Alcohol and Nitromethane
12-14-2008, 09:33 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by spudmiller
If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right.
Nitromethane is an extremely cost effective way to make economical parts and pieces perform like you wouldn't believe. The tone here seems to be that one would be foolish to run it and it would be like setting fire to good money. My sentiments are pretty much the opposite...buy the good liquid and feed it right to go fast instead of spending bucks on trick parts made out of unobtainium. Also, parts designed for brute strength are cheaper than trick, lightweight, canted-valve, jewelry. So, buy for strength and dump in more juice.
I ran an extremely cheap small block chevy for 5 seasons with almost no maintenance. Same bearings, same rings...I finally wore out the bores and retired it for new iron. It was running when I shut it off. In fact, its last pass was a final round appearance. Hundreds and hundreds of passes on 50-75% nitro. I did need to put two new pistons in it once due to over revving it on the burn out. Changed head gaskets a couple of times until I learned what worked. That's it. No trick parts or pieces and I was able to beat up pretty well on blown alcohol motors. It won many rounds, won quite a few events and I didn't spend a ton of money.
Spud Miller
www.onehotchilipepper.com
Nitromethane is an extremely cost effective way to make economical parts and pieces perform like you wouldn't believe. The tone here seems to be that one would be foolish to run it and it would be like setting fire to good money. My sentiments are pretty much the opposite...buy the good liquid and feed it right to go fast instead of spending bucks on trick parts made out of unobtainium. Also, parts designed for brute strength are cheaper than trick, lightweight, canted-valve, jewelry. So, buy for strength and dump in more juice.
I ran an extremely cheap small block chevy for 5 seasons with almost no maintenance. Same bearings, same rings...I finally wore out the bores and retired it for new iron. It was running when I shut it off. In fact, its last pass was a final round appearance. Hundreds and hundreds of passes on 50-75% nitro. I did need to put two new pistons in it once due to over revving it on the burn out. Changed head gaskets a couple of times until I learned what worked. That's it. No trick parts or pieces and I was able to beat up pretty well on blown alcohol motors. It won many rounds, won quite a few events and I didn't spend a ton of money.
Spud Miller
www.onehotchilipepper.com
I took this off www.onehotchilipepper.com :
1.) Things are looking up in Chili Pepper land. After wrecking a crankshaft on the initial fireup last month, things are rumbling again with a brand new crank balanced at the last minute, put in some hours helping to get the powerplant back together, mounted in the chassis and reconnected. Our fireup in the driveway went much better than before
2.) Apparently, something in the Powerglide transmission was really mad and wanted out. The case was severly split and a big chunk of aluminum was laying on the floorpan with oil gushing out of the gaping hole. It appears as though we found another weak link
3.) We worked like dogs three long days in a row to get the car all put together and ready to fire. She started right up and sounded great! Unfortunately, the oil drained out sparkly, dark and burned
4.) So, after a week off, we will pull the motor, tear it down, put new bearings in it and maybe a new crank. We may take the tranny to our expert tranny guy for inspection. Then we'll put it back together and find a good weekend to test and upgrade my licens
5.) We seem to be having an issue with the new rings seating on cylinder #4 & 6 and are getting a bunch of oil in those cylinders. The poor seal is also letting a lot of fuel by and into the oil
6.)Our streak of bad luck at Bremerton continues. We've ruined engines, spun bearings, broke output shafts and now red lit in the first round at the historic old strip. We have won events there but usually not without mishap
7.) On the second qualifier, I nailed it as the tree lit yellow. I felt and heard a loud "POP!" as though something broke. I lifted figuring I was blowing oil all over the track. As I pulled the car over to the side I revved the motor a couple of times
8.) I noticed lots of aluminum on the #6 spark plug and knew something was wrong. No smoke, so away we went for the final round
I guess my perception of "If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right." is just different than everybody elses.
IMO Nitro makes HP but not without side effects.
If the professor of Nitro is having some side effects with the use of Nitro, why would we tell others that might not be as knowledgible about Nitro that it does cause more engine part failures if you do it right.
IMO it would be like putting John Forces setup in my car and not expecting anymore problems than I have with just alcohol injection. I'm sorry but I don't agree with the post. I just don't think its even close to being accurate. :? :? :?
12-14-2008, 10:42 PM
#22
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IMO it would be like putting John Forces setup in my car and not expecting anymore problems than I have with just alcohol injection. I'm sorry but I don't agree with the post. I just don't think its even close to being accurate.
