to all track owners
 

:idea: its time for all you guys to come up with heas up classes no breakout for the classes just like the pros. all engine no adders. weight to c.i. simple 2800 to 3000. lbs 340 to 600 ci all tube chass and no tube chassis. thats the basic outline. what do you think. car owners and track owners :?: :?: :idea:

I agree with you, we need classes like this, I like heads-up racing don't get to many chances a year to get the other car out to do heads-up racing

Re: to all track owners
 

how would you police something like that? what local track would tear motor down to check cubic in ? sounds good but not to realistic

Re: to all track owners
 

It's realistic, they could P&G the motors for displacement, like the dirt track guys do. I would like to see some lower minimum weights though. How about 1800-3800, let some dragster, and altered guys in on the fun.

I AGREE----LET US GET BACK TO THE BASIC /ALL OUT RACING-I HATE SEEING TIRE SMOKE OFF THE 'FRONT TIRES' AT THE FAR END :lol: :lol: :lol:
LIVELY

In theory it sounds good but i donot believe any track owner would go to the expense of buying the P&G equipment, or want to have all the headaches associated with the protest and whinning when they can just run pro or s/pro brackets. It would also create a doz. different classes much like the old days of the gasser classes in NHRA.
Around here we have the 6.00 and 7.00 classs no breaout and a pro tree and Memphis had the 6.50 class same deal. The last show in memphis they had 3 cars in the class. The 6.00 class pays 1000.00 and the 7.00 pays 750.00. But not enough cars in either class. The same nites they run s/pro and it will have 60 to 90 cars, for the track owner that's really where the money is. s/pro also pays guarenteed $1250.00.

JMO

Zip.

I like heads up racing and did it back in the day, so to speak. But they came up with bracket racing so everybody could have a chance to win. I really don't see a track going back to that kind of racing. Don't get me wrong I think drag racers are wanting to do something different. I stopped running Pro and Super pro because I got bored with it. Plus the delay boxes. Well that's another story for sure. I say go to a pro tree for every class and come up with a way to run heads up.
It'll be tough to keep it fair though.

Re: to all track owners
 

8) you don't need a tear down, just a cc tube. It not hard to tech a class when the number of rules are limited. nhra safety rules would applied. first you will need 3 catigories ( 3 catigories to cover all the existing cars) catigory # 1 rail and roadsters , catigory # 2 tube chassis car, catigory #3 modified stock chassis ( factory frame rails,firewalls ,floors )

Re: to all track owners
 

:!: you would be in catigory #1 dragsters and roadsters. :idea:

We had a heads up show a few years ago. Street tire heads up. They had 5 fast cars show up and a couple of guys in 14-15 sec cars buy in at the last minute to get the qualifying money.

Our track does a Tues. night street car t&t. A couple of years ago they started having a shootout. The fastest 16 cars would get a sticker and the top 2 would run off for a trophy. A local forum was had a ton of posts about "Yeah the way racing should be. Heads up no stupid bracket stuff."
All these guys with their mustangs, camaros, and imports started bragging about the decals and trophies they were going to get. I didn't take long for a 9 sec vega to show up and the whining and crying began. "That's not fair!" "they should have weight rules" They should have back seats" Blah blah blah. I've seen nights you have to run 10's just to get a decal. Last I heard the track record for that event was like 8.70 .
Heads up racing is just a money pit. The class will always get faster. They people with money and the want to make the changes will always be faster. Sooner or later the "slower" guys will get tired of being beat and quit coming.

If you think a class like that will work, approach a local track owner and suggest it to him. See if he would add it to a night. A lot of tracks would give it a try. You might try to find someone to sponsor the event. Like a local speed shop.

If you're really brave, Look into renting a facility one weekend or day. We did a big motorcycle event at a track a few years ago. They agreed to have it if we put it together and promoted it.

It might work in your area but it has never worked here.

These results reflect the record holders, qualifiers, and final round contestants at each of the
Street Car Shootout Series events held each Tuesday at Gateway International Raceway in Madison, Illinois.

All vehicles compete utilizing Department of Transportation (D.O.T.) approved tires. All other modifications are permitted. Tuesday SCSS Track Records can be set during official qualifying or championship rounds. The four quickest qualifiers meet in no-handicap eliminations with the championship final round held at 9:45 PM. Each of the Top 16 qualifiers receives a "Fastest Street Car Qualifier" decal. The two quickest Sport Tuner drivers, (open to all passenger cars except Rear-Wheel-Drive vehicles with engines of eight cylinders or more), also meet in a no-handicap championship round for trophies presented by St. Louis Street Racers.com and the two quickest Super Truck drivers, (open to all trucks and utility vehicles), meet in a no-handicap championship round for trophies presented by Gateway Raceway.com. All finalists in all categories also receive free digital images from the event courtesy of Bret Kepner Photos.com and one free entry to a future SCSS event.


