Switching from toilet to carburetor
 

I just picked up a car that has a toilet and would like to know if I can switch to an alcohol carb using the current system as I know absolutly nothing about tuning a toilet? The current system has a rear mounted fuel cell with electric pumps to a front mounted surge tank with a mechanical pump. Could I stilll use the surge tank with a carb? Any info would be appreciated! Thanks Mike

What are you going to do with the toilet?

Plan on losing atleast .10 more like .15 if the toilet is right and the carb is close.

I've seen people use it with the surge tank yes also seenwithout.

toilet
 

I had a local engine biulder that tunes a bad a$$ blown alky altered out to the house show me some of the ins and outs of tuning, at least how to get it to run until we can get it to the track and then tune it! He only charged me for his time so I guess I will give it a try beginning next season as this was the last weekend for our local track. Thanks for the info!

I KNOW WHAT I DO WITH A TOILET!!!! :lol: :cry: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ford guy's, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

toilets are pretty easy to tune.
yiu beed a exhaust gas temp guage some pills and yer done.

George one of our site admins put it best..when he said something close to this " the CARB doesn't care or know where the fuel comes from as long as the bowls are full"..very simple and realistic theory IMO..i just put that in here for the people who say you cannot run alcohol from an electric pump...lol...so the answer is positive yes to your question get a good alcohol carb.

i will put out a quick plug for APD right quick..i purchased one of their custom built 1150's and very pleased..

what type of electric pump do you have feeding the surge tank ?

thanks and good luck
Brian

Brian for right now I have pulled the toilet and put a gas carb on so I can work on other things. The electric pump is a Holley blue pump that ran to the regulator from there it ran to the surge tank then from the surge tank to a Ron's mechanical pump from there to the toilet. Right now I am running to the regulator and from there to the carb on gas. What will I have to do to run an Apd alcohol carb? Thanks Mike

Bolt the APD's on swap plugs and timing and your set !! :lol:

hammertime are you saying I run it just like the gas set up or should I use mechanical pump and surge tank? Thanks Mike

I've seen several people use it just like you are, do I think its the best pump to use NO but have seen it work. If you were to upgrade the electric pump you'd be fine.

if your gonna keep it on gas..get rid of the surge tank and plumb it straight from the tank to the carb,regulator 1st...how much motor you got ?.....the holley blue is a good reliable pump but i would not run it on anything much over 600hp..i don't care what any advertisment says about it being rated for more hp..

if you switch to alcohol...then you need a little bigger pump from fuel cell feeding the surge tank....i do not know why the person had a holley blue feeding alcohol to a surge tank...the holley blue is not even alcohol compatible..and its not NEAR big enough to supply the surge tank with alcohol...

make sure you got a #10 line from rear cell to surge tank....place the alcohol carb on and run yourself a cooler plug with a .030 to .032 gap..
i left my timing where it was (37 degrees) and it was fine..but try it and see where your motor likes it..

tell us a little about your motor ?

Brian

Brian I think you'll find with that intake and alky carb it'll end up liking 33-35 degrees. My 468 picked up a bunch from 38 to 33 once I got it sorted out.

Brian here is all the info I have on the motor, 502, 814 HP on dyno, solid roller lunati cam, Lunati rods and pistons, Roslen 400 turbo, 6000 stall, 9"w/488s, Fiberglass third generation Camaro body weighs 2471 lbs with me in the car! I bought this car complete so anything said we will just have to wait and see, right now I am in the process of putting in an all new MSD ignition system. When I get back to the fuel system I will double check that pump but I have to pull the rear bumper section to get to it! This is my winter project. I also saw on Pro Systems web site an alcohol carb with a regulator where you run a vacuum back to the regulator any thoughts on that! Thanks Mike

sell the 400 and Put in a Powerglide.

814 hp you gonna need more pump than a holley blue for sure...there are many to choose from..i am fond of 2 pumps in this order #1- MAGNAFUEL PROSTAR 500...I buy the pump only and go with a systems 1 12 inch inline billet filter for space ( order it with the #12 ends)...Be sure when you pick a filter it is rated to handle the flow of the pump you buy..many people make the mistake up beefing up their pumps and leaving a lower flow filter...( BAD MOVE).
#2- Aeromotive...i have heard some say the magnafuel 500 is over kill but i WOULD ASSUME a person would want over kill in this area if anywhere..come up short and you got yoruself a burn't motor....Plus you have room to grow with this type pump will allow in future for :..Bigger motor,will run and support alcohol or gas,you can run the motor and nos off the pump..it puts out enough to handle both..will also feed that surge tank no problems

so yes its a little pricy but the way i look at it your gonna spend a minimum of $250.00 for a decent pump.( not top of line) ..why not go ahead and spend $150.00 more and get a awesome ( top of line) pump..that has room to grow and very versitile...

