Again, I'm not defending the brand x Chinese block, I have no doubt that is a cheap piece of crap.

I do not have any vested interest in the Chinese blocks or the block that PBM is selling either.

Mark

Again Mr low poster this again is my quote That statement DOES NOT SAY I AM 100% SURE.

So don't put words in my mouth

And if you have read all my posts you will see I have never seen a PBM block to compare against.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I'm not 100% sure though.


****EDIT POST****

Grow up this is a technical section. NO BASHING HERE!

Site Admin.
topsportsman1

Tom McDunnah

I don't get the "low poster", "first time poster" comments either. At one time everyone was a first time poster, even you. I've been a member here for almost a year & check it out every once in a while when I need some info because there are some very knowledgeable people that post here. I do this on many forums & every so often I decide to throw my hat in the ring. On almost every forum I get the "low post" comment so it's not just you. I'm just saying I don't get it.

Boostaddict: Iknow what your saying i've been rolled down the low post ally also.

this is my opinion,

It just shows what your intrest are,as if you have a stake in it.

thats all,im sure y'all or fine people.

hink talk's up dart ,dose he have a stake in it I don't know.

he sells dart blocks but I still think he speaks the truth, not just hipe to sell stuff

x2.

I'm ordering mine
 

Just got off the phone with PBM and i'm ordering a new block for my new 434ci.. In my opinion the block that Hink is dealing with is in no manner a PBM block, one of the most glaring reasons being on the pan rail opposite the oil filter they have the PBM logo cast into the block as well as cast into all the main caps also when bored out to 4.185 the Dart states the cylinders will still be .230 thick and the PBM .250 my reasoning the PBM might be a slightly stouter piece. One line of reasoning i can't get away from is the fact i find it hard to believe PBM is going to risk thier reputation to bring a piece of junk to market,let's face it in the age of the internet it does'nt take long for junk to be exposed for what it is.PS the block is 1825.00.

Re: I'm ordering mine
 

PBM is engraved on the block and caps as there is a big differance between casting the numbers in the casting and engraving with a CNC machine.

PBM's aluminum block there is PBM casted into the block.

I see this block on EBAY as a Procomp block which looks just like the one I have for 999.00 and no one bid on it HMMMMMM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

This one is on Racing Junk for 1100.00 and they have 21 of them for sale.
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1...350-MAINS.html

Re: I'm ordering mine
 

if your buying a knock off block for $1825, why wouldn't you spend a couple bucks more and buy the proven real LIL M? with all the money and work going into a build it just doesn't seem worth the risk :?

Chinese look a like Little M block
 

There is one of our members in Monee Illinois that sells Little M blocks for real resonable price. I bought one, am using it, have never seen one advertised cheaper and he is within my driving range to pick up.
I bought Pro Comp BBC valve covers and they were 1/4" short in length and would not hold a gasket without leaking. I don't think I would buy a PRO COMP Chinese block or heads after that.

You know guy's i appreciate the way your looking at this but did'nt someone have to buy the first Dart block in order to gain it's reputation. Where i live a lot of the guy's use PBM parts in thier dirt cars some turning a little over 9 grand sometimes with no quality or durability issues. Life's full of chances and if this piece is what they say it is i think it might prove to be a more stout piece than the Dart. Being a Manufacturer myself i would'nt risk my reputation that i could put a part on market prematuely and i don't think PBM would either. You know if the piece doe's turn out to be what it is indicated to be it could be a hell of a bargain. I like that all 5 mains are 4 bolt and i like the steel main caps and the fact the cylinder walls are a little thicker as i'm building a super charged engine. Sometimes you have to take the leap of faith in life, here go's

Yes true. But you also got to put into perspective that there are guys out there that are only interested in the money aspect and dont care what kind of product that turn out.

No bashing here? Then how come you don't delete this whole thread? The whole reason Hink started this thread was to bash PBM about a block he hasn't even seen yet?