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Hehe, couldn't you put JF's setup in your car and make it run :lol: ,
I wouldn't even know how to fire it up.
ops:
Zip.
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Hehe, couldn't you put JF's setup in your car and make it run :lol: ,
I wouldn't even know how to fire it up.
ops: Zip.
12-15-2008, 03:48 PM
#24
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Items 1-5 above had nothing to do with nitro at all. Did you read the stuff in between the comments you lifted? Engine assembly error. Tranny was worn out. A stock case with about a zillion passes on it from 5 different owners. Nothing lasts forever even if you're running butane.
Item #6 above refers to our first season where WE WEREN'T DOING IT RIGHT and there was no one offering answers. I learned by doing. My "nitro notes" has photos of broken main caps and other carnage from that first year. All told, probably $1,500 in damage. Not too bad because my stuff is cheap. Some of the blown guys I run with that have more in pulleys than that
#6 was really about the red light. Not nitro's fault.
Item #7 was not even a mechanical problem - driver error again. Nitro was not at fault there. I had a hangnail and bad breath that day too. Damned nitro
Item #8 was when I over revved it on the burn out for the first qualifying pass and hurt pistons. Driver error again. I went on to win the event anyway with a little smoke on the right side. Nitro had nothing to do with it. This disaster cost $263 in parts to fix. I spent more on motel rooms and tow-rig gas than that - my junk is not exotic. The winnings more than covered the parts.
Of course, you didn't cut and paste anything GOOD from my website. Now I know what it feels like to have comments taken out of context, and listed all together so that someone can try to make their case and be right. Good job!
Take the combination you are running right now with race gas or methanol and spend enough on shiny new parts to make another 200-300 ft. lbs. of torque with it. You'll probably break trannies too and find the weak link in your setup eventually. So then would you declare the race gas evil? Methanol the nasty beast that breaks all your parts? No, you probably wouldn't. You'd think "Wow, tho$e part$ worked great - I'm making lot$ of power now!" What's the difference? The difference is how much you spent to go faster.
My point was (and still is) that if your goal is to make more power (which everyone seems to want to do) and the type of racing you do allows it (NHRA bracket racing does not allow nitro), then why wouldn't you put 30% in your tank and make an affordable couple of hundred foot pounds of torque? You could build a brand new bigger engine ($$$) to do that instead. Or put a blower on it ($$$$$) if you'd rather. If you think nitro is really that evil, then I'm certainly not here to change your mind. Lots of folks are curious however, and I encourage people to try it in lower percentages. It works.
Have fun,
Spud
Item #6 above refers to our first season where WE WEREN'T DOING IT RIGHT and there was no one offering answers. I learned by doing. My "nitro notes" has photos of broken main caps and other carnage from that first year. All told, probably $1,500 in damage. Not too bad because my stuff is cheap. Some of the blown guys I run with that have more in pulleys than that
#6 was really about the red light. Not nitro's fault.Item #7 was not even a mechanical problem - driver error again. Nitro was not at fault there. I had a hangnail and bad breath that day too. Damned nitro
Item #8 was when I over revved it on the burn out for the first qualifying pass and hurt pistons. Driver error again. I went on to win the event anyway with a little smoke on the right side. Nitro had nothing to do with it. This disaster cost $263 in parts to fix. I spent more on motel rooms and tow-rig gas than that - my junk is not exotic. The winnings more than covered the parts.
Of course, you didn't cut and paste anything GOOD from my website. Now I know what it feels like to have comments taken out of context, and listed all together so that someone can try to make their case and be right. Good job!
Take the combination you are running right now with race gas or methanol and spend enough on shiny new parts to make another 200-300 ft. lbs. of torque with it. You'll probably break trannies too and find the weak link in your setup eventually. So then would you declare the race gas evil? Methanol the nasty beast that breaks all your parts? No, you probably wouldn't. You'd think "Wow, tho$e part$ worked great - I'm making lot$ of power now!" What's the difference? The difference is how much you spent to go faster.
My point was (and still is) that if your goal is to make more power (which everyone seems to want to do) and the type of racing you do allows it (NHRA bracket racing does not allow nitro), then why wouldn't you put 30% in your tank and make an affordable couple of hundred foot pounds of torque? You could build a brand new bigger engine ($$$) to do that instead. Or put a blower on it ($$$$$) if you'd rather. If you think nitro is really that evil, then I'm certainly not here to change your mind. Lots of folks are curious however, and I encourage people to try it in lower percentages. It works.
