A blue collar business owner speaks.....
12-19-2008, 08:41 PM
#1
Senior Member
RACING JUNKIE
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Emmett, Idaho
Posts: 7,334
A blue collar business owner speaks.....
This is one of the greatest responses to the requests for bailout money I have seen thus far. As a supplier for the Big 3 this man received a letter from the President of GM North America requesting support for the bail out program. His response is classic, and has to make you proud of a local guy who tells it like it is.
Dear Employees & Suppliers,
Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.
Troy Clarke President General Motors North America
Response from:
Gregory Knox, Pres.
Knox Machinery Company
Franklin, Ohio
Gentlemen:
In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clark, President of General Motors North America.
Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"… Believe me folks, The dream is over!
This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities…this dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever.
Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.
Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states: "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not."
You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management…how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass…so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time…for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics…for putting out too many parts on a shift…and for being too productive
(We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?)
Do you folks really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: "over the last few years …we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors." What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? What a joke!
We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit.
I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". "Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day… and the following very important thing would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up…that is how a free market system works…it does work…if we would only let it work…"
But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us"…Save us my ass, Hell - we're nationalizing…and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening…But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams…yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it…
Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?... How can that be??? Let's see… Fuel efficient… Listening to customers… Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul…
Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously reduce costs. Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning… Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"… Efficient front and back offices… Non union environment…
Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts.
I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it. Radical concept, huh… Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults.
I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied…"we really might not do it in a year…or in four…" Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office.
Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks … That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000… People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits… That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year… We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe…
That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home… Let the market correct itself folks - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has…and doesn't live beyond its means…and gets back to basics…and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world…and probably turns back to God.
Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news". I hope you take it to heart.
Gregory J. Knox, President
Knox Machinery, Inc.
Franklin, Ohio 45005
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A deep recession and billions in taxpayer-funded bailouts weren't enough to stop Congress from congratulating itself once more by bumping up its own pay.
According to The Hill, legislators will get a $4,700 (2.8%) increase. The raise can only be stopped by congressional vote.
Rep. Harry Mitchell, a first-term Democrat from Arizona, sponsored legislation earlier this year that would have prevented the automatic pay adjustments from kicking in for members next year. But the bill, which attracted 34 cosponsors, failed to make it out of committee....
So... they're asking auto executives to limit their pay because they helped run their companies into the ground (although D.C. did its part with massive regulations and unquestioned loyalty to the unions), yet the ones who have run our entire country into the ground get to pad their wallets a little more.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless."~ Thomas Jefferson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.-Dr. A. Rogers
Dear Employees & Suppliers,
Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.
Troy Clarke President General Motors North America
Response from:
Gregory Knox, Pres.
Knox Machinery Company
Franklin, Ohio
Gentlemen:
In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clark, President of General Motors North America.
Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"… Believe me folks, The dream is over!
This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities…this dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever.
Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.
Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states: "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not."
You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management…how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass…so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time…for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics…for putting out too many parts on a shift…and for being too productive
(We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?)
Do you folks really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: "over the last few years …we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors." What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? What a joke!
We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit.
I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". "Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day… and the following very important thing would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up…that is how a free market system works…it does work…if we would only let it work…"
But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us"…Save us my ass, Hell - we're nationalizing…and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening…But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams…yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it…
Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?... How can that be??? Let's see… Fuel efficient… Listening to customers… Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul…
Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously reduce costs. Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning… Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"… Efficient front and back offices… Non union environment…
Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts.
I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it. Radical concept, huh… Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults.
I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied…"we really might not do it in a year…or in four…" Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office.
Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks … That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000… People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits… That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year… We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe…
That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home… Let the market correct itself folks - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has…and doesn't live beyond its means…and gets back to basics…and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world…and probably turns back to God.
Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news". I hope you take it to heart.
Gregory J. Knox, President
Knox Machinery, Inc.
Franklin, Ohio 45005
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A deep recession and billions in taxpayer-funded bailouts weren't enough to stop Congress from congratulating itself once more by bumping up its own pay.
According to The Hill, legislators will get a $4,700 (2.8%) increase. The raise can only be stopped by congressional vote.
Rep. Harry Mitchell, a first-term Democrat from Arizona, sponsored legislation earlier this year that would have prevented the automatic pay adjustments from kicking in for members next year. But the bill, which attracted 34 cosponsors, failed to make it out of committee....
So... they're asking auto executives to limit their pay because they helped run their companies into the ground (although D.C. did its part with massive regulations and unquestioned loyalty to the unions), yet the ones who have run our entire country into the ground get to pad their wallets a little more.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless."~ Thomas Jefferson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.-Dr. A. Rogers
12-19-2008, 09:20 PM
#2
Senior Member
RACING JUNKIE
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pelahatchie, MS
Posts: 1,005
I usually stay out of the political talk, but here goes...
