Engine Rebuilding
 

I was wondering how many guys rebuild / refresh their own racing engines?
I have rebuilt engines in the past and all has went well. But now I have a 950 HP BBC and was wondering if can do the work myself (except the machining, of course).

Re: Engine Rebuilding
 

My dad and I used to do all ours, sense going big inch high dollar I went to someone else, to much money into it for us to screw it up. for what it cost me it dont cost me much more to have Nyes do mine

I agree with hammer. i hate sendin my motors out and do all mine myslef but mine are nothing like what you guys run. if i had that much money into one i would sent it out to help avoid any little screw ups.

I got screwed back in 1990 by a guy who did a SBC for me. Dumb ass didn't tighten down a rod nut properly, and it came off during a pass. Found the nut, with threads perfect, down in the pan.

Of course, since it was a 'race' motor, he exempted himself from any liability. Thankfully, his old ass is now pushing up daisies.

Never let anyone else touch any motors of mine from then on out.

Re: Engine Rebuilding
 

I was leaning the same way David, for the same reasons. Only trouble is I am up in Canada. Who does a guy take it to? Everyone you talk to in the pits says a different guy is best. I've had a dozen recommendations and no two are the same. Does that mean they are all good? It's a tough decision. I could have someone else do it and it could still blow up on the first pass. I'm leaning toward a guy recommended to me by a friend who races. This guys runs it on the dyno when he is done and takes the time to get it setup right.
What are you guys paying for a refresh (bearings, rings, valve springs, etc)?

Re: Engine Rebuilding
 

The who is what you have to choice for yourself, call the shops and get a round about price to start out with then go look at them if they are easy driving distance, some motor shops I have walked into and turned right around dirty !!!

When I freshen, rings, bearings, lifters, springs, timing chain, valve job, depending on how old the rods are sometimes they get new rod bolts. then a dyno session before it goes home. With all my stuff on the motor and not the engine shops stuff.

I've always built my own engines, but have the machining done outside, but i have all the checking/measuring equipment to check anything the machine shop does. I think if you don't have the checking equipment or the knowledge to check the machine work and the clearances, then you should let someone build the engine who does. The only thing i can't check is the balancing, and crank index.

JMO

Zip.

i will assemble a no HP dailey Driver Motor.....but i ain't gonna try and pack that stuff in on this High Dollar 1400hp Big chief stUFF....ETC....you talking about 500 to 700 assembly fee....and when you got over 20k or more in a Bullet.......do the math...... :roll: .

If you don't think there is A difference in a mechanically inclined weekend warrior putting the motor together compared To the likes of a Gene Fulton...think again......and i do not mean just a Hp thing...i mean the longevity of the motor....protect your investment !!!!


JMO

Well, hate to tell ya, but this weekend warrior has only had 3 motors in 18 years...

454 - Over revvd due to loose converter and floated the valves.

505 - Too lean and too much timing, banged the blower, bent an Oliver rod, and cracked #5 cylinder wall.

568 - 6 passes on it... still perfect.

I guess it comes down to knowing how measure properly, knowing what the clearances should be in the first place, and having the proper tools to do the job correctly.

Anyone can make a mistake, even Fulton, Oddy, Reher Morrison, Sonny Leonard, etc etc etc... I'd sooner have it be my fault if the assembly is incorrect than someone else who I paid to do it and then says "Well, it's a race motor".

Thats half the battle finding a good shop who stands behind the stuff they build ... some do not .... some do

The thing is, most dont unless you pay for it :shock:
Big money grips sent theirs out, poor folks DIY, but then again, poor folks usually dont have 1400HP motors either... JMO>Cp

I always do my own.I can't afford to have someone else do it. I have nobody to blame but me that way, and I never have to worry about "is it what they said it was".. But I have 10 k in mine not 20K ...and no power adders...that makes aBIG difference too, in my opinion.

My opinion on this is...I keep everything as clean as possible and have my torque wrench calibrated every couple of years. I watch very closely on what I do. and when I assemble an engine I am by myself, no one around and not even the radio on, so there are no distractions. So far I've had pretty good luck. I'm like alot of you...can't afford to have someone else do it. And have the pleasure of saying "I" built the motor. JMO

TS1955

ok so let me Get this straight...So you consider yourself in the same league as Gene Fulton, PAR, R/M,Nye's ???....