GATEWAY INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY, MADISON, ILLINOIS

2008 STREET CAR SHOOTOUT SERIES TRACK RECORDS

Class Name Hometown ST Vehicle Engine ET MPH Date
RWD Mark Woodruff, Arnold, MO 69 Nova 706 Chevy 8.255 07/01/2008
RWD Mark Woodruff, Arnold, MO 69 Nova 706 Chevy 178.71 07/01/2008

TRK Kevin Autenrieth, Bethalto, IL 91 S-10 434 Chevy 9.065 07/01/2008
TRK Larry Richards, Hillsboro, MO 52 3100 427 Chevy 149.07 9/4/2007

4CYL Jon Huber, St. Louis, MO 79 Mustang 178 Ford 9.147 4/15/2008
4CYL Jon Huber, St. Louis, MO 79 Mustang 178 Ford 152.16 10/16/2007

DSL Chris Calkins, Union, MO 70 C-10 403 Chevy 9.875 9/25/2007
DSL Chris Calkins, Union, MO 70 C-10 403 Chevy 139.41 9/25/2007

RTY Eric Cheatham, Belleville, IL 93 RX-7 79 Mazda 10.048 9/26/2006
RTY Eric Cheatham, Belleville, IL 93 RX-7 79 Mazda 137.95 9/26/2006

AWD Adnan Omerovic, St. Louis, MO 95 Talon 122 Eagle 10.234 9/11/2007
AWD Adnan Omerovic, St. Louis, MO 95 Talon 122 Eagle 141.50 7/22/2008

6CYL David Day, Bunker Hill, IL 87 Regal 249 Buick 10.690 8/26/2008
6CYL Troy Doolady, Columbia, MO 87 Regal 231 Buick 131.10 8/19/2008

FWD Adam Corbitt, St. Charles, MO 85 Golf 123 Volks 10.989 05/06/2008
FWD Adam Corbitt, St. Charles, MO 85 Golf 123 Volks 134.87 05/06/2008




SEPTEMBER 16th, 2008 STREET CAR SHOOTOUT SERIES QUALIFIERS
Pos Name Hometown ST Vehicle Engine ET MPH Date

EVENT 20 09/16/2008

1 Tim Mallicoat Collinsville IL 68 Camaro 565 Chevy 8.573 158.22
2 Tim Roberts St. Charles MO 71 Cutlass 540 Chevy 8.859 149.55
3 Travis Smalley O'Fallon MO 03 Mustang 281 Ford 9.849 136.70
4 Tim Kirkpatrick Troy MO 88 Mustang 393 Ford 9.874 136.46
5 Mike McCombs Jacksonville IL 87 Mustang 418 Ford 10.038 137.72
6 Charles Bewen Wildwood MO 67 Firebird 383 Pont 10.099 135.16
7 Hal Marshall Collinsville IL 86 S-10 383 Chevy 10.133 130.75
8 Jeremy Heizer Crystal City MO 91 Firebird 402 Pont 10.258 132.46
9 Curtis Paulfrey Brighton IL 68 Camaro 502 Chevy 10.331 128.95
10 Raymond Arthur Edwardsville IL 93 S-10 355 Chevy 10.677 125.76
11 Chad Barton Hillsboro MO 01 Corvette 346 Chevy 10.690 130.04
12 Scott Boning Union MO 93 Mustang 347 Ford 10.767 126.21
13 Mike Mester Valley Park MO 00 Firebird 402 Pont 10.894 124.55
14 Nathan Grant Edwardsville IL 02 Camaro 346 Chevy 10.993 125.46
15 Andrew Connors Festus MO 00 Camaro 346 Chevy 11.133 122.96
16 Andy Park Sparta IL 69 Chevelle 462 Chevy 11.147 119.72


Just wondering robsbird how fast are you?

:arrow: all sports have rules or guidelines, heads up raceing will also have rules to keep competition competetive. you would never get tired of this.

