nitrious

[hotrod1994]

so im putting a sbc together and wanna know if it would handle a 50 shot 75 shot 100 shot?
rods say they are "good" to 550 im should make close to 500 on motor
they are 5140 forged rods do you think they will handle 7000rpm with a little spary?
pistons are speed pro coated hyper pistons 11:1

[Swiley383]

I would much rather have 4340 H beam rods and forged pistons at that RPM you may be pushing the limits. That said I know of lots of people running sbc motor to around 6500 with stock rods. I built mine for longevity with H beams and forged pistons and I don't run nitrous. Without forged pistons do not let it go lean and be carful with the timing.

[mytmouz]

No spray on the hypers, first time you detonate, one will break...

[hotrod1994]

im not so worried about the pistons they were 200 bucks a set not a bad price as long one doesn't explode and damage the cylinder or the head. im more worried about the rods. do i need spray no but an extra 100 hp isnt a bad thing in my opinion

[bjuice]

No hypers with gas !!!..Forged #1 rule when running gas..among 196 other things..

I have to ask..if thats how you felt about running Hypers with gas why ask ?

Just wondering ?

For the record you DO NOT have to detonate to damage a hyper running NOS. The piston matrial CANNOT handle the wear and tear of gas..no matter if small shot.

Also do you realize when you break rotating parts it destroys other parts..A broke piston can wipe out your heads,crank;rods, block other small parts as well..I have seen oil pump and distributer gear wiped out as well. ...could you replace all this plus labor for $200 ?...Why not spend $150-$200 more now and get right parts for application and save thousands ?????? I never have understood this mind set. ...

I take time to answer post like this cause I am the admin on this site over last 10 years. I feel RJ members deserve it..If I were on any other site I would not have responded.

Their are some smart people on this site when it comes to answering questions. You were given good advise by Mytmouz...

[roadkill2]

I'll probably get my tit in a wringer on this, but, Juice is like robbing banks, you're going for the big result but the inevitible consequences aren't usually pleasant.

If you want an instant 100-200 Hp on demand, you will pay for it, either before, by building a bullet proof Bullet or by picking up your puzzle at half track.

I suppose Nitrous has it's place, and there's guys who use it with few negative consequences, but if you're tuned right, running 'em lean and then making 'em leaner on top is a sure fire path to an uncontrolled BANG!

Just sayin'

[bjuice]

I run a total of 600 Shot..tuned to perfection..best of best parts and still got to change Rods,Pistons,Rings valve Job and springs 70/80 passes under full power no more than 100..and you better be checking lash,leakdown constant fuel pressure before every pass. I could go on and on..Its a $4500 preventive maintenance but when your running All Aluminum Big Chief 632ci plus ...its peanuts to what a small broken rotating piece could cost....Sorry but when I hear someone sweating a few hundred in this racing game I shake my head..Its NOT a poor mans sport and unfortunatley I have seen too many guys try this RACE game but should have taken care of business at home. ..I am getting off subject a little but NOT really.

To un-popular belief more engines are hurt at the track running Gas for being too rich than lean..but lean does it as well.j

[curtisreed]

Here are some ramblings from me on the OP's question.

The first thing I think when I read the first post is this. Put aside the NOS question and look at your statement. You are building a motor that should make 500hp, your rods are rated to 550hp and you want someone to tell you that it will be ok to shoot 50-100 more on it? Plus you didn't even say what specific rods they are.

Hypereutectic pistons really don't like detonation. The guys told you that and you didn't like the answer. Those pistons are pretty good in their intended environment. The problem is that if your tune is off some or you get a little oil passed your rings you have traveled outside of the envelope of safe operating parameters for hypereutectic pistons.

500hp with a small dome and 5140 rods is a good decent running small block. If you want to make 600hp build the motor to do that. Don't try and do it with a 500 max hp build and be disappointed.

This is just my humble opinion so take it for what it cost.

Curtis

[TheYellaBrick]

Did I read that he wanted to build a one pass grenade ? No ? Sounds like that's what he wants cuz that's EXACTLY what he will get if he continues upon this path. 500-550 hp is a lot of power that will last a while if built properly.
HotRod, speed costs money, how fast you wanna go, for MANY times or just a handful, if that ?

[hotrod1994]

so no spray i got that part thanks it was just an idea id have to run a high gear instead of my 4.88 and pick up a nitrous converter anyway. i never siad i didn't like the answer!! i take all the info i get from you guys and put it to good use

yeah racing is the rich mans game but im out to prove the broke guys that build cars put of their single car garage can hang with the guys with tens of thousands of dollars. my dad and uncles did it and im gonna do the same regardless of who tells me different

[bjuice]

so no spray i got that part thanks it was just an idea id have to run a high gear instead of my 4.88 and pick up a nitrous converter anyway. i never siad i didn't like the answer!! i take all the info i get from you guys and put it to good use

yeah racing is the rich mans game but im out to prove the broke guys that build cars put of their single car garage can hang with the guys with tens of thousands of dollars. my dad and uncles did it and im gonna do the same regardless of who tells me different

What type racing you plan on doing ? What kind of racing did your folks do and how long ago ? Hey man I wish ya the BEST for real...let us know how it turns out.

