Intake runner size for 582 BBC -tech help-
11-27-2007, 02:16 AM
#21
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Thats what I am saying. Steve's 505 has heads that would be considered by anyone reading this thread, to be WAAAY to big at 370cc on a 505 "street" engine, but, it is still out of control
Now, like I said, I am one for totaly overdoing it, and, if you want to build a 582 then do it. I was just trying to point a few things out to him is all. In that chassis, unless its really set up well, and you use sticky tires, it still won;t hook on the street, short of being tubbed. And, can be dangerous to boot. I also gave that advise, because if you build an engine like that, put small heads on it, and a way to small cam, it will peak power early, and quit. If you ran a 2.73 gear, and a tight converter, it could work I suppose, but that will kill performance too, making it not worth building that combo. Note: These are my opinions, based from expierience, I am sure some of you disagree with my thought processes. Which is fine. I just don;t see the point of building an engine like that and running no gear, and a tight converter, to kill tq multiplication, of an engine you built, to make big tq. Doesn;t make sense to me. I would rather build something a bit smaller. Heck, even a nice 496 with big block would be absolutely killer in that thing, even a 461 with 048's, or 781's, and a mild solid cam would be.
Frank
Advanced performance
www.get-ap.com
Now, like I said, I am one for totaly overdoing it, and, if you want to build a 582 then do it. I was just trying to point a few things out to him is all. In that chassis, unless its really set up well, and you use sticky tires, it still won;t hook on the street, short of being tubbed. And, can be dangerous to boot. I also gave that advise, because if you build an engine like that, put small heads on it, and a way to small cam, it will peak power early, and quit. If you ran a 2.73 gear, and a tight converter, it could work I suppose, but that will kill performance too, making it not worth building that combo. Note: These are my opinions, based from expierience, I am sure some of you disagree with my thought processes. Which is fine. I just don;t see the point of building an engine like that and running no gear, and a tight converter, to kill tq multiplication, of an engine you built, to make big tq. Doesn;t make sense to me. I would rather build something a bit smaller. Heck, even a nice 496 with big block would be absolutely killer in that thing, even a 461 with 048's, or 781's, and a mild solid cam would be.
Frank
Advanced performance
www.get-ap.com
11-27-2007, 04:33 AM
#22
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RACING JUNKIE
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,137
I am nobody compaired to these guys here...but just my .02 cents.
You will ruin that car. I only say that because you mentioned crating the original drive trane...which leads me to believe you don't want a ragged out "street race" type car..you want to keep it nice. With no cage,( and a 582) if you take that to the track much at all with good tires (if it hooks up)you will have that car a mess.Door and fender gaps etc. Just my opinion.
You will ruin that car. I only say that because you mentioned crating the original drive trane...which leads me to believe you don't want a ragged out "street race" type car..you want to keep it nice. With no cage,( and a 582) if you take that to the track much at all with good tires (if it hooks up)you will have that car a mess.Door and fender gaps etc. Just my opinion.
11-27-2007, 01:34 PM
#23
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MASTER JOURNEYMAN
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lowell, IN
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Pwmax
You won;t have to rev it 7500. If all you had were mushy small blocks in the past, this combo will be a huge eye opener. As far as cams go, is this going to be a weekend type fun car, or do you plan to run it cross country? If it were mine, I would be building it on the more radical side, as I don't really cruise my car all that far in a givin trip. That many cubes will need a fairly large cam. Not necessarily lift, but, duration. The more lift the better obviously, but then you get into more longevity issues with lifters and springs.
If it were mine, I would put a cam in it that had a lot more duration than most guys would even consider for a " street" car, but, like I said, I live no more than 15 miles from numerous cruise spots where I live, and, I am big into drag racing, so, if I built a big engine like that, I would want to take advantage of it. With that said, I would have 2 sets of intake rockers, like a 1.6 and a set of 1.8 or 1.85:1. Use the low ratio rackers on the street to keep the loads down, and max it out with the high ratio rockers for the track. Knowing me though, I would just run the 1.8's all the time, and just keep tabs on overthing. But, I would be in the 280 range at .050, with .800+ lift, with wide lobe sep. If thats too radical, then something in the 270's, with mid .700's would be good, and I would use a lobe that wasn;t quite as aggressive, like a Comps Hi-Tech roller lobes.