Re: to all track owners
 

No, I was planning on #3, modified stock chassis. Ford pickup with a frame hitch.

my present car is a 68 road runner 542 ci 6.0 car 3200 w/o driver now if you and I are in the same class and you are faster I just have to speed up. slo mo this could be something like the outlaw cars only better. any car with some light modification could compete in these classes. It would just all be heads up classes. If you read about the 3 catigories. You would have classes in each catigory. each class would run heads up. if you & I were in the same catigory and you won your class and I won mine. we race! the only handicap is at the start. ever what the quickest e.t. in the event for your class is what you run off of. same with my class.lets use the 1/8 the quickest e.t. for your class was 4.72 and mmine was 5.89 I get the handicap but no breakout for eather class. you happen to win your catigory. You would then race the winners of the other 2 catigories useing your class event e.t.. now some say well thats bracket raceing. no its not

Re: to all track owners
 

[quote="robsbird 8) you don't need a tear down, just a cc tube. It not hard to tech a class when the number of rules are limited. nhra safety rules would applied. first you will need 3 catigories ( 3 catigories to cover all the existing cars) catigory # 1 rail and roadsters , catigory # 2 tube chassis car, catigory #3 modified stock chassis ( factory frame rails,firewalls ,floors )[/quote]

If you go by NHRA Super Gas rules, Roadsters would be category #2.
Since they are left hand steer. Altereds like mine would be category #1 since they are center sitting.

Re: to all track owners
 

[quote=slowmotion] :?: well you could have the roadsters and altereds in the same classes or :idea: in the catigory 2 .you can always have brackets for those did not want this. A weight to ci ratio for the class. my car would be in catigory #3 my wt to ci would determin my class. lets say 5.5 lbs x 542ci = 2981 w/o driver ( incentive to loose a few lbs) there could be a minimun wt in the catigory #3 like 2700 lbs. at 5.5 = about 490 ci a 600 ci at 5.5 =3300

Re: to all track owners
 

[quote=robsbird]If you're making the rules, you can do whatever you want. But I think NHRA's reasoning is that an altered is just a funny looking dragster. A roadster is a tube chassis race car that had the roof cut off. I've seen classes that don't allow open-cockpit cars no matter what configuration.

BTW you're way our of my league with this kind of racing anyway. With the wrong converter in the car I ran 6.27 @107 in the 1/8.
Had the converter tightened up 1000 rpm. we'll see what it runs this spring.

Re: to all track owners
 

[quote=slowmotion] :o :( I would go by the nhra thinking just modify some btw what does you car weigh. plus there are lots of cars in my catigory that are faster.I think my car is a underachiever.

Never had a chance to weigh it. We're guessing 1800. It's a very mild 468. 8.5:1 hydrualic cam. 450hp 532ft/lb
4.56 gears we need to change them to about 3.50 to make a 1/4 mile pass.

Are you aware that a P&G tube cost $950.00?
Other problems exist, such as a lot of todays racers cannot even change a sparkplug, it's not like the old days you build them you race them, many of us still do, but you see more and more racers having the engines built by a race shop and don't have a clue what they have to do for the tech team to check legality, IE CC etc. and if they counldn't put it back together for the next round, then you know some dummy would pull out a gun.

JMO

Zip.

HOLY SCHITT Zip !!
What kinda neighborhood do you race in ?! :shock: :shock:
Out West we are ALL hands on !

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLY I CAN'T CHANGE A SPARK PLUG -BUT-I CAN HAVE A 9 SECOND CAR -GOOOOOOOOOOLLY :oops: :oops: :oops:

zip I know you don,t think we were smarter in the old days. this is easy. look at the success of the outlaw cars. this is all engine, weight limit, lbs to ci. modify what you have if neccessary. example catigory #3 this catigory is factory floors, firewall (stock location and not replaced with aluminun) factory front frame rails & aprons,basic nhra super stock rules with some exceptions. backhalf allowed no aluminun trunk floor but, metal ok. fiberglass fenders, doors, bumpers, trunk..to lighten the car if neccessary. this catigory would fit a lot of cars with little to no mods. every class is heads up. the only handicap would be between class winners and then catigory winners. the handicap would be a the tree no breakout.

