Has anyone else had a bad experience with Naylor Racing??

[mrmopar622]

Has anyone else had a bad experience with Naylor Racing(Proaction Heads) or scammed by them? I saw their ad #1418969 1000+ hp BBC Engines 565-582-600 CID ALL NEW DART BIG M $10,500.00, so I called & talked with owner, Jimmy Naylor. I asked him if he could build 1100+ hp engine, he replied he could any horsepower engine I wanted, I told him I wanted 1100+ hp engine & he stated he would work up an invoice & email it to me. When I received the invoice WHICH I WILL POST FOR EVERYONE TO SEE IN NEXT POST, I called him & asked him once again about the engine making 1100+ hp, he replied "look on the invoice I would not have quoted you that if I could not deliver". At that time, he told me what the deposit would be, which I gave him. I asked him how long it would take, he replied 5-6 weeks MAX. In the end, it was 14 weeks, before the engine was ready. My experience only got worse from there, I had the engine dynoed & at the very start, it was not getting oil to the rockers, so this was an additional $250.00+ gaskets for repair. Upon pulling the intake, instead of using the correct gasket Naylor used two gaskets and one had slipped leaking water into the lifter galley, another $80.00+ for oil & filter. Next I will post the invoice on which you can see where Naylor put 1100+hp then I will post the dyno sheets where you can see this supposedly 1100+ hp engine only made a best of 947 hp. THAT'S 153 HORSE-POWER less than it was supposed to make.

[mrmopar622]

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/5776/naylorinvoice.jpg
This is the invoice from Naylor with 1100+ hp written on it

[mrmopar622]

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/508/dynop1.jpg
This is page 1 of dyno sheets

[mrmopar622]

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/7622/dynop2.jpg
This is the graph from dyno sheet

[mrmopar622]

It is clear the engine is 153 horsepower short of what was guaranteed to me!
When I found the engine was going to have to have additional work at an additional cost to me, I called Naylor and they would not even talk to me about it. After the engine was dynoed, the dyno operator suggested I contact Naylor and ask them about some form of reimbursement(in other words, they should make things right) I sent them an email and the only reply I received was NO REPLY at all, just like in the phone conversation. People like this make it hard to trust dealing with anyone else online.

I'm not sure what to call this, but IT IS definitely Fraud, Scam, False Advertising or Internet Fraud!!

I am going to report their ad to racingjunk in hopes they will check out the documents and investigate this. I know I did not get what I paid for and I am out my money, but maybe I can stop my fellow racers from falling victim to them.

[talldeck427]

thanks i will deal with someone else you just saved me a bunch of money

[TheRabbit]

This is a copy of the mssg I was sent from the builder.

I have no dog in this. Just posting what was sent to me. This was sent at almost the same time as I received some info from the buyer about this. I just want to make sure both have their side posted.


J RaceSpace: Mrmopar
Hi racer


I dont think i know you but i will be happy to send you the invoice were he paid $11500.00 for a very nice 632 that should have cost $14000.00 or better. I tried to help him and now i wish i would have left him alone.The 1100 h.p was with cnc heads that he could no afford so i felt sorry for him and was going to do a set of dart 400 m heads that take alot of work and did him a dart tunnel ram to try and get as close to 1000+ h.p for $11500.00 thats all he had to work with. You know that a 632 with 430+ cfm heads with alky and two carbs will make 1030-1050 H.P we could not dyno the engine,he had all mopar parts to go on engine. He could not afford to by bbc parts to run the engine so he took it without dyno.Here again i was going to dyno at N.C , i have been on here and built alot of engines this is the only one that said any thing bad.I should not have to tell people that i am a good engine builder i am well known by dart,comp manley every on the the big companies i do R&D for them yu cant people comment on the good things people say on here. Sorry to bother you with this but you should know my side.


THANK YOU
JIMMY

[talldeck427]

I'll be giving you a call after first of the year if i still have my car Thanks

[mrmopar622]

First of all, all that anyone needs to do is look at the Naylor invoice where he clearly states 1100+ hp engine in his price for building a 1100+ hp engine. I paid his total price and the only question I had was will it make 1100+ hp, and he told me it should make 1140-1160 hp with the tunnelram on alcohol. If you pay someone to build you a 1100+hp engine should they not make it right. As you can see I have asked and given Jimmy Naylor of Naylor Racing Engines(ProAction Heads) time after time and chance after chance to make it right, and you can see his reply, nothing but excuses. When you buy from a business not an individual, and it is not what you paid for, don't you think they should make it right?

He states I could not afford to buy BBC parts and had to use Mopar parts. In the next post I will post the required Chevy parts that I ordered and paid for from Naylor and by looking at the invoice & parts list for the engine build you can see I bought everything needed from Naylor the total cost added up to over $12,000.00, then when he did not dyno the engine it cost me an additional $500.00 for dyno work, another $250.00 plus $30.00 something for gaskets plus another $80.00 to replace the oil and filter again as when the intake had to be pulled for repairs because the rocker arms were not getting any oil, there was some water in the lifter galley from where Naylor used 2 intake gaskets instead of getting the proper thickness one and one had slipped leaking water. Now if you all would like a good laugh, after 14 weeks when I went to Naylor's to pick up the engine I met Jimmy Naylor for the first time, his eyes were wide as saucers & all spaced out. He pointed at my Terminators in the box and said those Mopar carbs won't fit on this Chevy engine and that Mopar vacuum pump won't bolt up to this Chevy engine or that Mopar Ron's fuel pump.LOL I will post my Mopar parts that were used. I took the 2 #1055(4500 Series) Terminators and linkage with everything remaining in tact that went on the BBC Dart Tunnelram and all I had to do was bolt them to the BBC intake. When we had the engine on the dyno we checked the barrel valve and it did not even need resetting. As for my Aerospace vacuum pump it bolted straight to the BBC head. As for the fuel pump I used the same bracket, may have used different holes, but it bolted right up to the BBC block. The Mopar mandrel as he called it, went right into the crankshaft and the fuel pump & vacuum pump pulleys lined up perfect. I hope this clears up the Mopar parts BS.

After reading all of this if anyone is still thinking about doing business with Naylor Racing, don't make the mistake I made. I also talked with DynaFlow Engine builders on this site and I chose Naylor over them, not to save $1200.00 but because Naylor was close enough I could go pick the engine up when it was finished instead of paying shipping charges.
BEFORE YOU PAY THEM YOUR DEPOSIT, YOU NEED TO MAKE THE TRIP TO NAYLOR'S SHOP AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF. If I had only made the trip I would not be out my money. When you see the shop and their machinery, you won't want to do business with them!
A 632 cu in BBC should make 1100 hp but if you don't first have the machinery and the know how just bolting the parts together is not going to get you much of an engine.

When the deal was made Jimmy said it would take 5-6 weeks max to finish the engine. Below I will post the first and final paid invoices where you can see it took 14 weeks(3-1/2 months) that was this year's entire racing season!!

[mrmopar622]

I'm going to try to redo this!http://imageshack.us/a/img404/7791/naylorchevyparts.jpg
][/img]http://imageshack.us/a/img819/5776/naylorinvoice.jpg
][/img]http://imageshack.us/a/img845/442/naylorfinalinvoice2.jpg
][/img]

[mrmopar622]

If you look at the above post - BBC parts and either invoice you can clearly see I bought everything from Naylor to complete the BBC engine. Jimmy's statement about the terminators, vacuum pump, fuel pump being Mopar parts that would not fit on the BBC might have been humorous to you all but can you imagine the horror I felt when he made those comments after I had paid him over $12,000.00?!?

You can look at the first invoice & final invoice and see it took 14 weeks instead of 5-6 weeks. After waiting that long it still was not right. As you can see, I have proof of everything I have said. Thanks

P.S. If you look at the above Naylor invoice, with the addition of the Chevy parts, the total comes to $12,439.00. The dyno was to have been included in this, by Naylor not doing this it ended up costing an additional $500.00 for dyno work plus another $350.00 for corrections made due to Naylor's poor workmanship. That brings the total to $13,389.00, hmm, not so good a deal after all is it?
This should make it apparent to everyone that Naylor does not stand behind his work.

[hammertime]

So this engine was not dyno'd at Naylors shop ?

[mrmopar622]

As you can see on his ad #1418969 he is guaranteeing these engines & I am sure he will tell anyone like he told me, he will have the engine on the dyno when I come to pick it up. After 12 weeks when I went up there(to see what the hold up was & what was going on - I had only got the run around so far) & Tom had me talk to Naylor's 2 mechanics at 11:30 am when they got there, as usual Jimmy was not there, I asked them if they had a dyno and they said they had one but the brake was messed up on it and they had not dynoed any engines since they had been there. This was on a Friday and I told Tom to have Jimmy call me first thing Monday morning. After he had not called by 1:00 pm I called him and finally got to speak with Jimmy and told him what his mechanics told me about the dyno. He said his mechanics did not know what they were talking about & why was I worried about the dyno anyway, he wasn't dynoing my engine. I told him that was in the agreement and he said it was not anywhere on the invoice & he was not dynoing it. I reminded him that his invoice said 1100+hp & he said the final invoice, when I paid him the rest of the money, would have it on it too.

But to answer your question, NO it was not dynoed at Naylor's, it was dynoed at Frisco City, AL., by one of the best in the Southeast with the newest & latest dyno. It printed out 6 different sheets per pull & at best dyno it only made 947 hp. You can look at the graph and see how the line leveled out & that is how you can tell you got the tune up right and are getting all the available hp out of the engine. Like everything else I have said, this is backed up by documentation.(unlike Naylor, who only has lies & excuses)

I want to make it clear to everyone, I may not be rich but I have the money to put into my race car and like 99.99% of the rest of the racers on here, I have a credit card if it comes to a "must have part". I have a shop I special built for the race car with all the tools & equipment for the upkeep. I have a Dodge Ram 3500 Truck I pull the 40' gn trailer that I haul my race car & equipment in. So I hope this makes it clear, I am not to poor to buy things I need or want! If anyone wants, I will be happy to post pictures of these also.

What it boils down to is, I paid Naylor his asking price to build me a 1100+hp engine & I had to have repairs done to it before dynoed and it only made 947 hp & I feel Naylor should step up & stand behind his work. I tried to work with him but he would not work with me, he ignored me. He says he gave me a good deal, but if you buy an engine from him at his ad #1418969 and it does not make the 1000+hp, would you have gotten a good deal from him?? My upgraded engine has bigger heads & 32 more cu in than the engines in his ads & does not make 1000hp, so you know those engines will not make 1000hp.

[mrmopar622]

Hey Hammertime,
Can I ask you a question? I see where you use APD Race Engines, if you had them build you a 1100 hp engine and it did not make within 153 hp of it, what would APD and/or you do? Thanks

[hammertime]

Hey Hammertime,
Can I ask you a question? I see where you use APD Race Engines, if you had them build you a 1100 hp engine and it did not make within 153 hp of it, what would APD and/or you do? Thanks


I wouldn't care what it made on a dyno, nor should you, you should care what it runs like on a track... IMO dyno's are for breaking engines in and trying to see gains with changes while on them.

I can tell you for 100% sure, I've seen over 150 difference from one dyno to another. I can also tell you this, its easy to make a dyno read less or more power with a flip of a switch. Another thing to remember, when a different engine shop dyno's a different shops engine, this is usually when you see very low #'s.

I don't want you to take that or this the wrong way, maybe you should be concerned but this is why you have the shop who built the engine also dyno the engine. 99% of engine shops out there are not going to trust anyone other dyno # and I wouldn't either as they are to easy to fool.

There is a very slim chance that engine is only making 950hp. Id like to know what type of car, details (the rest of drive train info, weight, gear, tire, fuel) and what it has ran so far ?

[mrmopar622]

I will have to disagree with you on the dyno. The dyno is a very valuable tool to use with a new engine. It not only helps to break the engine in and make sure there is no mistakes, but it is also very useful to tune the engine to get maximum hp & torque out of it. This information is useful in helping you set your car up. The torque convertor is what can make or kill ET. If you can provide a torque convertor company with copies of your dyno sheets weight of car type of trans rear gear & tire size, just about all of the good companies can build you a good convertor. Your dyno sheets can also help you select the optimum rear gear ratio. Also, if you know the hp & weight of your car you can get a good idea of what the car is supposed ET, if it does not do that you know you are losing available hp somewhere. I know there are gonna be dishonest engine builders who will calibrate their dynos to show 100-150 hp more, but the torque of the engine is what calculates your hp that is why I included the graph. You can compare the torque to the hp and do the math on them and that will tell you if the hp is correct or not.

I guess back in the dinosaur days of dyno there may have been a big variable between one dyno to the other. But now days with the modern dynos if the operators keep them calibrated you find very little hp difference from one to the other & that very little difference will be from the load percentage they set the dyno up to put on the engine. The man that dynoed my engine used to work with Gene Fulton. He just bought a brand new state-of-the-art dyno this year. The people from Stuska Dynamometers had just come back & made sure the calibrations were correct after 100 dyno pulls when he started on mine it had 110 pulls & when he finished, it had 120 pulls. He does all his dyno pulls with an 18% load on the engine, this is more or less the standard that most all engine builders use. This is the percentage load Gene Fulton, Sonny Leonard, Shafiroff, Reher-Morrison all dyno their engines at. The recommended dyno load is 10-20%. That is why I chose the very best person with the very best dyno equipment to dyno the engine, I wanted exact numbers.

You asked about my car, it is a rear engine dragster. It should weigh around 1800 pounds with the BBC engine & myself included. It has an ATI MRT Treemaster Convertor, ATI Glide with 4:29 rear gears, Goodyear 34.5x17-16 rear tires. In the picture I will post for you it had a 572 cu in all aluminum Indy Mopar engine. The dyno sheet from Indy said 958 hp @7200 rpm with 1-4 barrel on gas. I put a Tunnelram with 2 Terminators on alcohol on it, that should have given the engine another 75-80 hp. It run 4.64-4.68 in the eighth mile.
http://imageshack.us/a/img10/1646/mmp10jpg.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img202/9653/mmp01jpg.jpg

[mrmopar622]

Now you can understand why I paid Naylor to build me a 1100+hp engine. My Mopar engine should have been 1000 hp engine with the Tunnelram on alcohol. Instead of having an engine making 100 more hp I have one making about 50 less hp.