[TheYellaBrick]

I'm one of those 'little guys' also. If you want to play with the big dogs and beat them then you better research EVERY aspect of your racing program. It has to be a downright SCIENCE project that consumes you 1000 %. Cuz that is what THEY are doing AND have money to buy the BEST in parts and machine work.
Do you want to beat 'em just once or on a continuous basis ? Once, it'll take a bucket of money, repeatedly it will take dump trucks full of dough. Then you become 'one of them' !
You might want to start with a smaller goal, attain that, set a newer higher goal, attain that, and so on. EVERY goal that you attain, the information and experiences gained along the way will become priceless and absolutely necessary to make it to the top. You eat an elephant one bite at a time.
You will lose a LOT and win, MAYBE a few. Keeping the fire alive is your ULTIMATE challenge.
We're all here to advise in any way we have expertise or experiences with. Good Luck, Cowboy !

[TheRabbit]

To un-popular belief more engines are hurt at the track running Gas for being too rich than lean..but lean does it as well.j

BJ I had to quote this for because it needs to be said a 1,000 times. You know I learned the expensive way!!
Being lean mostly will cost you some hp, being rich cost you some pistons, sleeve(s) in block, broken valves from piston parts, messed up crank and the list goes on and on!! lol

BTW I agree with you guys on this motor. It's pretty much doing all it needs to handle. Save up some $ and build a motor that can take a decent shot, 200 - 250hp and you'll love it!!

[Swiley383]

That good information I have never heard that about being too rich causing so much damage on the spray.

[TheRabbit]

This is what rich will do for you. It cost me; a sleeve, set of pistons and rings, (those rings were over $700 btw. I want ever use that expensive of ring again) had to turn the crank .10 / .10, a bent valve from the piece of piston that got on top of the piston, a valve guide and a set of Clark copper head gaskets.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/rabbit548/Number4.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/rabbit548/Number4cylinder.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/rabbit548/Spareparts.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/rabbit548/Tornapart.jpg

[Swiley383]

That's ugly I defiantly learned somthing in case I ever do decide to run nitrous on my motor. I had no clue that would be the result of running too rich.

[wazup]

Its like Bj said you have to stay on top of it every pass.

Running a engine with those piston and putting nitrous to them is like lighting a bomb.

[hotrod1994]

my pops had a 70 nova that was street car back in the 70's that ran 10:50's uncle had a 67 chevelle that went 10:70's both with bbc and on a budget all three of my uncles that were into cars had sub 10 second cars and its just a matter of time before i do the same

shes gonna be a street car thats gonna go to the track every month or so for the real street drags the local track has local track being 2 hours away.... as well as a little down the old back roads out here

yellabrick this does consume me 1000% every dime i have goes into this my buddies always ask where all my money goes and my answer is always car parts im always trying to think of different ways to make more power or make this or that more efficient and work better

well i got the crank at the shop now being turned .010 after i get it back i just gotta put it together

il let you guys know how it turns out
thanks guys,Logan

[bjuice]

Great Logan I think your goals of running mid 10s and streetable is very attainable goal for you. Without going into great detail let me give you a few hints to get you in Mid to low 10 sec range....if you got a true 550 hp engine GREAT !! Work on reducing the weight on your car..the reason a light car is fast (et ) is because you can get it moving quicker..once the car is in full forward motion ( going down highway ) weight is not releavent.its fun to put it on a diet but still let it look heavy to the eye...and LIE your A$$ off and say its 3500lbs no matter what it weighs.. :D 8)

[hotrod1994]

she is definatley going on a diet. i wish i could get some weight off the doors these doors on these 2nd gen camaro doors are HEAVY!!

[curtisreed]

so no spray i got that part thanks it was just an idea id have to run a high gear instead of my 4.88 and pick up a nitrous converter anyway. i never siad i didn't like the answer!! i take all the info i get from you guys and put it to good use

yeah racing is the rich mans game but im out to prove the broke guys that build cars put of their single car garage can hang with the guys with tens of thousands of dollars. my dad and uncles did it and im gonna do the same regardless of who tells me different

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like an ass. :oops: :oops: After I read what I wrote it could have come out much better. I myself don't believe racing is a rich man's game, it just depends on how fast you want to go. The more you can do yourself the faster you can go on the same dollar. Heck, I am on the lowest rung of the racing ladder being just a bracket racer in an ugly old roadster. I mostly just don't want the few new racers we get lately to make mistakes that cost them everything and have to quit racing. Good luck with your build, we need all the new blood we can get.

Here is my old junk.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/doorracer/1069856_10201752762565895_791010780_n_zps1909eadd. jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/doorracer/media/1069856_10201752762565895_791010780_n_zps1909eadd. jpg.html)

[bjuice]

I started out 30 years ago street racing..then was introduced to round track, Kart open wheel...you had two type racers those who showed up and rode in the rear and those who showed to win. NOTHING wrong with either.

It depends on the type racing you choose...you can go local bracket racing with a 4 banger 1992 toy celica..some do the same type racing with 4 second 100k rails

My last race over Saturday/Sunday cost me $1300. ( tires included) u gotta have new tires after a weekend race in these 10.5 cars..