Have fun,
Spud
12-15-2008, 05:07 PM
#25
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I sorry I didn't pull any of the good stuff off your web page. In going thru your web site looks like you have done a great job running against some of the Goliths of the world. Looks like you even slayed a few. Which is what I love to do. I once won a race and had someone tell me a 2500.00 dollar car just out run a million dollars worth of cars. Kudos to you on that. I've just been lucky enough to have been able to step it up a bit in my old age.
Now getting back to the subject at hand. My dragster runs 7.70s without Nitro and weather your breaking parts due to what you call drivers error, old parts, slick track, red lites, or just not knowing what your doing with nitro at the time. You've still broke more parts in 2 years than I've broke in 10 years. and to tell someone that might not have your knowledge about nitro that it doesn't break anymore parts than without is ridicules.
So I still have to X2 Bjuice in his statement:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and i feel advising someone they can/should run 50%-75% nitro in a bracket series car and expect it to live for hundreds of passes is Not good advise ( IMO).
So have fun,
dparker
Now getting back to the subject at hand. My dragster runs 7.70s without Nitro and weather your breaking parts due to what you call drivers error, old parts, slick track, red lites, or just not knowing what your doing with nitro at the time. You've still broke more parts in 2 years than I've broke in 10 years. and to tell someone that might not have your knowledge about nitro that it doesn't break anymore parts than without is ridicules.
So I still have to X2 Bjuice in his statement:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and i feel advising someone they can/should run 50%-75% nitro in a bracket series car and expect it to live for hundreds of passes is Not good advise ( IMO).
So have fun,
dparker
12-15-2008, 05:09 PM
#26
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Mr. Juice,
I never advised anyone to run 50-75% in my previous post. Running a little bit is just fine, but I wouldn't say everyone should do that either. I don't think people running a "bracket series car" "can/should run 50-75%". Where does all this come from? Did I say that?
What is the "right direction" you're trying to steer people exactly? How you run your car? Should we all do that? You're right, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We're all pretty fond of how we do it, aren't we?
It's obvious from this thread that there is a lot of misinformation out there about nitro. Pardon me for trying to clear up old wives tales and myths when I see them. I assume most people would like facts and not fiction. Maybe some folks would like to hear about a different way to skin a cat!
As for your question: ("How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky")...
I run a small, naturally aspirated, injected nitro motor making about 980 HP and turning 7.30's.
Those guys are SUPERCHARGED, 90% nitro at tremendous boost levels making 6000+HP turning 4.40's. Big difference, that's how.
Spud
I never advised anyone to run 50-75% in my previous post. Running a little bit is just fine, but I wouldn't say everyone should do that either. I don't think people running a "bracket series car" "can/should run 50-75%". Where does all this come from? Did I say that?
What is the "right direction" you're trying to steer people exactly? How you run your car? Should we all do that? You're right, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We're all pretty fond of how we do it, aren't we?
It's obvious from this thread that there is a lot of misinformation out there about nitro. Pardon me for trying to clear up old wives tales and myths when I see them. I assume most people would like facts and not fiction. Maybe some folks would like to hear about a different way to skin a cat!
As for your question: ("How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky")...
I run a small, naturally aspirated, injected nitro motor making about 980 HP and turning 7.30's.
Those guys are SUPERCHARGED, 90% nitro at tremendous boost levels making 6000+HP turning 4.40's. Big difference, that's how.
Spud
12-15-2008, 05:54 PM
#27
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Mr. Parker,
And I'm going faster than you...that's what happens when you go nearly a half-second quicker. Buy enough parts to turn 7.300's with your dragster and I bet you find a part or two in there somewhere that wasn't up to the task if you do it twenty times. You'll replace those parts with better ones and then continue on to be a little quicker or faster if you like a challenge. Have you been doing 7.70's for 10 years now? Then you are by all means an expert on going 7.70 if you aren't breaking any parts.
It isn't ridiculous. What is ridiculous is the myth that nitro is an evil substance that causes parts to evaporate and fail at an incredible rate (see earlier posts in this thread). And that one might as well light money on fire instead of use nitro at all. That is ridiculous and people who think that just don't know the subject at all. When it is presented as fact and someone who asks about it here is told this, it propagates the myth. That isn't "steering people in the right direction", that's misinformation.
Parts breakage is about exceeding the design limits of the parts. Don't go there, and you won't get into trouble. That has nothing to do with the fuel. Nitromethane, methanol, diesel, kerosene, lighter fluid - whatever you want to run. It'll fail if you make enough power to exceed what the parts can take.
