 522. I also have a riend that I crew cheif on that was going to buy from them as well and now will not.

I am a business owner myself in the custom home market. I warranty all my instalations and materials for 1 year which is standard. I'll fix anything that fails free of charge and most of the time even fix problems that arent mine for free as well. After the year is up I still make free repairs that I know will not affect my pocket book very much, just so the builders stay happy and I keep getting new referrals. My builders love me and I'm proud of that fact. When it comes down to it, I'd rather spend a few dollars than to lose a lot a money from future work that I didnt get. I do 3 million a year in business so a repair that cost me a few hundred or even a thousand isnt a big deal to me. I just do it and move on. I've had repairs that werent my fault that cost me 3k plus but the builder was happy and I since made several hundred thousand from the same builder which I would have lost if the repair wasnt done. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do the right thing.

The right thing here is replace the shortblock completely. INCLUDING anything else that may have been damaged as a result of the failure. I understand the date of sale issue from Dynoflo. BUT. You have the pictures of the engine and it's VERY apparent that this motor doesnt have any runs on it.

I had an engine builder that I used in the past just for our machine work on our parts and we assembled them. We never blew a motor up in nearly 20 years. This is in my stock car days running late model asphalt cars. Anyway this builder-machinest did not reinstall the oil gally plug that is in the block that cant really be seen very well. We built the motor and went to the track. Spun a bearing pretty quick. Oil pressure was good but the oil was being bypassed back to the filter and not getting into the motor where it needed to be. He did not help with the rebuild and said we should have checked this ourselves. HE was paid to do a job and failed at that. We never used him again. He is now out of business.

Another builder installed new springs and a set of heads that had a broken spring already. I made 1 pass and broke another spring. He replaced all the springs again and did not charge me a dime for anything. Whether the mistake was his or the spring manufacture, he took care of me. He'll always get my business and does do work on all our motors that we dont take back to the builder for freshens or major work. All because of his customer service.

So Scott. Bite that bullet and do the right thing. Pictures are worth thousands of words. I'm sure the damage done here to your future sales might hurt a little "very little", but you can make it hurt a bit less by making your customers happy and taking responsibility for the mistake. I guess about 100k in sales have been lost due to this thread alone. Over 30k in my teams sales alone.

Mistakes do happen all the time. No one is perfect. We dont expect them to be. We just want honesty and for someone to be trustworthy.

[killerpromod]

Whats the latest?

[fastbowtie]

It,s coming guys I just want to make sure I have the data to back it all up .
But I will tell ya that we just found out the 454ci DynoFlo sbc is not A 454ci
It,s A 441ci
It only has A 4.125 bore not A 4.185 bore
I would like to know where the other 13 cubic inchs went that was ordered and paid for :?:

[topsportsman1]

This build sheet says its a 454,Its from Scot's company.

So if Scot says its a 454 then it must be true,He says he builds these every day


http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/001.jpg

[fastbowtie]

So Scot if This shortblock left you shop as A 454ci 4.185 bore + 4.125 stroke
How did we shrink the Bore down to 441 cubic inches 4.125 + 4.125 stroke :?:

We repaired the block You sent us and it still has the same serial number on it as when it left Dart and arrived at Dynoflo and then sent to us as A 454 shortblock .
So tell me and everybody else How did we shrink the Bore :?:
You called me Ignorant and uneducated
maybe so due to the fact that Myself & George Douklias trusted you to supply us with an engine of reasonable Quality.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/fastbowtie1/001.jpg

[mcracecars]

The same two guys that check the torque, also check the bore :shock:
Now he will have to add a disclaimer note along with the customer to check the torque, to also check the bore diameter...

[chevguy65]

Holy Cow!!!!!!

Now not only has Scot not done a good job building the engine, he has mis-represented what it was.....hmmmmm....you know, what he did before was just plain bad business but mis-representation is a big no no in the eyes of the courts.

In my opinion Scot is setting himself up for a class action....wonder how many others have checked to see if what they bought is actually what they got :?:

Since he won't reply I wonder what his excuse would be for this one, or how he can blame you or George for it.

Just my opinions based on the facts before me.

[topsportsman1]

Why is this engine so much cheaper than yours?Did you have extra upgrades?

http://www.racingjunk.com/post/809660/447-454-quot-SBC-SHORTBLOCK-assembled-new-.html

[mcracecars]

fastbowtie got the smaller bore/piston upgrade :shock:

[bjuice]

Why is this engine so much cheaper than yours?Did you have extra upgrades?

http://www.racingjunk.com/post/809660/447-454-quot-SBC-SHORTBLOCK-assembled-new-.html


heyehee..what ed said...

neahh really they ordered the complete shortblock, cam,oil pump,oil pan etc....vs what is advertised without all of that extra stuff

