Pre-Lube/Oil Accumulators
11-14-2007, 05:37 PM
#1
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Pre-Lube/Oil Accumulators
I recently purchased a pre-lube oil system much like Moroso's oil accumulator. One of the biggest differences is the one I have has an electronic servo valve instead of a manual valve found on Moroso's accumulator.
I got the system to prevent dry start-up wear, after doing a great deal of reading on the issue. But soon after buying it, I realized that I can use it as an accumulator during racing (circle track) by leaving the valve open. The theory is that at times of severe Gs, if I momentarily lost oil pressure, the accumulator cylinder would supply the oil (or take up the slack of possible oil sump starvation).
Wondering if my theory is sound, if any of you have experience with a pre-lube/accumulator oil system, I'd love to hear any input. My cylinder has a 1 1/2 qt capacity and was designed to open the valve prior to start-up to release the 60lbs or so of stored oil and pressure to lube the engine at start-up. Suppose to shut the valve after sufficient pressure refills the accumulator.
I got the system to prevent dry start-up wear, after doing a great deal of reading on the issue. But soon after buying it, I realized that I can use it as an accumulator during racing (circle track) by leaving the valve open. The theory is that at times of severe Gs, if I momentarily lost oil pressure, the accumulator cylinder would supply the oil (or take up the slack of possible oil sump starvation).
Wondering if my theory is sound, if any of you have experience with a pre-lube/accumulator oil system, I'd love to hear any input. My cylinder has a 1 1/2 qt capacity and was designed to open the valve prior to start-up to release the 60lbs or so of stored oil and pressure to lube the engine at start-up. Suppose to shut the valve after sufficient pressure refills the accumulator.
11-15-2007, 05:20 AM
#2
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That is exactly how it will work. I have one on my car (drags) so if oil gets away from the pickup when I stop it keeps pressure up. I also use it as a preluber. Me and the two other guys I race with all use them and they work great. No more knicked up bearings on short shutdown tracks.
Curtis
Curtis
11-15-2007, 05:43 AM
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Don't use them on circle track cars other than for pre lube.If your pan runs dry and the accumulator starts pumping oil into the engine your oil pressure warning light wont come on.your oil pump pumps air as good as it pumps oil and what your bearings are seeing is a mixture of air and oil. this will cause bearing failure and you wont see it coming because the warning light never came on. We have seen this happen over 100 times when racers have there oil light flash on in the corners.instead of fixing the supply problem they believe the B.S. that moroso advertises and bolt on an accumulator.result no more oil light in the corner and rod out the side.Bill
11-15-2007, 07:00 AM
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Bill,
Why can't the oil light be set to something like 35lbs? You would still have oil from the accumulator and be able to get shut off. Oil and air for a short time is still better than air only for that same amount of time. I'm not doubting what you have seen just something to ponder.
Curtis
Why can't the oil light be set to something like 35lbs? You would still have oil from the accumulator and be able to get shut off. Oil and air for a short time is still better than air only for that same amount of time. I'm not doubting what you have seen just something to ponder.
Curtis
11-15-2007, 10:38 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by billhendren
Don't use them on circle track cars other than for pre lube.If your pan runs dry and the accumulator starts pumping oil into the engine your oil pressure warning light wont come on.your oil pump pumps air as good as it pumps oil and what your bearings are seeing is a mixture of air and oil. this will cause bearing failure and you wont see it coming because the warning light never came on. We have seen this happen over 100 times when racers have there oil light flash on in the corners.instead of fixing the supply problem they believe the B.S. that moroso advertises and bolt on an accumulator.result no more oil light in the corner and rod out the side.Bill
George
11-15-2007, 11:11 AM
#6
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Never thought about the accumulator appeasing the warning light, something to think on.
Suppose the best way is to make sure that supply problems are addressed and working fine, then use the accumulator for backup.
Happy just to have the thing taking care of dry startup, anything else is a plus I guess.
Suppose the best way is to make sure that supply problems are addressed and working fine, then use the accumulator for backup.
Happy just to have the thing taking care of dry startup, anything else is a plus I guess.
11-15-2007, 11:47 AM
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I like them for drag and for street.
I am not fond of any of the Moroso stolen idea products though. Rick Moroso and I had a big round and round about that a few months ago.
Still, I guess using thier's is better than not using any. Canton is the company that came out with the Accusump Oil Accumalator for performance use, and that is what I prefer.
They both work the same way on the same priinciple though. I have only had one customer have a failure issue with one of them. That is becuase they had it on their car, but had the thing not in use, so it did them no good, when they lost oil pressure with a busted oil pan. Might not have done them any good anyway though, because that pan was busted into the oil pump.
There is an initial oil charging process to be done at the first install. If you buy the remote electric solenoid valve life is much easier.
Turn ignition switch on wait a few seconds before cranking, enjoy seeing your oil pressure guage move with oil pressure before even rotating the engine. Even better is if you are also pre-heating the oil ith an oil heater before starting it.
When the engine starts, the Accumalator is re-filled with fresh oil and pressure of what is in the engine. Oil is not circulated through the accumulator. Oil with pressure remains inside unless your engine's oil pressure goes below the pressure where the release valve is calibrated to open. Then the valve opens and flods the lube system with either 1 1/2 qts or 3 qts of oil under pressure one time. When oil pump again pumps oil, the Accumulator gets re-filled. If oil pump pumps no more oil, that is it. If Accumulator is filled again, when you shut off ignition you have fresh oil supply under pressure once again stored for pre-start pre-lube.
