Re: fram
 

Yeah, but how many engine failures have occurred that the owners didn't relate to the oil change they had done a few weeks ago? Keep in mind that the filter doesn't stop the flow of oil but restricts it to the point of opening the bypass and and circulating a reduced amount of unfiltered oil. I have had vehicles come into my shop with lifters clicking and lower than normal oil pressure that was still in the safe operating range right after an oil change had been done. Replacing the fram filter with a different brand has always fixed the problem.

Hey Guys........ I just want to update you on whats going on . Frams/Honeywells attorneys have contacted me this week asking for a continuance. I don't know if they are just messing with me or it's legit? Anyway I have another court date sometime in December! Cross your fingers for me! Now I just want to get something straight after seeing all of the responce to this thread I am sure anyone can see that many others beside myself have had similar problems with Fram filters. I would say just one is bad enough if it was your 15 or $20,000 engine. The biggest thing with me is that they advertise all over the drag racing community on dragsters, billboards you get the picture but they won't stand behind there product! I think they think most people will go away or aren't willing to fight a huge corporation like Honeywell/Fram and like with my thing I sent the filter in hopes that they would see that there filter completely fell apart but instead of saying it was there fault they sent me a letter with all kinds of technical crap the average guy doesn't understand. So what happens the average guy says well maybe it wasn't the filter!?I have been talking to many well know engine builders since this happened to my engine and they completely agree with me that there was NO reason for my engine to cause the filter failure!

Thx
Stan

Stan
You are exactly right. They will send technical info, but you need the same in your defense. Make sure you have info and a very reputable engine builder with you. Please don’t go to court without being very well prepared!! I said the same thing, no way am I going to waste my time and money to lose to a big corporation. Mine failed almost 10 years ago and I’d never heard of anyone else having filter failure before.
I don't care what a judge says, fram has a problem and I want use them again.

years ago a friends mustang engine siezed up because of a fram filter
and they ended up paying for a brand new engine -

Fram,costs more and made in canada-
STP costs less and made in the USA
Fram I would guess is being greedy and offers a
less than spectacular filter

I prefer WIX or STP personally

good luck

FRAM
 

CUT A FRAM APART AND CUT A WIX APART. YOU CAN SEE THE QUALITY DIFFERENCE.

i thought wix was the same as fram
could it be because the oil pressure is not factory? and is too great for these junk stock style filters??


"DEAR K&N PLEASE MAKE US SOME AWESOME OIL FILTERS FOR AUTOS"

if they dont already- i havent seen any yet,but im sure they would be the best! k&n are a fantastic filter,and flow great,
(oil and air) :D

filters
 

K&N do make oil filters, I think you can find them on Jeg's or Summitt.

My fram failure was on a completely stock Silverado with less than 100,000 miles.
I've always used Wix and nothing else on my racing motors. Too scared and really no reason to change. ( that i know of).
PLEASE DON"T TELL ME MY WIX IS A FRAM(it)!

Wix is independent, makes NAPA filters and #'s cross reference, nothing to do with FRAM.

Zip.

Get a Fram and Wix and cut them apart,you will then see that they are entirely different. the core that collapsed in the Fram is cardboard of some sort the Wix is steel, compare the filtering media, both volume and type.
At this point most people would never use a Fram again. Bill

Hi Bill,
I am just wondering if you would be willing to write up a little something on your experiences because of Fram filter failure? I have a new court date for Dec. 5th. Please let me know if you are willing? I can give you a call and we can talk it over.