At the least the heads are going to have to come back off and I am going to have to pay someone else to preform the work that Naylor should have done. Naylor put a Comp Cams CB 1719B/1291B with a 285 intake 296 exhaust duration .824 intake .785 exhaust camshaft in the engine. I have had several engine builders tell me that is the size camshaft they use in their 555-565 engine and my 632 cu in engine needs a bigger camshaft. The camshaft may not be a big deal if I have enough piston to valve clearance, if not that means the pistons must come out & be notched.

The best I can hope for if the pistons do not require notching is only having to spend another $2,000.00 to get the engine in a power range that I can live with and I think everyone knows what the additional cost will run into if the pistons have to come out.

[shawnp]

I have never taken a motor to the dyno because we don't race on a dyno. I have seen the guys come out and tell me what the dyno said they made and I know it was better than what my motor put out. The ET slip said I had the better motor on track. As for dyno variances, yes they are better than the old days but I have seen the big number swing. Each dyno is different and will put out different numbers.

If you are basing your deal off the dyno number alone, the only fair thing to do is for Naylor to agree to step up and run the dyno. If it is sub par as to the agreement, then he should correct it. If it meets or is near the expected number, you have some apologies to make. Pretty simple solution.

[mrmopar622]

I have never taken a motor to the dyno because we don't race on a dyno. I have seen the guys come out and tell me what the dyno said they made and I know it was better than what my motor put out. The ET slip said I had the better motor on track. As for dyno variances, yes they are better than the old days but I have seen the big number swing. Each dyno is different and will put out different numbers.

If you are basing your deal off the dyno number alone, the only fair thing to do is for Naylor to agree to step up and run the dyno. If it is sub par as to the agreement, then he should correct it. If it meets or is near the expected number, you have some apologies to make. Pretty simple solution.

That sounds fair to me, we can take the engine back to where I had it dynoed and Jimmy Naylor can add his input & see the results or he & I can both pick some neutral sites & let you the people determine who does the dyno pulls with Jimmy & I both there.

If the engine makes close to the 1100 hp I will be more than happy to apologize to Jimmy & come on here & apologize to everyone else & pay not only for the dyno session but pay Jimmy for his time to come to it. If not Jimmy pays for the dyno session & he pays to have the engine corrected to make the 1100 hp that I paid for in the beginning.

[hammertime]

But I think the downside for Naylor no matter what now ... you posted the copy of the bill online after he gave you a good deal, now all his customers want the same deal. What would you do in his shoes ??

Put in the car as is .. race it and see what it goes.

[mrmopar622]

But I think the downside for Naylor no matter what now ... you posted the copy of the bill online after he gave you a good deal, now all his customers want the same deal. What would you do in his shoes ??

Put in the car as is .. race it and see what it goes.

Are you serious?? You are joking right??!!
Do you NOT see I paid Naylor his asking price to build me an 1100+hp engine? Do you NOT see the dyno results - 947 hp that's no where near the 1100+hp?!? Just how many people do you think will want THAT same deal? I asked you on a previous post what do you think APD Racing Engines, the ones posted in your signature, would do if you had them to build you a 1100+ hp engine and it only made 947 hp, would you be happy? Do you think they would step up & make it right or tell you got a good enough deal?

You asked what would I do in his shoes - I'll tell you what I'd do - I would step up & do the right thing, the same thing any other honest business owner would do. I would do whatever it took to make the engine produce 1100+ hp as I promised, or I would talk to my customer & try to reach some form of reimbursement for what I did not deliver.
If Naylor did this, don't you think this would be a better way for his potential customers to see he is a man of his word and reliable to do business with? I can't see where anyone, after seeing all this documentation, would want to do business with a man like him.

[bixblk]

Here is my opinion, and how I see this. If the motor was not dynoed at Naylors and in fact it had some potential problems as stated by the buyer, than reguardless of the dyno number, he did not get what he paid for. If the dyno number is important to the buyer and the motor was advertised as producing the HP number advertised, than the builder should back up that claim.
Do HP numbers vary and can they vary from one dyno to another, yep for sure.
Dynos are used as a tool to help break in motor and dynamically check the engine out. They are also a great tool to baseline and get an understanding of the engine power.
Will it give you an ET, nope, will it give you an idea if you should be faster, possibly !!
That all being said, taking all this info at stated as being correct, I think the buyer is being patient and seems to be adressing this properly.
I do feel that Naylor should try and make a little more effort to help this situation out. Even if its just calling the buyer or posting clear honest info.
As we know bad news travels "faster" than good news.
And I can tell you that with out "dyno Results" :)
Take care JMO

[zipper06]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fuel system. I do not do carberated systems and haven't for years. but on any injection engine it doesn't take a dyno to tune, be it stacks, terminators, hat's ot blowers, it's all easier than tripping over a log. You never mentioned if it's alcohol engine or gas engine in your post :?: so i can't compare, i do have a few friends that run gas with b/blks that run 4.50's on gas none are 632's, mostly 572's, i also have friends that run 4.80's with small blks on alcohol @ 1800 lbs. It take 950 HP to run 4.60 @ 1800 lbs, but you never said what you wanted to run. If you had a Mopar alum. at 1800 lbs and it ran 4.64, you just added 100 lbs with the 632 steel blk. Like i said i don't have a dog in this fight, but no one i know has ever had an engine dyno'ed and we tune them our self at the track.
Now i do agree with you if Naylor said it will produse 1100 HP on a dyno, it should be dam close to those #'s, however i've never been in that situation, so i chose to not take sides.

JMO

Zip.

[hammertime]

I was joking .... you took it to another shop to dyno it, end of story... Dyno #'s are easily fudged, id have ZERO issues buying a engine from Naylor from what I've seen here ... sorry but I've seen it time and time again ... dyno's can different that much and more, simple as that. Im done with this topic now .. enjoy

[Scooterz]

I have no dog in this one either like Zip says. Maybe my thinking may be oversimplified due to my lack-of-knowledge about dynos, pricing & building race motors. But......

I do believe that a man should do what he says he is going to do however. If the motor cannot make reasonably close HP as agreed (including +/- dyno variance) why should buyer be satisfied @ 947HP even if the motor cost $1.00??

That said.....

It is really no different than how my company builds bows. Our dyno is a "chronograph" instead. We advertise a speed on each model based on an industry standard ("IBO" 30"/70lbs @ 5grns per lb & +/- 8 FPS). If a bow does not make speed within 8FPS, it is taken apart, tuned, rebuilt etc.... until it does... period. The motor may be a good deal @ the price; but it is not the deal buyer signed up for.

In spite of that......

Disputes arise in everyone's equipment/measuring with chronographs, scales, dynos, etc... but 143HP variance is BIG ... that is 13% less HP than advertised.

My Opinion: If an acceptable dyno variance is say 4 to 5%, then seller should compensate for the lost 8 or 9% agreed HP to buyer for example.

Am I oversimplifying this situation?? Am I missing something?

[mrmopar622]

I was joking .... you took it to another shop to dyno it, end of story... Dyno #'s are easily fudged, id have ZERO issues buying a engine from Naylor from what I've seen here ... sorry but I've seen it time and time again ... dyno's can different that much and more, simple as that. Im done with this topic now .. enjoy

Did you not read anything??? Did you not get the part where Naylor guaranteed a 1100+hp engine??? Did you not see what Naylor's mechanics told me when I went up there to see what was going on after 12 weeks??? They told me the brake was not working on the dyno & there had not been any engines dynoed since they had been there. When I confronted Jimmy on the phone he said they did not know what they were talking about(his own mechanics that work for him) He also said there was no need for me to worry about the dyno because he was not going to dyno it anyway because he did not include it in the price(invoice) & he was not doing it anyway.

NOW IT SHOULD BE CRYSTAL CLEAR WHY I HAD TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GET THE DYNO DONE!!!

If you are so sure or anyone else that thinks the dyno results I posted will be 150 hp difference at another reputable shop & would like to make a nice bet I'll be happy to take em up on it. We can put the money up & meet at Pro Line Racing Engines in Atlanta, GA or Huntsville Engines in Huntsville, AL. Both of these are well known & their reputation is second to none!

If after all the proof not talk I have posted about Naylor and after you take a trip down & check out Naylor's outdated shop & lack of equipment, if you still wish to buy from him, knowing all this, be my guest!!

[mrmopar622]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fuel system. I do not do carberated systems and haven't for years. but on any injection engine it doesn't take a dyno to tune, be it stacks, terminators, hat's ot blowers, it's all easier than tripping over a log. You never mentioned if it's alcohol engine or gas engine in your post :?: so i can't compare, i do have a few friends that run gas with b/blks that run 4.50's on gas none are 632's, mostly 572's, i also have friends that run 4.80's with small blks on alcohol @ 1800 lbs. It take 950 HP to run 4.60 @ 1800 lbs, but you never said what you wanted to run. If you had a Mopar alum. at 1800 lbs and it ran 4.64, you just added 100 lbs with the 632 steel blk. Like i said i don't have a dog in this fight, but no one i know has ever had an engine dyno'ed and we tune them our self at the track.
Now i do agree with you if Naylor said it will produse 1100 HP on a dyno, it should be dam close to those #'s, however i've never been in that situation, so i chose to not take sides.

JMO

Zip.
Hi Zip,
I run 2 #1055(1475 cfm each) Ron's Terminators. I use the gray combination barrel valve & shutoff valve, I just had Jeremy at Ron's resize my pump up from 1/2 to a #1. The throttle response is unreal & you no longer have any cooling problems. As you know alcohol burns cooler so you can use a step hotter plug and make more power on the dyno after we got a baseline tune we pulled the AR3934 plugs out and put a set of AR3933 and it lost 11 hp on the dyno.

What some people don't understand about my reasons for the dyno is I wanted at least a 1100 hp engine and Naylor said with the Tunnelram on alcohol it would make 1140-1160 hp easy. So after paying a business to build me a 1100+hp engine not just an engine, I wanted to make sure I got what I paid for.

I've had a lot of people teach me how to run alcohol, if I can ever be of any help to you just let me know. Thanks

[proactionheads]

IF I WOULD HAVE GAVE HIM THE ENGINE HE WOULD HAVE BITCHED. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GET ON HERE DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIKE BILLY LOOK AT HIS PIC AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT YOU GET. I AM POSTING THE 1ST EST THAT I WROTE HIM AND IT HAS 1000-1050 H.P NOT 1100 HE HAD TOM PUT THAT ON HIS INVOICE BEFORE HE LEFT AND I TOLD HIM THAT IT WILL NOT MAKE THAT. THE ENGINE WILL MAKE 1050 H.P I HAVE A DYNO SHEET HERE FROM SOME ONE THAT HAS THE SAME ENGINE WITH ONE CARB SV1 AND IS ON Q-16 AND HE HAD HIS BUDDY DYNO HIS ENGINE NOT ME,IT TOOK ME A WEEK OR SO TO GET THIS FROM HIM.BILLY HAS A 632 WITH 15+ COMP AND MANLEY GAS PORTED PISTONS AND GOOD RING PACKAGE AND TWO RONS AKY WITH DART 415CC M HEADS WITH WORK ON THEM FOR (FREE)!!!! AND A COMP 4-7 SWAP CAM 285-296 318-337 ON A 112 WITH 800+ LIFT DO YOU THINK IT ONLY MADE 950 H.P COME ON WE ARE NOT THAT DUMB (BILLY) HEADS HAD NO WORK FROM DART NO SEAT WORK OR NOTHING!!! INTAKE IN THE PICS WERE DONE FOR (FREE)!!! AND WE DRILLED IT FOR RONS INJECTORS FOR (FREE)!!! IN THE ENGINE WORK BECAUSE I WAS DOING THE HEADS AND OTHER WORK FOR FREE HE SAID HE WAS IN NO RUSH,THIS WAS HIS LAST BUILD. I WOULD HAVE DYNO THIS ENGINE BUT HE HAD ALL MOPAR BRAKETS ,VAC PUMP PULLY,CARB LINKAGE ECT. HE WANTED ME TO TAKE A FULL DAY AND PUT ON FOR FREE WHEN DOES THE FREE STOP!!!! HE NEVER THANKED ME ONE TIME FOR ANY THING JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!! I TRIED TO SELL HIM THE SHORT BLOCK LOOK AT THE INVOICE ON HERE AT A DAM GOOD DEAL TO GET HIM OFF MY BACK, NO HE WANTED THE COMPLETE ENGINE BECAUSE HE SAW THE GREAT DEAL HE WAS GETTING, LOOK ON HERE AND SEE IF ANY ONE WILL BUILD THAT ENGINE FOR THAT PRICE.WELL EVERY ONE THANK BILLY FOR MESSING IT UP FOR ALL THE OHER GOOD RACERS.

