THERATTLER

talking about the title ,,,about 15 years ago I sold a old piece of junk datsun truck to a guy for 300 dollars and gave him a signed title . ,,well he didn't go to the courthouse and change it to his name..about a month later the police in the next state called me and said I had been involved in a hit and run and that they had my truck where I had left it on the side of the road...They advised me to come turn myself in ...It took a lawyer and two trips to that state to clear myself and I still got stuck for the wrecker and storage for the truck ($500) that was unrepairable...luckely the lawyer is a friend that helped me out or I would have been in real trouble..($$$). :cry: .when I sell something now , I go to the courthouse with the buyer...sometimes you have to learn lessons the hard (expensive) way... :cry:

Scorpion1110

Gentlemen:

I have been following this hateful thread. As I am not particularly well right now, this thread has had a tendency to make me feel worse. However, my very brief drivebys to the forum, have allowed me to watch this thing grow like a large malignant tumor.

So I sucked it up and went back to the beginning on this:

March 2, 2009- Firebird89 posts that the motor advertised as 18 degrees is not- he also mentions he is titled owner on the 89 firebird that WW154 has.

WW154 rebutts FB89's comment and also says in his post " receipt offered but its a drag car".

WW154 posts the receipt pic, its folded and kw89425 notes it was folded and comments that its a lame cover-up.

3/3/09 WW154 admits it a 23 degree motor and stated he was told it was 18 degree engine [Guys what do you always say about someone who represents an engine as "I was told it was ... You guys junp all over him]

FBird89 posts all his add numbers and the motor is not advertised as an 18 degree motor. WW154 cannot claim that FBird89 told him this as he needed to have the add to buy the car.[WW154-Who told you it was an 18 degree motor?]

Scooter on this same day you told WW 154-"You are starting to sink dude". [Guys please keep in mind where you started and where you are now]

Note-Nothing from WW154 for several days when he was instantly responding on 03/03- Why is that do you think?

Chris on March 6, you noted that Wayne had "daresay walked out".

On March 6th Bjuice was also sure that WW154 owed FBird89 $1k and says it.

Something turned everyone's opinion- What was it. I think I know and its pretty interesting but also normal. Keep reading.

Sandy W then points out that FBird89 has a post on Jim Edwards who he bought the car from- FBird rebutts.

Lest you guys think thats an issue-then look up Rosameelpito who posted repeatedly on Mark Huelskamp and now is posting on Sloan's transmissons and is putting up adds-same way both time. Multiple problems with sellers or buyers does not convict a person.

On March 20, KW89425 notes that he cant find WW154s profile- He has been silent for 17 days. At this point the Forum sides with Fbird89.

On May 11, LTrailers comments that he bought a motor from WW154 that had more likely 336 runs then the 36 he (WW154) claimed.

WW154 has been quiet for 2 months.

WW154 shows up on June 10th posting in caps. THE PAGE COUNT WAS 5 ON JUNE 10. Its now 13. It grew by 4 pages in two months and more than 9 in 2 and 1/2 weeks. Does anyone think this is interesting?

WW154 posts his emails on 06/11/09-There is a 08/09/08 comment from Fbird89 to WW noting that he is owed $1k and that he has a WITNESS to the verbal agreement.

WW154 PMs Scooter same day. Scooter confirms this. Note that WW154 who has been away for months is now responding regularly and PM'ing users- pretty smart huh? If you are trying to turn opinion, keep stating your case- while the other side is away.

Scooter is looking for Fbird on June 13th.

However no one asked WW154 where hes been for TWO MONTHS- guys shouldnt we have been curious?

On June 16th Scooter got another pm from WW154 and says he is starting to side with WW154.

Have we forgotten what we have seen to this point? Why has the tide turned?

Did it turn originally because WW154 went silent? and now its turning back because Fbird is silent?

On the 16th Fbird shows up again.

Fbird also points out on 06/16 that WW154 is advertising the car Bill of Sale only no title- technically the title is in dispute- Is this misleading to not disclose to a new buyer? Guys think about this.

Now the issue of a Lein comes up- In MD when a title has a lein its shown on the title. The leinholder has original; owner has duplicate. When the lein is released you receive the original from the leinholder with a signed lein release. You typically hold the lein release and duplicate title and transfer them to new owner at sale. It is not necessary to go to the DMV to get a new title. If Fbird's state is similar then is this a real issue or just a perceived one?

Now around this time Fbird loses his cool- That certainly doesnt make him look good. The IRS also comes into the conversation at this point- The ramifications could affect both buyer and seller-but I question whether an Agent would take the call or launch an investigation- I work with the service regularly and I just doubt that this is an issue worthy of even showing up on the thread.

At this point the thread goes back and forth and the Forum users try and broker a deal- one which cracks pretty quickly. So what actually happened?

Well if I wanted to guess I would say there was an interesting social experiment that occurred- WW154 was on the ropes and then he disappeared. He let things settle- Then he returned after 2 months, on the offensive- and it just so happens that FBird was away and silent- WW154 regained the momentum and put Fbird on the ropes just as he had been- very interesting.

Its a not uncommon phenomena that Janes Thurber described under the term "Poisoning the Well"

So who is right?

Fbird you claim that you had a witness to the deal- get a signed notarized statement that would be evidential in a court of law-post the pic. Pretty simple I think.

