The British want their guns back.
 

governments dont want their people armed. and it isnt for safety reasons it because they cant take away our freedoms and rights if we still have guns and can fight back.

EXCELLENT post.......The last comment should be taken VERY seriously.
You'll notice that the Brit's are WARNING U.S.....that's how much they respect America......

Man that just pisses me off. That man is Innocent!! Nothing more, nothing less... they need to SUCK IT UP & LET HIM GO!!


The 2nd ammendment is for the people to protect themselves ultimately from too large of a govenrment that is out of control so we can take our country back... we are haeded in that direction right now. It is a looming felling I get everytime I see Obama's agneda & our government getting more & more control. GB may give up thier guns, but America??? that is yet to be seen.

:o last week a man and his wife came into my business. we are a christian owned business and very respected in our community. plus we often discuss of belief with our customers without being offensive. however this couple being in there 40' just moved here from England. They left everything they said they had no wrights left, taxes out the back side. the muslums were takeing over. religeon is taught in the schools. but the muslums are protesting about Christianity being taught. sounds close. when freedom of speech is taken then what. they were amazed that americans are doing nothing about it here. and said if our wrights were gone then we would realise how precious freedom is..:arrow:

:shock: here in cal. ammo is getting harder to find!! .. if they limit the sales of ammo the guns will be of no use .buy ammo now!! 8)

talking about 2nd Amendment rights...just screw up one time and see what happens...and when i say screw up. i am not refering to robbing a bank,mudering someone etc....
I am talking about cheatin up on your taxes a little bit (unless your a politician),or getting caught with a couple of Joints on a national parkway ( federal) and your a convicted Felon..forever stripped of your Right to bear Arms,right to vote..in many cases cannot get a decent Job....

I mean Come on.....there is a whole sub-culture of these Good people walking around that has no civil rights but still MADE TO PAY TAXES.

Should Certain Felonies (state or Federal) be considered for 2nd Amendment right restoration among other civil rights without having to hire attorneys and a snow balls chance in (ya know) ?

its a racket and a short cut to taking away the firearms of Good Americans.

The real CRIMINALS are still gonna have the firearms no matter what !

you do the time ,or probation,you should be cleared, it was a ploy to bust as many ppl as possible ,and TAKE THERE FOID CARDS
crooks will always have access to guns, all they have to do is STEAL one, we have to apply for one ? wtf lol
GUNS DONT KILL PPL ,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE
HELL WHATS NEXT NO BUTCHER KNIVES
(NO SLING SHOTS)/ BALL BATS

I READ THERE ARE SOME FELONIES THAT YOU CAN STILL GET,AND HAVE A FOID CARD WITH
OTHER WISE A JUDGE,OR DIRECTOR OF STATE POLICE HAS TO SAY YOU CAN HAVE ONE,

(DO WE KNOW HOW CROOKED THEY ARE???)

Not if its a Federal Charge..only a Federal Presidential Pardon can restore these rights

lately in the news they did a story on a guy that applied for a pardon to get his Gun rights back..

He had farm animals and Cyotes ( spl) was killing the animals or causing property damage...he set out some posion to kill them...and just so happen a Bald Eagle ate the posion and it killed the Eagle...the layed the hammer to him ( federal convicted Felon) all rights stripped !

was this a smart thing to do on his part...NO !...But does it deserve a life sentance ?

I agree with BJUICE.

I'm not at all proud of this, actually I am ashamed, but I'm 34 soon be 35 and when I was 22 I got a DUI and got a second one when I was 25. I am now a felon and can't own a gun of any kind...I would like to add I have been sober over 9 years now ..not so much as a drop of alcohol.I have never tried weed or any other drug not Over the counter...I would also add those are my only two arrests.
I am thankful I never hurt or killed anyone and I am not down playing what I did as "no big deal" However, I do not feel owning a gun would make me a danger to society and I do not think I am on the same level as a thug who robs people.

You can still vote however...I have always heard you can't vote after a felony but actually you can in Indiana as long as you are not incarcerated or on home detention , parole etc.,although I'm still not sure how that is allowed under Federal Law but I have always been allowed to vote. :?