as far as the vaccum line..yes some people do this and also make their own bleed valves in the regulator's..specially the NOS regulators..they do not want any fuel creep what-so-ever on the Nos..

if you run a good up-to date carb ..like the APD or Ruppert..etc...that has the external linkage with linked secondaries..you will not have to bother with the vaccum line..i do not run one on mine......if you run the surge tank and thats fine..the surge tank has a fuel bowl on the side of it..so you will be holding steay levels at the surge tank...the manual pump works off the demand of the crank...so i think you will have a cool little alcohol set up..with a healthy pump in the rear pushing the alcohol to the surge tank..the manual pumps are either working or their not...so you will have no worries here..

if i had my druthers on alcohol..it would be a front mounted cell with a mechancial pump...just cuts down on a lot of wasted motion ( so to speak)..but a surge is great for cars with little space..i ran one 6 years ago.


good luck- Brian

(f i had my druthers on alcohol..it would be a front mounted cell with a mechancial pump...) Brian...... I am so happy to finally hear you say that! You have been making it look like an electric pump was the way to go on alcohol with a carb. Don

Nice catch Mike,I was wondering when some of these guys that are saying you"need" a mechanical pump to run an alcohol carburator.
That regulator is the ticket.

http://www.pro-system.com/friendlydom.html

Like Brian's signature there is more than one way to skin a cat,right Brian :P

Don with all respect i DONT THINK THAT ARGUMENT WAS WITH ME..LOL...i never advocated one of the other...I only showed and explained that alcohol on an electric pump will work . regardless of theorys....the reason i went with the electric pump set up is because i had it..plus i had no room for a front mounted fuel cell nor did i want the extra expense of the cost of converting mechanical set up....Plus i switch back and forth GAS TO ALCOHOL...

Heck i have owned 4 alcohol blown injected cars ( #3 sub 4 second door cars and #1 high 3 second altered) all front cell mounted cam drive mechanical pumps.its the feesible way..but if you cannot do it this way...what do you do ??..stay away from alcohol altogether ?i am always the one to go the shortest and best route,,

but what i think you read from ME is that a electric fuel pump will work..i never tried to compare the 2 methods...nor have i ever tried to say one would work and one would not ..like some things i have read from other people in the past


there is more than one way do this alcohol to carb thing...and i have run both and both work..one may be more ideal than the other but both still works..

i wanted to clear this up..

my alcohol set up- APD Alcohol 1150 carb,Magnafuel pro-star 500 pump,Magafuel 2 port Reulator....runs fine.........i also flip flop back and forth to gas for street....
and the car is not an all out race car...its a pro-street legal car.

brian

Amen! But I'm afraid you'll have a hard time convincing Don of that fact.

George

P.S. Pay no attention to the times in my signature as that performance is with an electric pump which the "experts" say won't work.

George knows :D

OK Guys.... All you have to do is explain to me why when you order a Ruperts fuel system it comes with a Enderle belt drive pump and when you order a Bolaws fuel system it comes with a Bolaws belt drive pump with a built in REGULATOR and no return line needed! They both can make thier carbs work with electric pumps but when you ask them what is best they will tell you a mechanical pump. I am a bracket racer who races 4 to 6 races a month and all i am concerned with is what is most consistant, not about the cost.

I laugh at all the guys with electric fuel pumps breaking at the track. One day I seen 4 different pumps being put on a car all new all junk !! I want something I know wont break on my car, when the seals/bearings/motors go out in your electric pumps in a few years mine will be going strong. I wont disagree they cant work because I've been there done it on several setups just know what last/works for me and several others doing the change over.

Well Don, you and I have been down this road before. My point then and my point now is that what is best for you is not necessarily best for me and vice versa. When I had a carb converted by Rupert he knew it was going to be used with an electric pump. He didn't tell me it wouldn't work.

There are several reasons one may choose to not run a belt drive pump. Is an electric any less consistant? Not according to my experience. If cost is not an issue then by all means go buy the most expensive thing out there. I don't operate on a shoestring budget but I feel my car is as consistant as the next guy's.

There is almost always more than one way of doing things and I have always maintained that the best way is the way that works for you.

George

That part hasn't been made yet David and probably never will. You know, I have never laughed at another racer's misfortune. That attitude always seemed smart alecky to me. Where I come from if a racer breaks we jump in and help him. Not stand back and laugh at him. I guess it's a maturity thing.

George

My thoughts is you tell them electrics are going to break with the alky and when they go that route and then ask for your help you laugh at them !!

quote]

P.S. Pay no attention to the times in my signature as that performance is with an electric pump which the "experts" say won't work.[/quote]

I dont think it was said they wouldnt work, I think it was said it doesnt work as well as the mech pumps. I've used electric on a lot more motor then the one you have. It works ... they just wont last doing it !!!

