Fuel System - gas and alcohol

Old 08-31-2007, 08:10 AM
  #31  
curtisreed
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Originally Posted by davis419b
Curtis, This post was not meant for you it was meant for George, my mistake i should have adressed it to George,Sorry! I have plenty of friends who run belt drive pumps with the tank in the rear of door cars with no problems. One friend of mine runs a 56 Chevy with a 468. Rupert 1050 and enderle belt drive pump with 144 jets and i have seen him repeat 6 and 7 times in a row. Hell i have seen him repeat to the thousand 4 times in a row. Again that post was not meant for you. It is your car and you can do whatever you want with it. I just didnt like George telling me i was wrong when i run the fuel system you were asking about and he does not. Thank You, Don
Hey I'm sorry I misunderstood. All us Okies and Texans at the racetracks have to get along, there is enough bad blood on the football fields. LOL I hope to catch you at a race someday and say hi.

Curtis
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:35 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by davis419b
I just didnt like George telling me i was wrong when i run the fuel system you were asking about and he does not.
Don,

We were originally talking about carb jetting and then you got on this fuel pump tangent. I have said in my previous posts that my findings were based on my own experiences and that "in general" a smaller motor will take a larger jet with the same sized carb than a larger motor. They're are just too many variables that determine how much air a motor can pull from one motor to the next BUT I think that if you take your carb off your 565 and put that same carb with the same jets on say a 434, the 434 will need to be jetted up. The statement you made where I definately think you are wrong is below:

Originally Posted by davis419b
Find me someone who is running that big of jet with a belt drive pump, you wont.
I know guys who are running belt drive pumps with larger jets on smaller motors. The guy I mentioned who was running the 209 jets runs a bolaws pump on a 434 small block. As I said before, the carb doesn't care where the fuel comes from or how it got there. The bowls just need to be full. That's why I said I didn't want to get in a pizzing contest about which pump is best. They both, belt driven and electric, can be made to work. What's best for you is not neccessarily best for me or someone else where the configuration of the car won't allow for either the mounting of the pump or the tank or convenient access to a front mounted tank. I, too, have been told not to run a belt driven pump with a rear mounted tank but if it works for you then, hey, that's great.

Don't get your panties in a wad just because someone disagrees with you. Hell, you disageed with me and you don't see me getting an attitude. The starter of this thread wanted options. I gave him options that work. How do I know they work? Because I'm doing the same thing. How do I know that a 154 jet is probably too lean? Because I have already tried running them. How do I know that 184 jets are the correct jet for my motor? Because on a 95* day on a 1/8th mile pass, 1109 on the EGT and a pickup in water temp of 7*. Again, just my experiences. Your mileage may vary.

George
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:01 AM
  #33  
davis419b
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Like the others mentioned tough, it's NOT good to start an alky engine unless you can get the water temp up to about 210 before you cut it off as there's not enough heat to help dry it out otherwise. One more thing I do is to prop open the throtle blades to allow inside the cylinders to dry out also. I've pulled more than one alky engine down and found rust pits in the cylinder walls and valve seats. A little WD-40 also helps down the intake while rolling the engine over with the starter.


This is a quote from Ken on your website under Fuel Systems
You know George after reading some of the post on your website i can see where you are coming from, like this one from your buddy Ken!!!!

I would never dream of getting my water temp up to 210 degrees for any reason.
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:36 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by davis419b
I would never dream of getting my water temp up to 210 degrees for any reason.
OK. I'll bite. Care to tell me why? I'm always up for learning something new.