[chevynovaman]

[quote="hotrod1994"]my pops had a 70 nova that was street car back in the 70's that ran 10:50's uncle had a 67 chevelle that went 10:70's both with bbc and on a budget all three of my uncles that were into cars had sub 10 second cars and its just a matter of time before i do the same



Wow,
10.50's in the 1970's would put you close or on a world record street car of that era, not alot of aftermarket parts and heads like today. also convertors and slicks have come along way since then and even now days is not the easiest to hit 10.50's in a real street driven car with no trans brake and nos, no race fuel, full exhaust and be reliable.

I would say any engine in good shape will handle 100 shot no problem.
Put a couple gallons of turbo blue in it if your worried about detnation..

[hotrod1994]

its all good curtisreed, im on my way of learning how to do it all now, thanks
you are right!! we need all the blood we can get its hard to find kids my age that are into old school power now there all hopped up on the rice rockets and laptops

well pops was 19/20 and he was born 1955 so late 70's it was a 402 bbc 13.5:1 (ive got one of the spare pistons he had hanging on the wall) rectangular port heads not sure of the cam he ram a tunnel ram with 2 660 center squirters m22 and a 12 bolt with 5:13's out back he never lost on the street 10.55 was his best time at 128 mph at the track he might still have the time slip ill have to ask him

[bjuice]

its all good curtisreed, im on my way of learning how to do it all now, thanks
you are right!! we need all the blood we can get its hard to find kids my age that are into old school power now there all hopped up on the rice rockets and laptops

well pops was 19/20 and he was born 1955 so late 70's it was a 402 bbc 13.5:1 (ive got one of the spare pistons he had hanging on the wall) rectangular port heads not sure of the cam he ram a tunnel ram with 2 660 center squirters m22 and a 12 bolt with 5:13's out back he never lost on the street 10.55 was his best time at 128 mph at the track he might still have the time slip ill have to ask him

That's a BAD machine in the 70's for sure...I like it...

Start with removing the crash bars in the doors and front bumper..tubular cross member kit is a must for the year car you have. not only does it save weight but will also allow a full length oil pan and larger primary headers... Now remember when you get to trimming that pig down understand where you need to lose the weight from jump street...start with doors forward. they have a heavy back glass but don't be so quick to yank that out until all other is shaved down .It's where you want the weight if you have it. I owned a 87 that was built by k-town performance as a promo car for Comp cams..it ran 5.0's at 137mph with a 615ci with a ton of spray. With a 406ci SBC 590HP 550TQ it ran best 6.35 @ 111 mph hitting it hard on the brake ( no nitrous ). I wanted to show you the et difference on the two types engines...this is why I have pointed you to be creative in lightening her up.. once you get her slimmed down then work on getting all you can from your power plant. 8)

I would think most here would agree.. just to let you know although I own a 10.5 Outlaw car...My heart is and has always been with the un-cut street cars. The older I get the more I go back...I currently have a real 73 z 28 Camaro with 6 speed..I would say if I can get it to hook decent and get thru 3rd gear it might be a 7.70-7.80 car..its got s 3.08 gear...also have a 69 Camaro x-11car...4 speed its a 7.20 et car..I have posted this # in the 69..

both cars un-molested and they have NOT been placed on any kind of diet..but understand I am not looking to reach any low et's in either car.

[hotrod1994]

nice!! thanks for all the info bjuice!!

[chevynovaman]

its all good curtisreed, im on my way of learning how to do it all now, thanks
you are right!! we need all the blood we can get its hard to find kids my age that are into old school power now there all hopped up on the rice rockets and laptops

well pops was 19/20 and he was born 1955 so late 70's it was a 402 bbc 13.5:1 (ive got one of the spare pistons he had hanging on the wall) rectangular port heads not sure of the cam he ram a tunnel ram with 2 660 center squirters m22 and a 12 bolt with 5:13's out back he never lost on the street 10.55 was his best time at 128 mph at the track he might still have the time slip ill have to ask him

sounds like he had a good combo.

[bjuice]

nice!! thanks for all the info bjuice!!

Ok I am gonna say this and then shut up. Lol...

If you wanna run 9.80s -9.90s on motor taking out guess work ( R@D) in your year camaro here it is.. This may sound like a lot of money up front but in the big picture its not....here it is.

A PAR built standard deck 565ci with 3x oval port heads..makes 1200 hp and 1000 TQ and will live forever with regular minimum maintenance. Scott Duggins takes in these 565's he has built for people trading up to larger Ci...I have seen him turn them back out fresh for $8,500..you just gotta catch it. These 565ci IMO is the best engine lb for lb..

Tubular Cross member with a good 400 turbo tranny and you got you something that will get in the 9's without much of a diet...

I know some can't expense it all up front but it would be a great package to save for.

[Tod74]

To un-popular belief more engines are hurt at the track running Gas for being too rich than lean..but lean does it as well.j

Could you explain that a little further please....by pm is fine if you don't want to get off subject too much.Too Lean I understand what happens.... What happens when it's fat in regards to the nitrous tune? Just trying to learn

[Tod74]

nice!! thanks for all the info bjuice!!