To know for sure on the cam, what your plans are with the car, and what you want to do with it need to be known.
Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com
If it were mine, I would put a cam in it that had a lot more duration than most guys would even consider for a " street" car, but, like I said, I live no more than 15 miles from numerous cruise spots where I live, and, I am big into drag racing, so, if I built a big engine like that, I would want to take advantage of it. With that said, I would have 2 sets of intake rockers, like a 1.6 and a set of 1.8 or 1.85:1. Use the low ratio rackers on the street to keep the loads down, and max it out with the high ratio rockers for the track. Knowing me though, I would just run the 1.8's all the time, and just keep tabs on overthing. But, I would be in the 280 range at .050, with .800+ lift, with wide lobe sep. If thats too radical, then something in the 270's, with mid .700's would be good, and I would use a lobe that wasn;t quite as aggressive, like a Comps Hi-Tech roller lobes.
To know for sure on the cam, what your plans are with the car, and what you want to do with it need to be known.
Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com
I live within 20 miles of most any cruise/show that I will attend so I agree with a little more on the exotic side. My engine list thus far is Dart 9.8 block, Eagle rotating assembly, and dart pro one heads or similiar. I can pick up the short block for under $4k and the heads for $2k. It doesn't seem to matter if I want to build a 502 or 582 - roughly same money. I would like to think that I am similiar to a lot of weekend warriors that want to run full on race cars like some of the big guys on here, but will probably never gut out my show car for the maximum effort car. I would rather tone down a bigger cube motor now, than have to throw a ton of money at a smaller engine to make the same hp at the track. I can sense that I am causing quite a few of you veteran builders to scratch your head and laugh, but I do value everyone's input as it will surely keep me from making stupid mistakes.
8) Thanks 8)
11-28-2007, 07:27 AM
#24
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You already have me worried. I am not trying to sell you a thing here either. But, I have a very good idea, where you are thinking about getting this short block and heads from. And, all I can say is, cheap is cheap. Under $4000 for a 582 short block, and under $2k for the heads. I know where it is, and all I can say is, keep your fingers crossed, and I will wish you luck. Don't believe me, go to the scammers section, on this sight and take a peak.
You will get a finished hone block, washed and stuffed with cam bearings, and called race prepped. You will get a generic balance job, that was done to a "universal bob weight". Meaning, they weighed a set of rods, similiar pistons, rings and bearings, at some time in the past, and, thats the bob weight they use for EVERY one they do like that. How can you precision balance a rotating assembly, when none of the parts have ever been un-boxed? Every piston still wrapped up, bearings never opened, rings never opened, every rod still in its un opened platic bag, etc. Then, some 20 year old kid, who gets a bonus for getting them together faster hammers the thing together, not one clearance is checked or verified, and presto, you have a "Race engine". The heads, are pulled out of the box, dusted off, the valves stuffed in, a spring shim put under the springs, and wing bang boom, your "race prepped" heads are ready to bolt on!! Some work, many don't. I know of a few guys who have fallen victim to the cheapest race engine shop in the world, and they are amongst the slowest guys at the track. One guy even refers to his 565 he got there, that was supposedely over 940hp, as the worlds slowest 565. In a 2800 lbs, trick 65 chevy 2, that was done by a local chassis shop that build killer cars, that went in the 7's when they had, it now barely goes 9.30's, on the bottle!!. It should run 8.60-70's or faster, on the motor, with that power.