TODD------------YOU MADE A STUPID CHOICE / GOT CAUGHT / PAYED THE PRICE AND HAVE CHANGED YOUR LIFESTYLE------------THAT IS WHAT SUPPOSE TO HAPPEN------SO NOW YOU SHOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO GET A GUN PERMIT AT THE LEAST 8)
IF YOU HAD TRIED SOMETHING STUPID WITH A GUN WHILE YOU WERE DRUNK THEN YOU SHOULD BE PUNISHED AND 'NEVER' HAVE ANOTHER GUN :cry: :cry:
IT MAKES ME MAD THAT SO MANY LAWS CONNECT THINGS TOGETHER THAT DO NOT MAKE ANY SINCE AT ALL :shock: :shock:

ALOT OF THINGS HAPPEN IN PEOPLES PAST THAT SHOULD STAY IN THE PAST
WE LIKE YOU BRO AND JUST HANG IN THERE
LIVELY

thats my point guys ppl change for the better ,and dont get forgiven
a lot of criminal activities are still goin on in the world and we dont even hear about it ,because of who the ppl are that are doing it

a (self defence) battery charge can be the same- a felony!
(a violent crime even- even though it was a self defense issue-)
but if you pay a lawyer (keeping the systems friends in work) you could prolly get it back- sealing your file
(we the ppl for the ppl by the ppl)
gun rights= our right,and amendment , therefore our own govmnt is taking those rights away,and going against the very laws that they work to defend and uphold!
its a 3 ring circus , dont defend your selves- die while calling the police
we can put gay stuff on tv- (teach not to be( have laws against it) and they still get away with it
but dont ask for your rights back -????????
nothing personal against gays i just dont agree with the stuff),and its illegal to boofoo)and against my religion (and as far as i know (anyone that believes in GOD)
(IN GOD WE TRUST)-- GOD IS PROVEN, JUST DONT TELL HIM TO PROVE HIMSELF
seed theory- no(its wrong)--- (but its love)---NO ITS SICK, ITS A CURSE
gay rights ,but no not your rights
a drug (pain killer)- felony-
everything pushing towards prison time- (guilty until provin innocent)
if we dont help ppl be better ppl we will just add to the downward spiral of society

we have to start WITH a (forgiving government)
OR WE WILL KEEP BECOMING A COMMUNIST COUNTRY- A DICTATORSHIP

We also have to be accoutable for our actions. Laws are not hidden until we do them. They're in black and white, on paper for all to see. A society without rules is a society in chaos. There's not any laws that haven't had adverse repercussions to some that may not deserve the full penality of a law. But ignorance of the law shouldn't be an exception. I personally don't believe that a dui without hurting someone should be a felony. But our country was built on these laws. Congress to make laws, Judicial system to interpret them, and Police to enforce them. There is no system that is perfect and I haven't found one better than ours. But there is a way to change it, to bad its not on forums, its getting invovled in the system, voting and educating people starting with your children. If you can't convince them how would you think you could convince anyone else. As long as we stand outside looking in things will change right in front of us without our input or opinion. I ran for NM house of representative and lost by 600 votes. It wasn't even that I wanted to be in politics but I had to do something and so should you. The times of our nation going where we would like it to while we sit in the back seat is over. I have a hard time understanding why someone would feel strong enough to constantly complain but not do the things it might take to make a change. Whether Barrack is worth a sh*t or not his followers organized, planned, worked together, and got him elected. And guess what, a high percentage of these followers aren't educated, but they applied themselves. But as long as the educated continue as couch potatoes, this is what we will have.

Here's a chance to be see and heard !!...

http://secondamendmentmarch.com/

Laws are not hidden until we do them. They're in black and white, on paper for all to see. A society without rules is a society in chaos.


there are so many section a- 32..b... blahblah in our government that most,most ppl do not know what they are
how many of us can recite all the laws?/or pass a bar exam even- not many
(we focus on trying to live right) thank GOD,but in doing so we have been bamboozled,by all the new laws that there are
(resisting arrest)--- (INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY)!!,of course were going to resist if we believe were innocent! (well we just have some questions to ask you), "right" your still taken in and held ect.. lol
a law against its self

laws yea we have to have them, but we have got to our rights,and if were off probation, out of prison, ect... we should be able to be givin all rights back , or its like a communist country , not forgiving