George
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:19 PM
  #35  
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This should possibly be in a seperate post but I think your topic of discussion may apply to my questions. A friend of mine has a 2850# door car that has a 460” BBC on Alcohol and runs 9.30-9.40’s @3500’ and 9teens @ sea level. It has never ran quite as good as we feel it should. He is using his existing gas delivery system, a rear mounted BG400, ½ line @ 28#’s to the front of the car, regulated to 11#’s dead headed at the bowls. It drops to about 9 #’s though the top end. The EGT’s are always over 1200c at the 1/8 th and 1300 to 1320 at the ¼. The probes are 4” from the header flange. It has an out of the box 1095 Alcohol Demon, but he recently went up to 200 mains. The car picked up a little but the EGT’s are still hot. It has allway had a slight flutter at the top end (even after freshening the motor). Do you think that it is still a bit lean on the main, or is it possible that his gas based delivery system isn’t keeping the bowls full. I would think that 9#'s is 9#'s.
Details of the powertrain: 335CNC AFR heads, Reher-Morrison Super Victor CNC intake, 1095 Demon Alcohol carb, Bullet roller .830/.775 283/294 110LC in at 108ILC, 13:1, 38degrees total, 2 ¼”X28 3 ½”collector, 1.80 low gear set, 4:88 rear, 103 rollout tire, 7500 through the lights.
What do you think of the 1095 Demon on Alcohol. Do they work well out of the box, or is it worth the money to have it reworked by ProSystems or Rupert or ??? Would a Holley reworked by one of these guys perform better? What about a smaller plenum intake (ie RM Funnel Ram) to avoid puddling. Smaller 2 1/8” primaries”.
I like the vacuum to the regulator spring housing idea. Way to simple. We will do the reg mod for the weekend, and he has bigger mains coming as well. Just looking for some suggestions for down the road.
Thanks Tom
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:41 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by ThomasL
This should possibly be in a seperate post but I think your topic of discussion may apply to my questions. A friend of mine has a 2850# door car that has a 460” BBC on Alcohol and runs 9.30-9.40’s @3500’ and 9teens @ sea level. It has never ran quite as good as we feel it should. He is using his existing gas delivery system, a rear mounted BG400, ½ line @ 28#’s to the front of the car, regulated to 11#’s dead headed at the bowls. It drops to about 9 #’s though the top end. The EGT’s are always over 1200c at the 1/8 th and 1300 to 1320 at the ¼. The probes are 4” from the header flange. It has an out of the box 1095 Alcohol Demon, but he recently went up to 200 mains. The car picked up a little but the EGT’s are still hot. It has allway had a slight flutter at the top end (even after freshening the motor). Do you think that it is still a bit lean on the main, or is it possible that his gas based delivery system isn’t keeping the bowls full. I would think that 9#'s is 9#'s.
Details of the powertrain: 335CNC AFR heads, Reher-Morrison Super Victor CNC intake, 1095 Demon Alcohol carb, Bullet roller .830/.775 283/294 110LC in at 108ILC, 13:1, 38degrees total, 2 ¼”X28 3 ½”collector, 1.80 low gear set, 4:88 rear, 103 rollout tire, 7500 through the lights.
What do you think of the 1095 Demon on Alcohol. Do they work well out of the box, or is it worth the money to have it reworked by ProSystems or Rupert or ??? Would a Holley reworked by one of these guys perform better? What about a smaller plenum intake (ie RM Funnel Ram) to avoid puddling. Smaller 2 1/8” primaries”.
I like the vacuum to the regulator spring housing idea. Way to simple. We will do the reg mod for the weekend, and he has bigger mains coming as well. Just looking for some suggestions for down the road.
Thanks Tom
I dislike that intake for that combo. I've also never been a fan of a demon alky carb, your egts are to high I shot for 1100-1150 in the 1/4. I'd send it to APD or Rupert to conv over not Prosystems if it was gas then Prosystems.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:27 PM
  #37  
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Thank you for the reply. Which intake didn't you like for the small motor? The Super Victor (I suspect a little large), or the RM funnel ram? What would you suggest?

Tom
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:06 PM
  #38  
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454R out of box. good intake
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:16 PM
  #39  
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There is a reason why they are called the fastest caburator in the world

http://www.pro-system.com/friendlydom.html


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Old 09-04-2007, 05:40 PM
  #40  
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I don't have any experience at all with the Demon carbs so don't know what to tell you there other than Rupert has done all my alky carbs.

I agree with Hammer about the intake. I run the Super Vic and I think it's a great intake but might be just a tad big for a 460 with those heads. You might try a Victor Jr. with a carb adapter but that's probably close to the RM manifold you're looking at.

If you call Rupert he will tell you to forget about the EGT. He has told me examples of carbs he has put out that ran 1200+ in the 1/8 and he was fine with it. He thinks there are too many variables in the EGT systems and installations. He will tell you to jet it for best MPH and let the EGTs fall where they may. Still makes me nervous to see them up there though.

Are you running any kind of spacer under the carb? If so you may want to try it without the spacer.

What type of hood scoop are you using and are you running an air cleaner or a carb pan sealed to the scoop? If you're running an open front ram type scoop with no air cleaner or pan, the air flowing over the top of the carb can actually suck fuel out the top causing it to lean out and could cause the flutter you mentioned.

I run 10 AN line from the pump to the regulator and 8 AN to the carb.

Let us know how you make out.

George
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