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-   -   Scooter + Mopar = LOST (https://www.racingjunk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33422)

Scooterz 04-30-2013 02:35 PM

Scooter + Mopar = LOST
 
gents: everything I have learned about motors is SBC/BBC. I have a 1979 360 mopar in my CJ7 I got a few weeks ago. It has a mild comp energy cam, headers & 4bbl w/ intake... otherwise stock. I hear one lifter tap upon start up & it continues until warm... then goes away. I hate hearing it the on warm-up!! I removed valve cover to adjust. NO DICE. I realized these are not like adjusting a Chevy. What is the best way? I don't want to do anything that might wipe a cam lobe or something... I think cam is 260ish/480ish. Talk to me... impart your wisdom my brethren.

outlaw256 05-01-2013 05:51 AM

either turn up the radio or build you a engine!!

roadkill2 05-01-2013 06:47 AM

I'm with Outlaw . . Get better speakers!

A ticking lifter on startup in a Mopar is generally OEM. It's when the rods rattle that you've got problems!

Scooterz 05-01-2013 08:00 AM

Ken-

Seriously??? Come on people... every tried to turn on a radio in a CJ w/ headers & flowmasters/mud tires??? That is like my wife trying to talk to me when I am watching Duck Dynasty... can't hear her.

TheYellaBrick 05-01-2013 01:42 PM

Ear muffs, ear plugs, and LOUD Radio. Heck, just uncork it and REALLY enjoy the 'music' !

mopar1968 05-05-2013 07:11 AM

If they are Hydro there is no adjustment.Lifter is bleeding down too far.

roadkill2 05-05-2013 07:48 AM

One of two cures. Either replace the lifters (all of 'em) or warm it up good before driving.

Honestly, back when those engines were OEM on 3/4's of the Mopars sold, probably 25% of them had that problem coming off the assembly line and most of 'em went 100k or better, still tickin' . .

But if you can still hear it (or them) when you're going down the road with all that other noise, Better fix 'em . . quick! That loud ticking is the Grenade about to go off!

Scooterz 05-07-2013 02:54 PM

Thanks RK & Mopar.

It is clearly one lifter on the passenger side. Once I have it somewhat warm, it goes away... only when it is cold (2-3 minutes). I am scared about wiping a cam if I replace a lifter(s)... or am I just being paranoid? Motor is really strong otherwise; nice healthy power, no smoke, lots of grunt.

TheYellaBrick 05-07-2013 09:43 PM

My shop truck is a '72 Doge 1/2 ton with a 360/727 combo with a Holley 4412. Over 100k and all I've done is a valve grind in the 20+ years I've owned it. Tows my race cars and anything else and still has lots of grunt left. ONCE in a while I'll get a lifter that won't pump up right off the bat, but it will if I shut it down, refire it and then let it warm up a tad. I don't even put it in gear until the tic tap goes away.

outlaw256 05-08-2013 05:15 AM

calm down scooter. if its one lifter and it quits tickin when it gets warmed up dont worryabout it. i know that easier said than done but once she builds up its fine.its when it wont quit tickin that you should worry.i got a small block been tickin for yrs. also had a 225 that had a main knockin. that thing knocked for 6 yrs and i drove that truck everywhere and hard.one of the things i dont like about fordge pistons is the rattle they make when you first crank them up...

Scooterz 05-08-2013 02:17 PM

Thanks again Ken & DD. I am not used to Mopar stuff at all. Just a different bird... the starter is weird sounding, the valve train has a different sound (not bad) just different. You guys know a lifter tap or small exhaust leak is like fingernails on a chalkboard to a gear head.... but it does go away. Seems like a good motor.