Shafiorff does the same thing..but calls the complete verison the DELUXE shortblock...i sort of hate using Shafiroff's name in the same subject ..I have heard some bad things there too but nothing close to what i have heard on this thread....the ad looks really good when you 1st glance.. wow !!!!! $4100 for a short block...but as you see it turns out to be $5400...etc...when in fact you can have very respectable builders such as PAR racing to do you a shortblock for about $300 more...call them and check it out for yourself....864-578-5622


i do believe one thing has been accomplished here...its the Biggest "largest replied to thread on RJ history..i do not see it being passed anytime soon.

over 18 thousand hits...lol..i know its some of the same people coming in and out but its still a freaky ton of exposure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

brian

[SVRE]

Looks like another case of bad buisness to me. Selling a lot for a little is a good way to get your rear in the sling! If you dont make any money on things, you simply cant make things right if you ever have a problem. I work in the engine room of a nascar nextel cup shop and build drag engines on the side. I have always looked at their ads and wondered "how do they get by selling things so cheap?" I mean, to do GOOD work it takes a little extra time and you can see by his prices, he dont have time to mess around! Time is money in a machine/race engine shop. All that labor for (i think it said) $185.00?
Balance rotating assembly (large stroke at that)
Debur block
Hone block
Check the deck
Mill the deck
Double check darts main line
Clearance block
wash block
Install cam bearings
pin fit the pistons and rods
fit bearing clearance
debur bearings
degree camshaft
fit rings

Just seems like an awefull lot of work for 185.00!!

Man, pay for good work and you cant go wrong!
Everyone makes mistakes. I missed the p to v on a 557 ford for a customer once. Dont know how it happined ( I think the dowl pins were bottomed out). Just got in a hurry and didnt check EVERY LITTLE THING. But I bought him new pistons, rings, new block, valves, and completely fixed that engine for him. I have since freshened it twice. He is a very happy return customer. Humans have errors. But the main thing is I faced up and did what was right. I wanted to fix it, I was embarused! But, if I had only charged him 500.00, I could not have fixed it.

Im not sure if he dont want to fix that small block, I just wonder if he has the capitol too??

Bad Bad Buisness.

Time is money, save the customer money on labor by being efficient. Not being in a hurry.

[fastbowtie]

I sent Scot the email below yesterday morning and he replied back to me around 5pm .Whats funny is he says George is displeased with me
Thats funny George is My Best friend and by the time he finished reading it it had him scratchin his head .


From: fastbowtie To: dynoflo Date: 2007-05-17 10:06:33
Subject: Scot
Re: Ad #809660
Message: Scot
I strongly suggest that you contact George Pils at southern Style Racing Engines PH# 727-546-7000
About the 454ci sbc
That you sold George Douklias & I
It appears that not only was it incorectly assembled but It,s also Not A 454ci Engine with A 4.185 bore
It,s A 441ci with A 4.125 bore .

And I really hope you dont try to claim that we switched blocks or anything else .We traced the serial # on the block that you sold us back to you and can prove that it wasnt switched .Mr Douklias & I dont plan on sueing you Though we should .
We think it,s better to inform everyone And show just how you treat your problems and the work that comes out of DynoFlo .

You have cut down & belittled me & many other people in your post,s even to the point of slander here on Racing Junk and I personally dont like it.

The way you have handled this whole ordeal borders on insanity .I have given you several chances and even the Moderator told you if you tried to settle this He would delete the intire Thread and all you did was Yell at him in caps.

This problem IS NOT going away by trying to ignore it or sending letters to Racing Junk or other web sites threatening them to remove post,s about You & DynoFlo .

Its going to take you growing some nuggets and owning up to the fact that your company can A mistake and make it rite with everyone involved or have publicly trashed on the internet because you have really shot yourself in the foot on this one .

Donn Waters 727-560-8549

Here is Scot,s reply

From: dynoflo To: fastbowtie Date: 2007-05-17 17:00:03
Subject: Re: Scot
Re: Ad #809660
Message: George Duklias and I already spoke together about you, and boy is he not pleased with you. I have someone else handling the internet issues, and they will get it fixed. I am no longer going to involve myself in these issues, since, of course, these issues are completely out there and not worthy of a response. George is regretting not having me fix the engine [remember that? that is called stepping up.], though he does feel that George Pils is a good guy. My customers know how to read through the stories on the internet, and actually sales are up as a result, they call to have me explain it, then they laugh about you or Jay and then they buy from me. The truth is a powerful tool. Someday you may get to the point to understand, how you and your buddies discredit yourselves to my benefit. I have given more shop tours in the last few weeks than in a long time. Once you get the tour,see the parts, see the equipment, see the people, see the shop you are going to buy. Just that simple.

Scot Here is A hint you giving Japaniese Tourists shop tours dont count
I just had to say that before someone else did :lol:

[mcracecars]

maybe if he spent more time checking that the work is done right and less time on shop tours, he would not have these problems.

[etbird]

You'll notice he never did address the c.i. difference.