Thx Stan

yea since there are a few of those cases maybe that guy could go back on them now for the total amount of the motor?

i wasn't sure on the k&n oil filters for auto's thanks for the help there ,as i will use them i love there products 8)

Be glad to help you out. 828-286-0780 Bill

I was telling one of my good friends about this thread to remind him of my fram issue several years ago. His little boy was listening. After I finished he looked at me so serious and asked what if you cut a ford and Chevy open to see the difference. With a straight face, I told him, SAD, BUT FORD is built by FRAM!! He replied, but their not the ones begging for all the money from the government!! Dam kids :evil:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
OUR KIDS ARE SMARTER THAN OUR GOVERNMENT !
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

LMAO :D

Sounds like somebody needs more chores to do.

fram filters
 

Guys this also happen to me not to long ago, I had just got a new short block from Shafiroff a new dart block and all th e goody's put my cam and heads on it set it in fired it up and it realy sounded good let it get good and hot shut it off ,later my son came by to hear it run and when it started i noticed I only had about 20 lbs of oil pressure .shut it down and started checking things out after pulling valve covers checking the oil I pulled the filter off and found it had collasped on the inside blocking the hole .Didn't hurt the motor but I use nothing but K&N from that point on

Fram Problem Here Also
 

One year ago I was doing an oil change on my 69 Camaro powered by
a 434 SBC It's mainly a bracket car. I decided to go to Wal-Mart
and pick up some mobile 1 synthetic oil about $50, I thought it was the cheapest place to buy the oil, Well they didn't carry the K&N that I normaly ran so I picked up a Fram. After I changed the oil I loaded the car on the trailer and headed off to the track, Now keep in mind that my motor only makes 60 psi cold and 45-50 warm and Idles at 28-30
so I make two passes and no problems, I make the third pass and half way through the oil pressure drops to "0" so I kill the motor, pull the car to the trailer and once it's loaded I check the oil, oil level is fine so I start the car and no oil pressure so I shut it off and take it home. I connected another oil pressure gauge to the engine and fired it again and no oil pressure was the results, I pulled the engine from the car and dropped the pan nothing in the oil so I strained it to put it back in.
I also installed a new oil pump got it buttoned up dropped in my pump primer hit the drill and nothing so now I'm thinking time to rebuild.
Something told me to wait so it sat on the stand for two weeks as I talked to every one I new and every one had there opinions but when an older guy at the track said he had the same problem and it turned out to be the oil filter and it was a Fram, I thought that was easy enough to check .
So on the way home I picked up a new K&N and installed and hit the drill
and Yes right back to 60 PSI. After that I put 200 more passes on the motor and pulled it to freshen it and the bearing looked great. So from that day forward I will not buy any Fram products and I tell every one that Fram filters are garbage.

oil filters
 

put a fram on and when i hit 5000 rpms oil pressure fell to 20 psi because oil by pass would open , fram is ok for the family car but not a race filter, but I dont know how the expensive fram preformance filter is, but there is a lot of inexpensive filters on the market, that will out preform a fram

are you guys talking about their regular filters or frams racing filters because i had their regular filter collapes on me but i now use their racing filters

With all the bad experiences out their with Fram filters, what difference would it make. Their are plenty of other good filters that haven't had these problems. Why take any chances with your engine.
Dont use FRAM filters would be my bottom line opinion!!

has anyone had this problem with frams hp4 filters they are made for the high pressure oiling systems im not defending fram but i have not had a problem since i changed to the hp filters they are around 12 bucks at summit compared to 4bucks for the stock fram filter i also will change filters after readig this post but i still want to know if anyone has had problems with the hp filter

After my first bad experience with a stock Fram. I installed a Hp Fram. Didn't have any problem with the first one, but little while after the second one, my oil pressure went down to 40psi. Then 20psi, then to almost nothing. IMO I think something blows out in the filter. In their defense, everytime I've heard of this, it was with an engine with more than 60psi. Mine engine idles hot at 50psi but goes up to almost 80psi with the rpm up. You can run one, and it may work, but I think its a problem waiting to happen.