[TheRabbit]

IF I WOULD HAVE GAVE HIM THE ENGINE HE WOULD HAVE BITCHED. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GET ON HERE DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIKE BILLY LOOK AT HIS PIC AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT YOU GET. I AM POSTING THE 1ST EST THAT I WROTE HIM AND IT HAS 1000-1050 H.P NOT 1100 HE HAD TOM PUT THAT ON HIS INVOICE BEFORE HE LEFT AND I TOLD HIM THAT IT WILL NOT MAKE THAT. THE ENGINE WILL MAKE 1050 H.P I HAVE A DYNO SHEET HERE FROM SOME ONE THAT HAS THE SAME ENGINE WITH ONE CARB SV1 AND IS ON Q-16 AND HE HAD HIS BUDDY DYNO HIS ENGINE NOT ME,IT TOOK ME A WEEK OR SO TO GET THIS FROM HIM.BILLY HAS A 632 WITH 15+ COMP AND MANLEY GAS PORTED PISTONS AND GOOD RING PACKAGE AND TWO RONS AKY WITH DART 415CC M HEADS WITH WORK ON THEM FOR (FREE)!!!! AND A COMP 4-7 SWAP CAM 285-296 318-337 ON A 112 WITH 800+ LIFT DO YOU THINK IT ONLY MADE 950 H.P COME ON WE ARE NOT THAT DUMB (BILLY) HEADS HAD NO WORK FROM DART NO SEAT WORK OR NOTHING!!! INTAKE IN THE PICS WERE DONE FOR (FREE)!!! AND WE DRILLED IT FOR RONS INJECTORS FOR (FREE)!!! IN THE ENGINE WORK BECAUSE I WAS DOING THE HEADS AND OTHER WORK FOR FREE HE SAID HE WAS IN NO RUSH,THIS WAS HIS LAST BUILD. I WOULD HAVE DYNO THIS ENGINE BUT HE HAD ALL MOPAR BRAKETS ,VAC PUMP PULLY,CARB LINKAGE ECT. HE WANTED ME TO TAKE A FULL DAY AND PUT ON FOR FREE WHEN DOES THE FREE STOP!!!! HE NEVER THANKED ME ONE TIME FOR ANY THING JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!! I TRIED TO SELL HIM THE SHORT BLOCK LOOK AT THE INVOICE ON HERE AT A DAM GOOD DEAL TO GET HIM OFF MY BACK, NO HE WANTED THE COMPLETE ENGINE BECAUSE HE SAW THE GREAT DEAL HE WAS GETTING, LOOK ON HERE AND SEE IF ANY ONE WILL BUILD THAT ENGINE FOR THAT PRICE.WELL EVERY ONE THANK BILLY FOR MESSING IT UP FOR ALL THE OHER GOOD RACERS.

[zipper06]

(quote)
Hi Zip,
I run 2 #1055(1475 cfm each) Ron's Terminators. I use the gray combination barrel valve & shutoff valve, I just had Jeremy at Ron's resize my pump up from 1/2 to a #1. The throttle response is unreal & you no longer have any cooling problems. As you know alcohol burns cooler so you can use a step hotter plug and make more power on the dyno after we got a baseline tune we pulled the AR3934 plugs out and put a set of AR3933 and it lost 11 hp on the dyno.

What some people don't understand about my reasons for the dyno is I wanted at least a 1100 hp engine and Naylor said with the Tunnelram on alcohol it would make 1140-1160 hp easy. So after paying a business to build me a 1100+hp engine not just an engine, I wanted to make sure I got what I paid for.

I've had a lot of people teach me how to run alcohol, if I can ever be of any help to you just let me know. Thanks

I've been running alcohol since the early 80's in everything from blown 540's to blown sm/blks'
I also run a rons injection on my 377" motor right now, you definately did the right thing by changing the pump to a -1, although i don't run Ron's pumps, i use DSR or Enderle pumps. I run a -1 on anything larger than 400 cu in and on the blower motors i use an Enderle 110 or 990 At this time i have 4 fuel pumps in my shop.
My first blower motor was running in 1964 a blown sm/blk on gas (the only one on gas that i've ever ran) and i've ran everything from Top Alcohol funny car on down, but no dragsters at all. I'm a big fan of stacks injection, but as i said they are all easy to tune, yes the plugs play a big factor in alcohol, mostly i run NGK, but i also use autolite plugs in the range you mentioned.
The terminators are a good choice, next and maybe better IMO is stacks
You want to buy a nice set of polished 3" Kinsler stacks for that engine already setup for alcohol.

Just kiddin they are not for sale, i've been thinking about building a 565 or 572 BB for my very heavy Malibu.

Zip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/zipper2/100_0934.jpg

[mrmopar622]

IF I WOULD HAVE GAVE HIM THE ENGINE HE WOULD HAVE BITCHED. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GET ON HERE DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIKE BILLY LOOK AT HIS PIC AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT YOU GET. I AM POSTING THE 1ST EST THAT I WROTE HIM AND IT HAS 1000-1050 H.P NOT 1100 HE HAD TOM PUT THAT ON HIS INVOICE BEFORE HE LEFT AND I TOLD HIM THAT IT WILL NOT MAKE THAT. THE ENGINE WILL MAKE 1050 H.P I HAVE A DYNO SHEET HERE FROM SOME ONE THAT HAS THE SAME ENGINE WITH ONE CARB SV1 AND IS ON Q-16 AND HE HAD HIS BUDDY DYNO HIS ENGINE NOT ME,IT TOOK ME A WEEK OR SO TO GET THIS FROM HIM.BILLY HAS A 632 WITH 15+ COMP AND MANLEY GAS PORTED PISTONS AND GOOD RING PACKAGE AND TWO RONS AKY WITH DART 415CC M HEADS WITH WORK ON THEM FOR (FREE)!!!! AND A COMP 4-7 SWAP CAM 285-296 318-337 ON A 112 WITH 800+ LIFT DO YOU THINK IT ONLY MADE 950 H.P COME ON WE ARE NOT THAT DUMB (BILLY) HEADS HAD NO WORK FROM DART NO SEAT WORK OR NOTHING!!! INTAKE IN THE PICS WERE DONE FOR (FREE)!!! AND WE DRILLED IT FOR RONS INJECTORS FOR (FREE)!!! IN THE ENGINE WORK BECAUSE I WAS DOING THE HEADS AND OTHER WORK FOR FREE HE SAID HE WAS IN NO RUSH,THIS WAS HIS LAST BUILD. I WOULD HAVE DYNO THIS ENGINE BUT HE HAD ALL MOPAR BRAKETS ,VAC PUMP PULLY,CARB LINKAGE ECT. HE WANTED ME TO TAKE A FULL DAY AND PUT ON FOR FREE WHEN DOES THE FREE STOP!!!! HE NEVER THANKED ME ONE TIME FOR ANY THING JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!! I TRIED TO SELL HIM THE SHORT BLOCK LOOK AT THE INVOICE ON HERE AT A DAM GOOD DEAL TO GET HIM OFF MY BACK, NO HE WANTED THE COMPLETE ENGINE BECAUSE HE SAW THE GREAT DEAL HE WAS GETTING, LOOK ON HERE AND SEE IF ANY ONE WILL BUILD THAT ENGINE FOR THAT PRICE.WELL EVERY ONE THANK BILLY FOR MESSING IT UP FOR ALL THE OHER GOOD RACERS.

Again nothing but lies from Jimmy Naylor. Everyone can look at the first & final invoice and see where he stated 1100+hp. Jimmy, you damn liar, anyone can look at the first invoice-which you yourself sent & final invoice and see that they are both original. Again by documentation I have proved you LIED.
Again he is talking about the Mopar parts, as I stated in an earlier post I bought everything from that scammer & liar. You can see the additional parts list. The Terminators only had to be bolted to the intake, as the vacuum pump and fuel pump...a 4500 series carb is just that, they bolt to 4500 series intakes, now I don't know where the hell he came up with Mopar carbs when they are nothing more than just simple carbs. Just more lies & excuses from Jimmy.
I called Naylor's when we found the engine was not oiling to the rocker arms and where the 2 intake gaskets they used instead of using a proper thickness gasket, one had slipped and water was leaking into the lifter galley. POOR WORKMANSHIP FROM NAYLOR'S.
I was sure he would not only want to know of the mistake made but would be happy to reimburse me for the additional work to correct their mistakes. He only asked what do you want me to do about it, I told him I thought he should pay for the repairs and he said I ain't paying for nothing.
As everyone can see I have been more than patient, I have provided all this information posted on here. He would not answer the phone & talk, or return any emails.
Is this the way a business is supposed to be run? You tell a man what you want built and you pay him his asking price and when you get it, it is not what you paid for. I would expect and think any honest businessman, when he delivered something to a customer and it was not right the first thing they would be interested in would be making it right.
As a matter of fact, another businessman who posted on an above post stated that if the product was not within the standards, the product did not leave their shop until it met the standard. Should that not be the way all businesses are run?
Am I missing something? Is Naylor offering to make his work right or anything? All I'm seeing from him is excuses and lie after lie.
Jimmy Naylor is doing nothing but running a scam and taking advantage of racers.

Jimmy Naylor - why don't you post a picture of your shop - inside & outside, show everyone what you have/don't have!! Have you even put up a sign yet?? You are a disgrace to all the honest engine builders & racers on this site because of you we can not trust anyone!

If all this info with documentation to back it up is not enough to deter people from doing business with Naylor(Pro Action Heads) Racing, before you send him a deposit(he will ask for half and will not refund it) go to his shop(if you can find it) and take a tour - you'll understand what I'm telling you.

This is all that really needs saying. Jimmy Naylor as you & everyone else can see the engine I paid you the money to build is not right.
ARE YOU GONNA STEP UP AND AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT OR CONTINUE TO TELL LIES & MAKE EXCUSES?

[shawnp]

Sounds like Naylor did a lot of work at no cost? Is that correct?

Sounds like the original agreement was no hurry to have it done? Is that correct?

Was there a dyno session that was to be done at Naylor's?

[mrmopar622]

Sounds like Naylor did a lot of work at no cost? Is that correct?

Sounds like the original agreement was no hurry to have it done? Is that correct?

Was there a dyno session that was to be done at Naylor's?

Your first question - go back and look at the invoice I posted, that was the price for a COMPLETE engine. Do you see any proof from Naylor where he did any free work?

Your second question - Do you really think any racer with money in hand during racing season would not want their engine done in a timely agreed upon time frame. I posted the invoices where you can see the promise 5-6 weeks max ended up being 14 weeks, til after 6 weeks completion time I did not pressure or question them in fact if was 8 weeks before I questioned them about the engine being finished. I have documentation.
Did you not read where after 12 weeks of calling & getting the run around I went up to Naylor Racing Engines shop & true to Tom & the mechanics word Jimmy was not there, he was not there very much of the time, this was said by his own employees.
Jimmy was supposed to call me Monday morning after waiting til about 3:00 pm I called & spoke with Jimmy, NOW MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS, I TOLD JIMMY THE ENGINE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE AFTER 5-6 WEEKS & IT HAD NOW BEEN 12 WEEKS(3 MONTHS) TWICE AS LONG AS THE PROMISED COMPLETION DATE. HE SAID IT IS NOT IN WRITING ANYWHERE ON THE INVOICE HE HAD BEEN THROUGH THIS WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND HIS FATHER WAS A MILITARY LAWYER & HE KNEW HE COULD TAKE AS LONG AS HE WANTED & THERE WAS NOTHING ANYONE COULD DO.(PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEXT SENTENCE) AS I HAD SAID BEFORE I HAD ACCIDENTALLY TAPED THIS CONVERSATION THE NEXT MORNING I TOOK IT TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AFTER LISTENING TO THE TAPE(WHICH THE POLICE DEPT. STILL HAS A COPY OF AS WELL AS I) HE SAID I COULD PRESS CHARGES AND HAVE HIM ARRESTED AND IT WOULD TAKE ABOUT 6 MONTHS BEFORE HIS TRIAL AND IF HE RECEIVED JAIL TIME THERE WAS A GOOD CHANCE MY ENGINE WOULD STILL NOT BE COMPLETED OR HE COULD HAVE THE DETECTIVE CALL NAYLOR & IF THEY WERE NOT WILLING TO MEET A DELIVERY COMPLETION THEN PRESS CHARGES. THE DETECTIVE WENT BACK INTO HIS OFFICE SO THEIR CONVERSATION COULD BE TAPED & WHEN HE CAME BACK HE SAID NAYLOR PROMISED THEY WOULD HAVE THE ENGINE READY FOR PICK UP IN 2 WEEKS. I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS SURE HE SAID CALL THEM YOURSELF & SEE WHAT THEY TELL YOU I MADE THE CALL & SPOKE WITH TOM & HE TOLD ME THE ENGINE WOULD BE COMPLETE IN 2 WEEKS.
WHAT I HAVE SAID IS DOCUMENTED & WHAT JIMMY NAYLOR SAYS IS BS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE HE HAS SAID.
DOES THIS NOT CLEAR UP THE DELIVERY TIME - IT WAS AGREED UPON IN THE VERY BEGINNING FOR A 5-6 WEEK MAX TURN AROUND IN OTHER WORDS HELL NO NOT AT NO TIME NOT EVER DID I TELL JIMMY NAYLOR OR ANYONE OF HIS EMPLOYEES I WAS NOT IN ANY RUSH, TO TAKE THEIR TIME, JUST THE OPPOSITE!!

As for the third question - go back & re-read the posts, that will answer your question.

As you can see on my last post, I asked Jimmy Naylor to cease all the BS, lies & excuses and step up & make things right.

Shouldn't that be the next question? Why are there no answers coming from Jimmy Naylor?

[shawnp]

I can't see your invoices here at work due to the site that they are hosted on. All I see are red X's.

I am asking a few simple questions, I don't need the rant. Everyone is pretty clear about the invoice you mention in every post that turns out to be a short novel. Can you just answer the questions without explanaitions? Better yet, take time to read your own posts. People have been trying to help you out but all you want to do is answer questions with rants and bitch to them instead of giving clear, simple answers. Step back, stop the rants and the finger pointing in every damn post and give clear, simple answers to questions people have asked.

[mrmopar622]

I appreciate any & all help I thought I was not only answering your questions but providing the proof to back it up.

Sorry I did not get it right the 1st time, will try again:

Question 1 - NO
Question 2 - NO
Question 3 - YES

Hope this is more to your satisfaction. Thanks

[shawnp]

Now that is pretty simple facts.

Can Naylor show that he did additional work that the customer was not charged for? Can they show that there was not a time period in which the motor was to be completed by? Can they explain why the dyno session was not completed?


Has all the necessary work been done to repair what was wrong when your dyno guy tore it down? Did you take pics of the problems?