DirkaDirka: I agree with you 100% thier are a lot of scum bags out there so it comes down to a matter of trust. The way i see it it's the same as buying a set of JE pistons or a Jesel valve train it is a matter of trusting who you are dealing with.

Have not bashed the PBM block as others have on the Yellow bullet site and some have accused that the block in the pics I posted and the PBM being the same block. Plus I have had a call from a reputable shop that has both in his shop and said they are the same casting.

AGAIN I HAVE NOTHING BUT ONLY HERE SAY TO COAMPARE AGAINST RIGHT NOW, If a PBM block shows up here I will post pics of the 2 blocks and every one can make their on decision if they are the same blocks or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope when I get a PBM block I have not been lied to about their block not being the same.

Dick Boyer has been asked many times where is this block coming from and who's is machining the castings and no answers so far. And I am very curious myself.

I BELIEVE you are the same poster on speed talk forum yesterday and you didn't get far over there did you and here are some of the quotes from some guys over their.

Well I guess these quotes say alot about what I have said and my reputation.

I am a WD for Dart and even posted about a problem with their SHP block which shocked alot of people but Dick Maskins is a stand up guy and the problem was resolved the next day.

I have posted problems about many machine shop issues and block issues over the years.

Here is an interesting quote from the yellow bullet forum look at the last paragraph HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Here is the link http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?p=2647109



[/quote]

Why delete the thread? No need to do that.

I got a question for you.Why did you sign in here with another name?

You did post under another name in this thread right? jp

Interesting What was the other name???? Thanks for being on top of things.

Carl

there are only a few that it could be

I BELIEVE they have not been to honest with every one so far and have been trying put words in my mouth.

Desprate salesmen will say desperate things to get a sale and so far it looks like I MAYBE right and I said MAYBE.

x2, I could smell it early on in this thread.

I think he was even talking to him self. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

Dam, im almost sorry i brought up the Chinese block a few weeks ago on another thread (NOT!!!) i was messing with Carl on that thread (just a little) but i have total respect for his ability to check these blocks out. I too have a connection with Dart and i won't say what i paid for my Dart lil M blk. But i will say that the only thing i had to do was bore it and hone the lifter bores, the mains were fine, no line honing. I read the thread on YB and someone mentioned checking the Chinese blk. with a CMM, i gotta say i've never seen a CMM that could check out a blk. and i've been a machinest for over 50 yrs. and we have a $250,000.00 CMM. But that's not the issue here, i want bash anyone's product and i can also buy the Chinese version for less than $1,000.00. With that said, i will wait for the results of the metal test and the probe/location diminsions test on the PBM and the ProComp blk.

JMO

Zip.

An interesting post on the speedtalk forum

Let me GUESS here jpcomeaux and boostaddict are the same person and I am guessing you live in Florida and I am guessing you maybe work for Wheeler because JP or JT was qouted from wheeler as having their blocks cast in the same place Dart has theirs done.

Am I even warm here or are my guesses way off, Just trying to add everything up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I maybe way OFF as its only a GUESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There you go BELIEVING again Hink. I've never even been to speedtalk. And topsportsman1, I'm not jp. This is the only account I've had & the only user name I've had since 2008. If I were jp & I started a new account wouldn't it say joined: xx august 2009?

The IP address don't lie.

Why wouldn't he be interested? He imported a pile of turd,dumped them on the market,and now he has the best and brightest machinists in the country telling him every flaw in it. Then he'll pick up the phone,call the world's greatest reverse engineering counterfeiters-the Chinese-and tell them how to fix it. Lather,rinse,and repeat a couple times,and all his R&D has been done for him. Now he has a reputable product with a price point lower than the American company (DART) that was copied,and the downward spiral continues.

If it were me,and I would encourage all the engine builders to do the same,I'd just tell 'em it's all wrong,kick it outdoors,and let it rust in the gutter. It's probably going to come about anyway,but I would at least make them work for it rather than just steal it.