I worked at one of the foreign automakers for 4 years. It ain't no great shakes. Down to 1 shift, 4 days a week there now for the ones who are left. whohoo! Creditors for the employees don't care that they are making less than 40 hrs a week. They want to be paid. Now, they are off for nearly 3 weeks, most of which is unpaid. Of course, there will be just enough holiday and bridge days to deny them unemployment. Of course, the foreign automakers are profitable. Non union workers means non union benefits. So which is better, the company being unprofitable, or the worker not having any money to make the bills. You may ask, how this affects me since I no longer work there? Well, my wife still works for them. So I am left holding the bag trying to make the payments. Now, when the big 3 goes under, we the taxpayer will be responsible for the retirees. Would you want to suddenly lose the benefits you had and have to live on much less? I wouldn't. But that's 'letting the market work.' The so called pension guarantee will not pay much in the way of what they were promised in their contract. It may be that it was way too good a deal , but, it was a deal. If the gov't came along and took money out of any of our savings, we would be squealing too. Let's be honest here. If the big 3 reorganizes, wages will be cut. How many of you are willing to take a huge cut in pay for the job you are doing now? Remember, it's for the good of the country. I am not now, nor have I ever, been a union member. BUT, I don't look at them as being greedy or arrogant. I look at them as trying to provide for them and theirs , just like I am trying to do.
Just stirring the pot...
I worked at one of the foreign automakers for 4 years. It ain't no great shakes. Down to 1 shift, 4 days a week there now for the ones who are left. whohoo! Creditors for the employees don't care that they are making less than 40 hrs a week. They want to be paid. Now, they are off for nearly 3 weeks, most of which is unpaid. Of course, there will be just enough holiday and bridge days to deny them unemployment. Of course, the foreign automakers are profitable. Non union workers means non union benefits. So which is better, the company being unprofitable, or the worker not having any money to make the bills. You may ask, how this affects me since I no longer work there? Well, my wife still works for them. So I am left holding the bag trying to make the payments. Now, when the big 3 goes under, we the taxpayer will be responsible for the retirees. Would you want to suddenly lose the benefits you had and have to live on much less? I wouldn't. But that's 'letting the market work.' The so called pension guarantee will not pay much in the way of what they were promised in their contract. It may be that it was way too good a deal , but, it was a deal. If the gov't came along and took money out of any of our savings, we would be squealing too. Let's be honest here. If the big 3 reorganizes, wages will be cut. How many of you are willing to take a huge cut in pay for the job you are doing now? Remember, it's for the good of the country. I am not now, nor have I ever, been a union member. BUT, I don't look at them as being greedy or arrogant. I look at them as trying to provide for them and theirs , just like I am trying to do.
Just stirring the pot...
12-20-2008, 11:18 AM
#3
Senior Member
RACING JUNKIE
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,137
I worked in a Union shop for 12 years....I have worked in a non union shop for the last 4. I am not against Unions...and I was a member when I worked there...but the belief that just because a company is non union they will screw the workers and treat them badly is false. Not all companies are that way. The company I work for now treats it's employees far better than the Union shop I worked in...Not bashing Unions as I know every company is different...just pointing out that not all companies treat you bad without one.
12-23-2008, 03:17 PM
#4
Senior Member
RACING JUNKIE
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Emmett, Idaho
Posts: 7,334
This is from my friend who was the original poster of the above entry.
I googled Greg Knox of Knox machinery and thanked him for taking his time to respond to the OEM. He took the time to write me back...This is how change is made, through networking. Now I have a better perspective of where he comes from...
Mike,
I am truly humbled by all of your praise and support.
The response to that letter is overwhelming me...
I came into my office about a 3 weeks ago @ 6:00am and was greeted by Detroit’s pathetic plea…and my fingers just started typing like they were possessed…and 2 hours later I hit my reply button…
I literally just copied my Mom and a small handful of friends - for kicks...
I think the letter benefits from the fact that it was written @ 6:00am (before I had a chance to get any coffee into me, which generally has a stabilizing effect!)
I have always hated waking early, and probably always will, but it’s never stopped me from getting up @ 5:00am to start my day.
I’m part of what Obama calls the “privileged class” – I guess that means I have the privilege of working countless 80 hours weeks for the past 20 years so I can keep my wife @ home to raise our children…but I should feel guilty and feel compelled to share this money that just keeps finding me with those who are “more needy”…I am more needy, darn it – I have 6 kids I won’t be able to fully fund for college, but if I could have them stop robbing me in the form of the excessive taxes I pay (because of all that money – that just keeps finding me”) I could easily afford it…
Joe Biden says it’s “Patriotic” to pay taxes…what a “Patriot”…I wonder if he forks over close to six figures a year in taxes…or has ever paid $75,000 in a year to give all of the employees in his company 100% full family health care coverage…oh no, that’s right, he like the Obamanation is part of the truly privileged elite class who have those RIDICULOUS bloated pensions and free health care for life…which they don’t really need because from what I can see most politicians seem to have nice deals cut on the side for themselves…
Makes my blood boil…
Keep spreading the word and fighting the good fight – I know there are more sane ones like us out there than the media lets on…
God, family and country - let's all stop overcomplicating things.