[Scooterz]

Shawn is right. Your upset. Worse, you believe that you have been taken advantage of & your patience is running thin. Take a moment to look at this situation from the forum users who are following the 3+ pages of detailed events & info.

That said: I waited a long time before I posted for a reason. I have seen your invoices, correspondence/documentation, etc... & watched Naylor/proactions responses. I am not real impressed. It is buisness... just saying that "he would bitch if we gave it to him for free" is not addressing the issue.

What are the issues??? Corrections to fix/agreement???? If they are saying Billy is SOL...??? be a man & say we are standing behind everything & we are done.

Bring everyone back to the main issues, here is what I see... I could have missed a few things... I am not sure.

1. Int. gasket leaked; rocker/lube not correct & water leaking. True/false? Should this be corrected/compensated?

2. Stated/agreed build to be "1100" or "1050" what is it??... motor made 947HP on dyno. True/false?
Should this be corrected/compensated?

3. Motor took double+ the agreed time to make. (even though this is common with race motors)... what is fair??? Here is what was said about that: "JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!!"

4. HERE IS MY QUESTION: If a guy gets a "great deal" or any "free work" does that mean that he should wait double the time, be responsible for workmanship errors, or tolerate less performance???? If so, I WOULD RATHER PAY THE EXTRA 3 GRAND!!!!!! Jeeez... it is a race engine... there are some serious expectations... we are passionate about our rides.

[mrmopar622]

Now that is pretty simple facts.


I took questions directed to Naylor off, waiting for reply from him.

Has all the necessary work been done to repair what was wrong when your dyno guy tore it down? Did you take pics of the problems?

YES gaskets & labor $348.76 have receipt

No I did not think about taking pictures.

[mrmopar622]

Shawn is right. Your upset. Worse, you believe that you have been taken advantage of & your patience is running thin. Take a moment to look at this situation from the forum users who are following the 3+ pages of detailed events & info.

That said: I waited a long time before I posted for a reason. I have seen your invoices, correspondence/documentation, etc... & watched Naylor/proactions responses. I am not real impressed. It is buisness... just saying that "he would bitch if we gave it to him for free" is not addressing the issue.

What are the issues??? Corrections to fix/agreement???? If they are saying Billy is SOL...??? be a man & say we are standing behind everything & we are done.

Bring everyone back to the main issues, here is what I see... I could have missed a few things... I am not sure.

1. Int. gasket leaked; rocker/lube not correct & water leaking. True/false? Should this be corrected/compensated?

2. Stated/agreed build to be "1100" or "1050" what is it??... motor made 947HP on dyno. True/false?
Should this be corrected/compensated?

3. Motor took double+ the agreed time to make. (even though this is common with race motors)... what is fair??? Here is what was said about that: "JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!!"

4. HERE IS MY QUESTION: If a guy gets a "great deal" or any "free work" does that mean that he should wait double the time, be responsible for workmanship errors, or tolerate less performance???? If so, I WOULD RATHER PAY THE EXTRA 3 GRAND!!!!!! Jeeez... it is a race engine... there are some serious expectations... we are passionate about our rides.
1. True corrected cost was $348.76 I think I should be reimbursed.

2. The agreed build was for 1100+hp on June 28, 2012; TRUE on the dyno the engine made 947 hp have dyno sheets posted; I think I should be compensated for the lack of 153 hp or the necessary work done to engine to bring it to the agreed 1100+hp

3. BITCHED - NO - asked in a professional manor when engine would be finished.

4. NO FREE WORK

Now I think it is Jimmy's turn to reply.

[TheRabbit]

Not to get away from Scotter's questions, but here on my thoughts.
First it was a bad mistake taking the engine without being dynoed. I've had it takes 6 months to build a motor that was suppose to be 10-12 weeks tops. Yea, it's crappy, but it happens all the time buy builders.

The minute you take it away it's yours "as is". It's a racing motor no way would I warranty it either. IF it had been started at builders shop I'm sure he would have fixed it and or any other issues.
As for the dyno results. I've seen first pulls 150+hp less than final tune. I've seen different hp results with same motor on different dynos on the same day so I don't put much into the dyno results in this case.
I would have made it clear up front that my motor be run on the dyno!! A new build should always be run if for nothing else to get a base tune and make sure there are no problems. I'v seen all kinds of stuff go wrong on the dyno including burnt pushrods, broken lifters, etc.

By looking at parts used ( heads, wet sump, etc) I seriously doubt that combination could make 1,100hp. If so It would be a MAX effort build, This was not. I would have questioned that in the beginning.

If I were the builder I seriously doubt I would pay for repairs that another shop did such as the intake gasket. IF I HAD NO DOUBT THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM is the only way I would consider it. Again dyno at his shop would have found this.


It's my personal experience that you get more out of people by being patient with them. Even when I get pissed I wait until I have my motor before I vent on them. Nothing wrong with pushing a little, but to much and this is what you end up with.

Here we sit with a customer that feels he got shorted and mislead on a motor and the builder already feels that he has gone above and beyond what customer paid for and agreed too.

I really can't say unless I was there and heard the conversation or was able to sit with both and discuss it with them.

I would have NEVER taken it before it was dynoed!!

That's my personal feelings and doesn't mean a hill of beans so don't take it personal.


** I don't dyno my current motor every time we freshen it, but I have been with my builder for a long time. He travels with me and is one of my sponsors. He has a lot of interest and involvement in my truck***

[mrmopar622]

Rabbit - Nothing personal here just a few questions.

At the beginning were you not the one that asked me to show PROOF.

When the Naylor invoice was posted were you not the 1st one to say "It says model #1100+hp".

Everything I have said on here, I have backed up with PROOF.

Don't you think it is time Jimmy Naylor backed up all his inconsistent BS with PROOF?

[mrmopar622]

Anyone who advertises/sales on Racing Junk who is not a reputable engine builder/businessman and does not stand behind their work should be banned. O True O False



Jimmy Naylor are you a Reputable Engine Builder/Businessman that stands behind your work? O YES O NO

[proactionheads]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.racingjunk.com/ui/4/77/28976774-446.jpg[/img] (http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.racingjunk.com/http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.racingjunk.com/http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.racingjunk.com/ui/3/71/28976713-700.jpg[/url]
http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.racingjunk.com/[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.racingjunk.com/ui/4/74/28976744-244.jpg

[proactionheads]

Will post dyno sheet, pictures of work and invoices once I can figure out how to upload them to this site.

[hammertime]

Will post dyno sheet, pictures of work and invoices once I can figure out how to upload them to this site.

[email protected] email them to me I can do it

[Scooterz]

I see there are many variables in this process & how results can vary- like Wabb sited. I also hear of almost every major build taking longer than anticipated too. But to me, it is a principle issue....

Billy started out pretty patient here; but got agitated by responses (or lack thereof) from the builder who can only offer statements like Billy is a "Bitcher" or complain about the great of a deal Billy got. Who cares how good of a deal he got???? He wanted what he was told he would get.... what he paid for. I assume the Builder is a big boy; maybe he shouldn't of offered the great deal in the first place??? Naylor shouldn't complain about what he CHOSE TO DO.

Billy has not done anything wrong here. He is not guilty of a capital punishment.... he paid the agreed price for something he was promised & expected it. I have asked this a few times... I mean this in all humility.... am I missing something here? Billy was asked to post proof.. he did. He has explained each issue... does not seem unreasonable to me??? Naylor has been defensive & insulting to Billy from the start. Perhaps Naylor is among the RACE MOTOR GODS & is exempt from regular business ethics???

[mrmopar622]

Will post dyno sheet, pictures of work and invoices once I can figure out how to upload them to this site.

[email protected] email them to me I can do it

If You Are Going To Volunteer To Post For People, You Should Do It In a Timely Manner!!

As You Can See, There Are Many Of Us Asking Questions Of Jimmy Naylor/Pro Action Heads/Naylor Racing That He Owes Us Answers To!!!

Our Patience Is Already Wearing Very Thin With NAYLOR, Now With YOU As Well!!!!

[shawnp]

Will post dyno sheet, pictures of work and invoices once I can figure out how to upload them to this site.

[email protected] email them to me I can do it

If You Are Going To Volunteer To Post For People, You Should Do It In a Timely Manner!!

As You Can See, There Are Many Of Us Asking Questions Of Jimmy Naylor/Pro Action Heads/Naylor Racing That He Owes Us Answers To!!!

Our Patience Is Already Wearing Very Thin With NAYLOR, Now With YOU As Well!!!!

Everyone understands you are frustrated but being a dick to Hammertime isn't going to get anything resolved. He offered to help Naylor get his stuff posted to show their side of the story. All he can do is wait to get it and post it just as soon as he can. Just the same as people posted info up for you as they got it and could.

[johnracer]

What shawnp said....

Question....has is been down the track yet? That would really tell the tale. As stated repeatedly before, we don't race dyno's and they're all different.

Here's an example...a guy I know has had a 968hp 565 and a 1101hp 588 from the same big name engine builder, dyno'd by them and he has the sheets. The car is a swing arm dragster, 1870lbs, and ran a best of 7.81 @ 171 at about 7800ft DA with the 565 and 7.61 @ 174, similar air, same track with the 588. Personally I think it should of picked up more than .2 and 3 mph for an additional 130hp and an additional $5k.......is it the dyno, the car, the combo, or just high expectations?

That being said, I wouldn't expect to get 1100hp for 12k regardless of what was said, written or assumed.....some smokin deals are just that, smoke......
Johnny

[hammertime]

Will post dyno sheet, pictures of work and invoices once I can figure out how to upload them to this site.

[email protected] email them to me I can do it

If You Are Going To Volunteer To Post For People, You Should Do It In a Timely Manner!!

As You Can See, There Are Many Of Us Asking Questions Of Jimmy Naylor/Pro Action Heads/Naylor Racing That He Owes Us Answers To!!!

Our Patience Is Already Wearing Very Thin With NAYLOR, Now With YOU As Well!!!!


I haven't seen it yet ... no reason to be a asshole to me ... Although a phone call with Naylor puts the other side of the story together ..
there is always 2 sides to the story and the truth but I still stand behind Id have zero issues of sending someone to him if they were close.

I dont race dyno's and apparently you think we should ??

[mrmopar622]

I haven't seen it yet ... no reason to be a ah to me ... Although a phone call with Naylor puts the other side of the story together ..
there is always 2 sides to the story and the truth but I still stand behind Id have zero issues of sending someone to him if they were close.

I dont race dyno's and apparently you think we should ??[/quote]


I have tried the phone calls, emails and even on here - no response.

I am not saying race dynos, but if you pay for an 1100+hp engine the dyno shows if you got an 1100 hp or not. All you have to do is check out the major race engine builders, they all come with the guaranteed dyno results, that's the way business is done. If Naylor was not willing to guarantee 1100+hp dyno results he should not have stated it to me & then put it on the invoice.

I am only trying to answer everyone's questions as honest and as best as I can. I wish I had the posting ability expertise that some of you trying to help have. If I have offended any of you trying to help I apologize because it was not intentional. I hope everyone will give me credit for trying to answer & comment on questions and not dodge and make excuses like Naylor. THANKS!

[hammertime]

[quote="mrmopar622"

All you have to do is check out the major race engine builders, they all come with the guaranteed dyno results![/quote]

Your right ... but thats off THEIR OWN DYNO.

[mrmopar622]

I have heard all to many times the rumors of happy dyno #, that is the question I asked Jimmy Naylor when he sent me the invoice with 1100+hp on it before making a deposit on it. Out of his own mouth, he guaranteed it to make 1100+hp on his dyno & any other reputable shop's dyno. Naylor is the one that backed out of dynoing his own engine. As you can see on an earlier post of his. I had a reputable shop dyno this engine as I have said in earlier posts, anyone who wants to put the money up that says the dyno # are not right, I'll match their money & give them a choice of ProLine Racing Engines in Atlanta, GA., or Huntsville Racing Engines in Huntsville, AL., and bring the engine & dyno results. These are 2 of the most respected shops in the Southeast if not the whole USA.

I do not want to make this into another short novel, is there anyone that races a dragster on here that knows anything about the T/D Class? If so, would you explain to the people what I have been unable to do about the difference between a 947 hp & an 1100 hp engine trying to make the field.

[zipper06]

As i've said before i don't have a dog in this fight, but your being relativly new to the forum before you started this post. Some the things you don't realize is that the people that are trying to help you actually run TD. They do not toot their own horn so i'll do it for them, David/Hammertime, and shawnp
both run TD, either one of them can run 7.50's and less and both have been in the winners circle many times i don't know how much HP they have and neither do they because they don't dyno their engines, Rabbit is a National record holder in mud racing, Tom the head huncho runs a Top Sportmans Camero that runs 7,80's BJ/ Brian the other Mod. has a 66 nove that will run 4.60's @ 3,000 lbs plus. What you need to realize is these people are trying to help you, so it's just wrong that you should critazise these people, me i'm old, i did this many yrs ago before some of these guys were even born. I set records in 1966 with my blown sm/blk car, raced all the top names in those days but now i've slowed down, to 5.60's in the 1/8 mi. but still feels as fast as 200 mph all those yrs. ago.
Just suggesting that you respect some of these guys opinions, they are not without merit, they know what's happening within the racing world and engine builds.

Enough said, before i piss someone off also.

Sorry friends i just had to defend you, after 6 yrs. on the forum i sometimes get carried away.

Zip.

[shawnp]

me i'm old, i did this many yrs ago before some of these guys were even born. I set records in 1966 with my blown sm/blk car

Damn Zip!!! How did you keep them wooden wheels hooked up??? :lol:


Happy New Year.

[hammertime]

Here is the info from Naylor .... I've heard his side of the story now too, 1050 to 1100 was with Brodix HH Heads and not the Darts that were used.