Ok I am gonna say this and then shut up. Lol...

If you wanna run 9.80s -9.90s on motor taking out guess work ( R@D) in your year camaro here it is.. This may sound like a lot of money up front but in the big picture its not....here it is.

A PAR built standard deck 565ci with 3x oval port heads..makes 1200 hp and 1000 TQ and will live forever with regular minimum maintenance. Scott Duggins takes in these 565's he has built for people trading up to larger Ci...I have seen him turn them back out fresh for $8,500..you just gotta catch it. These 565ci IMO is the best engine lb for lb..
Tubular Cross member with a good 400 turbo tranny and you got you

something that will get in the 9's without much of a diet...


I know some can't expense it all up front but it would be a great package to save for.

Damn $8500!!! That's cheap for that engine. I had between 10-11k in my 540 that I assembled myself from a jegs catalog basically and it didn't make nowhere close to 1200hp. I understand that's a reconditioned one but still beats building your own in your garage.

[bjuice]

I will try to give a good idea without being to drawn out. You will get the idea... Here is my understanding.....when excessive amount of raw fuel enters the cylinder it washes down the coat of oil..the heat build up is so great it cannot dissipate fast enough..the ring lands will lift because of heat..taking out oil rings causing oil to enter cylinder causing detonation...( meltdown )..This happens at a accelerated rate when using Nitrous because of amount fuel used thru the carb and fuel selenoids from the Nitrous.. This is very short version.

[TheYellaBrick]

To un-popular belief more engines are hurt at the track running Gas for being too rich than lean..but lean does it as well.j

Could you explain that a little further please....by pm is fine if you don't want to get off subject too much.Too Lean I understand what happens.... What happens when it's fat in regards to the nitrous tune? Just trying to learn

Sounds like a teachable moment ! Share it with the rest of us, please !

[TheRabbit]

I will try to give a good idea without being to drawn out. You will get the idea... Here is my understanding.....when excessive amount of raw fuel enters the cylinder it washes down the coat of oil..the heat build up is so great it cannot dissipate fast enough..the ring lands will lift because of heat..taking out oil rings causing oil to enter cylinder causing detonation...( meltdown )..This happens at a accelerated rate when using Nitrous because of amount fuel used thru the carb and fuel selenoids from the Nitrous.. This is very short version.

Correct. Basically the motor can't burn all the fuel in the cylinder.
That's why it's so important to read the plugs on a nitrous motor. If it's rich you can either add more nitrous or take away fuel. All is done by changing the jets. Simple fix, but not so simple to figure out. The hard part is every engine is different. I can tell you my tune up and it may work and it may not work or your motor even if they are the same motor.

You can see a pic of the piston I posted and see the ring land is gone. Well it's actually burnt off lol, but if you catch it before that you can see where it is rolling and not holding the rings in place. In my case the fire was from the oil in the cylinder and once the piston burnt through a lot more oil comes up and catches on fire.

One thing about a nitrous motor you have to be careful is when starting the motor. If you have a solenoid that is leaking ANY it will put raw nitrous in the motor and when you start it can explode. (ALWAYS USE A FILTER ON YOUR NITROUS LINES) You should always cut off a valve and bleed the pressure off before you shut the motor down AND have a seperate swith for ignition and start. That's why you see guys turning the motor over a good bit then turning on the ignition on a nitrous motor. Actually a lot of guys use plastic / nylon intake bolts on the intake so they will break loose without destroying everything. I've seen some really UGLY nitrous explosion that destroy the entire top of the motor and hood.

[Tod74]

Thanks.....I figured it had something to do with washing the cylinder down with fuel but didn't know the connection to detonation . This is good info.

[hotrod1994]

thanks for all the help!!!!! this car is gonna be more of street car so i think im gonna leave it alone after this motor and after i cut the weight.....im trying to find a "racecar" to build something light.....im a die hard chevy guy thru and thru but a light fox body mustang with a bic c.i sbc and spray on a 10.5 tire is ideal in my eyes

[roadkill2]

Too Rich is, probably, as dangerous as being too lean. However, it generally takes a lot less time to find out you're too lean, and if you're using juice, you can cause the same results you encounter when you're too lean with Nitro. Instant melting of the non ferrous metals in your cylinders . .

On the Oil thing. No matter where you get the oil in the Combustion Chambers, whether it's from bad or hung rings or leaky valve guides or for that matter, a leaking intake or head gasket, if you know basic physics, you understand that oil burns a lot hotter than the fuels we use, if they're anywhere near the correct mix, and if there's enough, (it doesn't take much) your pistons, too, can look like Rabbit's examples . .

And if you use any kind of forced intake, you'll just double your "pleasure" if you get oil in a cylinder . . It's vicious!

[TheRabbit]

Oh yea trying to burn oil is another topic. It doesn't compress very well and makes a mess of a motor in a hurry. lol

Too Rich is, probably, as dangerous as being too lean.