Well, excuse me for interfering with your efforts to keep everyone here going "the right direction". I guess I assumed some folks might be interested in other options along with some facts, advice and encouragement from someone that has actually been doing it.
So long,
Spud
Originally Posted by dparker
...You've still broke more parts in 2 years than I've broke in 10 years.
Originally Posted by dparker
...and to tell someone that might not have your knowledge about nitro that it doesn't break anymore parts than without is ridicules.
Parts breakage is about exceeding the design limits of the parts. Don't go there, and you won't get into trouble. That has nothing to do with the fuel. Nitromethane, methanol, diesel, kerosene, lighter fluid - whatever you want to run. It'll fail if you make enough power to exceed what the parts can take.
Originally Posted by dparker
So I still have to X2 Bjuice in his statement:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and I feel...
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and I feel...
So long,
Spud
12-15-2008, 06:29 PM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by spudmiller
Mr. Juice,
I never advised anyone to run 50-75% in my previous post. Running a little bit is just fine, but I wouldn't say everyone should do that either. I don't think people running a "bracket series car" "can/should run 50-75%". Where does all this come from? Did I say that?
What is the "right direction" you're trying to steer people exactly? How you run your car? Should we all do that? You're right, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We're all pretty fond of how we do it, aren't we?
It's obvious from this thread that there is a lot of misinformation out there about nitro. Pardon me for trying to clear up old wives tales and myths when I see them. I assume most people would like facts and not fiction. Maybe some folks would like to hear about a different way to skin a cat!
As for your question: ("How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky")...
I run a small, naturally aspirated, injected nitro motor making about 980 HP and turning 7.30's.
Those guys are SUPERCHARGED, 90% nitro at tremendous boost levels making 6000+HP turning 4.40's. Big difference, that's how.
Spud
I never advised anyone to run 50-75% in my previous post. Running a little bit is just fine, but I wouldn't say everyone should do that either. I don't think people running a "bracket series car" "can/should run 50-75%". Where does all this come from? Did I say that?
What is the "right direction" you're trying to steer people exactly? How you run your car? Should we all do that? You're right, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We're all pretty fond of how we do it, aren't we?
It's obvious from this thread that there is a lot of misinformation out there about nitro. Pardon me for trying to clear up old wives tales and myths when I see them. I assume most people would like facts and not fiction. Maybe some folks would like to hear about a different way to skin a cat!
As for your question: ("How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky")...
I run a small, naturally aspirated, injected nitro motor making about 980 HP and turning 7.30's.
Those guys are SUPERCHARGED, 90% nitro at tremendous boost levels making 6000+HP turning 4.40's. Big difference, that's how.
Spud
Someone can get on here and give their OPEN opinions but when they get another Opinion in the form of feedback they get all bent out of shape...Gezzz :roll: ..
Spud not all of us are professional's like yourself..with that said many people on here are LAYMEN of the sport and some ACTUALLY TRY WHAT THEY READ
I read your original post OVER AND OVER and i come to the same conclusion each time in that your post is very much leaning toward "its ok to run 50%-75" Nitro and Not hurt your motor cause i do it for hundreds of passes myself...What information does this spell for the LAYMEN...?.."It's ok to run 50%-75% Nitro for hundreds of passes with no issues..
so IN MY OPINION your post AT BEST was Mis-leading to the common racer..Maybe some other fuel experts followed you.
and NO i do not give advise and make claims as large as you did..cause i know people may try what they read. :shock:
AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION...so feel free to un-wad those panties
__________________
Bjuice..
"I'M YOUR HUCKLEBERRY ! "
Bjuice..
"I'M YOUR HUCKLEBERRY ! "
12-15-2008, 08:02 PM
#29
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I like feedback. I even like some criticism. But I don't like people putting words in my mouth, or presenting things I've said out of context to attempt to discredit me like was done above. The wads you see in my panties are genuine.
It's really good the "laymen" here have you guys to interpret the various posts for them and tell them how foolish they'd be to go and try something so oh-my-gawd-dangerous-and-destructive.
You guys are right. Wild hooligans like me shouldn't hang out in a place like this practicing evil among the innocent. The solution obviously is for me to go away and let you guys go back to what you were doing here.
Have fun,
Spud
It's really good the "laymen" here have you guys to interpret the various posts for them and tell them how foolish they'd be to go and try something so oh-my-gawd-dangerous-and-destructive.
You guys are right. Wild hooligans like me shouldn't hang out in a place like this practicing evil among the innocent. The solution obviously is for me to go away and let you guys go back to what you were doing here.