What planet are you from?
If the law reads you don't get your rights back, then thats what should be enforced. Who are you to decide what right and what should be given back. If we don't enforce the laws we have, why have any laws at all. Like I said our country was founded on the legislature making laws, the judicial system interpreting them and the police to enforce them. If we let you decide what should happen after someone is released from prison, probation or whatever, now that would be ridiculous. We have a system that our forefathers built. Its in operation now.
Damn if you don't know whats right and wrong and would need a bar exam to function in our society, maybe you should stay inside. Do you even know what communism is? Communism is where capitalism is overthrown by a working-class revolution that gives ownership and control of wealth and property to the state. Its doesn't have anything to do with a law stating you don't get your rights back after being convicted of a certain crime. Our country is ran by majority rule. For instance, if you wanted everyones house to be painted green and could get enough people to follow or agree with you, you could have a law put into force that would make that happen. Is that communism? No thats our constitution. But our constitution doesn't change because you come up with a great idea that our country needs to be more forgiving. Thank goodness for that.

and for your quote:"(resisting arrest)--- (INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY)!!of course were going to resist if we believe were innocent! "If your innocent why would you resist arrest? Just prove your innocense in a court of law. Geez... let me know when your spaceship come back to get you!!!!!!!

P.S. Todd I not referring to the situation you referred to and hopefully enough people with like mind will get that changed.

laws are not made by the majoraty. laws are made by a few men that all of us have to follow.and no i wont follow a law,any law that goes against what i believe is right.our country has become a land of pussies. we cant defend ourselves unless we have witnesses to say yes it was self defense.man tries to rob me and i dont want to be robbed so i kill him. he goes to hell and i go to jail.unessecary force.a man molest my kids, i kill him. he goes to hell i go to jail. let the law handle it, they say, i say not.seat belts saves lives this i know, but i dont need no damn body to tell me to wear one. law says i cant beat my kid. well let him breakout the windows on your house or dragcar poison your dog or maybe cut your pool liner in half. you want me to talk to him and tell him shame on you johnny or do you want me to kick his ass (then pay you ).dont matter what you or anybody else wants im gonna kick his ass as i tell him shame on you. one of our founding fathers said the least government is the best government.yes we need laws. because theres a bunch of nuts out there now days, but alot of them laws they are passing is starting to interfer with my way of living and i dont like it

remind me never to mess with you. :lol:

Those few men were elected by a majority, us the voter. I don't know what state you live in, but maybe you should move to Texas. There majority has voted for this law. The ablility to defend yourself or your property with whatever force needed. Its called the Castle Doctrine!!
Just check this out............

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...=mostpop_story

Texas is WAAAAAAAY ahead of the rest of the states in defending OUR constitutional rights. They all have BALLS and to stand up to the government and NOT let the government stand up to them. If the rest of the states took this stand, ya think Barry and his 'ilk' would be running rampant as they are now ?!
"Remember the Alamo!" We the People are now the Alamo, we have to make this last stand to slow the attacks until the rest of America wakes up.

most laws a hidden in pork bills or put inside other laws to get them passed and the voters do not even know about them till they are already passed---ILLINOIS IS FULL OF SUCH LAWS!!!!
IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT STAND AGAINST THIS CORRUPTION WE WILL BE TOOK OVER BY SOCIALISM AND THE OBAMA LIKES!!!!!
I WAS TAUGHT BY MY FATHER TO STAND FOR THE TRUTH AND FREEDOM NO MATTER WHAT[1000'S HAVE DIED FOR THIS CAUSE AND I WILL NOT FORGET THEM---IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE FREEDOM YOU DID NOT EARN AND WON'T FIGHT FOR THEM NOW -THEN LEAVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

LIVELY- IN THE MOST CORRUPT STATE IN AMERICA--ILLINOIS

I'm sorry but most laws aren't hid in pork bills. Pork bills are appropriations that yield jobs or other benefits to a specific locale that a Representative, Senator, or other politician get to apply where ever they want. Corruption isn't from hiding laws its from breaking them. The monies in corporate American are so high people are will to risk whatever to get their hands on it. One of our problems with this is we don't have enough laws to prevent it. CEOs can take monies from a company in bonuses or whatever until they break the company and only get a slap on the hand. Makes it to where they think the end justifies the means. Our problem is we've become desensitized to immorallity and uneducated on how our system is built to work.

