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-   -   Hard Starting - Enderle Injected 351W (gas) (https://www.racingjunk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17524)

Murff 06-10-2007 12:44 PM

Hard Starting - Enderle Injected 351W (gas)
 
I'm getting my 351W back together and should be ready to fire it off later this week or next weekend. All issues that caused it to fail have been resolved and the re-assembly is going well.

Prior to having to rebuild, even when the engine was running well, it was hard to start. Squirt & crank, never fired right up. Once it lit it was fine but even when warm it was hard to start. I would like to avoid this scenario when I get it running again and am looking for advice on how to make it easier to start or at least advice on areas I could look for answers.

80A-0 belt driven pump, 3 way in front of the shut off, loop back, secondary bypass back to inlet side of pump. MSD distributor, 6AL and Blaster coil, Painless harness. 110 main pill, #21 injectors. 10* initial, 24* at the advance, all in below 3000. Static compression is at 11.2:1. Using a CSR mini starter, Optima yellow battery, no alternator.

This is a gas set up, not alcohol (that will come later), VP C12.

Thanks.

Murff

zipper06 06-11-2007 07:40 AM

Things you might want to look at,
If the pump is mounted above the fuel level in the tank and the pump is dry/not primed this is a common problem, assuming the tank is front mounted. I have this problem also on my Malibu, but only the first time i start it, usually by the time i have spun the motor over to get the oil pressue up mine is ready to start,after that it fires right up, until next week.
Another source of problems is if the butterfly shafts are loose or have some play in the injection shaft bores it will suck too much air and make it almost impossible to start without priming the injectors. The only cure here is to bush the shaft bores or cut o'ring grooves in the shaft and install o'ring around the shaft between the butterflys, i've done this before.

Hope this helps.

Zip.

Murff 06-11-2007 12:58 PM

Thanks Zipper06.

Forgot to mention, 8 gal cell in trunk, electric pump feeding 2 gallon resevoir with old Holley float bowl for regulating, -12 from bottom of res to Enderle filter and then to pump. Pump is lower than res but higher than filter by about two inches.

The hat is a bugcatcher, purchased new last year. Has maybe 4 - 5 hours run time on it. I guess it still could be the shaft bores but reading between the lines here it sounds like I should be looking for an air leak somewhere.

Once I get it lit off again and start on the tune I will smoke test and see what there is to see.

Thanks

Murff

topsportsman1 06-11-2007 01:26 PM

Murff
Does this have a barrel valve,If so that sounds like it is either out of adjustment,or the barrel valve is in backwards

I could go on here,about the barrel valve,but I am not going there yet

davis419b 06-11-2007 06:49 PM

I am curious whether you are working the throttle when you are trying to start it. With alcohol you can flood the engine if you crack the throttle too much. You must realize the barrel valve is constanly putting fuel to all 8 nozzels at the same time even if the throttle is closed. So if you crack the throttle you are also opening the barrel valve and putting more fuel to the nozzels. I would think with the air/fuel ratio being more on gas than alcohol the problem could be much worse. I would think once the pump has filled the barrel valve and lines you shouldnt even have to crack the throttle, just hit the starter and it should fire right up at an idle just like a carb. Just my opinion!

zipper06 06-11-2007 09:26 PM


Originally Posted by topsportsman1
Murff
Does this have a barrel valve,If so that sounds like it is either out of adjustment,or the barrel valve is in backwards

I could go on here,about the barrel valve,but I am not going there yet

Hey Tom, not laughing at Merff, but i konw someone who put the barrel valve in upside down[180 off] and it took him 3 weeks to figure it out. Damn ain't racing fun when you don't have $100,000.00 tuners working for you?

Zip.

topsportsman1 06-11-2007 09:34 PM


Originally Posted by zipper06

Originally Posted by topsportsman1
Murff
Does this have a barrel valve,If so that sounds like it is either out of adjustment,or the barrel valve is in backwards

I could go on here,about the barrel valve,but I am not going there yet

Hey Tom, not laughing at Merff, but i konw someone who put the barrel valve in upside down[180 off] and it took him 3 weeks to figure it out. Damn ain't racing fun when you don't have $100,000.00 tuners working for you?

Zip.

Seen the same thing Zip,guys I worked for swore it was in right,I took it apart,sure enough,it was in backwards 180*:P :P :P

But they only call you when every thing is right,but it won't start LOL

Murff 06-11-2007 10:00 PM

In my defense of the barrel valve, it was already set up for my engine combination by Good Vibrations when I bought it.

But to reply to Davis419b's comment...Guilty. This is my first time with injection and I'm obviously still finding my way.

Probably why I had such a hard time setting the choke.

Murff

zipper06 06-11-2007 10:14 PM

Hey Tom, we've been there, but i'm sure it's not as funny to the guys trying to figure it out. Christ i've been racing for over 50 yrs. and i still make mistakes, and catch myself making a mistake that i had 25 yrs. ago and forgot to check. I know all these angles because i've been there, and forgot what happened a long time ago. But i guess that's why we are here to try if possible to solve problems that other racers may have. I'm so glad that this forum exists, just for that purpose.

Zip.

zipper06 06-11-2007 10:26 PM


Originally Posted by Murff
In my defense of the barrel valve, it was already set up for my engine combination by Good Vibrations when I bought it.

But to reply to Davis419b's comment...Guilty. This is my first time with injection and I'm obviously still finding my way.

Probably why I had such a hard time setting the choke.

Murff

Sorry Murff, i just read your response after i posted topsporsmans response.
My first question is do you have a leakdown tester? on a the barrel valve setting it should be set at 30 PSI for innital. Fire the car up and back it down until it stumbles when you rap the motor, then increase it 1/2 turn fatter. This is where i start and it will get you close.

Zip.

bjuice 06-13-2007 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by Murff
Thanks Zipper06.

Forgot to mention, 8 gal cell in trunk, electric pump feeding 2 gallon resevoir with old Holley float bowl for regulating, -12 from bottom of res to Enderle filter and then to pump. Pump is lower than res but higher than filter by about two inches.

The hat is a bugcatcher, purchased new last year. Has maybe 4 - 5 hours run time on it. I guess it still could be the shaft bores but reading between the lines here it sounds like I should be looking for an air leak somewhere.

Once I get it lit off again and start on the tune I will smoke test and see what there is to see.

Thanks

Murff

the resevoir your spreaking of is also called surge tank....

blown375 06-14-2007 04:18 AM

Murff sorry to say but thats a common problem and kind of nature of the beast with mechanical injection but there are some things you can do to help the situation . First don't pump the throttle ,injectors don't have accelerator pumps so pumping the throttle doesn't help as a matter of fact by pumping the throttle you take away vacuum that would help draw fuel thru your nozzles. another thing that you may want to try is a fuel check valve that will keep your pump primed I know that Fowler engines sells one 614 258 2924 and it cured my hard start problems when I ran stack injection.

Murff 06-14-2007 07:02 AM

Thanks to all for the replies and tips. Gives me areas to look at closer and shifts in 'technique' to try. Still on track to start it up on Saturday so will know more then.

Bjuice, I have called it a resevoir and a surge tank. Usually when I call it one name someone calls it by the other. It's a flippin' box with gas in it at the front of the car.

And my comment about setting the choke was meant to elicit a chuckle, nothing more.

<sigh>

Murff


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