Hey guys....... I went to court Friday. I asked the judge for a continuance because I happened to know a judge and I told him about a week ago about my problem and he said don't go in without a pro witness someone that looked at my parts and is in the business of building engines. So I didn't ! I couldn't get my engine builder quick enough for my court date so I asked for a date in Jan. The judge did ask us to go out in the hall at the court house to see if we could "work" things out......... Well I did just to see if maybe they would maybe settle out of court,but the guy Honeywell/Frams lawyer brought with them who was suppose to be Frams expert said Fram isn't going to pay on this because they don't think they are at fault and that maybe it was contaminents in my oil that caused the failure!? Are they kidding contaminents. I told this "expert" that I ran this exact engine , oil and oil filter all last year without any problem so why now ? Contaminents? Then he asks me if I drag race the car? Yes. Then he says well that filter wasn't meant to be used on that application. Well I have one really big question......... Why is the NHRA logo on the Damn box!!!!! I'll bring this up in court in Jan. I can't wait to hear their answer!

Stan

I HAVE BEEN DIRT TRACK RACING FOR FOUR SEASONS NOW AND I CAN TRULY TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE DRIVER WITH A FRAM FILTER ON THEIR RACE CARS. I KNOW FOR A FACT MOST OF US RUN WIX, I ALSO RUN WIX FILTERS ON MY DAILY DRIVER WHICH IS ALSO THE VEHICLE THAT I PULL MY CAR TO THE TRACK WITH WEEKLY. I WORK FOR OREILLY AUTO PARTS AND I PERSONALLY WOULD RECOMMEND TO ANY CUSTOMER TO PURCHASE OUR HOUSE BRAND RATHER THAN A FRAM. NO B.S IT'S PRETTY SAID WHEN THE BIG COMPANIES ADVERTISE CRAP SAYING THAT IF THERE IS ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR VEHICLE DUE TO THE USEAGE OF OUR PRODUCT WE WILL PAY FOR DAMAGES. WELL THE BEST WAY TO GET BACK AT THEM IS TO SLAM THEM ON EVERY WEBSITE THAT YOU AND YOU FELLOW RACERS VISIT. BUST THEIR ASSES.

It want help you now, but for anybody in the future. Get an oil sample and send it to a lab. I'm a manager for a heavy equipment co and we sample all fluids (Trans, engine oil, hyd oil, rear and front axle, final drives) when we service equipment. That would have given you proof from a lab that specializes in oil test. Would be hard for fram to beat that.
My 1994 chevy silverado was completely stock.
FRAM OIL FILTERS ARE JUNK!!

It doesnt have to be a race application for FRAM to fail!
 

OK my turn! I have a 1994 Toyota 4x4 truck with a 22r 4 cyl. I drive it everyday. Wal Mart stopped selling the AC Delco filters so I bought a few frams for the first time about 2-3 years ago. One day the engine oil light came on and I didnt beleive it so I kept moving on but slowly. In another 50 yards I heard the valve train start to rattle and I shut it off. I got out and checked the oil first thing, no oil on the stick....I couldnt believe it! I got help and added oil to the fill mark and started it up. NO OIL PRESSURE! I went and got my truck and race car trailer and brought it home. A friend of mine is a toyota mechanic. He ask me what filter I used and I said a fram is on it now. He said CHANGE THAT FIRST THING. I did and the oil pressure came right back. Guess what else........It all of the sudden had double the amount of oil in it!!! Now on these engines the filter is on its side! Where did all that oil hide?? Weird if you ask me. I am lucky I was paying attention. If someone else was borrowing my truck and that happened it would have been history and I wouldnt know why. You guys....it doesnt have to be a race application for these things to fail!!

It is amazing how many people have had problems with Fram filters! These guys at Fram aren't going to admit to their filters failing because that would be an admission of guilt and if that happened WOW could you see the people coming out of the woodwork!I was talking to my engine builder today about the same subject and he said he has had alot of engine failures that he could attribute to Fram filter failure but knowone is willing to go after these guys!!! Everyone thinks that they are so big that they can't be beat!!! Well I hope to prove that WRONG next week! Wish me luck!

Thx everybody that has chimmed in on this thread!!!!I'll keep you posted.