That's just my knee-jerk reaction/opinion however-your mileage may vary.

But in the RJ as he states the block has been finished honed, but is a little tight, and takes it on out to 4.155, thats not a hone job, thats boring. And then he says they have been align honed but recommends doing it again?!? That does little to convince me to stick my neck out.

QUOTE from speedtalk

Finally did the final probling of the Brand X block

Block datum points in the CNC machine are the cam and crank center line, center line of the bar through the mains and the center of the head dowel on the front of the drivers side block.

Also the block uses the same dowel holes under the fuel pump and starter area which I would say means the blocks are being machined on a track system which is used in high production machining.

One of the biggest problems with the block is from the center of the dowel pin which is the datum point, From there out to the front of the block the demension is suppose to be .845 and on this block its .865 which will move the cam a head in the block .020 and on a flat tappet cam the lobe will not last long riding on the edge of the lobe.

Now if you are using a BHJ lifter bore fixture which referances of the front of the block and going to an lifter .875 lifter bore it will leave a shadow on the rear of each lifter bore which means every lifter bore will need to be bushed even to run a .875 lifter.

The cylinders on the both sides were with in .003 front to rear.

On the even side left to right or intake to exhaust or I call this Y-axis the best was .001 worst was .0038

On the odd side in Y-axis best was .0018 the worst was .0077

Deck heights were on the even side were
low was 9.028
High was 9.038

Deck heights on the odd side were
Low was 9.029
High was 9.032

On the lifter bores we check the angles on all four corners only which should be 41 degrees.

Front lifter bore cylinder one was 40.937
Rear on cylinder seven was 41.026

Front lifter bore cylinder two was 41.020
Rear on cylinder eight was 41.014

I also used a .8425 cutter and machined down appox. .200 down on all four corners

And on cylinder one first lifter bore the cutter cut appox.006 at about 8 O'clock looking from the left side of the block which means the lifter bore was to far back and to far to the inside of the block

On cylinder 7 the rear lifter bore cut only at 12 O'clock looking from the left side of the block meaning the lifter bore was to far to the out side of the block appox. .006

On cylinder number 2 front lifter bore and cylinder number 8 rear lifter bore the cutter was only cutting at 12 O'Clock looking from the left side of the block which means the lifter bore was towards the inside of the block to much appox. .004

Running a roller cam your are dealing with direct center lines and having lifter bores of that far will change your seat to seat timing events.

The other problem I mentioned earlier was the hole through the lifter bore front to rear to and on the front lifter bore even side was the with in .003 of the Dart block but the rear of the hole dropped .0024

Looking at the 2 blocks side by side the hole in the Brand X block looks like the oil hole is 3/16 closer to the bottom of the lifter bore compared to the Dart blocks, The problem being is there is not enough material under the bottom side of the lifter bore or cam tunnel area as I measured from the cam bearing journal to the casting and its .200 different then the Dart block. Which means there maybe a chance of the lifters oil band being exposed when the lifter is on the base cirlce of the cam and more so a bigger problem with a small base circle camshaft.

From here the block is going to an other shop to have a brennel test done.

At this piont I am not going to waste my time check the cam tunnel for its locations as I have spent to much time all ready.

From my findings this block needs a lot of work before it could be used and if its a soft as I think it is there is no cure for that.

I am just curious....I understand we are talking about a race type block. But how does this thing compare to a production Chevy block as far as being to print? Would the average 010 block do better, worse or about the same as this if you measured it the same way? I am not asking this to make an argument for using this block, I am asking to satisfy my own curiosity as to how close to "right" a factory block is. Nothing more.

Thanks for the info Carl.

Compared to this block the 010 blocks are better as they use the center of the dowel hole under the fuel pump boss to locate everything from front to rear on those blocks and they seem pretty close.

010 very from block to block as far as lifter bore and cylinder placement and cam tunnel placement.

bump