Need Help on engine build
#12
Member
CRAFTSMAN
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59
main caps
Hey thanks, I will copy this thread and take it to my machinist, When I talked to him earlier this week he suggested that clearancing may be a problem on a one piece crank seal motor as the material is thin and may cut into the water jackets. On top of that the H Beam Rods make it worse.
If that occurs is the block junk or is there a repair for it? I was only able to find SBC Girdles on Ebay and it is a Cat. Ford girdles are available at most of the suppliers.
If that occurs is the block junk or is there a repair for it? I was only able to find SBC Girdles on Ebay and it is a Cat. Ford girdles are available at most of the suppliers.
#13
Senior Member
RACING JUNKIE
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,044
Heres a link to cat power engine products. They make the bbc main stud guirdle I was refering to in a earlier post if anybodies interested.
http://www.catpep.com/default1.htm
http://www.catpep.com/default1.htm
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: VA Hospital, Dallas, Tx (214 302 1924) cell-972-464-7400
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Clearancing the block should not be a major isse but it will be some work to do by hand. Those blocks have been clearanced for a larger stroker so if he is careful and cuts in the right places and does not cut/grind more than needed for clearances it all should be fine.
Instead of water jackets he might want to be concerned about getting into the oil galleries that run at the bottom of the block from front to rear in that block.
All it takes is to be careful and measure and check it and keep checking it a little at a time.
I have done several 396 cu in using the LT-1 Blocks. I have no idea what he means about the one piece seal making the block thinner. Also you can easily make it a block with a two piece seal with an aluminum adapter.
Ed
Instead of water jackets he might want to be concerned about getting into the oil galleries that run at the bottom of the block from front to rear in that block.
All it takes is to be careful and measure and check it and keep checking it a little at a time.
I have done several 396 cu in using the LT-1 Blocks. I have no idea what he means about the one piece seal making the block thinner. Also you can easily make it a block with a two piece seal with an aluminum adapter.
Ed
#16
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Location: VA Hospital, Dallas, Tx (214 302 1924) cell-972-464-7400
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Thanks Ed, That is a relief, do the H-Beam rods require more clearancing than I-Beams
I don't think anything requires as much block clearancing as the GM Powdered Metal Rods, but the H-Beams do have the bolt heads hanging down further and will need more than a regular I-Beam Rod will. The Eagle H-Beam uses a short head stroker bolt which does make it easier. The Cat and Scat and I guess the rest use a longer bolt head. This was true lasty year. This year I have no clue.
Ed
#17
Member
CRAFTSMAN
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59
clearancing
Actually I am planning on clearancing the engine myself, I saw one article that showed the edge of rod next to the rod bolt machined og ground off. I
also read that there needs to .050 clearance from rotating assemble from block.
I got the main hoop and two of the supports in this weekend steady but slow.
also read that there needs to .050 clearance from rotating assemble from block.
I got the main hoop and two of the supports in this weekend steady but slow.
#18
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Location: VA Hospital, Dallas, Tx (214 302 1924) cell-972-464-7400
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With steel rods .040 to block is fine. With aluminum rods .060 to block. same with cam too.
You can carefully tape up the piston top take up slack and also keep it from scuffing the cylinders, With a rod using cap screws (Bolts no nuts) You can hold block to the side or where piston will not fall back out, and instal a upper rod bearing in the rod, install carefully not nicking the crank and next we will get a little wild and crazy.
Install the cap screws by hand but tighten them deeper into the rod than the cap would allow. Be sure cam is not in block at this stage. With the bolts in the rod too far hold the piston pushing it toward the crank as you rotate the engine.
Watch each bolt head one cylinder at a time to see exactly where the bolt head clearance needs to be. mark that on the block pan rails with a marker across the pan rail. This helps prevent you from grinding or cutting the block in the places you do not need any extra clearances. By doing this in this way you will see exactly where the closest places will be. after you have a spot marked on the pan rails to line up with bolt heads, Nothing wrong with marking this spot with a scribe if preferred.
Remove bolts and install other rod bearing half in the rod cap and install the rod cap. Rotate engine slowly and watch to see if it clears, and by how much or if it does not clear and by how much. write on the pan rail or a hand drawn replica of the pan rails the appx amount you think it will need to be cut to get the .040 + clearances in all places.
Remove piston and rod and tape up or completely remove crank. To me it is easier to tape up.
.Clean oil off of crank rod journals and wrap with a tape to completely cover the rod journals for a pretection against the flying hot debris from the cutter or grinder.
Cut carefully but cut in only the places where you marked to be cut.
This will be a trial and error process and is a pain in the butt but it is necessary. For me I have found that a grinding round or triangle stone in a die grinder or high speed rotary grinder works better than using a carbide cutter. Maybe you will prefer the carbide. Hold the cutter or cutting stone straight and verticle as you cut.