Stan

It is my understanding that the Fram filtering material is so fine that they are not able to move the required flow of high volume pumps, thus causing internal collapse. Or as in a daily driver, the long term wear of internal engine components as well as contaminants, etc., will plug them up faster.
In other words, they are over built.

Fram is Overbuilt???????????? Was that something fram puts on the box?

I was a GM mechanic and now I work for John Deere supervising their drivetrain test lab. I researched oil filters for my BAJA boat. It's old, but it still has a big block Chevy. The Fram filters are put together with paper elements and glued together. It would not take very high press. to make one of these filters come apart. Cold startups and thick oil are enemies to this filter. DO NOT USE THEM. THE AC DELCO AND WIX ARE SUPERIOR!!!! USE THEM. IT'S WORTH THE EXTRA MONEY!

Scott

RE:fRAM FILTERS
 

Thank's for the advice Stan...I am going to pull the fram off My engine as of today...It is just TOO BAD that some''high er up'' at fram cannot see what damage they have done by a simple mistake...With a big company....SATISFACTION BY THE CUSTOMER RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well boys, I have used fram filters on a handfull of race engines I buillt with no problems. Until now.

I quit using them becouse of everything i heard, even though I had never had a failure. Well, last week i had a customer call me saying that his oil pressure droped from 55lbs @1100 rpm to 19lbs , and all he did was change the oil and filter. (I sent it out with a wix race filter, he changed to a fram) I told him to change the filter and call me back. He called me back today after installing another wix, and the oil pressure returned to 55lbs.

Im the last person to throw stones......but i will never install another fram oil filter.

Steve

i got 1 for you guys. i dont and cant recall ever using fram but i have for as long as i can recall been using wix. i use wix on my drag car pickup and the kicker my semi. the abuse my cat holds almost 70 psi at hwy speed which is almost all day long almost every day and if its hot or really cold never gets shut off till i get home. this motor had just under 2 million miles on it when i sold the truck. i only use wix for oil fuel and water with 9 gallons of rotella and 1 gallon of lucas changing the oil every 10,000 miles. i know its not the same as a drag racing motor but still thats alot of miles and alot of hours.

fram? whats a fram?

WELL........... I went to court and made my case. Fram showed up with a big shot lawyer and their so called specialist that said he had every degree in the world! Anyway I lost the case! The best part was that the judge said at the end of the trial that if he was going to rule on the case based on his "heart" he would have ruled for me! Then he said because he has to rule based on how well the case was presented he said he would have to rule in favor of FRAM???!!! I guess I could have spent $ 1000.00 or more and brought an attorney with me but then that wouldn't have guaranteed a win for me and then I would have been out a bunch more $$$$$ that I really don't have. One thing that really made me feel good was when we first went to the frt of the court room the judge asked me if I had an attorney with me ? I said no! He then said he thinks it would be better for me if I had one and asked if I would like a continuence so that I can get a lawyer. I was thinking it over and as I was thinking it over Frams attorney told the judge that they have already spent the amount I was asking for just coming down from the Cleveland ohio area and spending the night. Boy it felt great knowing that they had to spend some money on this whole deal!! One more thing when I was leaving the court room I looked back at the judge and said your honor do yourself a favor and don't use a Fram filter on your car! Whats next? I don't really know maybe a class action law suit? Maybe? Or just keep this forum going so that we can let as many people know about these Crappy FRAM filters as we can!!!!!!
Thanks everyone

Stan

Fram
 

Just cleaned the garage a little bit. Threw 5 new Fram filters in the trash where they belong. Funny how the junk collects.

Need to start a new competition for car shows and other car related events. FRAM TOSSING ! Either by arm or by launcher.
Work it into a charity event for our military families.
Gads would Fram's lawyers have a herd of cows or what ?!?! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

THATS the part that is bullshit. Funny how things work.

I guess we should have all pitched in and help get you an lawer. To bad a laywer hasn't had the same bad experience we did with fram!!!!