Cause the only point i was making is that spending $500-$700 more to have One of these four BUILDERS ( Not Assemblers) do your work is a wise investment choice for Many....


OH OneBadgmc..i hate to tell ya...just because you have owned 3 engines in 18 yrs Dont tell ME much...........How many passes did you make and what did they Run (ET)........i Mean Hammer is making (300) 4 second passes in his rail before doing some preventive re-freshes..nothing mandatory at (300) just a precaution.....now that tells me something about his builder.

Well back when I raced on a regular basis in the 90s, ate, slept and dreamed of going fast...

I was at the track every Wed/Sat night with the 454. I have no clue how many passes were on the motor, but I sure know it was a ton. That motor was running 9.60s at 3700+ lbs, pushing a brick down the track. 300 passes sound realistic, then add on street driving, car cruises, etc etc. Probably another couple thousand miles of street driving on top of the 300 passes every year.

The 505 lived from 1997 until 2005. Same conditions.

Do I consider myself in their league. As far as assembly and attention to detail, you bet. As far as experience with head porting, cam selection, and carb selection, I wouldn't make an oil stain on their pants.

Just because someone doesn't do it for a living doesn't make them a weekend hack who doesn't know which end of the torque wrench to grab.

Just because you don't feel comfortable assembling your own motors at a given power level doesn't mean everybody else is too.

Do you think these top tier builders started off that way? They popped out of mommy's vagina and instantly were God's gift to the automotive racing world?

Everyone starts somewhere. Why would you discourage someone from actually learning how to do it themselves? Honestly, it's not that tough.

“Confidence comes not from always being right but from not fearing to be wrong.” - Peter T. McIntyre

I deleted my Original reply .the more i thought about it..i just wanted to bring out a few things to the point.

1st - I gave this Guy my opinion of what i would do. He did ask for some opinions...Didn't he ??..My reply wasn't for You Sir..If My opinion discourages someone then maybe they should not have ask for opinions to begin with......so with this said...I didn't call you a weekend warrior you stepped up and assumed the Role ?? :roll:
for the record i have no clue what you do for a living..you could be a engine builder for all i know...lol


2nd- Also IMO you haven't run Fast Yet OnebadGMC a 9.60 1/4 or your 5.50/5.60 1/8th is not so impressive to me for the type of motor set up you have 3700lbs or Not......Again just My opinion..based on what i see run each weekend.

3rd- My ET #'s speak for itself, could it possibly be maybe i Know something about this ??....not near as most i am sure.. thats obvious... but enough to put a 3,000 lb door car on 10 inch tires in the low 4.70's and fixin to go 60's !!!...but i guess there is always someone 2 seconds slower always willing to give information to you on how to run faster........lmao..


i know, i know...running that Fast on 10inch tires at 3,000lbs is No Big deal Anyone could do it ...LMAO...don't let me Discourage you ...go out and Bust it off this weekend and let us Know how easy it was...i hope you can get it there...seriously !!!...if not i know a Good engine Builder you may want to call

....{you talking about 500 to 700 assembly fee}-----------------that price won't touch any good shop in my area as far as assembly goes--
i build my own engines and have had some high revving small blocks over 450 horse--i have not built a 20,000 engine but if i had the time i would still try to do my own[ i am just funny that way 8) ]
i think if someone wants to learn -you have to learn somewhere and sometime--all these other engine builders started somewhere :? :? --they just did not wake up and pow--i can build :twisted: :twisted: !!!

sorry guys but i have to go back to the old basics-[money don't buy everything -sometimes hot rods are built at HOME]

LIVELY

I am with him. You can call it being stubborn but I am going to attempt to build the engine for the Stang myself. Im trying to get it into the 9 sec 1/4mi bracket.

