Seriosuly--read the posts. The car DOES NOT have moneys owed to the bank against the title anymore. It didn't when he came and picked the car up. It still has a lien on it because I did NOT turn in my copy of the lien release to the state and also asked my bank to not submit a release because he owed me the 1K, it's very simple. So you can call it what ever you want lively. I don't owe the people on this forum anything--they aren't a court of law--I was more than willing to give wayne what he asked for to him personally. That wasn't good enough for him. Good enough---I'll keep the lien on the car. Call me a baby or a dumby whatever you want---right is right. Period!