My apologies to denn468, shoulda thought that through a little more. Zip you had me on the first sentence of your first post, I think "whineing" was the thunderbolt.
Ok, how about this, Heads up, classes based solely upon the cost of the car, start at 5gs, going up in 5000 dollar increments. This would seperate the mechanics, from the deep pockets. Same safety rules, if the cost of a car falls between classes, you race in the next higher class. Exclude the cost of oil, gasolene, methanol, or ethanol. Nitro, Nitrous, or any power adder included in cost of the car. We'll still have whiners, and cheaters, but you're never going to eliminate them anyway, and they're so entertaining!!!Oh, LABOR, labor is free, as long as you turn the wrenches, if you pay someone else, it goes on the cost of the car. Any ideas? Please feel free to add them, Please, don't tell me I'm a Dumb Schitt, I race automobiles for fun, I've jumped out of perfectly good airplanes, while they're flying, I've ridden motorcycles, on the street, the fact that I'm a Dumb Schitt is a foregone conclusion.

Noooooot! I believe John Force is from ......Out west. I don't believe he's very "hands on".

IT HAPPENS.

I guess I could build my own stuff if I wanted. I'm no mechanic by any means but I can read a book and figure things out. A lot of guys who like to drive race cars have no intrest in working on them. There are also alot of guys that love tinkering on them and trying different things but would NEVER think of making an actual pass in one.

Most of the stuff I see grenade all over the track is home built engines. You see a lot fewer oil downs out of professional speed shops and Crate engines. That's why I ordered a crate engine for mine. I couldn't find a speed shop to build the same engine for what they charged me.

And yes I can change a spark plug :D

You could do like IROC and everybody run the same configuration.
Or like ASA a everybody just has to use sealed crate engines. you can put it in whatever body you want.

Or like some of the stock car guys and have "claimer engines"

Just some ideas.

but-why--because alot of guys do not want to learn anything about why the car really runs and performs like it does/or they do not want to get their hands greasy[ :roll: :roll: ]
that is what is happening to the real old fashioned drag racer[sounds like the ricers are teaching people how to biuld]-it is called MONEY-
i am not griping at you guys about your cars but i hope atleast"" you"" do turn some wrenches on your own cars?!?!
LIVELY

That'll notch up the excitement level.

:?: I think if you want to run a fairmont against a chevellr or a camaro against a dart. tube cars against tube cars - rails and altered against rails and altereds all heads up classes. build your motor, or buy one ,or use the one you have. you would have great raceing. some guys would be blowed away, but the competetors would go to the garage and come back and bust butt.

And this is why bracket racing was so successful........Simplicity, and everyone is equal!!! Mega-Bucks does not guarantee a winner....i started racing in the '60s, and got my butt kicked by 2-3 seconds every time I raced. i was just a high school kid racing a 55 chev in I/SA.....If bracket racing did not appear, I would have had distant memories of a lousy sport. As it is, I have done this my whole adult life, It feels great!! :lol:

:roll: Im not saying to get rid of bracket racing I think it should always be here. I would like to compete in a class 3000 or so lbs 550 ci 4 link heads up no breakout.( with rules to keep everybody competetive )

Re: to all track owners
 

[quote=slowmotion] :idea: slomo you could head up the # 1 catigory looked like you already have 2 cars for that and did i see a tube car there.

:arrow: savoy bracket racing needs to stay just for all the reasons you said. but I was one of those persons who kicked butt by 2 or 3 seconds. I raced ss/c and held the record a couple of times and could run under the record slightly. we did not have lots of money but we spent every dime on our car and every second we had on the car and lover every second of it. im not doing this to make money. If I do win that will just make it that much sweeter.

:arrow: hey quater mile a pro tree (yes) if this could get started it would be successful. Im going to start a new post (heads up raceing)

claimer engines in drag racing? Yeah, that will work.

I know it wouldn't work. I was saying how the stock car guys try to even it up.

No way I would ever consider running a heads up class with the dragsters at our track. We've got guys capable of high 6's and alot of low 7 sec cars.

It would be just like it is now in the 10.5 classes...rules are open to interpretation and after awhile it would be ridiculous just like the 10.5 classes are. Where I race they run a Heads up class only a few times a year and it is on a 6.50 index no box. well pretty much every one of the cars that run that class are capable of much faster than 6.50

:idea: well they race a ss/ah class its all hemis all heads up there is one guy who is usually the fastest, but he not always the winner. the 6.50 class has a breakout. what Im talking about doesn,t have a breakout. lets say that we on this sight try to make some guidlines to go by (rules). I will head up the catigory #3. Im going to make a new post subject catigory#3. some one on here with a rail head up catigory #1 someone with a tube cad head up catigory #2. make your post. no jumping up and down allowed. let see what we come up with. wright down your ideas before you post, keep everyone in mind that might want to compete.