dparker---you are very stupid to think that laws and regulations are not hid in pork bills----CONTACT SEMA AND CHECK IT OUT--- and stimulus packages---ILLINOIS IS ALWAYS HIDING THINGS ALL THE TIME --YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES AND GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND--MAYBE IN YOUR STATE THERE IS NO CORRUPTION BUT IN MINE IT IS FILFTHY WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIVELY

Your argument just proves the ignorance I'm talking about. Show me a Law Hidden in a Pork Bill thats going to get you thrown in jail. A pork bill that takes away our guns. Do you know the difference between a law and a bill? What we were talking about were laws that were hidden so we would break them and get us put into jail and that these laws were hidden in pork bills. Yes pork bill monies are going to the wrong things. I've never said I agree with pork bills. Pork bill intially were for politicians to put monies where they thought where fit, since they should know best what their district needs. But it never worked as planned, its become a way to abuse power. And a way Government got stronger and bigger. Pork bills are appropriations(funds) that yield jobs or other benefits to a specific locale that a Representative, Senator, or other politician get to apply where ever they want. What the government is scheming to put us in jail. Texas voters have changed their laws by voting in people that will fight for similiar things. You live in Illinois, and with others voted in your corrupt politicians. Damn then your going to blame the government, when ya'll voted them in. If you would get up off your ass or couch and do and/or stand for something other than bad mouthing the government, maybe Illinois would change. Probably not, you'll just argue with me and stay a couch potato, while at the same time making another uneducated vote for another corrupt Governor. Again there's no cure for stupid.

i voted against every corrupt GOVERNOR AND CONGRESSMAN AND SENATOR IN MY STATE FOR THE LAST 35 YEARS--THEY GET IT FROM THE POLITICAL GAMESMANSHIP OF BUYING YOUR JOBS[ PROMISING KICKBACKS]--COME TO ILLINOIS AND CHANGE THIS CORRUPT SYSTEM--IT IS DEEPLY INBEDDED IN CHICAGO--THEN YOUR CAN TELL ME ABOUT IT--I AM VERY VOCAL IN THE POLITICAL SCHEME IN MY AREA AND STAND UP AGAINST THE BRIBERY AND SCHEMING THAT GOES ON

YOUR GOVERNOR HASN'T EXACTLY LOOKED THE BEST LATELY EITHER---DID YOU VOTE HIM IN
YOU CAN TALK POLITICAL CORRECTNESS ALL YOU WANT --IT STILL COMES DOWN TO A CROOK IS A CROOK -NO MATTER WHAT SIDES HE CLAIMS TO BE ON

WHEN THEY COME AND TAKE YOUR KIDS/ WIFE/ GRANDKIDS/ PARENTS- THEN TELL ME THE COURTS WILL SETTLE IT--WHEN YOU HAVE SEEN YOUR KID BEHIND BARS FOR SOMETHING HE DID NOT DO THEN TELL ME THE COURTS WILL HANDLE IT-WHEN YOU SIT IN A COURT ROOM AND WATCH A POLITICIAN WALK OUT WITH PROBATION FOR 6 MONTHS AFTER STEALING 250,000 DOLLARS FROM THE COFFERS AND NOT HAVING TO PAY IT BACK THEN TELL ME THE COURTS WILL HANDLE IT-OTHERWISE -YOU NEED TO SHUT UP AND STOP DEFENDING OUR CORRUPT GOVERNMENT

LIVELY

YOU NEED TO SHUT UP AND STOP DEFENDING OUR CORRUPT GOVERNMENT

Damn I'm sorry I must of stepped on the toes of our internet Super Hero. I guess if I don't agree with lively I'd better shut up. For the Hell of it lets just say Lively's got all the answers. Our next move would be to tell our government leaders they can solve all our problems of RJ discussion forum. Lively's got the answers. All politicians are corrupt, lets do away with government and everyone will rule themselves. Damn we've just solved the world's problems. Thanks Lively your the man. And just think about all the wars fought to preserve this way of life and all we would have had to do is ask Lively. Complain about how screwed up our government is and now I don't have to worry about the government coming to, what did you say: "THEY COME AND TAKE YOUR KIDS/ WIFE/ GRANDKIDS/ PARENTS-"
Not
Your way, since we have some corrupt politicians then our government is corrupt. So therefore since there are scammers on RJ we are all scammers.
What I'd like to know my little internet Super hero, have you done anything to be seen or heard. Sent any money to http://secondamendmentmarch.com/ ? I bet not. Its a good thing our Forefathers didn't have forums. Hect they would have been been bad mouthing England on a forum instead of organizing, planning and defeating them. To bad its not mandatory for us to have to run for office or spend time at our state round house. To get some comprehension of how hard it is to get things accomplished when the majority of the voters know nothing about whats going on in government and those that do will do nothing to have their voices heard. I can just imagine the Minute Men sitting on their couches watching ESPN and changing the world.
Wake up and Smell the coffee.........we're part of the problem!!!!!!!!!!!