Have fun,
Spud
12-16-2008, 06:44 AM
#30
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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No you don't like feedback. And no is not that anyone is putting words in your mouth its that you wont take accountablity for what you've said here and on your website. The reason I joked around about John Force was because I saw it on your website:
"The new rules say anything goes...timers, computers, automated new fangled control gadgets, whatever you want to run. The driver still has to shift the car and launch the car, that's it. So, if John Force puts a 23T body on his funny car, he's welcome to run with us. Really. How's that for nostalgia?"
I've read your intial post at least 10 times and everytime I read it I'm thinking this is total BS. Then I read your web page and I can see your an accomplished racer in your field of racing. Then I see how many parts you've broke in the last 2 years and again I'm thinking total BS about your first post. You didn't even give one word of advice on what could go wrong or what you need to watch for. Shoot Its like changing valve covers, no worries. Dang, Ive put up a post and someone came back and showed my way wasn't best and I've wished I would have just keep that post to myself. But I didn't keep trying to defend that post.
And geez it not even that bad. But after each post you get angerier. Its your BS in your first post that started all this. But Ive seen this ego before though. Every area has a 7.00 to 7.70 blown or nostalgia class. And when they come in once or twice a year they think they own the track. They come to the track park however and/or wherever they want. Strut around like their top fuelers. A few years ago it was because they were faster, but now half of their qualifiers wouldn't even make the field if our everyday bracketracing dragsters entered. Ive been racing in this area for the last 30 years and have raced with most of these guys, and they never won until they put nitro or a blower on and start racing one of these classes.
Now that my panties are in a wad. I went to the web site where you went to the finals. Lets look at the final round, shall we.
Nostalgia B
W: George Moore, Redmond, OR ('23 T) .123, 8.159, 164.83 (7.99 dial).
R/U: Spud Miller, Philomath, OR ('08 Garys) .099, 7.310, 175.13 (7.33 dial).
The first thing that pops out is Nostalgia B. Hmm?
Well lets see I don't think a .099 would win many rounds anywhere else. I know it won't here. But it gets better, He only runs 10 mph slower than you but you still can't put a tire on him. He is over his dial by 17 hundreths and over 2 hundreths worse on the light. You had 2 tenths to put a tire on him and couldn't get it done. Where we race we call those type of racers DUCKS not wild hooligans.
Have Fun,
dparker
"The new rules say anything goes...timers, computers, automated new fangled control gadgets, whatever you want to run. The driver still has to shift the car and launch the car, that's it. So, if John Force puts a 23T body on his funny car, he's welcome to run with us. Really. How's that for nostalgia?"
I've read your intial post at least 10 times and everytime I read it I'm thinking this is total BS. Then I read your web page and I can see your an accomplished racer in your field of racing. Then I see how many parts you've broke in the last 2 years and again I'm thinking total BS about your first post. You didn't even give one word of advice on what could go wrong or what you need to watch for. Shoot Its like changing valve covers, no worries. Dang, Ive put up a post and someone came back and showed my way wasn't best and I've wished I would have just keep that post to myself. But I didn't keep trying to defend that post.
And geez it not even that bad. But after each post you get angerier. Its your BS in your first post that started all this. But Ive seen this ego before though. Every area has a 7.00 to 7.70 blown or nostalgia class. And when they come in once or twice a year they think they own the track. They come to the track park however and/or wherever they want. Strut around like their top fuelers. A few years ago it was because they were faster, but now half of their qualifiers wouldn't even make the field if our everyday bracketracing dragsters entered. Ive been racing in this area for the last 30 years and have raced with most of these guys, and they never won until they put nitro or a blower on and start racing one of these classes.
Now that my panties are in a wad. I went to the web site where you went to the finals. Lets look at the final round, shall we.
Nostalgia B
W: George Moore, Redmond, OR ('23 T) .123, 8.159, 164.83 (7.99 dial).
R/U: Spud Miller, Philomath, OR ('08 Garys) .099, 7.310, 175.13 (7.33 dial).
The first thing that pops out is Nostalgia B. Hmm?
Well lets see I don't think a .099 would win many rounds anywhere else. I know it won't here. But it gets better, He only runs 10 mph slower than you but you still can't put a tire on him. He is over his dial by 17 hundreths and over 2 hundreths worse on the light. You had 2 tenths to put a tire on him and couldn't get it done. Where we race we call those type of racers DUCKS not wild hooligans.
Have Fun,
dparker