I believe that only the Canton has the different pressure calibrated release valves. Not sure.
Ed
I am not fond of any of the Moroso stolen idea products though. Rick Moroso and I had a big round and round about that a few months ago.
Still, I guess using thier's is better than not using any. Canton is the company that came out with the Accusump Oil Accumalator for performance use, and that is what I prefer.
They both work the same way on the same priinciple though. I have only had one customer have a failure issue with one of them. That is becuase they had it on their car, but had the thing not in use, so it did them no good, when they lost oil pressure with a busted oil pan. Might not have done them any good anyway though, because that pan was busted into the oil pump.
There is an initial oil charging process to be done at the first install. If you buy the remote electric solenoid valve life is much easier.
Turn ignition switch on wait a few seconds before cranking, enjoy seeing your oil pressure guage move with oil pressure before even rotating the engine. Even better is if you are also pre-heating the oil ith an oil heater before starting it.
When the engine starts, the Accumalator is re-filled with fresh oil and pressure of what is in the engine. Oil is not circulated through the accumulator. Oil with pressure remains inside unless your engine's oil pressure goes below the pressure where the release valve is calibrated to open. Then the valve opens and flods the lube system with either 1 1/2 qts or 3 qts of oil under pressure one time. When oil pump again pumps oil, the Accumulator gets re-filled. If oil pump pumps no more oil, that is it. If Accumulator is filled again, when you shut off ignition you have fresh oil supply under pressure once again stored for pre-start pre-lube.
I believe that only the Canton has the different pressure calibrated release valves. Not sure.
Ed
11-15-2007, 02:14 PM
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George
It would be nice to have that pressure differential but in the real world as soon as the pump picks up air the pressure drops in the accusump and in a few seconds is equal to whatever the pump is putting out. In a drag car this isn't to much of a problem because most oil pressure problems are when letting off.
In a circle track application oil pressure problems occur just as the driver pitches the car into the turn and plants his foot in the throttle,the accusump and pump soon equalize in pressure and during the time in the corner and coming off the corner the engine is fed oil and air. as the car hits the straight away the pump picks up oil and starts refiling the accusump as well as raising the oil pressure back up. Bill
It would be nice to have that pressure differential but in the real world as soon as the pump picks up air the pressure drops in the accusump and in a few seconds is equal to whatever the pump is putting out. In a drag car this isn't to much of a problem because most oil pressure problems are when letting off.
In a circle track application oil pressure problems occur just as the driver pitches the car into the turn and plants his foot in the throttle,the accusump and pump soon equalize in pressure and during the time in the corner and coming off the corner the engine is fed oil and air. as the car hits the straight away the pump picks up oil and starts refiling the accusump as well as raising the oil pressure back up. Bill
11-15-2007, 03:59 PM
#9
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I didn't get the Moroso, feel good about that. The one I got is sold as a pre-lube system, not accumulator. http://www.autoenginelube.com/ , This guy agreed to sponsor me for a significantly reduced purchase price.
And as far as circle track, the point where we usually are starved for oil is just as you get off the throttle, slam the brakes and dive into the corner. The 7,000 rpm at the end of the straight away has all the oil on the topside and the G forces take away what was left for a very short period. Good oil pressure coming out of the corner, doesn't take long for the pan to recover the oil it needs coming out of the corner. So it's kinda like what you were explaining about the dragsters and the short track.
Do you know how I can get ahold of an adjustable release valve? I think that would be a great addition to my system. Even if you can guide me to a web site that would carry that system you have, maybe I can just order the valve.
I'm just now starting to put one of my engines together, so it'll be a bit before I can try it out. And by the way, building two 400s and I have a question about the steam holes for anyone that knows about them. I'll post that in a new thread.
Thanks, love hearing from all you seasoned car guys.
And as far as circle track, the point where we usually are starved for oil is just as you get off the throttle, slam the brakes and dive into the corner. The 7,000 rpm at the end of the straight away has all the oil on the topside and the G forces take away what was left for a very short period. Good oil pressure coming out of the corner, doesn't take long for the pan to recover the oil it needs coming out of the corner. So it's kinda like what you were explaining about the dragsters and the short track.
Do you know how I can get ahold of an adjustable release valve? I think that would be a great addition to my system. Even if you can guide me to a web site that would carry that system you have, maybe I can just order the valve.
I'm just now starting to put one of my engines together, so it'll be a bit before I can try it out. And by the way, building two 400s and I have a question about the steam holes for anyone that knows about them. I'll post that in a new thread.
Thanks, love hearing from all you seasoned car guys.
11-15-2007, 04:21 PM
#10
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Dave,
What I am using is very similar to the one you posted. Doesn't your system have an electric valve on the bottom? That is all that this one uses.
http://www.masterlube.net/
Bill,
thanks for the explanation. Just showed my ignorance of that type of racing and I appreciate your insight and experience, even though you were answering George.
Curtis
What I am using is very similar to the one you posted. Doesn't your system have an electric valve on the bottom? That is all that this one uses.
http://www.masterlube.net/
Bill,
thanks for the explanation. Just showed my ignorance of that type of racing and I appreciate your insight and experience, even though you were answering George.
Curtis