dparker, i cant type a long one now but if you want to argue politics im your huckleberry pm me your # or ill pm you mine no mtter to me. im no couch tater. im very well educated. so lets talk. id like to see if your as smart as you think you are.

Dang I feel like I've been called out by Wyat Earp. Do I bring my six gun or is it bare knuckle. PMs on its way. Please be gentle.
Tom Sawyer

The problem is they most likely won't be able to take all the guns but the constitution doesn't say anything about right to bare ammo!
The other problem and biggest problem is that most americans have become so complacent that they won't even see this coming! WAKE UP EVERYBODY !!!!!! When they take our rights away thats it. Don't think that they will come back. They WON'T!!!!!!!!

I AGREE 8) 8)
LIVELY

well sorry to hear you never dealt with dick head cops,
hide ,and dont ever think for your self ,or stand up for anything out of the ordinary
keep kissn butt

(enforced. Who are you to decide what right and what should be given If the law reads you don't get your rights back, then thats what should be back)
cant wait til you get that dealt to you

our laws are f##ed up.
hey someone breaks in your home, gets hurt then sues you lol,
1 example of humor bad humor but its true

majority rules bull $hit,just what you see on tv ,is what you think majority is then keep on thinking like that :roll:

got to old for bareknuckles but six gun is fine dont cheat now and bring a automatic into the game lol

Dayuum parker, I can't for the life of me figure out WHY, you lost that election!! Your lack of tact, is only exceeded by your arrogance. How many people actually voted for you that weren't family? I wouldn't call you a politician, but you do have politician like ways!JMO Come down off your pedestal once and a while, and mingle with us ordinary folks :!:

Well suicidebomb your probably 100% right. One of my many weaknesses is tact. I have a hard time getting my point across without talking down on subjects that I feel so strong about. All I can say is I'm sorry if I offended anyone and I'll try to do better at discussing subjects that I feel that strongly about.
Not trying to make excuses, but I have walked door to door visiting with thousands of people sitting in their homes listening to their problems, then going and spending countless hours at our states round house lobbying for new roads, drinkable water, insurance, gun rights ect.
But I went back and looked thru my post and I can see what your saying is accurate. All I can say is I'll try to slow my roll alittle. Thanks for being honest and I humblely accept your offer. How the weather in Missouri?

dparker, just the fact that you didn't get all bent out of shape even more after being 'chided' says a LOT about you. You'd be more than welcome in my home as a friend. I applaud your involvement in your local and state issues. More of us need to do more than just watch the news. We need to stay informed and teach our children to stay informed. THEY are who will be paying for all that is going on NOW....

99% of usn's on this board are VERY passionate about OUR America and are SICK to see what is happening to her. As well as sick of seeing what is happening all over the globe in free thinking countries where the ugly head of socialism is rearing up.

Even though it seems we are running up against solid concrete walls where ever we go, we CANNOT give up. That is precisely what they want. SUBMISSION. The old saying 'United we stand, divided we fall' is true more now than ever, 'they' want us divided as we are easier to control that way.
We the People are the new Alamo....

Well poncholvr I'm sorry we see our country so differently. I just see our country as us and our government being of the people also. I've spent alot of hours in session with many men and women working very hard to make good decisions concerning our welfare. I just have to say eventhough we have corrupt politicians that make the headlines there are thousands of others that are working hard to research and make good decisions for us. One of there biggest complaints I've heard from these elected men and women is while they have to spend many hours researching data and information on bills. They have little or no input from their constituents. I have walked by offices in our state house at 2:00am and seen our so called ego driven politicians researching bills that will be on the next days docket. Most of the elected men and women in our state house has a phone number to their office while in session and want people to call them, but very seldom get any.