Original Estimate

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/Dragster387b/BillHumphreys600_zpsa51a7a13.jpg

2nd Estimate
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/Dragster387b/BillHumphreysSB_zpsfb86a1f3.jpg

Dyno Sheet to Similar Engine
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/Dragster387b/DynoSheet_zps233a11b5.jpg

[mrmopar622]

I'm going to try to redo this!http://imageshack.us/a/img404/7791/naylorchevyparts.jpg
][/img]http://imageshack.us/a/img819/5776/naylorinvoice.jpg
][/img]http://imageshack.us/a/img845/442/naylorfinalinvoice2.jpg
][/img]

On these in the right bottom you can see the attached to the invoice that is not present on Naylor's that is paid in full, look at model # - 1100+hp. As you can see, the original & the final paid invoice match. I do not know where he came up with that head hunter invoice but it was never sent to me. Naylor's is bogus.

I tape all my business phone calls for my own personal reference, so I have every phone conversation that transpired between us.

If someone can tell me how or just get me started on how to upload these tapes to youtube I will post them on here & when you all hear the 1st & 2nd tape between Jimmy Naylor & myself that will make everything clear.

[mrmopar622]

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/508/dynop1.jpg
This is page 1 of dyno sheets


As you can see, this is the way a real dyno sheet should read out. It should show the average 3 best pulls. I will put the graph from the pulls in the next section. Any dyno operator can look & compare the graphs to determine if the numbers are exact. As you notice, Naylor did not include that on his.

But he did prove what I have been telling him & everyone on here - a 632 cu in should make 1000-1050 hp easy with 1 four barrel. My engine has a Tunnelram & made a best of 947 hp at 6400 rpm, anything over 6400 rpm the horsepower starts dropping off. That means there is a problem somewhere, something is NOT right, that is what I have been trying to get Naylor to address.

[mrmopar622]

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/7622/dynop2.jpg
This is the graph from dyno sheet


The graph tells the story It clearly shows a best of only 947 hp, something is not right and Naylor needs to address it, that is what I have been trying to get across to everyone.

[Harbone]

I tape all my business phone calls for my own personal reference, so I have every phone conversation that transpired between us.

If someone can tell me how or just get me started on how to upload these tapes to youtube I will post them on here & when you all hear the 1st & 2nd tape between Jimmy Naylor & myself that will make everything clear.

I dont know if I would do that, do believe its illegal to record phone conversations with out the other person knowing about it, just saying...

[hammertime]

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/508/dynop1.jpg
This is page 1 of dyno sheets


As you can see, this is the way a real dyno sheet should read out. It should show the average 3 best pulls. I will put the graph from the pulls in the next section. Any dyno operator can look & compare the graphs to determine if the numbers are exact. As you notice, Naylor did not include that on his.

But he did prove what I have been telling him & everyone on here - a 632 cu in should make 1000-1050 hp easy with 1 four barrel. My engine has a Tunnelram & made a best of 947 hp at 6400 rpm, anything over 6400 rpm the horsepower starts dropping off. That means there is a problem somewhere, something is NOT right, that is what I have been trying to get Naylor to address.



PUT IT IN THE CAR ... IF ITS SLOW THEN BITCH .. IF NOT YOU BETTER SAY OPPS ...
UNLESS IT WAS DYNO'D AT THE ORGINAL ENGINE BUILDER IT MEANS ZIP ZERO NOTHING TO THAT ENGINE BUILDER ... I GUESS YOU CAN NOT GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, DYNO # CAN MOVE 100-200 HP FROM ONE DYNO TO THE NEXT ... YOUR DYNO #S MEAN NOTHING TO ME OR ANYONE THAT HAS BEEN ON SEVERAL DIFFERENT DYNO'S ... End of story ...

[hammertime]

I also have seen only 1 other dyno sheet like yours and I setup converters and carbs for customers off dyno sheets all the time. 99% of the time they look just like the one I posted for Naylor .. just sayin

[mrmopar622]

IF I WOULD HAVE GAVE HIM THE ENGINE HE WOULD HAVE BITCHED. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GET ON HERE DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIKE BILLY LOOK AT HIS PIC AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT YOU GET. E THAT. THE ENGINE WILL MAKE 1050 H.P I HAVE A DYNO SHEET HERE I AM POSTING THE 1ST EST THAT I WROTE HIM AND IT HAS 1000-1050 H.P NOT 1100 HE HAD TOM PUT THAT ON HIS INVOICE BEFORE HE LEFT AND I TOLD HIM THAT IT WILL NOT MAKFROM SOME ONE THAT HAS THE SAME ENGINE WITH ONE CARB SV1 AND IS ON Q-16 AND HE HAD HIS BUDDY DYNO HIS ENGINE NOT ME,IT TOOK ME A WEEK OR SO TO GET THIS FROM HIM.BILLY HAS A 632 WITH 15+ COMP AND MANLEY GAS PORTED PISTONS AND GOOD RING PACKAGE AND TWO RONS AKY WITH DART 415CC M HEADS WITH WORK ON THEM FOR (FREE)!!!! AND A COMP 4-7 SWAP CAM 285-296 318-337 ON A 112 WITH 800+ LIFT DO YOU THINK IT ONLY MADE 950 H.P COME ON WE ARE NOT THAT DUMB (BILLY) HEADS HAD NO WORK FROM DART NO SEAT WORK OR NOTHING!!! INTAKE IN THE PICS WERE DONE FOR (FREE)!!! AND WE DRILLED IT FOR RONS INJECTORS FOR (FREE)!!! IN THE ENGINE WORK BECAUSE I WAS DOING THE HEADS AND OTHER WORK FOR FREE HE SAID HE WAS IN NO RUSH,THIS WAS HIS LAST BUILD. I WOULD HAVE DYNO THIS ENGINE BUT HE HAD ALL MOPAR BRAKETS ,VAC PUMP PULLY,CARB LINKAGE ECT. HE WANTED ME TO TAKE A FULL DAY AND PUT ON FOR FREE WHEN DOES THE FREE STOP!!!! HE NEVER THANKED ME ONE TIME FOR ANY THING JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!! I TRIED TO SELL HIM THE SHORT BLOCK LOOK AT THE INVOICE ON HERE AT A DAM GOOD DEAL TO GET HIM OFF MY BACK, NO HE WANTED THE COMPLETE ENGINE BECAUSE HE SAW THE GREAT DEAL HE WAS GETTING, LOOK ON HERE AND SEE IF ANY ONE WILL BUILD THAT ENGINE FOR THAT PRICE.WELL EVERY ONE THANK BILLY FOR MESSING IT UP FOR ALL THE OHER GOOD RACERS.


As you can see from the highlighted portion of this, in Naylor's own words he is saying Tom put that on the final invoice. Look at my 1st & final invoice paid in full, the final invoice is a copy of the 1st estimate that Jimmy wrote 1100+hp on. Look at both of mine again & you will see that mine is the real invoice again, another lie by Jimmy Naylor.

[SuperComp1R]

well, the man should get what he paid for. If I enter into a deal with any engine builder and he claims the engine he is going to build for me will make "X" amount of horsepower then i want what i paid for. really simple. oh happy new year.

[TheRabbit]

well, the man should get what he paid for. If I enter into a deal with any engine builder and he claims the engine he is going to build for me will make "X" amount of horsepower then i want what i paid for. really simple. oh happy new year.

And how do you know he didn't get what he paid for???

[mrmopar622]

well, the man should get what he paid for. If I enter into a deal with any engine builder and he claims the engine he is going to build for me will make "X" amount of horsepower then i want what i paid for. really simple. oh happy new year.

And how do you know he didn't get what he paid for???


Because I posted the dyno sheet showing it did not make the 1100+hp Naylor guaranteed it to make.

I challenge anyone that says my engine will make another 153 hp more on a reputable shop's dyno TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS. I have offered in above posts 2 of the most reputable engine builders in the Southeast to pick whichever they prefer. I will bring the engine & dyno sheets. If the engine makes 1100 hp or more, they win the money, if it makes less, I win the money.

Racing Junk is a dream come true for drag racers. It is better than ebay or even facebook. If you need anything race related you can just about find it here. If you have anything for sale race related you can just about sell it here. But for this to be successful, it has to have some honesty because most of the time you are buying/selling to strangers. Everyone put themselves in my shoes, because the next time you buy, you could find yourself in my shoes. If you bought something from someone & it was not what it was told to you it would be, how would you feel if people told you - you got a good deal whether it was what was advertised or not and now you are stuck with it.

[johnracer]

well, the man should get what he paid for. If I enter into a deal with any engine builder and he claims the engine he is going to build for me will make "X" amount of horsepower then i want what i paid for. really simple. oh happy new year.

And how do you know he didn't get what he paid for???

And that really is the question, isn't it? Personally I wouldn't be as concerned with the numbers themselves as I would be with the fact that power fell off after 6400rpm. That sounds a lot like a potential fuel system issue......I didn't see any a/f numbers on that dyno sheet.

[SuperComp1R]

good question rabbit, read my reply again "should get what he paid for" how do i know he didn't? I don't, how do you know he did? he has an invoice as proof, seems like the builder needs to come on here and tell his side.

[shawnp]

It appears he got all the parts he paid for. Given he had the motor apart he would have seen something that didn't belong. I agree with the question on the A/F info. It may be that something missed in assembly. Is the cam in wrong?

I still feel this motor needs to be on Naylor's dyno. That is the only way to answer the questions. If it makes 1050 on Naylor's dyno then pay an agreed upon dyno session. Maybe a discount from Naylor to compensate for additional parts bought. If it is as poor as Billy claims, then Naylor should correct it on his dime and get at least 1050 out of the motor. Sounds reasonable.

[TheRabbit]

Shawn you are exactly right.
That's why I posted IMO it was a mistake to get the motor without being dynoed from the builder. Mistake #1

I know it has been stated dyno wasn't in the agreement. Mistake #2.

I'm not concerned much about the numbers on the dyno as I am
about getting a running (with a base tune) engine. Things happen no matter how good the builder is. The dyno gives the builder a chance to find any problems and fix before it leaves his hands.

IF the motor was way down on hp I'm sure almost any builder would correct the problem ( even if it was a cam IF cam chosen by builder)

I've seen dyno runs pick up 100+hp from 1st to 4th run MANY times.

Different builder dynoing a new motor brought to him by an unhappy buyer is not ever going to look go for the original builder.

I'd be willing to bet I could get more hp out of that motor on my builders dyno, but I seriously doubt those heads (and other things like wet sump etc.) will make 1,100hp.

Let me add something about dyno results. I had 548 built using Merlin heads. I picked the cam, it made 798hp. Engine builder kept telling me he wanted to use a bigger cam. I raced that motor for a full season and at the end of the season we changed the cam. The new bigger cam made 868hp and I was tickled and almost didn't believe it on that motor. Long story short my truck SLOWED down a good bit (more than a .10 ) and I was NEVER able to get it back with that cam.

[mrmopar622]

The agreement was for the engine to be on Jimmy Naylors dyno ready to begin the dyno pulls when I arrived to pick up the engine.He then refused to dyno the engine saying it was not in writing and he was not going to do it. If everyone remembers in a earlier post he said all my Mopar parts would not work.I bought everything new from him except the Terminators,Vacuum pump and Ron's fuel(that's the parts that he was referring to that were Mopar parts and would not work)it took me 30mins-one hour to bolt everything up.
If he would have Dynoed the engine as agreed it would have saved me $500.00 (and I was lucky I did not have to pay another day,because it was not oiling to the rockers & had to be repaired)$368.48 for labor,gaskets new 9qts new oil & filter because instead of putting the correct thickness intake gasket on it they put 2 and one had slipped leaking water into the intake galley, that's $868.48. It was 197 miles one-way that equals 394 miles because of the mistakes I had to make 2 trips total 788 miles. Counting gas it wound up costing me over $1,000.00 extra plus 2 full days of my time.

We made a total of 10 dyno pulls and took the 3 best which were the last 3. We re-lashed the valves, tried different set of plugs. From looking at the graph on the dyno pull the operator could tell what changes to make from pull to pull. I thought I had made it clear earlier, we had a total of 10 pulls but took the best 3 .

[Scooterz]

good question rabbit, read my reply again "should get what he paid for" how do i know he didn't? I don't, how do you know he did? he has an invoice as proof, seems like the builder needs to come on here and tell his side.

Agreed.

Billy has not seemed to hide anything.... posted dyno, invoices, each detail has been posted, even down to recorded calls being offered up.

Guess what?? Billy does not seem like he is hiding anything. Naylor can say that "he got a great deal" (perception) & that all he does is bitch... etc & somehow that is good enough to justify Billy's complaints?

If I were to look at facts posted so far, I would say Billy has been diligent. Lets see NAYLOR be a man & actually post something non-emotional & intelligent. Balls in his court... what more can a guy ask of Billy to prove his case here???? I don't get it; but I don't claim to be an expert on this subject either.

[mrmopar622]

This is an email conversation between Naylor Racing & me, after 4 weeks(remember, Jimmy Naylor said the engine would be ready in 5-6 weeks Max) I was checking on the progress as well as getting some information on hotels, etc., so I could stay 1 night knowing that the dyno session would take most of the day. As you can see below, the reply from Naylor Racing showed where it was in the agreement the engine would be dynoed upon completion. In the end, Jimmy Naylor refused to dyno his own engine! After about 8 weeks, when the engine was not completed, I asked for my deposit back. Naylor's answer was NO, he knows how to scam people. He demands half the money up front and you either have to finish the deal with him or lose your money. He knows you can sue him for your money but he knows that will take at least 5-6 more months & cost you a lot more money.


P.S. Notice at the end of the email where Tom says "you'll be hearing from Jimmy soon", guess what, I never heard from Jimmy!!