It has 9: 1 pistons & does not like regular gas!! Pings under load in mid range. Put 92 oct in it & it is gone. With 9: 1 pistons, I wouldn't think the lower octane would matter?? WTH.

outlaw256 05-09-2013 04:22 AM

are you runnin 100% gas? if not you aint gettin the octane thats advertised! thats one thing ive learned in the last few months...from a gas supplier no less!!

roadkill2 05-09-2013 05:40 AM


Originally Posted by Scooterz
Thanks again Ken & DD. I am not used to Mopar stuff at all. Just a different bird... the starter is weird sounding, the valve train has a different sound (not bad) just different. You guys know a lifter tap or small exhaust leak is like fingernails on a chalkboard to a gear head.... but it does go away. Seems like a good motor.

It has 9: 1 pistons & does not like regular gas!! Pings under load in mid range. Put 92 oct in it & it is gone. With 9: 1 pistons, I wouldn't think the lower octane would matter?? WTH.

Sounds like a timing issue here. Is the mechanical advance hanging or perhaps opening up too soon? Might be worth looking at because this isn't (or shouldn't be) a computer operated engine.

Or, the vacuum advance isn't returning soon enough. Could be something as stupid as a small vacuum leak in the hose or diaphram.

TheYellaBrick 05-09-2013 05:52 AM

In our leetle town, we are able to buy non ethanol gas in 87 and 92 from this one small station. ALL my junk runs better and I get better mileage.

roadkill2 05-09-2013 06:25 AM

That's kind of unusual in this day and age, because most of the EPA Specs require a minimum of 10% Ethanol in Gasoline sold Retail, in all 50 states. Then they have 9 "Environmental Impact Cities" where a "Special formula Gasoline" is required, some at certain times during the year, some, year round.

I dunno about Idaho, but in most states that have highway taxes as part or all of the state gasoline tax, and sell both diesel and gasoline for "Off Road Use" and is colored differently than standard pump gas and has a distinct exhaust smell so that authorities can tell whether you're driving on the highway with Taxed Fuel.

The "Off Road Use" includes racing as well as construction equipment, farm use and other equipment that doesn't ever see a highway . . But here in Colorado, I dunno where you'd find "Pure Gasoline" other than Racing Fuel. When I was in the Construction Business, the State was pretty zealous about checking our Trucks and diesel pickups for "Red" Diesel. They want those taxes!

Scooterz 05-09-2013 08:59 AM

It is that way here too RK. You could get a random check on highway VS off road diesel (cops use a dipper to check color). The gas is part menthol. It is very hard to find straight regular gas.... but it is sold & refereed to as "white gas" at one station here by my work. It is more expensive.

I thought about timing too. Timing gear is set 4 degrees advance due to cam. The dist is manual. checked vacuum line... seems to be okay. Have not put a gun on it yet or check full operation of advance... I will do it this weekend.

DD: that 72 Dodge you have... she has some low miles. Pretty impressive she tows yer go-carts & keeps chuggin... good work horse.

Ken- octane is one of those things we ass-U-me should be correct... but kinda like the timing gun... we should question what is really going on.

TheYellaBrick 05-09-2013 02:41 PM

This is just Idaho. Look up your state/city ;

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=ID

roadkill2 05-10-2013 07:12 AM

Good post!

Notice, though, few, and in some states, none of the sources are in Metro areas. In Colorado, all of the outlets are either small (in the boonies) farming communities or adjacent to a lake or other camping attraction, where straight gasoline is better for Generators, 4 wheelers and motorcycles, as well as boats, 'specially the outboards.

Not that it matters, but because of the Politicians, other than racing gasoline, pure gasoline at the pump is becoming just like the ancient Stegosarus . . Extinct!

In yer race car, get used to alcohol, and yer street ride, 20% ethanol . .

Scooterz 05-10-2013 03:17 PM

I see a few "85" oct... whoopee!!

