mrmopar622

If you look at the above post - BBC parts and either invoice you can clearly see I bought everything from Naylor to complete the BBC engine. Jimmy's statement about the terminators, vacuum pump, fuel pump being Mopar parts that would not fit on the BBC might have been humorous to you all but can you imagine the horror I felt when he made those comments after I had paid him over $12,000.00?!?

You can look at the first invoice & final invoice and see it took 14 weeks instead of 5-6 weeks. After waiting that long it still was not right. As you can see, I have proof of everything I have said. Thanks

P.S. If you look at the above Naylor invoice, with the addition of the Chevy parts, the total comes to $12,439.00. The dyno was to have been included in this, by Naylor not doing this it ended up costing an additional $500.00 for dyno work plus another $350.00 for corrections made due to Naylor's poor workmanship. That brings the total to $13,389.00, hmm, not so good a deal after all is it?
This should make it apparent to everyone that Naylor does not stand behind his work.

hammertime

So this engine was not dyno'd at Naylors shop ?

mrmopar622

As you can see on his ad #1418969 he is guaranteeing these engines & I am sure he will tell anyone like he told me, he will have the engine on the dyno when I come to pick it up. After 12 weeks when I went up there(to see what the hold up was & what was going on - I had only got the run around so far) & Tom had me talk to Naylor's 2 mechanics at 11:30 am when they got there, as usual Jimmy was not there, I asked them if they had a dyno and they said they had one but the brake was messed up on it and they had not dynoed any engines since they had been there. This was on a Friday and I told Tom to have Jimmy call me first thing Monday morning. After he had not called by 1:00 pm I called him and finally got to speak with Jimmy and told him what his mechanics told me about the dyno. He said his mechanics did not know what they were talking about & why was I worried about the dyno anyway, he wasn't dynoing my engine. I told him that was in the agreement and he said it was not anywhere on the invoice & he was not dynoing it. I reminded him that his invoice said 1100+hp & he said the final invoice, when I paid him the rest of the money, would have it on it too.

But to answer your question, NO it was not dynoed at Naylor's, it was dynoed at Frisco City, AL., by one of the best in the Southeast with the newest & latest dyno. It printed out 6 different sheets per pull & at best dyno it only made 947 hp. You can look at the graph and see how the line leveled out & that is how you can tell you got the tune up right and are getting all the available hp out of the engine. Like everything else I have said, this is backed up by documentation.(unlike Naylor, who only has lies & excuses)

I want to make it clear to everyone, I may not be rich but I have the money to put into my race car and like 99.99% of the rest of the racers on here, I have a credit card if it comes to a "must have part". I have a shop I special built for the race car with all the tools & equipment for the upkeep. I have a Dodge Ram 3500 Truck I pull the 40' gn trailer that I haul my race car & equipment in. So I hope this makes it clear, I am not to poor to buy things I need or want! If anyone wants, I will be happy to post pictures of these also.

What it boils down to is, I paid Naylor his asking price to build me a 1100+hp engine & I had to have repairs done to it before dynoed and it only made 947 hp & I feel Naylor should step up & stand behind his work. I tried to work with him but he would not work with me, he ignored me. He says he gave me a good deal, but if you buy an engine from him at his ad #1418969 and it does not make the 1000+hp, would you have gotten a good deal from him?? My upgraded engine has bigger heads & 32 more cu in than the engines in his ads & does not make 1000hp, so you know those engines will not make 1000hp.

mrmopar622

Hey Hammertime,
Can I ask you a question? I see where you use APD Race Engines, if you had them build you a 1100 hp engine and it did not make within 153 hp of it, what would APD and/or you do? Thanks

hammertime

I wouldn't care what it made on a dyno, nor should you, you should care what it runs like on a track... IMO dyno's are for breaking engines in and trying to see gains with changes while on them.

I can tell you for 100% sure, I've seen over 150 difference from one dyno to another. I can also tell you this, its easy to make a dyno read less or more power with a flip of a switch. Another thing to remember, when a different engine shop dyno's a different shops engine, this is usually when you see very low #'s.

I don't want you to take that or this the wrong way, maybe you should be concerned but this is why you have the shop who built the engine also dyno the engine. 99% of engine shops out there are not going to trust anyone other dyno # and I wouldn't either as they are to easy to fool.

