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Thread: Ford TUFF or Ford WEAK?

  1. #1
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    Ford TUFF or Ford WEAK?

    You decide for yourself :lol:

    My friend David has a mid 80's tube T'bird that he foot brakes. It runs consistent 5.80's on gas with 514" stock blk. with Blue Thunder heads and a 1050 Dom.
    He decides he wants to go faster and put a 4.1 toilet bowl on it with alcohol. He sends the toilet to Ron and has him check it out and the -1/2 pump. all comes back o'k. so i help him find the numbers/pill size. the car run better but spits and sputters on top end. So he calls Rons and ask him what the pump flows, Ron just says it's in spec. (not a good answer in my opinion) so i sell him a DSR -1 pump and help tune it. Man the car came alive, it started running good and was hitting the 7200 chip before the end of the 1/8 mi with the 5.14 gears, but it did drop to 5.69/5.72. Well the 4th pass the cars goes all over the track. Comes back to the pits and jack up the readend, BINGO it broke the rearend housing in half (it was a small ford housing 2 7/8 bearing no bracing, you could see a 2' gap and see the axle on 1 side, the only thing holding the wheel on was the 4 link bars. O'k, build a new big banjo 3.25 bearing housing in install 4.56 gears and a little more fine tuning and the car goes 4 passes at 5.62/5.63 # 123 and change, up from 117 on gas. Well he loses the 3 rd. with a bad light, and loads up the car. Last race of the yrs. so there is a couple hundred passes on the engine between gas and alcohol. Pull it down and it's got a cheap rotating assy except for rods with L19 bolts, a 9000 cast steel crank and SRP pistons. And i'll say it again those cast steel cranks run around like a jump rope. Long story short 3 spun mains (only lost 10lb oil pressure). Now i will say i DONOT want to play poker with David, one more pass he probably would have dumped the whole lower end on the track.

    Just look at the blk.

    It's almost back together with a Ford Motorsports simeze blk. with Diamond pistons, and a 4340 crank @ 545"

    Zip.


  2. #2
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE TheYellaBrick's Avatar
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    I'd say Ford LUCKY !

    :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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  3. #3
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    DD the only reason i posted this is because a few engine builders are tauting this combo, with not as good heads, in fact a couple of them adverise here on RJ and i just think that people should know before spending $5,000.00 to $7,000.00 on a short blk using the stock 460 blk (and there are millions of them out there to use) to just be careful what you throw into them.

    JMO

    Zip.

  4. #4
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE mytmouz's Avatar
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    Is this the grey 'bird owned by Tracy's neighbor Zip?
    If you think nobody cares, try missing a payment...

  5. #5
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    Quote Originally Posted by mytmouz
    Is this the grey 'bird owned by Tracy's neighbor Zip?
    Yes it is David Barone's car, lot's of people saw it run 5.80's on gas. You and Rabbit both saw it run at Byhalia in Oct. 2010, running consistent 5.40/5.41 on the short (620 ft track) on gas. I expect it will come back with low 5.40's in the full 1/8 mi. with the 545" motor on foot brake, with the right tune up. We'll find out when he brings it over to my neck of the woods at Twin Cities, Monroe La. in the spring so we can get it tuned right with the larger inch motor.

    Zip.

  6. #6
    Senior Member EXPERT BUILDER gearhead1011's Avatar
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    I would guess it's externally balanced. Neutral balancing will take a huge load off of the #2 and #4 main bearings. It would seem 7200 RPM on a long stroke motor with external balance is asking a lot. I used to run an external balance on my 3.625 stroke SBF. I can't remember what RPM I was shifting at back then but I know it was on the edge of what a stock crank and stock 2 bolt block was capable of. If something broke or I missed a gear it would zing it up against the rev limiter and turn either #4 or #2 main bearing. This would require teardown and line boring the block to repair and after the 3rd time the block was junk. i never scattered it because I run a system 1 filter and always check it after a race. The amount of bearing material in the filter told me it was time to tear it down.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE mytmouz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zipper06
    Quote Originally Posted by mytmouz
    Is this the grey 'bird owned by Tracy's neighbor Zip?
    Yes it is David Barone's car, lot's of people saw it run 5.80's on gas. You and Rabbit both saw it run at Byhalia in Oct. 2010, running consistent 5.40/5.41 on the short (620 ft track) on gas. I expect it will come back with low 5.40's in the full 1/8 mi. with the 545" motor on foot brake, with the right tune up. We'll find out when he brings it over to my neck of the woods at Twin Cities, Monroe La. in the spring so we can get it tuned right with the larger inch motor.

    Zip.
    Righteous car, even if it is a Ford... 8)
    If you think nobody cares, try missing a payment...

  8. #8
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    I am not expert here; but when I heard the combo, times, RPM, passes etc... then heard it was cheap rotating assembly (cast), I was pretty impressed!!
    "I would walk through hell on Sunday before I fear the enemy"

  9. #9
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearhead1011
    I would guess it's externally balanced. Neutral balancing will take a huge load off of the #2 and #4 main bearings. It would seem 7200 RPM on a long stroke motor with external balance is asking a lot. I used to run an external balance on my 3.625 stroke SBF. I can't remember what RPM I was shifting at back then but I know it was on the edge of what a stock crank and stock 2 bolt block was capable of. If something broke or I missed a gear it would zing it up against the rev limiter and turn either #4 or #2 main bearing. This would require teardown and line boring the block to repair and after the 3rd time the block was junk. i never scattered it because I run a system 1 filter and always check it after a race. The amount of bearing material in the filter told me it was time to tear it down.
    Qoute:

    Rigs.

    I am not expert here; but when I heard the combo, times, RPM, passes etc... then heard it was cheap rotating assembly (cast), I was pretty impressed!! So was i Rigs from the very begining when i first saw the car run.

    Yep Chuck, it was an external balanced engine, I donot know the whole history of the car, it he bought it turnkey from a person in NC or SC, he was a retired NHRA super stock racer, and this was his play toy.
    David had never set foot in a race car in his life, but he lives across the street from my long time friend Tracy Smith (Jimmy Smiths son)
    David was a fast learner and made a lot of money in 2009 and 2010, the only changes he made in the car was a new set of valve springs in 2010.
    But like us all we always want to go faster, he didn't know what was inside the motor, so fast forward to the the alcohol setup, with some help he found all the weak links, but expensive.
    The new 545" motor is internal balanced and better built, the cam was also very small .722 total lift, going back with .800 plus, that why i think it will go 5.40's in 2012.

    JMO

    Zip.

  10. #10
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE TheYellaBrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zipper06
    DD the only reason i posted this is because a few engine builders are tauting this combo, with not as good heads, in fact a couple of them adverise here on RJ and i just think that people should know before spending $5,000.00 to $7,000.00 on a short blk using the stock 460 blk (and there are millions of them out there to use) to just be careful what you throw into them.

    JMO

    Zip.
    Boy howdy on THAT, Batman ! I've got a photo from an old HotRod magazine from the 60's, showing an altered at launch with the whole lower end dropping out of the bottom of the engine in a DOWNPOUR of oil and iron.
    I build my engines with THAT picture in my mind. I ain't goin' THERE !
    TRUTH is HATE
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    HATE TRUTH

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