Harbone 05-10-2013 06:23 PM

Scoot your pinging might be carbon build up on the pistons, those old Mopars had a tendency to crud up. Does it have an EGR valve still on it? That will make them ping too when they are bad.
Get something turn burn that carbon off, ATF or SeaFoam nice and slow through the carb will take care of it, just make sure you are in an open area cause it will smoke like crazy!

roadkill2 05-11-2013 09:53 AM


Originally Posted by Harbone
Scoot your pinging might be carbon build up on the pistons, those old Mopars had a tendency to crud up. Does it have an EGR valve still on it? That will make them ping too when they are bad.
Get something turn burn that carbon off, ATF or SeaFoam nice and slow through the carb will take care of it, just make sure you are in an open area cause it will smoke like crazy!

Back in the day when anything that burned gas would get Carbon Build Up if it wasn't "Blown Out" periodically, we used . . WATER . . Bump the idle up to about 750 rpm, and verrrry slowly trickle water down the carb. It'll stumble a little bit but just keep on keepin on for about 5 minutes, from one barrel of the carb to the other . . Make sure the engine is at operating temp before you start . .

Pure Old School . . .

Scooterz 05-13-2013 10:32 AM

Harb/RK no EGR. It is a regular Eldlebrock int/carb w/ elect choke. Checked vacuum line & advance... seems to operate good. I don't mind trying both ideas for carbon. It can be shifted at 1500-2K no problem & lugs like a pig... probably did not get wound out much in its life. Even w/ bigger cam, power curve is low/mid. I bet there is carbon build up... good idea.

TheYellaBrick 05-13-2013 02:25 PM

We want a field report after application of these processes ! :D :D

Just reroute your windshield washer line into the aircleaner snorkle/top and go 'BLOW out the carbon' on your local hiway !

wmeabates 05-13-2013 03:44 PM

Ping.
 
Scoot,If the other suggestions don,t fix You up try it with the advance line off and pluged.If the ping goes away, an adjustable vacuum advance or a homemade limiter should take care of it.Bill.

Scooterz 05-14-2013 08:52 AM

DD: I will report my solutions for sure. Should have more time to work it this weekend. For now, I have been driving the 68 Chevelle to work (sunny). Can I just reiterate how damn fun it is shifting the Muncie??? man I had not driven it in almost a year... what a blast. 327/4speed is good for many shi_t's & giggles... I sounded like a little school-girl going to work today!!! LOL.

Bill: I thought that if you disable the advance; it would ping more b/c the timing would be too retarded when the power/RPM rises? Or do I have that backwards??? The timing is too advanced when under mid power... right?? I also know the timing gear is advanced 4 degrees b/c of bigger cam in it. So you are saying it is getting too much timing too fast under mid power... that makes sense too.

wmeabates 05-14-2013 10:07 AM

Scoot,Part throttle is when the vacuum will advance the timing the most when connected to the vacumm port above the throttle plate.Throttle closed little or no vacuum,part throttle high vacuum,full throttle little or no vacuum.If anyone can explain this a little more understandable give it a shot.Bill.

TheYellaBrick 05-14-2013 03:16 PM

PUT A MOPAR IN IT ! ......WAIT it IS a Mopar ! :shock: :roll: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Scooterz 05-15-2013 10:40 AM

HAA!!! Scooter is adapting to Mopar some now.

Okay Bill tell me if you think I get this right... I just get confused about vacuum sometimes & how it all flows. Basically- if the advance is advancing too fast/too soon, I get the pinging at mid range until the motor catches up w/ the timing advance.... Right? So if I temporarily plug advance & note the diff; that will tell me if the timing advance was exceeding the power curve... hence the pinging.

wmeabates 05-15-2013 03:41 PM

Scoot,Yes You said what I think might be the reason for the ping,much better than I could get it in writing also.Now about the cam being advanced.The dist.is driven by the cam but adjusted to the crank at the damper,so if set to the same degree as the befor the change, that will still be the same.Don't mean it's right just the same.Now advancing the cam does close the intake valve sooner causing a little more cyl pressure at low to mid rpm which could add to Your problem.Cyl.pressure at high rpm will be how well the cylinders are filling,V E.I think it's time for a beer now.Bill.


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