Actually it's way worse. On nitrous if your lean you loose power. If your fat you burn stuff up and burn it QUICK. What I'm trying to say is it's way easier to hurt it by being rich than being lean. It's really rare somebody hurts a nitrous motor by being lean.
Reading the plugs tell it all. Pretty much when you pull them out they should look like they were never run other than a timing mark on the strap.

Even this plug is rich. I hurt my motor on this tune the next pass after this plug was pulled. I do need to add that this motor was still 15-1 compression. It was dropped to 12.5-1. The lower compression gave me a lot bigger tuning window as the pros call it. I say it gave me more room for my stupidity! lol


http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/rabbit548/2012-11-11_10-52-44_367.jpg

[bjuice]

I wasn't going to say anymore on it cause it goes against what the contrary belief has been circulated for years ....I knew it ( rich ) was going to raise some eye brows when it got mentioned....lol.....

I am far from classifying myself as a Nitrous expert but I have spent many, many summer days/nights at the track under the hood and laying under race cars with experts who run Nitrous. Tony Christian and Steve Kirk just to name a few...Tony runs a mega dose of this stuff...4 stages ALL IN by .08 out.....Tony set up my combo at a private weekend session in Bradenton Fla....So although I am NOT an expert. I know enough about it to know what I cannot do with it and the consequences if I slip up. I run lean...LEAN IS MEAN...My plugs look like they do out of the box after a full power Nitrous pass... I flow the gas solenoids at 5- 1/2 pounds in cool air. We can fudge down to 5 -1/4 and maintain power in more humid air conditions. :shock: :D

There is so much more we can discuss in relation to Nitrous. I could foresee two more detailed pages worth...I joked around at beginning of this thread and said there are 196 areas to discuss on this topic. Well consider we have covered 5 or 6 areas 190 more to go...lol.

if any of you guys are interested in keeping the discussion open please feel free to ask..no such thing as a dumb question...cause I assure you there is a lot of stuff to go over in many area's..engine,NOS set up,converter,gearing ( which some of you might be surprised), utilizing Gear retards, staging with NOS how and why, what do if car stalls ( and you better know or KABOOM )..Proper bottle pressure and why.....on and on and on.. this can lead down many Rabbit holes ( no pun intended Scott... 8) )

here is a link to my profile. There is a embedded vid from you tube on a shake down hit ( small stage 28/32 jets or 300 shot ). The track was bad and we were experimenting with ramping in 3 degree timing gear retard...

would you believe it if I told you that Nitrous is the BEST chassis tuning tool in racing ?

http://www.racingjunk.com/profile/10107

here is a the you tube link just in case...67 nova stock firewall,steel qtrs , steel roof. 10.5 tires..3,000 lbs... best ET in 1/8th 4.68@156 mph 1.10 60ft
PAR Big Chief 632ci with two stages .. 600 shot all in by .07 out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP9MzOuTs9I

[Swiley383]

Somthing I have wondered is what why do a motor purge if you have purge valves is it to clear the solinods out or plugs I see all the guys around here spray big hits do it

[chevynovaman]

I motor purge to make sure everything is on and working. I got to the line last weekend at the mud drags and did a motor purge and it wanted to kill the motor, bottle was accidently closed somehow so I ran on motor only..

[bjuice]

I motor purge to make sure everything is on and working. I got to the line last weekend at the mud drags and did a motor purge and it wanted to kill the motor, bottle was accidently closed somehow so I ran on motor only..

Spot on Sir ! chevynova man just gave a perfect example of his run. Had he not purged thru engine it set the stage of dumping tons of raw fuel in the cylinder washing it down..you know the rest. .. :shock:

[Tod74]

I am glad Brian brought this up because EVERYONE it seems that doesn't know what they are doing ( me) assumes that you grenade a NOS motor by going lean.....YOU ALWAYS hear about maki g sure your fuel pump is up to snuff etc....the only thing that has held me up on running nitrous was ignorance....I have no experience with it and respect it enough to not risk my motor on it without having some sort of help.... My next one I am gonna try a small plate.

[wazup]

Bj looked at the vid and just wanted to ask do you like the hosier tires and have you run M/T and are you running 33/10.5-15w. I'm in need of new ones and looked at hosiers they have 33/10.5-15w reads that they are new tire with c11( Harder) compound. Thoughts if any on the two tires thanks.

Weighs 3100 me in it, older 10.5 car not that that matters.

[bjuice]

Bj looked at the vid and just wanted to ask do you like the hosier tires and have you run M/T and are you running 33/10.5-15w. I'm in need of new ones and looked at hosiers they have 33/10.5-15w reads that they are new tire with c11( Harder) compound. Thoughts if any on the two tires thanks.

Weighs 3100 me in it, older 10.5 car not that that matters.