There is a very slim chance that engine is only making 950hp. Id like to know what type of car, details (the rest of drive train info, weight, gear, tire, fuel) and what it has ran so far ?

mrmopar622

I will have to disagree with you on the dyno. The dyno is a very valuable tool to use with a new engine. It not only helps to break the engine in and make sure there is no mistakes, but it is also very useful to tune the engine to get maximum hp & torque out of it. This information is useful in helping you set your car up. The torque convertor is what can make or kill ET. If you can provide a torque convertor company with copies of your dyno sheets weight of car type of trans rear gear & tire size, just about all of the good companies can build you a good convertor. Your dyno sheets can also help you select the optimum rear gear ratio. Also, if you know the hp & weight of your car you can get a good idea of what the car is supposed ET, if it does not do that you know you are losing available hp somewhere. I know there are gonna be dishonest engine builders who will calibrate their dynos to show 100-150 hp more, but the torque of the engine is what calculates your hp that is why I included the graph. You can compare the torque to the hp and do the math on them and that will tell you if the hp is correct or not.

I guess back in the dinosaur days of dyno there may have been a big variable between one dyno to the other. But now days with the modern dynos if the operators keep them calibrated you find very little hp difference from one to the other & that very little difference will be from the load percentage they set the dyno up to put on the engine. The man that dynoed my engine used to work with Gene Fulton. He just bought a brand new state-of-the-art dyno this year. The people from Stuska Dynamometers had just come back & made sure the calibrations were correct after 100 dyno pulls when he started on mine it had 110 pulls & when he finished, it had 120 pulls. He does all his dyno pulls with an 18% load on the engine, this is more or less the standard that most all engine builders use. This is the percentage load Gene Fulton, Sonny Leonard, Shafiroff, Reher-Morrison all dyno their engines at. The recommended dyno load is 10-20%. That is why I chose the very best person with the very best dyno equipment to dyno the engine, I wanted exact numbers.

You asked about my car, it is a rear engine dragster. It should weigh around 1800 pounds with the BBC engine & myself included. It has an ATI MRT Treemaster Convertor, ATI Glide with 4:29 rear gears, Goodyear 34.5x17-16 rear tires. In the picture I will post for you it had a 572 cu in all aluminum Indy Mopar engine. The dyno sheet from Indy said 958 hp @7200 rpm with 1-4 barrel on gas. I put a Tunnelram with 2 Terminators on alcohol on it, that should have given the engine another 75-80 hp. It run 4.64-4.68 in the eighth mile.

mrmopar622

Now you can understand why I paid Naylor to build me a 1100+hp engine. My Mopar engine should have been 1000 hp engine with the Tunnelram on alcohol. Instead of having an engine making 100 more hp I have one making about 50 less hp.

At the least the heads are going to have to come back off and I am going to have to pay someone else to preform the work that Naylor should have done. Naylor put a Comp Cams CB 1719B/1291B with a 285 intake 296 exhaust duration .824 intake .785 exhaust camshaft in the engine. I have had several engine builders tell me that is the size camshaft they use in their 555-565 engine and my 632 cu in engine needs a bigger camshaft. The camshaft may not be a big deal if I have enough piston to valve clearance, if not that means the pistons must come out & be notched.

The best I can hope for if the pistons do not require notching is only having to spend another $2,000.00 to get the engine in a power range that I can live with and I think everyone knows what the additional cost will run into if the pistons have to come out.

shawnp

I have never taken a motor to the dyno because we don't race on a dyno. I have seen the guys come out and tell me what the dyno said they made and I know it was better than what my motor put out. The ET slip said I had the better motor on track. As for dyno variances, yes they are better than the old days but I have seen the big number swing. Each dyno is different and will put out different numbers.

If you are basing your deal off the dyno number alone, the only fair thing to do is for Naylor to agree to step up and run the dyno. If it is sub par as to the agreement, then he should correct it. If it meets or is near the expected number, you have some apologies to make. Pretty simple solution.

mrmopar622

That sounds fair to me, we can take the engine back to where I had it dynoed and Jimmy Naylor can add his input & see the results or he & I can both pick some neutral sites & let you the people determine who does the dyno pulls with Jimmy & I both there.

If the engine makes close to the 1100 hp I will be more than happy to apologize to Jimmy & come on here & apologize to everyone else & pay not only for the dyno session but pay Jimmy for his time to come to it. If not Jimmy pays for the dyno session & he pays to have the engine corrected to make the 1100 hp that I paid for in the beginning.

hammertime

But I think the downside for Naylor no matter what now ... you posted the copy of the bill online after he gave you a good deal, now all his customers want the same deal. What would you do in his shoes ??

Put in the car as is .. race it and see what it goes.