My gut has told me from the beginning that Fbird was legit- and I still think he is- just a gut feeling an a thorough read of this thread and the actions of the two parties- an Organizational Behavior and HRM MBA must be worth something and forgive the self promotion Just wanted to show I am not a crackpot poser

FBird, if I was you, I would post the signed notarized statement and then take the title and turn it into the DMV as you sold the car as a race car and that the title should now be considered salvage. You prove your point, you forgive the $1k, you nuke your adversary and if anyone gets your info off of Carfax and comes to you as last titled owner you get to tell your story.

And BTW, Broadway Title can't legally issue a title to replace a salvage title, so if WW154 went that route and you found out- thats fraud and the DMV will listen unlike the IRS.

Thats all folks.

For those asking how I am doing, worse than I'd like but better than my adversaries would like.

Surgery in a few weeks, and if I dont come out of it less than whole I'll be back with you guys keeping the peace.

Just think about this thread, and to quote Mopar 1968,

JMO

Scorp

waynesworld154

hello mr, scorpion wish you were in better health and hope you get well soon. I have read other posts on this site as well as your diary and have nothing but respect from what I have read so far, so please do not take anything said here against you or anyone else.

The reason I was absent for months was because I was doing some investigation of my own to ensure I was on solid legal ground. As you mentioned this is a very interesting social dynamic and the tide has turned a few times in the past 2 months. What you read is subjective and everyone forms their own opinion from the information available.

Now to answer some of your questions. The motor was advertised incorrectly and if you go back and read I did write on here that I was mistaken and it was my fault, I spoke up, I did not remain silent.

When I purchased the car Firebird asked if I wanted a receipt, I said no its a drag car, but he insisted and wrote out 2 receipts identical except I did not sign my copy. When you asked to post receipts I folded mine because I did not believe at the time it was anyones business how much I paid for the car, but when everyone was skeptical about it being folded I posted the full receipt. Again, what you see in each receipt is subjective, everyone sees what they want to, someone asked me if that was my signature or if it was forged. I told them it is my signature...again did not hide, but when his receipt was signed it was identical to the one I posted. so let me ask anyone who reads this, first would you let your race car leave your house if the buyer was thousand dollars short? lets say you said yes when you make out the reciepts would you make absolutly sure that both reciepts showed money owed? and one more thing, why would you change hand writing in the middle of reciept from print to cursive. just observations. if you go back to page 5 and read my messages 08-08-08 firebird wrote and this is 2 days after i bought the car the way i see it you owe me a thousand dollars he should have told me to turn around and go home since i couldnt wait to see if he was buying the other car. there is absolutley no metion of the title or the money he says I owe. Why? because that is not how it happened. I paid in full at the time of purchase. Look at the receipts.

Yes, I have sent personal pms to more than just scooter. Asking them if they were in the position of someone selling a title would you pay money?? Some said they would because of resale value and some said they wouldnt give him a dime. I have also sent pms about posts they sent that i thought were funny. Never did I post a harsh word about anyone on this sight even though some posts were pretty harsh against me.

I go silent again. I have already posted my information and presented my case, I did not see any reason to get into a pissing match with firebird over a computer screen. If you look in recent history even though the tide had turned and some were posting against firebird for his harsh words I did not join in, I did pm others about their posts, how they were funny, but not in public forum...whats the point.

Firbirds witness to the verbal agreement. Firebird states he has a witness. This witness is a cop and can verify his statements. This witness was in the car with him while he and I were on the phone, I too had someone in tha car with me, she is not a cop, but does that make her any less credible?? Subjective.

I have been here following this thread from the very beginning. I have not gone anywhere and I am not hiding. Every person I have sold anything to since this happened has been aware of this deal, not because they have read the forum, but because I have told them about it, I am not hiding I am putting it out there and I write recipts on carbon paper for every deal. Buyer gets the original, seller gets the copy.

As for the advertising of the car with no title, when and if someone calls I disclose the information to them on the phone.

As I said, subjective, some made their minds up from the beginning, some saw his story come un-done, just didnt hold water.

Now for a social question?? If I were the one who posted a scam thread warning you of the seller??? Would I be the one who was believed??

So, everyone will believe what they got out of the story. As Abe Lincoln said " it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool that to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Thanks to all for your time. You will make your own minds up

Scorp, if you beleive anything please believe that my wishes for you to be healthy are sincere.

Wayne

Harbone

scorp,
good to see you on here and I hope you are feeling better.

ajk

To have a warning about a 18 degree motor being advertised when it was not as advertised turn into this is ridiculus.FB89 and his family have raced at our local track for years and are honest upstanding people.I totally understand why he is pissed. I do not know the exact happenings of this deal only FB89 & WW do YES only they do. Was the extra grand part of the deal?Only those 2 know, seems alot of crap was posted for a simple warning. Stick to your guns FB89 seems like alot of undeserved BS has been fired your way!!!!

mopar1968

Hmmmm 1 post, no profile, one must wonder :!: :!: :!: Personally i think this pi$$ing match has gone long enough :!: :!: 195 post and still nothing resolved :!: :!:


''JUST MY TWO CENT'S WORTH''

THERATTLER

X 2 MOPAR

ajk

Hmmmm no need to wonder.?Does not take long for you to come to false conclusions. Just joined a couple weeks ago.After reading the whole thing i see WW was deamed a nice guy over the phone.I am just saying FB89 runs at the same track i do and is a honest guy.

Sox

Jumping Jesus on a Pony can we put this to rest..

mopar1968

Thank you ''Sox'' :!: :!:


''JUST MY TWO CENT'S WORTH''