Thank you for passing it on
Merry Christmas
Gregory J Knox
President
Knox Machinery, Inc.
www.knoxmachinery.com
See our inventory online!
Live Pure, Speak Truth, Right Wrong, and Stay Strong.
Thank you all for all of your support
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you and all yours
[/b]
I googled Greg Knox of Knox machinery and thanked him for taking his time to respond to the OEM. He took the time to write me back...This is how change is made, through networking. Now I have a better perspective of where he comes from...
Mike,
I am truly humbled by all of your praise and support.
The response to that letter is overwhelming me...
I came into my office about a 3 weeks ago @ 6:00am and was greeted by Detroit’s pathetic plea…and my fingers just started typing like they were possessed…and 2 hours later I hit my reply button…
I literally just copied my Mom and a small handful of friends - for kicks...
I think the letter benefits from the fact that it was written @ 6:00am (before I had a chance to get any coffee into me, which generally has a stabilizing effect!)
I have always hated waking early, and probably always will, but it’s never stopped me from getting up @ 5:00am to start my day.
I’m part of what Obama calls the “privileged class” – I guess that means I have the privilege of working countless 80 hours weeks for the past 20 years so I can keep my wife @ home to raise our children…but I should feel guilty and feel compelled to share this money that just keeps finding me with those who are “more needy”…I am more needy, darn it – I have 6 kids I won’t be able to fully fund for college, but if I could have them stop robbing me in the form of the excessive taxes I pay (because of all that money – that just keeps finding me”) I could easily afford it…
Joe Biden says it’s “Patriotic” to pay taxes…what a “Patriot”…I wonder if he forks over close to six figures a year in taxes…or has ever paid $75,000 in a year to give all of the employees in his company 100% full family health care coverage…oh no, that’s right, he like the Obamanation is part of the truly privileged elite class who have those RIDICULOUS bloated pensions and free health care for life…which they don’t really need because from what I can see most politicians seem to have nice deals cut on the side for themselves…
Makes my blood boil…
Keep spreading the word and fighting the good fight – I know there are more sane ones like us out there than the media lets on…
God, family and country - let's all stop overcomplicating things.
Thank you for passing it on
Merry Christmas
Gregory J Knox
President
Knox Machinery, Inc.
www.knoxmachinery.com
See our inventory online!
Live Pure, Speak Truth, Right Wrong, and Stay Strong.
Thank you all for all of your support
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you and all yours
[/b]
12-28-2008, 09:46 AM
#5
Senior Member
RACING JUNKIE
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Emmett, Idaho
Posts: 7,334
12-28-2008, 03:18 PM
#6
Junior Member
SHOW GUEST
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1
There are many in this country who speak as though they love freedom, yet turn around and support every government theft-and-handout program and every war that comes down the pike. At least if it's done by their favorite political party. And both major parties indulge in that type of thing.
Even if we all agreed that government should run everything it wouldn't work. It never has and never will. It's a fatally flawed and grossly simplistic idea. It always ends in disaster.
Bush was a disaster for freedom and so will be Obama. Neither understands or cares for freedom because it means they need to keep their hands off, and their constituents wouldn't like that. Nor would they. Odd how, given freedom and a belief in "democracy", people try to be little tyrants. The old saying "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner." is very true.
Wouldn't it be better if we could just keep what we earn and use it to enhance our lives in the way we see fit? To me it seems that if a company fails it's because people either don't want their products or the companies expenses are too high to make a profit at a competitive selling price. Either way, we're better off without it, at least in its present form.
By the way, I buy Chinese made products because even if they are often of lower quality, they are always much cheaper. Without these products I simply wouldn't own many things I now have so I'm not taking anything away from Americans. If I need higher quality stuff I buy American or Japanese, etc. depending on which is the best deal. If the government wouldn't steal from me so much I would buy more high quality things too.
Even if we all agreed that government should run everything it wouldn't work. It never has and never will. It's a fatally flawed and grossly simplistic idea. It always ends in disaster.
Bush was a disaster for freedom and so will be Obama. Neither understands or cares for freedom because it means they need to keep their hands off, and their constituents wouldn't like that. Nor would they. Odd how, given freedom and a belief in "democracy", people try to be little tyrants. The old saying "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner." is very true.
Wouldn't it be better if we could just keep what we earn and use it to enhance our lives in the way we see fit? To me it seems that if a company fails it's because people either don't want their products or the companies expenses are too high to make a profit at a competitive selling price. Either way, we're better off without it, at least in its present form.
By the way, I buy Chinese made products because even if they are often of lower quality, they are always much cheaper. Without these products I simply wouldn't own many things I now have so I'm not taking anything away from Americans. If I need higher quality stuff I buy American or Japanese, etc. depending on which is the best deal. If the government wouldn't steal from me so much I would buy more high quality things too.
12-31-2008, 07:10 AM
#7
Senior Member
RACING JUNKIE
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Emmett, Idaho
Posts: 7,334