Yes the M/T is the tire of choice. 33/10.5wx15 is the size tire on the car. Although I have run the same 60ft on both Hoosiers and M/T the M/T holds up longer on the overall performance of the side wall which is what goes 1st on these heavier 10.5 cars making good HP. Many of your top notch racers in this class like to get them off the car between 15 and 20 full power passes..Since M/T is the predominate tire in 10.5 racing I think Hoosier is trying to find a few more passes in their tires with the c-11 compound. I would recommend M/T. I also run tubes it provides for better stability with the heavier car running what they do. Many have other opinions on the tube or not to tube but I swear by it. Plus I have run faster all time ET with tubes on 15 inch American double bead lock wheels.
I got a killer deal on those Hoosiers in the vid. The guy we buy thru at the time was selling off the last of the 15 inch stuff. Everyone has gone to 16's

[bjuice]

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/053020111421.jpg (http://s391.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain1/media/053020111421.jpg.html)

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/052920111411.jpg (http://s391.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain1/media/052920111411.jpg.html)

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/053020111431.jpg (http://s391.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain1/media/053020111431.jpg.html)

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/052920111231.jpg (http://s391.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain1/media/052920111231.jpg.html)

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/08270920141.jpg (http://s391.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain1/media/08270920141.jpg.html)

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/hollywood_pictures_0851.jpg (http://s391.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain1/media/hollywood_pictures_0851.jpg.html)

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/0829091347a1.jpg (http://s391.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain1/media/0829091347a1.jpg.html)

[chevynovaman]

Not sure if everybody knows that Nitrous Oxide systems changed the jetting chart not to long ago. The new charts have dropped the jetting on the fuel side of the plate. Make sure your using the new chart as I still see old charts on the net yet..

[wazup]

Thanks Bj. I have 31/10.5 15w and going to the 33s.

This is my input on nitrous is every engine is different as for the cams, comp,heads ect. The first thing is to get a good tune on motor and then work with what ever system your going to use following there guide lines.

[TheRabbit]

Somthing I have wondered is what why do a motor purge if you have purge valves is it to clear the solinods out or plugs I see all the guys around here spray big hits do it

You motor purge to get the air out of the fuel lines. The first motor purge is really weak. Usually by the 2nd purge the air bubble are gone. You line purge to get the pressure down. The nitrous is at 950-1050 depending on your tune. The fuel is at 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 depending on your tune. The lower the nitrous pressure the less pressure drop you have while going down the track. I go to the line as close to 1,000psi as I can, motor purge only what I have to make it have a crisp hit then line purge if I need to. You really shouldn't need to motor purge on your 2nd pass, but most people do just to make sure everything is working. I've also forgotten to turn on the 1/4 turn valve. It pruges like a turd pretty quick.
And you do need to motor purge every stage.
A street car that always has gas in the tank / fuel lines really want have air in the lines or need to motor purge. Almost all race cars / trucks drain the gas out after a race. I say drain out, but all I do is cut the fuel pump off, run the carb out of fuel then stick my drum pump in the fuel cell and get out what I can get out.


Not sure if everybody knows that Nitrous Oxide systems changed the jetting chart not to long ago. The new charts have dropped the jetting on the fuel side of the plate. Make sure your using the new chart as I still see old charts on the net yet..

I've never seen an NOS jet guide, but i can tell you Speedtech's guide is WAY FAT and will burn your stuff up quick!! Theirs is only a 4 jet spread. I run a 10 jet spread, but every motor is different so you simply can't tell somebody they should run a 4,6,10 etc spread.

What I mean by jet spread is the difference between the nitrous jet and the fuel jet size. Example is 32 Nitrous jet and a 28 fuel jet. That's 4 jet spread.

Let me also tell you most people will LIE to you on their jet spread and hope you try it!!!!


Thanks Bj. I have 31/10.5 15w and going to the 33s.

This is my input on nitrous is every engine is different as for the cams, comp,heads ect. The first thing is to get a good tune on motor and then work with what ever system your going to use following there guide lines.

That's true to a point.

It's really hard to run the car / truck on just a motor pass with such a tight converter and tall gear and get a good read on the plugs.
I changed the jets in my carb to lean it out. I went from 95 to 90's square which is too lean if I were to run on motor alone. Leaning out the carb is a huge debate that not everybody agrees with. Some will tell you to leave the carb alone and tune the nitrous / fuel, but most guys like me that have a dedicated nitrous motor (meaning I don't run without nitrous because of the really tight converter and tall gear) lean the carbs out a good bit.

I totally agree with your post for a car that runs nitrous some of the time and on motor some of the time.

Getting the timing correct and phasing the distributor are important things to do too.

[bjuice]

Hotrod you have some GREAT people on here you can ask questions at Any time. Some have already weighed in. Another one on here is Zipper ( John Allen ) Zip has been running since the 60's that I know of..Zipper is a certified World NHRA recorded holder...He knows his stuff...

[wazup]

Rabbit I agree. My engine is all out nitrous too. I was going on that he was going to run motor and nitrous.

I pretty much run any where from 350 to 700 and like you and Bj check everything every pass. I watch guys at some of the grudge races run pass after pass and never check anything because they don't want anyone to see there engine. Then you got the guys that don't anything that wonder way the engine doesn't sound right after a pass and run it again wondering whats wrong. Bj said it best that there is 196 different things.

[Swiley383]

I sure learned alot about using spray there is a lot more to it than I thought. It a good thing I never sprayed my car sevral years ago when I concidered it. I would have had it all messed up and blew it up in a hurry.