After the pan rails seem to be cut enough for clearances, use a straight edge on your marks like a tri-square and eyeball on the bottom of the cylinder walls where notching them also will be in the same plane of travel of the rods and rod bolts. That will alce need to be ground or cut for clearances.
Is anyone starting to get an idea why we charge a few hundred to do stroker clearancing?
This process is a little quicker and easier if you own fixtures for each stroke size made by BHJ but they are costly.
The bigger the stroke is, the more material will need to be cut out of the block in three places for each cylinder.
4 inch stroke with a 350 or 400 is about the maximum. I prefer the 3.875 as the maximum.
If you are careful and sneak up on the needed cuting amount and cut in the correct places you will not hit wateer or oil. If you do cut through into water, cut farther and get it welded and do a bottom block fill with Hard Blok and you should have no problem once you again grind the weld so you have clearances you need.
Whew'
Ed
You can carefully tape up the piston top take up slack and also keep it from scuffing the cylinders, With a rod using cap screws (Bolts no nuts) You can hold block to the side or where piston will not fall back out, and instal a upper rod bearing in the rod, install carefully not nicking the crank and next we will get a little wild and crazy.
Install the cap screws by hand but tighten them deeper into the rod than the cap would allow. Be sure cam is not in block at this stage. With the bolts in the rod too far hold the piston pushing it toward the crank as you rotate the engine.
Watch each bolt head one cylinder at a time to see exactly where the bolt head clearance needs to be. mark that on the block pan rails with a marker across the pan rail. This helps prevent you from grinding or cutting the block in the places you do not need any extra clearances. By doing this in this way you will see exactly where the closest places will be. after you have a spot marked on the pan rails to line up with bolt heads, Nothing wrong with marking this spot with a scribe if preferred.
Remove bolts and install other rod bearing half in the rod cap and install the rod cap. Rotate engine slowly and watch to see if it clears, and by how much or if it does not clear and by how much. write on the pan rail or a hand drawn replica of the pan rails the appx amount you think it will need to be cut to get the .040 + clearances in all places.
Remove piston and rod and tape up or completely remove crank. To me it is easier to tape up.
.Clean oil off of crank rod journals and wrap with a tape to completely cover the rod journals for a pretection against the flying hot debris from the cutter or grinder.
Cut carefully but cut in only the places where you marked to be cut.
This will be a trial and error process and is a pain in the butt but it is necessary. For me I have found that a grinding round or triangle stone in a die grinder or high speed rotary grinder works better than using a carbide cutter. Maybe you will prefer the carbide. Hold the cutter or cutting stone straight and verticle as you cut.
After the pan rails seem to be cut enough for clearances, use a straight edge on your marks like a tri-square and eyeball on the bottom of the cylinder walls where notching them also will be in the same plane of travel of the rods and rod bolts. That will alce need to be ground or cut for clearances.
Is anyone starting to get an idea why we charge a few hundred to do stroker clearancing?
This process is a little quicker and easier if you own fixtures for each stroke size made by BHJ but they are costly.
The bigger the stroke is, the more material will need to be cut out of the block in three places for each cylinder.
4 inch stroke with a 350 or 400 is about the maximum. I prefer the 3.875 as the maximum.
If you are careful and sneak up on the needed cuting amount and cut in the correct places you will not hit wateer or oil. If you do cut through into water, cut farther and get it welded and do a bottom block fill with Hard Blok and you should have no problem once you again grind the weld so you have clearances you need.
Whew'
Ed
#20
Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: VA Hospital, Dallas, Tx (214 302 1924) cell-972-464-7400
Posts: 540
If I can help you in times of problems with it let me know. I have a few customers down that direction.
For doing your own engine in Houston I suggest to call The WopShop and talk with Bruce. He or any of the other shops can do you a professional clearancing job if that is what you need. I have no issues with recommending him, and to speak of him and Earl with much trust
By the way when you do brind on the bottom of the cylinders for clearance be sure to knock the sharp edge off and then lightly run a hone through. If you can't get a hone done, at least rub the bottom of the cylinder real good with a rough Red ScotchBrite to get rid of all sharp edges after any bottom cylinder bottom clearancing.
Ed
For doing your own engine in Houston I suggest to call The WopShop and talk with Bruce. He or any of the other shops can do you a professional clearancing job if that is what you need. I have no issues with recommending him, and to speak of him and Earl with much trust
By the way when you do brind on the bottom of the cylinders for clearance be sure to knock the sharp edge off and then lightly run a hone through. If you can't get a hone done, at least rub the bottom of the cylinder real good with a rough Red ScotchBrite to get rid of all sharp edges after any bottom cylinder bottom clearancing.
Ed