You ever seen the energizer bunny commercial ... thats kinda like a belt drive set up ... they just keep going .. and going .. and going !!! :lol:

Most things with a rubber seal in it will leak...eventually. Preventive maintenance in the off season will take care of most of that. I've had them leak on alky and I've had them leak on gas. Either way, 20 minutes and $10 later they were running again for another 2 years. Belt pumps, yes, I've had guys tell me they've run them for 8 years or more with no problems and that's great. Does that mean I'm going to run out and buy one? No. So there is a difference in how long they last but they both seem to work equally well when properly setup. Do you know how much stuff I would have to change just to run a belt drive pump?? More than I want to mess with right now. Again, everyone has their own reasons for running what they run. But as long as they run and run well, who gives a rip.

George

dang George !! ..i am confused!!..HOW MANY TIMES does this thing need to be spelled out ?....its a preference...AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE ??..or maybe i am getting so old i don't get it as fast !!! :roll:

i like strawberry ice cream you like pecan ice cream...ok...so its still freakin ice cream.....

i have not been laughed at yet..but i guess there will be a 1st time down the road...


Brian

ALL I KNOWS IS WHEN I TRIED TO CHANGE FROM USING A TOILET TO USING A CARB == IT HURT MY" BUTT" TOO MUCH WHEN I SAT ON IT- :cry: :cry: :cry: --SO I KEPT THE TOILET!!!!!!! :x :x :x :xLOL--LOL--LIVELY YOUR FRIEND

I guess we're just hard heads Brian. It's OK for us to be able to have preferences in tires as in GY vs Hoosiers vs M/T but not fuel systems. The only guys I've ever laughed at were the ones thumbing their noses saying My stuff's better than yourrrrr stuff, My stuff's better than yourrrrr stuff, like a playground bully. They go on the trailer just as easily as the next guy.

Then there are the guys that say, "Well, I've been running alky for 15 yrs!" as in "Don't question me!" to which the only thing I can say is that they should have been using turnouts on their exhaust.

George

George I hope one of these guys don't come back and tell you how good their toyo tires are :P

Really!! Oh, the pressure!

:D :D

George

Look, all three of you guys are missing it. All i am saying is dont make it look like you run an electic pummp because somebody said it could not be done. It is preference 100% but i chose to tell those who ask questions that i like the belt drive pump systems. You use to be able to do that and everyone had thier opinion but now days if you dont agree with the site administrators or some moderators you got a friggen fight on your hands. WHATS UP WITH THAT !!!!!!! When users browse here and do not post i can see why.

I'm glad you agree it's personal preference. Maybe we'll start agreeing on things after all.

No one has ever asked that you agree with admins or moderators. You're entitled to express your views. But in previous posts you certainly chided anyone with thoughts of running an electric pump regardless of their reasons for doing so. That was my beef. In fact in that earlier thread where you and I butted heads you chastised me and said I was leading a poster down the wrong path when I told him how to setup his rear mounted tank/electric pump when that was his question. If he had wanted instructions on how to setup a belt driven pump I would not have tried to convince him to change to an electric. If he had asked which one I thought was best I would tell him but that doesn't make me right or you wrong. I have never disrespected your choice of equipment. I have only asked that you respect others who may choose to do things a little differently than you. If we agree on that then we have no problem.

George

wait a minute Don...you came at me with your 1st reply stating i was trying to make an electric pump sound the best route to go....i have never said this and you and i have never had a one on one discussion about this..

i was just trying to give a guy some help on his set up,,which will require both pumps on his current set up...you came at me to re-hash old news you had with another person on this board..i guess you forgot who your 1st discussion was with..i don't know :?:

but make no mistake when you jump in this post ( aiming at me and putting words in my mouth)..i will respond......dont throw a rock and not expect one to be thrown back...even if i am a Mod...nowhere in the rules it says we have to roll over to inaccurate information or insults......

nobody has ganged up on anyone..i think we all have agreed that both pumps will work and its a preference..
why you trying to take it down another path ????...seriously man..if this is picking on you ..i apologize..

i think we have reached common ground on this fuel pump issue..but if you feel you must re-direct fire away..



here is your 1st post on this thread making the accusations toward me..that prompted this old news to re-hash...

(f i had my druthers on alcohol..it would be a front mounted cell with a mechancial pump...) Brian...... I am so happy to finally hear you say that! You have been making it look like an electric pump was the way to go on alcohol with a carb. Don
Brian

We have :D I think we all use what has worked the best for us !! Like mentioned its like compaired ford to chevy .. some guys just use different stuff and both can work.. I will still swear by my belt drives working awesome for years :P

I've never run alky but I really liked the comment about the carb not caring where the fuel comes from, mechanical or electric, just so long as the bowls stay full. I have to say I really agree with that statement. :)

I don't think this would apply to an injection system though?