[hotrod1994]

thanks again guys like i said i put all the great info i get from you guys and use it!!

[TheRabbit]

Just so you guys know small kits are simple and I mean really simple to use. If you have somebody that know a little about it nitrous is a lot of fun. It is the cheapest horse power you can buy!! The torque numbers it adds are insane. With a motor that's prepped for it it a lot of fun. Just don't jump into like I did! I went from a single stage 200 shot to 3 kits over 1,000hp of it and it didn't work out so well! lol

[bjuice]

You said a mouth full there Rabbit 200 to 1,000. I also went from 200 to 600/700 BUT I had a tried and true set up and hands on experienced guy with me every pass. You can see him passenger side in the vid. I DO NOT go to track without him.

Also what you mentioned about TQ is 200% true...The TQ #S achieved with nitrous is un-real...

[zipper06]

Hotrod you have some GREAT people on here you can ask questions at Any time. Some have already weighed in. Another one on here is Zipper ( John Allen ) Zip has been running since the 60's that I know of..Zipper is a certified World NHRA recorded holder...He knows his stuff...

I've there and done that, but the one thing i've never, every run is Nitrous, i donot know didly squat about Nitrous, blown gas, blown alcohol, injected gas or alcohol i've been there, but i'm afraid to do Nitrous, because i donot know the limits.
I do know it's very easy to waste an engine on blown alcohol and i'm almost certain it's easier to waste one on Nitrous.

Zip.

[roadkill2]

I'm like Zipper . . Old School, I guess . . I've raced with both Blown and injected nitro, Blown and injected Alky, normally aspirated Gas and now, normally aspirated Alcohol (carburetor) but "I know Nooothing" about Nitrous.

And based on the color of the headers on the dragsters that're using it, don't want any part of it . . If the outside of the engine is that ugly, don't wanna see the inside!

[curtisreed]

I've there and done that, but the one thing i've never, every run is Nitrous, i donot know didly squat about Nitrous, blown gas, blown alcohol, injected gas or alcohol i've been there, but i'm afraid to do Nitrous, because i donot know the limits.
I do know it's very easy to waste an engine on blown alcohol and i'm almost certain it's easier to waste one on Nitrous.

Zip.

Zip,

I would be willing to bet a big shot would show them to you in a hurry. :lol: :lol:

Curtis

[bjuice]

I assure you the limits are found quick..I hope this thread gave a few some insight to a short cut.

I was also a Blower Guy LOOONG before I ran Nitrous..Both Alcohol Blown Injected..the small block was a 383ci the BB was a 572ci

you should have saw them when I drove those straight Zoomies into the show Hall that night..oooohhh my GAWD it was blowing HVAC DUCT WORK LOOSE....LMAO 8) 8) 8) 8)

One of the Local Journalist/Photographer loved my Old school theme Hot rod . This was mid 2000 long before the Rat Rod or reality shows got going...The guy was on to something and I blew him off..he wanted to film a day in a racers life with my 65 Nova..little did I know this could have been big...but who would have thought a REALITY SHOW ?????? so I never called him back .....Ohhh well !!! :shock:

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/brianmcswain/100_0380.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain/media/100_0380.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/brianmcswain/100_0381.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain/media/100_0381.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/brianmcswain/altered3.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/brianmcswain/media/altered3.jpg.html)

[TheRabbit]

Cool pics BJ.

I'll add one more thing about nitrous. At some point you cross a line and into one side effect of nitrous. You will loose about the same amount of et on motor as you gain on nitrous.
In other words when you add a tall gear and tighter converter to handle the additional hp/ torque to gain an extra 2 tenths you'll loose 2 tenths on motor. Of course the amount you gain could be a lot more or less depending on the set up.

It's way worse for me and my application. I gained 1-2 tenths on nitrous from what I use to be able to run, but have lost 7-8 tenths on a motor pass. My motor want turn more than 5500 -5700 on motor alone and it takes FOREVER to do that. lol

[bjuice]

Cool pics BJ.

I'll add one more thing about nitrous. At some point you cross a line and into one side effect of nitrous. You will loose about the same amount of et on motor as you gain on nitrous.
In other words when you add a tall gear and tighter converter to handle the additional hp/ torque to gain an extra 2 tenths you'll loose 2 tenths on motor. Of course the amount you gain could be a lot more or less depending on the set up.

It's way worse for me and my application. I gained 1-2 tenths on nitrous from what I use to be able to run, but have lost 7-8 tenths on a motor pass. My motor want turn more than 5500 -5700 on motor alone and it takes FOREVER to do that. lol

to chime in with Rabbit on the lose of et motor vs. spray pass....My car has a pretty big 7/4 swap..don't have cam card in front of me but wanting to say its 116 or 118 lobe speration 100% Nitrous grind...the converter is soo tight there is NO FLASH what so ever bringing it up on the brake on a motor pass...My tires are 33 inches tall with about 102inch roll out..I run a 3.60 gear..so if you factor in the tire height you looking at 3.30-3.40 gear based on a 30 inch tall tire.

here we go....All motor Pass-ET 5.80'ish 1.32 60ft 126 mph
1 small hit 250-ET 4.92'ish 1.10 60ft 144 mph
2 stages 250/300- 4.68'ish 1.09 60 155 mph ish

see how she comes alive !...My headers are fender well exit but the sound change of the motor from motor to spray sounds totally different in a way I cannot explain...its just freakin mean.