James Naylor <[email protected]>

7/21/12

to me
Hello Bill,

So there isn't any confusion, Jimmy will e-mail you back with the answers concerning your motor, dyno, etc...
The closest motels, dining, etc... to us is in Sumter, about 8 miles east. When you come here take I-20 to exit 98 is correct. Once you head towards Sumter, you only go 2 miles and merge on to state road 261 on the right. Our road, FISH, is 12.5 miles on the left. Once on Fish we are 1/2 mile on the right. This is much faster, my gps always wants me to take that long way around also, I don't think it shows 261 as a finished road or something. 261 is a two lane 55mph country road, mostly farm land, so you really can't miss Fish when it comes up on the left. As for the fuel, you don't need to bring any. We carry a variety of VP race fuel in 5 gal pails, including M1.

Thanks, you'll be hearing from Jimmy soon.

TOM
Naylor Racing Engines
803-499-2293
Race Engine Parts
803-499-2292

[proactionheads]

Now that the holidays are over, I will try and respond to what’s been said by Mr. Humphries in this Forum. Foremost, Bill got the motor he paid for! Before building him the motor, many conversations were had, estimates drawn up, and e-mails sent. The 1100hp motor with Brodix 395MC heads, shaft rockers, Profiler tunnel ram intake, and belt drive cost $1400.00+ and was beyond his budget. Working within his $11500.00 budget, I offered a 632ci using Dart 400m heads which I would work on for no cost to make the most hp possible. If he had the time to wait on the heads to come in, and for me to do the work on them, I would do it for $11500, and it would run excellent times in his dragster. Once the build was started, Bill called several times checking on progress and was updated on what parts came in and how the head work was coming. We sent him pictures of the heads so he could see the work I had already done. His response was he couldn’t tell any work had been done, we were beyond our 4-6 week time agreement, and he wanted 1100hp. What? That was not agreed on for this motor! Apparently all the previous conversations about us helping him out by building him the most motor for $11500 went in one ear and out the other. Once we started the build no time frame was guaranteed, I was doing the work on the heads on my time at no cost! And YES there were extras I didn’t charge him for (Head work, intake work, drilled intake for injectors, and upgrade to Moroso dragster oil pan @ no cost to him). At this point to make things right I offered him a deal on a complete short block for $7148, this way he could save his money for a top end that would ultimately make him the 1100 hp he was chasing. He declined that offer because he said he was getting such a good deal on the motor I was in the process of making now. I stopped all other work in the shop to get this motor finished for him so he could pick it up ASAP. No the motor was not run on our dyno before it left. First, he wanted the motor now! Secondly, due to his attitude, and all the prep it would have taken to get ready to run (his vac pump, mandrel, carb linkage and brackets all came off his Mopar), and doing this at my expense, I had no problem not running this motor for him. (It took him 3 weeks to get the engine ready to dyno at the shop that did run it).
A 632 ci motor with 400m heads, tunnel ram with two Rons terminators on alcohol will make 1050hp. The Dyno numbers he posted look low. For a motor to drop off like it did it appears to have fuel issues to me. This motor should turn 7500 rpm with this big top end. I know this engine will run great in a dragster, I wish he would put it in and see for himself.
Intake gasket issue- The Dart 400m head has a raised runner. The intake took 1.120 and 1.060 gaskets we used 3M to glue together, it should not have leaked. If this thickness was not put back on, the intake runners will not line up with the head runners. Maybe his is his issue?
Oiling problem- I never had a BBC that had oiling problems to the top end. Maybe they didn’t prime it? If they had primed it they should have noticed that the rockers were not getting oil then, not when they were running it.
He doesn’t like my shop? I have been in business, at the same location, for 24 years. Everyone is welcome to visit. Here is a list of some of the equipment I have in my 2400sq. ft. machine shop. Sunnen VR 6000 valve grinder, Serdi valve grinder, Pro-Bal balancer, 7’ Magnaflux inspection machine, Sunnen rod machine, 54” Victor lathe, Super Flow flow bench, Sunnen CV616 honing machine, Quik-Way honing machine, Sunnen line hone machine, Rottler boring machine, DCM with BHJ decking fixture, Scledum CVN machine, 54” Bridgeport, twin brake Stuska dyno.

[mrmopar622]

Again, more lies & excuses from Naylor Racing Engines/Pro Action Heads. I would think any reputable engine builder would want to check into any problems on an engine he had built not make excuses.

As for the 3 weeks before getting the engine dynoed, I had to wait for my turn in line! Thanks to Jimmy Naylor's poor workmanship it cost an extra $348.76, parts & labor, another $80+ for new oil & filter, where he put 2 intake gaskets instead of the proper one-one had slipped leaking water into the engine. Everything including the extra trip cost me over $1,000.00 for work that should have already been done by Naylor. He refused to reimburse the $348.76 plus oil & filter to correct his poor workmanship much less the $1,000.00. When priming the engine that is where we found the oiling problem to the rockers. We cranked it & run it long enough to make sure it was not getting oil to the rockers. HAD THE DYNO OPERATOR NOT DISCOVERED THIS THE ENGINE WOULD NOW BE NOT JUST LOW ON HORSEPOWER BUT JUNK! The dyno work was done by one of the best men in the Southeast with the latest state-of-the-art dyno. It monitored the EGT on each cylinder at head; CO2 in each collector; fuel pressure; oil pressure & oil temp; water temp; if there would have been any kind of fuel pressure problem we would have seen it. Jimmy Naylor, do you really think anyone is going to believe the vacuum pump, fuel pump & terminators(bolt on like a carb) were Mopar parts and would not fit on a Chevrolet?
Everyone else on here can see there is a problem with this engine, and instead of addressing the problem all you have done is make excuses. WHY CAN'T YOU SEE THIS??? You can not solve a problem by making excuses.
Everyone has seen the first & final invoice and on both invoices you put 1100+hp.
Then you try to scam us with an invoice you say you sent with the Head Hunter 395 cfm heads and that was the 1100 hp engine, but you had to substitute with the Dart 400 Big M heads to stay in my budget.
If everyone would please go back up & look at his bogus invoice you will see the engine build with the Brodix Head Hunter Heads is for a 600 cu in engine, it even says it on the invoice, the second invoice, the engine you say I chose because of budget, is a 632 cu in engine build - Jimmy Naylor this is just more inconsistent lies coming from you.
Instead of all those lies would it have not been easier to have said "Looks like we have a problem, let's see what we can do to correct it."

[mrmopar622]

Here is the info from Naylor .... I've heard his side of the story now too, 1050 to 1100 was with Brodix HH Heads and not the Darts that were used.

Original Estimate

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/Dragster387b/BillHumphreys600_zpsa51a7a13.jpg

2nd Estimate
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/Dragster387b/BillHumphreysSB_zpsfb86a1f3.jpg

Dyno Sheet to Similar Engine
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/Dragster387b/DynoSheet_zps233a11b5.jpg

As stated in above post, you can look at estimate 1 and estimate 2 and see they are different engine builds. This shows Naylor Racing Engines/Pro Action Heads is nothing more than a scammer. The Brodix Head Hunter 395 Heads may make another 25-30 hp over the Dart Heads but as anyone knows you get approximately 1.5 hp for every cu in that equals 48 hp more out of a 632 cu in engine, so it is not hard to do the math and see the 600 cu in engine would not make as much hp as the 632

Scam Man Jimmy Naylor - Shame On You For Thinking You Could Pull A Scam Like That On All Us Racers!!
If you had put half the time into trying to solve the internal problem on the engine that you have put into all the lies and trying to SCAM everyone, the problem could have been solved already.

[shawnp]

Bottom line is neither of you are going to agree on anything. Now my opinion may not be the popular answer here but here it is:

Naylor--- bring the motor back and dyno it at your shop. It makes the 1050 then send him on this way. If it is the 950 he claims, you can fix the issues.

Billy- hate to say it but you seem to be the customer most shops are glad to see leave. You have high expectations on limited budget with that have it now attitude. Nothing wrong with cutting cost but your results are what your budget was. Seeing your reactions and postings, I can see the attitude that Naylor mentioned getting when on the phone with you.

My verdict, no one was scammed. Simply just 2 people that can't do business together, period. It happens. One isn't going to be pleased and the other is done trying. It's a dead issue. Walk away and let it be done.

[mrmopar622]

Bottom line is neither of you are going to agree on anything. Now my opinion may not be the popular answer here but here it is:

Naylor--- bring the motor back and dyno it at your shop. It makes the 1050 then send him on this way. If it is the 950 he claims, you can fix the issues.

Billy- hate to say it but you seem to be the customer most shops are glad to see leave. You have high expectations on limited budget with that have it now attitude. Nothing wrong with cutting cost but your results are what your budget was. Seeing your reactions and postings, I can see the attitude that Naylor mentioned getting when on the phone with you.

My verdict, no one was scammed. Simply just 2 people that can't do business together, period. It happens. One isn't going to be pleased and the other is done trying. It's a dead issue. Walk away and let it be done.

I will try to answer your questions & keep it short as possible to avoid any confusion.
1. The motor should have been dynoed per the agreement at Naylor's shop. When I contacted him about the problems with the engine that should have been his reply or him offer to have someone else do it at his expense.
2. I have said this before and will say it one more time, I asked Naylor if he could build me an engine that made at least 1100+hp. I DID NOT TELL HIM I WAS ON A BUDGET! I did not force him or ask him to make me a "good deal" he gave me a price to build an 1100+hp engine and I took him up on the price. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS! I paid him his asking price for the 1100+hp engine. The engine I got from him only makes 947 hp. Instead of trying to work with me to correct the problem all he has done, as you can see from his 2 bogus invoices, is try to scam me further and everyone else with invoices that are completely different.
As per the phone conversations, I asked Jimmy Naylor when I first called him if it would be okay if I taped the phone conversations for my personal use and he said okay that's fine. If someone can tell me how to transfer the audio over to youtube or something similar I will post them on here for everyone to hear and this will straighten everything out. I am a nice guy & I talk to people like I want to be talked to, but if you show attitude to me, I will show attitude back!!
3. As for it being a dead issue and walking away THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN If it was a deal between 2 individuals that might be the best thing to do, but Naylor Racing Engines/Pro Action Heads is not just a business but a business doing business on here(Racing Junk). If a business advertises/claims any product, they should stand behind that product and make it right. If nothing else comes from this, but it saves another unsuspecting racer from being scammed, then it will not all be in vain. THERE ARE TO MANY PEOPLE WHO WILL WALK AWAY AND NOT CONTINUE TO FIGHT AND THAT ALLOWS NAYLOR RACING ENGINES/PRO ACTION HEADS & OTHERS LIKE HIM TO CONTINUE TO SCAM PEOPLE.
I have had several people pm me telling me I needed to take this over to Yellow Bullet, there won't be a shortage of people who are willing to help me. I plan to tell my story on every drag racing site I can find.

[hammertime]

One side says one thing and other says another thing .. Shawn is right you two will never agree and shouldnt do business together.

Mopar .. do you happen to have the o2's and egt's off the place you dyno'd it, you know with that thing laying over and apparently low on power for that dyno, maybe it does have a fuel issue. Id like to see some real data to support the theory of it going lean though.

[mrmopar622]

The dyno operator & I went over all the data and called over to a Ron's dealer and had him come over and look over the data with us.Everything is within specs.
Looking at the dyno sheet that Naylor had you post, my engine is way down on power from the beginning compared to that 1059 hp engine.

[hammertime]

The dyno operator & I went over all the data and called over to a Ron's dealer and had him come over and look over the data with us.Everything is within specs.
Looking at the dyno sheet that Naylor had you post, my engine is way down on power from the beginning compared to that 1059 hp engine.

You side stepped answering my question. Rons dealer or not doesnt mean he knew what he was doing. You also may of confirmed you have a fuel issue the entire time, a fuel pump issue possible if it was down a bunch. Id like to see the true dyno sheet not the printed copy that you have that shows very little data. Data dont lie

[mrmopar622]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!

[zipper06]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!

I have a similar to hammertimes :?: , i've never seen a flow/pressure chart from ron's, when you send a pump in to get repaired or flowed they only say they are in spec's.
A couple yrs ago i was helping a friend with a 512" Ford motor setup a 4.1 toilet bowl on his car. It kept laying down about 7,000 RPM's and would only run 5.80 in his 2400 lb T'bird. As i said earlier i donot use Ron's pumps. I sold my friend a DSR -1 pump and the car immediately went 5.62,5.64,and 5.65 before it broke the rearend housing in half, just saying. Also what size nozzles are you running :?: They should be .038's or .040's with that many inches. Either one or both of these issues could cause the motor to be down on power.
Again that's why i run DSR or Enderle pumps i know exactly what the flow rate is and what the pressure is.

JMO

Zip.

[johnracer]

A fresh of eyes could actually help you Billy. If you have egt and/or o2 numbers for the entire pulls, we could put that issue to rest right quick. David is "the man" for running alcohol and Ron's stuff and will help you if you let him. I know you are certain that it's not a fuel system issue, but an opinion from someone who knows his stuff and doesn't have a dog in this fight might be a good idea......

Johnny

[mrmopar622]

Hi Zip,
We had a Ron's dealer who sells, installs & runs them on his own car come & look at the dyno results that showed the fuel pressure, EGT and CO2. They were all within specs, if there had been anything questionable on the fuel system we would have corrected it right then. The engine made the most power with #40 nozzles and #86 pill in the return line, timing at 32 degrees. This setup made the most power any leaner or richer resulted in a loss of hp. In other words, we fine tuned the fuel system & timing to get the most hp possible.

[zipper06]

Hi Zip,
We had a Ron's dealer who sells, installs & runs them on his own car come & look at the dyno results that showed the fuel pressure, EGT and CO2. They were all within specs, if there had been anything questionable on the fuel system we would have corrected it right then. The engine made the most power with #40 nozzles and #86 pill in the return line, timing at 32 degrees. This setup made the most power any leaner or richer resulted in a loss of hp. In other words, we fine tuned the fuel system & timing to get the most hp possible.

O'K that answers my both my :?: on the fuel system, the nozzles are right and the bypass pill is just about in the middle of where it should run with a -1 pump, kinda makes me wonder about the cam, maybe too small or advanced/retarded too much. I've never built or ran a motor that big, so i don't know what they work best, my biggest motor ever was 540 blown alcohol Rodek so i don't have any answers. SORRY

Zip.