As apposed to how I do it, and how it should be done. Block gets deburred, I re-tq the mains, and check main housing bore sizes, many times, I add arp studs, and re-dust the mains on the line hone, depending on application. The block gets BHJ block trued and re-cut decks for a smooth Ra finish, to use cometic or other mls gaskets. And set deck heights. Dart does a good job, and they are within .005, but, I want them at .0001. Thats 1 tenth. The cylinders are usualy bored and then tq plate honed with a plataeu type honing procedure, that Dart recomends. We do it exactly like they say to. Multiple grit stones, to get the Ra and Rz values correct. Then whatever rotating parts are used, every compnenet is weighed, and adjusted as necessary, then, the bob weight is done up, and the crank is balanced to less than .5 grams. Not even going to get into the assembly procedures, or the head prep. But, thats the correct way to do it. Obviously I charge more, and I won;t sell as many, but guess what, I don;t deal with tons of headaches from un-happy customers, and I don;t have numerous court litigations pending.
Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com
You will get a finished hone block, washed and stuffed with cam bearings, and called race prepped. You will get a generic balance job, that was done to a "universal bob weight". Meaning, they weighed a set of rods, similiar pistons, rings and bearings, at some time in the past, and, thats the bob weight they use for EVERY one they do like that. How can you precision balance a rotating assembly, when none of the parts have ever been un-boxed? Every piston still wrapped up, bearings never opened, rings never opened, every rod still in its un opened platic bag, etc. Then, some 20 year old kid, who gets a bonus for getting them together faster hammers the thing together, not one clearance is checked or verified, and presto, you have a "Race engine". The heads, are pulled out of the box, dusted off, the valves stuffed in, a spring shim put under the springs, and wing bang boom, your "race prepped" heads are ready to bolt on!! Some work, many don't. I know of a few guys who have fallen victim to the cheapest race engine shop in the world, and they are amongst the slowest guys at the track. One guy even refers to his 565 he got there, that was supposedely over 940hp, as the worlds slowest 565. In a 2800 lbs, trick 65 chevy 2, that was done by a local chassis shop that build killer cars, that went in the 7's when they had, it now barely goes 9.30's, on the bottle!!. It should run 8.60-70's or faster, on the motor, with that power.
As apposed to how I do it, and how it should be done. Block gets deburred, I re-tq the mains, and check main housing bore sizes, many times, I add arp studs, and re-dust the mains on the line hone, depending on application. The block gets BHJ block trued and re-cut decks for a smooth Ra finish, to use cometic or other mls gaskets. And set deck heights. Dart does a good job, and they are within .005, but, I want them at .0001. Thats 1 tenth. The cylinders are usualy bored and then tq plate honed with a plataeu type honing procedure, that Dart recomends. We do it exactly like they say to. Multiple grit stones, to get the Ra and Rz values correct. Then whatever rotating parts are used, every compnenet is weighed, and adjusted as necessary, then, the bob weight is done up, and the crank is balanced to less than .5 grams. Not even going to get into the assembly procedures, or the head prep. But, thats the correct way to do it. Obviously I charge more, and I won;t sell as many, but guess what, I don;t deal with tons of headaches from un-happy customers, and I don;t have numerous court litigations pending.
Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com
11-29-2007, 10:57 AM
#25
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MASTER JOURNEYMAN
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lowell, IN
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Pwmax
You already have me worried. I am not trying to sell you a thing here either. But, I have a very good idea, where you are thinking about getting this short block and heads from. And, all I can say is, cheap is cheap. Under $4000 for a 582 short block, and under $2k for the heads. I know where it is, and all I can say is, keep your fingers crossed, and I will wish you luck. Don't believe me, go to the scammers section, on this sight and take a peak.
11-29-2007, 12:45 PM
#26
Junior Member
APPRENTICE
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13
Pwrmax, I like your thought about running different ratio rockers arms as a means of changine the cam profile. Generally speaking if someone is switching from 1.7 ratio to 1.8 on a BBC does the pushrod length change as well? I currently run 1.7 ratio on a solid roller and would like to try 1.8 in lieu of changing cams. Thanks.