In my opinion it is almost an apples to oranges comparison when compairing the average weekend bracket racer's engine to one like yours. Obviously all engines need to be "right" to live, but at the power levels you guys make(especially with power adders) the margin for error is much smaller. Every aspect of that engine must be carefully thought out for them to be able to survive. Not exactly the same thing as a 9 or 10 second bracket engine that is bolted together from a Jegs catalog. So to me it depends on your goals. JMO

Well said Tod.

I agree with both actually - resident guru and our mod, they both made some valid points as did you.

On a side note:
With all this talk about 550's vs 470's on skinny tires etc> and even though I'm usually one of the fastest footbrake cars at my track....

Suddenly I feel OH so slow :shock:

Well Dirka I hope you plan to put a Chevy in it then. :lol:

I've been wrestling with that question myself. My 840hp ReherMorrison 522 has just over 300 passes on it now with nothing but oil changes every 30-40 passes and valve checks/adjustments every 20 or so, and will get freshened this winter. Still runs the same as it did when I bought it used 225 passes ago. I've built a number of small & bigblock race engines and have the know-how and tools to do it properly, but I'm seriously considering sending it back to RM for the freshen. I probably wouldn't have run it this long if I'd built it myself without checking the bottom end and replacing lifters & springs which are on borrowed time regardless.
Sooo, if I can swing it, it'll go back to them.
Johnny

All 1/4 mile passes by the way, roughly half at wfo in the mid 8's and half on the stop in SG........

I think bascially it comes down to this ..

Tools .. if you have the right tools (I do not have all them now) so thats another reason I choice to send it to someone else.

Money .. if you have the extra money to have someone do it, I plan for it usually every winter, this year I am not planning to have it done as I raced very little this year (100 passes) Next year will be the real test to see what it can do with 350 or so 1/4 mile passes on it.

I was once told by a old school engine builder, if it has good oil pressure, and its not smoking .. why replace any parts in the bottom end. New lifters and springs and race it !! He claimed he had took near perfect used parts out only to see new parts break (we've all seen it) this is why he does what he does ..


FYI My engine isnt a 20k engine either just runs like one :lol:

Shoot my wife build's mine :!: :!: :shock: :shock:



''JUST MY TWO CENT'S WORTH''

If RM, Nyes, Musi, etc. had shops in Canada, it would be an easy choice for me. I would send it out to one of them to be refreshed. My big problem is I have to trust someone elses word on who is good.
There is one guy who was recommended to me. He builds the engines for Ashley Bart's blown alcohol dragster. I would think he could do a good job of putting my engine together.

Hey Mark how much does she charge you and how much would she charge a friend? :lol: :lol:

She work's cheap, She is short doesn't require a engine stand :!: :!: :shock: :shock:



''JUST MY TWO CENT'S WORTH''

some good point's on both side's. the controling factor,s would be skill and ability, and having access to the proper tool's. as for cost, sometimes a small investment now, can save you a lot more long term, so when in doubt send it out. :wink:

here is A Great Engine Builder in Canada...his name is Murray....he has shops in the USA and Canada....i ran a 622ci in My vette he Built...

call him Up..

http://www.racingjunk.com/category/9...KIT-800HP.html

Same here

Dennis tell me what you know about 10.5 racing ?...you made some statements that leads me to believe you are not too familier with this type racing ?

Not trying to be a smart a$$ just interested to know what you know abiut this type racing.

lol ...Tod i read the section of My post you chose to highlight to make your comments on......you do know this comment was to Onebadgmc don't you ? Please help me understand how a ( claimed 2100hp) 568+ci 1471 Alcohol Blown Injected BBC is your apples to oranges everyday Bracket engine ?..it may run like one but thats beside the point.....Lol :D


daym Blown engine is making 800 more hp than Mine ..(per his claim)..somthing ain't adding up is it ?

http://www.racingjunk.com/category/2...-Alky-GMC.html


i took a little part of His add...stating the truck is 3250lbs without driver...How much does oneBadgmc weigh
450 +lbs.......he did tell us the truck weighed 3700+ lbs ...correct ???????

i smell Bullchit !