[hammertime]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!


Clearly ... I see you correct a lot on the dyno, anyone that pulled a big engine like that one time and seen it lay over at 6000 anything rpms wouldnt of pulled it twice without looking for that issue ...

I can now see why no one would want to help you ... you side step questions .. give know it all answers ... clearly u got it all figured out :!:

[mrmopar622]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!


Clearly ... I see you correct a lot on the dyno, anyone that pulled a big engine like that one time and seen it lay over at 6000 anything rpms wouldnt of pulled it twice without looking for that issue ...

I can now see why no one would want to help you ... you side step questions .. give know it all answers ... clearly u got it all figured out :!:


I have answered your questions, not side stepping anything. I had one of the best dyno operators with the latest newest dyno that was also good and used to dynoing engines with Ron's terminators & flying toilets on alcohol. There is no fuel pressure problem whatsoever. However, if you are so sure there are fuel pressure problems - PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!! I will be happy to bring my engine and dyno sheets & put the engine on the dyno, if there is a fuel pressure problem that you can correct and pick the engine up 153 hp like it should be you win the money, if not, I win the money.

[hammertime]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!


Clearly ... I see you correct a lot on the dyno, anyone that pulled a big engine like that one time and seen it lay over at 6000 anything rpms wouldnt of pulled it twice without looking for that issue ...

I can now see why no one would want to help you ... you side step questions .. give know it all answers ... clearly u got it all figured out :!:


I have answered your questions, not side stepping anything. I had one of the best dyno operators with the latest newest dyno that was also good and used to dynoing engines with Ron's terminators & flying toilets on alcohol. There is no fuel pressure problem whatsoever. However, if you are so sure there are fuel pressure problems - PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!! I will be happy to bring my engine and dyno sheets & put the engine on the dyno, if there is a fuel pressure problem that you can correct and pick the engine up 153 hp like it should be you win the money, if not, I win the money.

Then show the data off this so called latest and greatest dyno... It will have a sheet that shows o2's, Pretty simple..

How much money you offering .. I get to bring it to a dyno of my choice to make it show 1100 ... easy to flip a dial and make a dyno show what you want, of course you have it in your head that every dyno in the country reads the exact same number and cant be changed ... I can now see why your getting zero help from Naylor ... you act like this to people who offer you advice or help ... your defensive .. and pretty much a prick about it, to anyone and everyone who has anything to say but your 100% right ...

[mrmopar622]

Hi Zip,
We had a Ron's dealer who sells, installs & runs them on his own car come & look at the dyno results that showed the fuel pressure, EGT and CO2. They were all within specs, if there had been anything questionable on the fuel system we would have corrected it right then. The engine made the most power with #40 nozzles and #86 pill in the return line, timing at 32 degrees. This setup made the most power any leaner or richer resulted in a loss of hp. In other words, we fine tuned the fuel system & timing to get the most hp possible.

O'K that answers my both my :?: on the fuel system, the nozzles are right and the bypass pill is just about in the middle of where it should run with a -1 pump, kinda makes me wonder about the cam, maybe too small or advanced/retarded too much. I've never built or ran a motor that big, so i don't know what they work best, my biggest motor ever was 540 blown alcohol Rodek so i don't have any answers. SORRY

Zip.

That is what we are thinking the to camshaft is small,(I will post the cam card tomorrow if it will help don't have the time now)are it is not degreed in right.Also we are concerned about the heads valve job ect. I would be interested in seeing what you think about the cam size.THANKS!

[mrmopar622]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!


Clearly ... I see you correct a lot on the dyno, anyone that pulled a big engine like that one time and seen it lay over at 6000 anything rpms wouldnt of pulled it twice without looking for that issue ...

I can now see why no one would want to help you ... you side step questions .. give know it all answers ... clearly u got it all figured out :!:


I have answered your questions, not side stepping anything. I had one of the best dyno operators with the latest newest dyno that was also good and used to dynoing engines with Ron's terminators & flying toilets on alcohol. There is no fuel pressure problem whatsoever. However, if you are so sure there are fuel pressure problems - PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!! I will be happy to bring my engine and dyno sheets & put the engine on the dyno, if there is a fuel pressure problem that you can correct and pick the engine up 153 hp like it should be you win the money, if not, I win the money.

Then show the data off this so called latest and greatest dyno... It will have a sheet that shows o2's, Pretty simple..

How much money you offering .. I get to bring it to a dyno of my choice to make it show 1100 ... easy to flip a dial and make a dyno show what you want, of course you have it in your head that every dyno in the country reads the exact same number and cant be changed ... I can now see why your getting zero help from Naylor ... you act like this to people who offer you advice or help ... your defensive .. and pretty much a prick about it, to anyone and everyone who has anything to say but your 100% right ...

In above posts I offered the choice of 2 shops - Pro Line Racing in Atlanta, GA., or Huntsville Engines in Huntsville, AL., it's not like I just picked these 2 now. Take your choice. The minimum bet is $1,500.00, so pick your shop & put your money where your mouth is!! That's all you been doing is running your mouth, IT'S TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

[hammertime]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!


Clearly ... I see you correct a lot on the dyno, anyone that pulled a big engine like that one time and seen it lay over at 6000 anything rpms wouldnt of pulled it twice without looking for that issue ...

I can now see why no one would want to help you ... you side step questions .. give know it all answers ... clearly u got it all figured out :!:


I have answered your questions, not side stepping anything. I had one of the best dyno operators with the latest newest dyno that was also good and used to dynoing engines with Ron's terminators & flying toilets on alcohol. There is no fuel pressure problem whatsoever. However, if you are so sure there are fuel pressure problems - PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!! I will be happy to bring my engine and dyno sheets & put the engine on the dyno, if there is a fuel pressure problem that you can correct and pick the engine up 153 hp like it should be you win the money, if not, I win the money.

Then show the data off this so called latest and greatest dyno... It will have a sheet that shows o2's, Pretty simple..

How much money you offering .. I get to bring it to a dyno of my choice to make it show 1100 ... easy to flip a dial and make a dyno show what you want, of course you have it in your head that every dyno in the country reads the exact same number and cant be changed ... I can now see why your getting zero help from Naylor ... you act like this to people who offer you advice or help ... your defensive .. and pretty much a prick about it, to anyone and everyone who has anything to say but your 100% right ...

In above posts I offered the choice of 2 shops - Pro Line Racing in Atlanta, GA., or Huntsville Engines in Huntsville, AL., it's not like I just picked these 2 now. Take your choice. The minimum bet is $1,500.00, so pick your shop & put your money where your mouth is!! That's all you been doing is running your mouth, IT'S TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Send it to me .. I'll get ya one that says 1200 and we can up the bet if you want to because I know how easy it is to move dyno #'s .. your a clown, do some research on a dyno once and you'll figure out how accurate they all are from one to the next.

I still stand by my post l. You had someone else work on this engine and dyno it ... you have zero to stand on as soon as you took it else where (after this builder gave u a hell of a deal) the lack of data you are showing from the dyno .. and the so called "experts" with injection and dyno's showed their smarts when they kept pulling it over and over when a 632 ci with a big head, tunnel ram and the correct camshaft wouldn't rpm over mid 6k ... anyone worth a darn would of pulled the plug right away on trying to dyno it. Common courtesy and common sense would of went a long ways in this whole deal ... and I think you proved Naylors point of you having neither ... Im done ! :!: :roll:

[mrmopar622]

There is no fuel pressure issue's,if they were we would have corrected them on the dyno!


Clearly ... I see you correct a lot on the dyno, anyone that pulled a big engine like that one time and seen it lay over at 6000 anything rpms wouldnt of pulled it twice without looking for that issue ...

I can now see why no one would want to help you ... you side step questions .. give know it all answers ... clearly u got it all figured out :!:


I have answered your questions, not side stepping anything. I had one of the best dyno operators with the latest newest dyno that was also good and used to dynoing engines with Ron's terminators & flying toilets on alcohol. There is no fuel pressure problem whatsoever. However, if you are so sure there are fuel pressure problems - PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!! I will be happy to bring my engine and dyno sheets & put the engine on the dyno, if there is a fuel pressure problem that you can correct and pick the engine up 153 hp like it should be you win the money, if not, I win the money.

Then show the data off this so called latest and greatest dyno... It will have a sheet that shows o2's, Pretty simple..

How much money you offering .. I get to bring it to a dyno of my choice to make it show 1100 ... easy to flip a dial and make a dyno show what you want, of course you have it in your head that every dyno in the country reads the exact same number and cant be changed ... I can now see why your getting zero help from Naylor ... you act like this to people who offer you advice or help ... your defensive .. and pretty much a prick about it, to anyone and everyone who has anything to say but your 100% right ...

In above posts I offered the choice of 2 shops - Pro Line Racing in Atlanta, GA., or Huntsville Engines in Huntsville, AL., it's not like I just picked these 2 now. Take your choice. The minimum bet is $1,500.00, so pick your shop & put your money where your mouth is!! That's all you been doing is running your mouth, IT'S TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Send it to me .. I'll get ya one that says 1200 and we can up the bet if you want to because I know how easy it is to move dyno #'s .. your a clown, do some research on a dyno once and you'll figure out how accurate they all are from one to the next.

I still stand by my post l. You had someone else work on this engine and dyno it ... you have zero to stand on as soon as you took it else where (after this builder gave u a hell of a deal) the lack of data you are showing from the dyno .. and the so called "experts" with injection and dyno's showed their smarts when they kept pulling it over and over when a 632 ci with a big head, tunnel ram and the correct camshaft wouldn't rpm over mid 6k ... anyone worth a darn would of pulled the plug right away on trying to dyno it. Common courtesy and common sense would of went a long ways in this whole deal ... and I think you proved Naylors point of you having neither ... Im done ! :!: :roll:

MotorMouth,that's not the 1st time you have said that...You like to run your mouth,start putting your money where your mouth is!!!!

[bigray]

Wow.. i think we all need to step back... and take a deep breath.. and re group..the talk is starting to get over heated,, the trouble is back at Naylor..

[shawnp]

Dead on, Dave. A few adjustments and corrected factors and that thing will be 1100+ in 2-3 pulls, even with an average dyno operator.

There is no other negative feedback on Naylor or proaction heads. There is positive feedback on proaction as a seller.

You can keep beating your dead horse here if you want, but until you decide that your done in a pissing match and would like to get help with your combo then don't expect a lot of replies. Your attitude toward those that can help you isn't going to get you far. :roll:

[mrmopar622]

Dead on, Dave. A few adjustments and corrected factors and that thing will be 1100+ in 2-3 pulls, even with an average dyno operator.

There is no other negative feedback on Naylor or proaction heads. There is positive feedback on proaction as a seller.

You can keep beating your dead horse here if you want, but until you decide that your done in a pissing match and would like to get help with your combo then don't expect a lot of replies. Your attitude toward those that can help you isn't going to get you far. :roll:

Any and all legitimate help/advice is appreciated. I don't think there will be any trouble in anyone seeing I have been cooperative and as courteous in replies to everyone.

I think this is obvious to everyone there are a few on here that likes to do nothing more than run their mouths and try to divert the attention from the matter at hand. The attitude shown toward me will be the attitude shown in return.

If the ones of you believe all the BS about the fuel system, the tune-up or the average dyno operator can get 1100hp out of my engine in 2-3 pulls by a legitimate shop, THEN PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!! At the start I offered the ones of you who were foolish enough to believe that your choice of 2 of the most reputable engine builders/dyno operators in the Southeast. All you have to do is pick the one of your choice & put your money where your mouth is!!

[mrmopar622]

Wow.. i think we all need to step back... and take a deep breath.. and re group..the talk is starting to get over heated,, the trouble is back at Naylor..


You are 100% right!!

[THERATTLER]

"I think this is obvious to everyone there are a few on here that likes to do nothing more than run their mouths"QUOTE

LMFAO

[Harbone]

http://i.imgur.com/aVZgT.gif

[itsabird]

http://i.imgur.com/aVZgT.gifPass that down, will ya?

[Harbone]

http://i.imgur.com/aVZgT.gifPass that down, will ya?

You can have that one, I am keeping this one... :lol:

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/167278.gif

[itsabird]

Oook :lol:

[SuperComp1R]

a lot has been said,maybe yes or maybe no but i agree with big ray, "NAYLOR" needs to come on here if he has nothing to hide.