Again Blowers were my first..I have drug the back bumper with my injected set up at 130mph.....but I have to be honest the sudden SHARP TQ curve from the Nitrous Hit is 200x off the chain then the flat TQ curve of the Alcohol injected.....Sort of like jumping in 20 degree water buck naked...YES it will take your breath like this if you have a Big enough shot being dumped in there at one time.....You know your moving when the traps at the end of the 1/8 mile have narrrowed up so much it looks like your trying to drive into a rabbit hole @ 150 mph.

just to show engine comparions

383ci BDS Stage 4 teflon blower,enderle Bird catcher dynoed 1320hp 1100ft lbs of TQ at 26psi sucking in bad air in dyno room.

572ci 1400 series littlefield blower enderle Birdcatcher, promag magneto 2200hp 1600ft lbs TQ

632CI Big Chief EPD fabricated sheet metal intake pair of reed 1200 carbs
engine dynoed by itself 1350..and remember its set up to run Nitrous....the advertised rating on the hp jets 1st stage 260hp 2nd stage 300hp ( probably low on the #'s) but for the sake of argument ad the proven 1350hp plus the rated NOS jets and you got 1910hp.......NOT A CLUE ON TQ....BUT I WILL SAY A BUNCH AT ONCE...


Last Time I said this there were a few that weighed in...First let me say a 60ft time is important in 1/8th and 1/4 mile racing....what I am saying today as I did a few years back is the 1/4 is little more forgiving if you bobble the 60ft, you can somewhat recover..ask any healthy turbo guy...but in the 1/8th mile if you don't pick them up and lay them down like a MADD man in the 60ft you will not have a ET run for Chit..

to prove my point look at my vid below.I left the line on 1 stage and let off.My wife was working the video from the traps..this was a a shake down run for me intentionally meaning to hit it hard at 60 ft and kill it.....I was lined up next to a 5.90et car....I came out hot on 1 gun laid down a 1.11 60ft and around 70ft I let out totally off the gas and costed thru the traps...I still ran like a 7.00et and coasted 2/3rd of the track...the 5.99 car finally caught me at the MPH cone..I was coasting maybe 60 mph by then.. you can hear me coming off the line ( My wife is telling my Daughter here he comes...lol) see me coasting when the 5.90 car just caught me at the end. turn up the volume ...lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn0p3Og6d9o

The reason I bring this up is not to put my Nova on a pedestal...No this is common practice around here...most of your Quick cars run like this...all your Outlaw cars do..I use to shake my head when I would go to a Outlaw race and watch them shakedown doing 60ft full power hits shut the car off just past the 60 ft mark..I mean cut it off and coast thru the traps at 50mph with a 5.50et.

Point I am driving home in drag racing you much rather have a Quick car then a fast car...the example I gave you above explains it...I cannot tell you how many cars I have outran in the past pre-outlaw car days that had better MPH then me but I got there before they did....bottom line they were spinning...you can bet if My MPH is up my 60ft is down.

final point; As Rabbit said what you give up in motor you gain in Nos...you can't have the best of the best in both worlds...but you can build one that doesn't kill you either way and you can have decent power on motor and still pick up 3 tenths or so on spray..your engine guy ( if he is good) can help you with this.
As I type this part I am thinking of Logan .....What you would need out of spray is a car set up that could handle a Big shot NOS(250 hit) off the brake...thats hitting it with 250hp out of the hole...if you can get your car to handle this hit without spinning too bad you will only need that 250hit to stay on 1.5-2.0 seconds this will put you out over the 60 ft mark and on the way to a killer run in the 1/8th mile....In my world if I make up 2.2 tenths on the 60ft...I make up 9 tenths on the entire run...I have known people to activate their Nitrous down track...I personally do not recommend this.Hit it leaving the line while the chassis is naturally loading the Nos hit will help this process and help keep it loaded.....My car is more stable to drive under full Nos pass then motor pass... ...if My math is right here This is how I experience my 1/8th mile ride under full power after the 330ft. ...I am traveling approx 171ft per second from 330ft mark thru traps in 1/8th

whewwwwww..ok I am done...sorry so long guys hope someone gets something out of this..did not want the thread to die.

[Swiley383]

I wish we had so outlaw style racing around here there has not been in a long time. The local track that I run at just does not prep the track good enough to hold that kind of power it got to a point were every time there was a heads up race at least one would crash and people just stopped coming to participate.

[bjuice]

I wish we had so outlaw style racing around here there has not been in a long time. The local track that I run at just does not prep the track good enough to hold that kind of power it got to a point were every time there was a heads up race at least one would crash and people just stopped coming to participate.


ya swiley been there done that too many times...Thats were the gear retard timing ramp comes into play...winning a race is NOT always the fastest ET but rather who gets across the line 1st.....the track has to be good the entire length..