Gebhardt's Pro Cars full mild steel tube chassis, with Funny Car Cage, and Pro-Mod four link setup. Tubular A-arms (for better street ride), 60" Wheelie Bars. Weight, 3250 with full fuel load, without driver. Last certed for 7.50 as of Dec '05. Updates completed Winter of 08/09 to pass current 7.50 cert

Re: Engine Rebuilding
 

SEE BRIAN --THE POST STARTED AS A REFRESHING ??? NOT HOW TO BUILD, RUN, AND MAINTAIN A 10.5 CAR
MY POINT AND OTHERS ON HERE ARE THAT EVERYBODY STARTED SOMEWHERE AS FAR AS BUILDING ENGINES/ TRANS/ REARENDS/BODIES/FRAMES ETC.
BY ALL MEANS IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO SPEND THEN LET IT BE OUTSOURCED[THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY!!]
AS FOR THE GRASSROOT RACERS -WE HAVE LEARNED TO DO IT OURSELVES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE
I DO NOT CLAIM TO KNOW IT ALL BUT I AIN'T STUPID OR AFRAID TO LEARN HOW TO DO THINGS NEW
I DO NOT DO THE MACHINE WORK ON MY BUILDS BECAUSE I TRUST THAT TO A SHOP THAT HAS THE RIGHT TOOLS BUT I BUILD MY OWN UNITS/I BUILD MY CAGES BUT HAVE A PRO WELD THEM[I LIKE FOR MY BRAINS TO STAY IN MY HEAD 8) ]

SORRY IF UPSET THE CART :oops: :? 8) :cry: :wink: BUT I HAVE BEEN RAISED AND TAUGHT TO DO IT YOURSELF AND LEARN TO DO IT RIGHT :idea: :idea: AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND ALOOOOOOONG TIME :o :o

LIVELY

Re: Engine Rebuilding
 

I totally get that Lively..and i agree with how the post started out...and if you will read my 1st reply i gave to KOD99 i gave him my Opinion that was ON POINT with his Question....

Then Onebadgmc tried to jump on my case and talk Chit to me like he does to other people on here..hell he even speaks of how glad he is a man is dead..i mean WTF !!! that dog won't hunt with me lively :twisted: ....

Now i done proved some inconsistancy's with some stories he told about his Truck...

You didn't upset the Cart my Friend..our Pal GMC Tore this up !!!


One thing for sure you know with me ..if i say it ! i can prove it !! :D

Yeah I knew you were talking to ONEBADGMC. I picked the wrong post of yours to quote to make my point...sorry for the confusion.My comennt had nothing to do with WJ Birmingham.. I wasn't really commenting on what was said between the two of you.I was commenting more on YOUR car and the level you are at. I probably shouldn't have quoted that part of your post but rather the other post where you mentioned the 4.70 E.T'S.....

I simply meant that to run at the level you are at takes FAR more know how and attention to detail than it does to do what many of us do...Those who buy off the shelf parts and bolt them together in our garage to run weekend bracket races. If I were trying to go that fast or be competitive in a class like you run,then a pro builder would be the way to go as I don't know enough to build an engine like that.I also wasn't disagreeing with using a PRO even for bracket racing. I think if you can afford it it's the smart move.I just like doing mine myself as it's a learning experience and I like the satisfaction of putting it together myself.

Rebuilding
 

I build my own engines as it is cheaper and I have faith in my abilities. If I had a high dollar engine, I would bring it to a professional. I have the tools to measure and torque the engine, so my low buck engines are not a problem. How many of you people that build your own are confident in your tools? I am a calibration technician and my tools are all calibrated. If I measure the journal on a crankshaft, I know that the measurement is accurate. My torque wrench is also calibrated. Having equipment that doesn't give you accurate readings is useless. Even if you know what you are doing, without the correct and accurate tools, you are taking a chance. That is why I would trust a professional, but I would check on his ability to make good measurements. JMO.

Re: Rebuilding
 

Where do you take your tools to be calibrated? I got ta torque wrench that needs to be calibrated and dont know where to take it.

Tools
 

If you have a SnapOn or Mac tool salesman in you area , thay can usually provide the service. You can also check the Yellow Pages in your area under calibration services.