Also I have had dealings with the police, my youngest son went off the deepend after he lost his brother. I spent 5 years getting him out of jail, police harrassing him, then me and the rest of my family for not helping them put him in prison. My son also hated me for years for flushing hundreds and/or thousands of dollars worth of drugs that I would find in his room. He was dealing, using, and running in a gang. Thank god for dragracing!!
As a kid he went to the track with me everytime without missing. But after he got in his new life style that was gone. In December of 2006 he was arrested and put in jail. While he was in jail I offered to buy him a badass racecar if he would get a job, pass a drug test and straighten up his life. A week before Xmas he called me from jail and told to get the car that when he got out everything would be different. 30 days after he got out he took a drugtest and got his first real job at 18 years of age. A month later I bought him a RED Mike Boz car having to sell one of my street cars to finance it a 1970 Mach 1 with 15" of rubber under it. I tested him once a month for a year never positive. 3 months after he changed his life his car was burnt to the ground in our driveway. We keep the car at our raceshop as a reminder of where he's come from. He's living on his own, engaged to a pre-law girl, helping to put her through school, no drugs. Two years ago in just his second year he placed 2nd in the points here and last year he won the points championship. He gave a speech last saturday at our awards banquet and thanked everyone for their support. Wasn't a dry eye in the house.

Well poncholvr sorry to be so long, just wanted you to know alittle about where I'm coming from and I'm sorry I got personal with the discussion on our nations government. We all have a right to an opinion even if ours are totally different.
take care and God Bless

dparker, your last two posts have convinced me to look at you with a new set of eyes. My opinion of you has taken a 180* turn. At least you get your ass in the grass, and try to make changes happen in public office. I do applaud you for that :!: Driving said it best( see Driving Miss DD above), You'd be welomed in my house, as if we were best friends, whether we agree on everything or not. I'm sorry I got hard on you, if you ever get up this way stop in and visit with us, I'll treat you to some good ole KC barbeque. Try to arrive before dark, shooting starts around here, about a half hour after sundown. BTW weather here was beautiiiful yesterday, 75 and not a cloud in the sky, today upper 30s and snowing.

Watch out. I have family in St. Louis and was born in Lawrenceville, Ill. We usually come through Joplin then to St. Louis. If its not to far out of the way I'll try to stop by this year.

Just give me a couple hours notice, so I can set the the table :!:

Good posts everyone. I am glad to see everyone is civil & as understanding as they can be. There are some real emotions around politics & religion/God. Since everyone is entitled to thier opinions, I will give my short version....

Anyone seen the "Truth Project"?? It clearly dinfines how our Goverment & politicians have literally re-wrote history little by little, piece by piece. It is very simple... & don't take my word for it, check it out in History! The Consititution came from a belief in morale & God. Look up a 1892 Webster dictionary... many definitions are Chistian based. Now FF to current day... nothing about God in there except a few things. Schools like Yale, Columbia, Princeton etc... all were created by a Christain ciriculum. What about our fore fathers such as Adams, Washington & Webster... all believed in upholding Chistian morale... as a key to freedom & democracy. Poncholvr: you may be involved with the Government, but this Government we have now has fallen long ago & has MANY flaws.. despite your opinion. We now have something like 30,000 laws around JUST ENFORCING THE CONSTITUTION!! We are re-writing history that our fore fathers warned us about long ago. Instead of funding prisions to get criminals & in, we are letting them out. Instead of funding our school system (which is brain washing our kid's) we are now putting together a FAT PORK spending bill to cover things like "ACORN"... is that a GOOD Government??? excuse me, what planet are you from???? LOL!! Anyways, Columbis did not find America to throw away it's values... we are a country that wants a leader so we can live w/o consequence... our Goverment is helping that along day by day, bill by bill, leader by leader. I am sorry, but it is corrupt & self serving. Not to say all government people are bad... not my intention. What I am saying is: don't try to justify a flawed & corrupt government to me... we scewd that up long ago!! We are paying the price & IT WILL GET WORSE.

Last, I love all you guys. I do not mean to offend everyone... I think our country is in trouble... our government is making it worse & so are the leaders. It is TOTALLY evident in the history... don't believe me, check it out yourself (you will have to look hard, we are re-writing it anyways). Scooter