[shawnp]

Now that the holidays are over, I will try and respond to what’s been said by Mr. Humphries in this Forum. Foremost, Bill got the motor he paid for! Before building him the motor, many conversations were had, estimates drawn up, and e-mails sent. The 1100hp motor with Brodix 395MC heads, shaft rockers, Profiler tunnel ram intake, and belt drive cost $1400.00+ and was beyond his budget. Working within his $11500.00 budget, I offered a 632ci using Dart 400m heads which I would work on for no cost to make the most hp possible. If he had the time to wait on the heads to come in, and for me to do the work on them, I would do it for $11500, and it would run excellent times in his dragster. Once the build was started, Bill called several times checking on progress and was updated on what parts came in and how the head work was coming. We sent him pictures of the heads so he could see the work I had already done. His response was he couldn’t tell any work had been done, we were beyond our 4-6 week time agreement, and he wanted 1100hp. What? That was not agreed on for this motor! Apparently all the previous conversations about us helping him out by building him the most motor for $11500 went in one ear and out the other. Once we started the build no time frame was guaranteed, I was doing the work on the heads on my time at no cost! And YES there were extras I didn’t charge him for (Head work, intake work, drilled intake for injectors, and upgrade to Moroso dragster oil pan @ no cost to him). At this point to make things right I offered him a deal on a complete short block for $7148, this way he could save his money for a top end that would ultimately make him the 1100 hp he was chasing. He declined that offer because he said he was getting such a good deal on the motor I was in the process of making now. I stopped all other work in the shop to get this motor finished for him so he could pick it up ASAP. No the motor was not run on our dyno before it left. First, he wanted the motor now! Secondly, due to his attitude, and all the prep it would have taken to get ready to run (his vac pump, mandrel, carb linkage and brackets all came off his Mopar), and doing this at my expense, I had no problem not running this motor for him. (It took him 3 weeks to get the engine ready to dyno at the shop that did run it).
A 632 ci motor with 400m heads, tunnel ram with two Rons terminators on alcohol will make 1050hp. The Dyno numbers he posted look low. For a motor to drop off like it did it appears to have fuel issues to me. This motor should turn 7500 rpm with this big top end. I know this engine will run great in a dragster, I wish he would put it in and see for himself.
Intake gasket issue- The Dart 400m head has a raised runner. The intake took 1.120 and 1.060 gaskets we used 3M to glue together, it should not have leaked. If this thickness was not put back on, the intake runners will not line up with the head runners. Maybe his is his issue?
Oiling problem- I never had a BBC that had oiling problems to the top end. Maybe they didn’t prime it? If they had primed it they should have noticed that the rockers were not getting oil then, not when they were running it.
He doesn’t like my shop? I have been in business, at the same location, for 24 years. Everyone is welcome to visit. Here is a list of some of the equipment I have in my 2400sq. ft. machine shop. Sunnen VR 6000 valve grinder, Serdi valve grinder, Pro-Bal balancer, 7’ Magnaflux inspection machine, Sunnen rod machine, 54” Victor lathe, Super Flow flow bench, Sunnen CV616 honing machine, Quik-Way honing machine, Sunnen line hone machine, Rottler boring machine, DCM with BHJ decking fixture, Scledum CVN machine, 54” Bridgeport, twin brake Stuska dyno.

Again, more lies & excuses from Naylor Racing Engines/Pro Action Heads. I would think any reputable engine builder would want to check into any problems on an engine he had built not make excuses.

As for the 3 weeks before getting the engine dynoed, I had to wait for my turn in line! Thanks to Jimmy Naylor's poor workmanship it cost an extra $348.76, parts & labor, another $80+ for new oil & filter, where he put 2 intake gaskets instead of the proper one-one had slipped leaking water into the engine. Everything including the extra trip cost me over $1,000.00 for work that should have already been done by Naylor. He refused to reimburse the $348.76 plus oil & filter to correct his poor workmanship much less the $1,000.00. When priming the engine that is where we found the oiling problem to the rockers. We cranked it & run it long enough to make sure it was not getting oil to the rockers. HAD THE DYNO OPERATOR NOT DISCOVERED THIS THE ENGINE WOULD NOW BE NOT JUST LOW ON HORSEPOWER BUT JUNK! The dyno work was done by one of the best men in the Southeast with the latest state-of-the-art dyno. It monitored the EGT on each cylinder at head; CO2 in each collector; fuel pressure; oil pressure & oil temp; water temp; if there would have been any kind of fuel pressure problem we would have seen it. Jimmy Naylor, do you really think anyone is going to believe the vacuum pump, fuel pump & terminators(bolt on like a carb) were Mopar parts and would not fit on a Chevrolet?
Everyone else on here can see there is a problem with this engine, and instead of addressing the problem all you have done is make excuses. WHY CAN'T YOU SEE THIS??? You can not solve a problem by making excuses.
Everyone has seen the first & final invoice and on both invoices you put 1100+hp.
Then you try to scam us with an invoice you say you sent with the Head Hunter 395 cfm heads and that was the 1100 hp engine, but you had to substitute with the Dart 400 Big M heads to stay in my budget.
If everyone would please go back up & look at his bogus invoice you will see the engine build with the Brodix Head Hunter Heads is for a 600 cu in engine, it even says it on the invoice, the second invoice, the engine you say I chose because of budget, is a 632 cu in engine build - Jimmy Naylor this is just more inconsistent lies coming from you.
Instead of all those lies would it have not been easier to have said "Looks like we have a problem, let's see what we can do to correct it."


This was Naylor's response and Billy's response. Is there more we are looking for? About all of Billy's posts contain about the same info and Naylor's info is all about the same. It's 7 pages of the same stuff. Billy rants, Naylor responds, Billy calls him a liar and the cycle starts again.

Again..... only true way to solve this is put it on Naylor's dyno and see if it puts out the #'s that Billy wants or what Naylor says it should make.

[mrmopar622]

I have been holding off on a reply. I was thinking maybe if I did not put Naylor into a defensive position, he might respond positively. I think I have proved my point - it is not what it was advertised to be nor what I paid for. When I first emailed Naylor about the engine problems & lack of horsepower, I told him I thought things should be made right, if nothing else, I should receive some form of compensation.
So, I am putting that back out there again. Something we could both be somewhat satisfied with, and everyone could see that Naylor stands behind his work. Who knows, that might improve his business.

[TheRabbit]

I have been holding off on a reply. I was thinking maybe if I did not put Naylor into a defensive position, he might respond positively. I think I have proved my point - it is not what it was advertised to be nor what I paid for. When I first emailed Naylor about the engine problems & lack of horsepower, I told him I thought things should be made right, if nothing else, I should receive some form of compensation.
So, I am putting that back out there again. Something we could both be somewhat satisfied with, and everyone could see that Naylor stands behind his work. Who knows, that might improve his business.

My $.02 on this reply. If I were the builder no way would I compensate for someone else to do repairs. How can he be sure something wasn't done to the motor after it left his shop? When it leaves his shop it's "as is". I know an engine is suppose to be a good quality running engine, but once you take it somewhere else (without discussing it with builder because some of them do work with each other) you're on your own.


It benefits both buyer and builder to have good relationships with each other to be able to resolve issues like these on racing engines.
If not this is what happens and at this point you don't want to deal with him and he doesn't want to deal with you.

The only ending solution for this is to work this out with Naylor and him fix and tune this motor or you're just going to have to deal with another builder and expect him to charge you.

[mrmopar622]

Rabbit,
Here is my $.02 reply, what goes around comes around. When you sit back & gloat at someone else's misfortune, It Will Come Back To Haunt You!!

It used to be when we bought race parts they were ready to use, out of the box. Somehow that evolved into, you should be happy we build the race parts for you, we build hundreds of thousands parts there is no way we can check each one individually. If you want perfection you need to take the parts to a machine shop and have perfection made. Now, as per Rabbit says, racing parts have no guarantee. If you take them to a machine shop/engine builder even with their guarantee when you pay them their asking price and leave their shop, if it is not Right or what you paid for, you can expect to pay another machine shop/engine builder to make it Right or what you paid for in the beginning.
I don't know about the rest of you but that is unacceptable to me. By it being a racing part/race engine, I do not expect a 100,000 mile warranty, BUT I DO EXPECT IT TO BE WHAT IT WAS ADVERTISED AND WHAT I PAID FOR AND MOST IMPORTANTLY RIGHT!

As individual racers, we have very little power, but as United Racers we have Great Power. As racers ourselves, we need to look out for our fellow racers. We should all be thankful to Racing Junk for providing us with this site, but it is a very large site and impossible for them to police everything on their own. When we see a illegitimate machine shop/engine builder advertising and selling their products on here taking advantage of our fellow racers, shouldn't each & everyone of us report them to Racing Junk and ask that their advertisement/ads be removed from the site, or should we just sit back like Rabbit and gloat at everyone's misfortune?

[shawnp]

, BUT I DO EXPECT IT TO BE WHAT IT WAS ADVERTISED AND WHAT I PAID FOR AND MOST IMPORTANTLY RIGHT!

Then hire an attorney and get your satisfaction. It's real apparent that your dead horse isn't going to get up and run soon.

,
As individual racers, we have very little power, but as United Racers we have Great Power. As racers ourselves, we need to look out for our fellow racers. We should all be thankful to Racing Junk for providing us with this site, but it is a very large site and impossible for them to police everything on their own. When we see a illegitimate machine shop/engine builder advertising and selling their products on here taking advantage of our fellow racers, shouldn't each & everyone of us report them to Racing Junk and ask that their advertisement/ads be removed from the site, or should we just sit back like Rabbit and gloat at everyone's misfortune?

Very good point about united racers, however, you are the only one on here with an issue with this user. The only other feedback is positive.

You want RJ to do something about it, then see above about the attorney. They are not just going to randomly remove ads or users based on a he said/she said postings. You will need to something showin you won a fraud case and then it is possible they may consider looking at that user. Not much they can do when the user creates a new account either.

As for your comment about gloating at misfortune or sitting back, no one has done that here so I would be cautious at pointing finger and making such accusations to the members of this forum. Rabbit did all he could to help you and is giving you a 100% honest opinion.

[mrmopar622]

a 100% honest opinion.[/quote]

Opinions are like A**holes, everyone has one. It seems like your opinion of yourself you know everything, everyone else is wrong, you have all the right answers. Where is all this positive feedback for Naylor you keep referencing? I have yet to see any.
As for my honest opinion of you I could give a sh*t less what YOUR opinions are.
However, I am interested in hearing some of the other racers opinions.

[shawnp]

A search shows 2 positive posts for customer service.

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=18170&highlight=proactionheads


http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=9167&highlight=proactionheads


So Rabbit is a gloatter that sits back and does nothing, Hammertime got jumped on by you and I'm an asshole. Got it. This is getting easier to see why Naylor wiped his hands clean.

[mrmopar622]

You must not have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Looks like Naylor started off as a legitimate business since these posts are from 2009 and April, 2012. Looks like his work has started slipping, could it be him or his workers? Do you think the reason for his lack of posts is he is spending all his time trying to right the ship?

[gearhead1011]

I don't post on this stuff much and I certainly don't have a dog in this fight but there are a couple things I will chime in on. I don't doubt that mrmopar662 thinks he didn't get what he paid for and I'm sure naylor feels he delivered as much or more than what was promised. This issue is all about perspective. I have learned from the 30 years that I have been in business that all jobs are not always perfect and some customers can't be satisfied no matter what. As far as I know in all that time there were maybe 3 customers that left my shop that were not satisfied and one of those had nothing to do with the job that I did for him.

IMHO mrmopar662 would seem more credible if he didn't rant and get so defensive toward anyone that doesn't agree with him. You also have to consider the motive of another engine builder that did the follow up work. If he feels Naylor is a competitor he might exaggerate or just flat out lie about his competitor's build. He would have no motivation to make Naylor look good and I would guess the customer let his negative feelings about the product show to the 2nd engine guy. As the others on here stated the numbers on a dyno can easily be manipulated. I had my dyno work done by a guy that said his numbers would be about 6% less than what most dynos show because he uses a more realistic calculation factor than most. He said he wasn't interested in trying to make someone feel good about big HP numbers, he wanted to give his customers real data. The numbers he gave me were 50 HP less than what I expected but the build performed like I expected in the car. If you use the calculators it indicates the higher HP level according the ET and MPH. Again as the others said, put it in the car and see what it does. There is nothing wrong with gluing intake gaskets together to achieve the desired thickness, I have seen it done and done it myself without problems.

When you attack a business' credibility as has been done in this thread you put the business owner on the defensive and remove their motivation to help you out because if they help you now it looks like they were wrong and did it just because you called them out on it. I had a guy pull that on me once. After that I withdrew my offer of help and sent him on his way. In my business I have taken care of problems that were not my fault just as a matter of keeping good customer relations. It's amazing how much additional business you can pick up by helping your customer out. I am a lot more likely to help a customer out that approaches me in a pleasant manner than one that doesn't. I don't price war with my competitors. Maybe in the race engine business that is necessary but not in mine. I have found that people that price shop are the hardest to please. If they tell me they can get it done cheaper I tell them that's OK in a sincere manner. I sell quality and cut rate prices aren't part of that. In a lot of instances I will see that customer later to correct the cut-rate job they got.

From what I have read in this thread I wouldn't be concerned about buying from Naylor racing. I doubt that I ever will because I have a a machine shop that is local to me that does great work and is easy to deal with. I might be able to find a cheaper one but I trust these guys. I do my own assembly.

[Harbone]

Opinions are like A**holes, everyone has one. It seems like your opinion of yourself you know everything, everyone else is wrong, you have all the right answers. Where is all this positive feedback for Naylor you keep referencing? I have yet to see any.
As for my honest opinion of you I could give a sh*t less what YOUR opinions are.
However, I am interested in hearing some of the other racers opinions.

Speaking of azzholes, you are starting to sound just like one. You wont last much longer on this forum talking like that and any opinion YOU have from this point on probably wont mean jackshit to anyone on here. So just keep shooting off your mouth and see what it gets you...

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/1152/stfugtfo.jpg

[mrmopar622]

Harbone
RACING JUNKIE


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 2887


Speaking of A**holes, you are one. This is a user feedback & scam watch forum. As for your opinion, you know where you can stick that.

[Harbone]

Harbone
RACING JUNKIE


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 2887


Speaking of A**holes, you are one. This is a user feedback & scam watch forum. As for your opinion, you know where you can stick that.

Same to you buddy, no wonder Naylor wont come back, you probably remind him of ex-wife that just nagged, nagged, nagged.
My opinion is it would not have mattered who built your motor, you would have never been happy. People on here tried to help you and give you their opinions (when you asked) and all you did was turn to name calling.
So in the end it seems that all that matters is just YOUR opinion and nobody elses? Take it somewhere else and leave this section for people who actually have problems...

http://2long4twitter.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/fart.jpg

[mrmopar622]

Harbone
RACING JUNKIE


This is the user feedback & scammer watch forum for problem solving. That means for people with usable information not fools like you who only want to run their mouth.

[Harbone]

I have solved a lot of people problems on this feedback forum over the years but the people that you are bashing are guys that have also been on here for years helping people. When they tried to help you and give you opinions, you turned to name calling. I wont stand for that, especially towards Rabbit, Hammertime or shawnp. I figure it wont be long before this post gets locked so...

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/119390/2581326-indiana_jones___in_before_the_lock.gif

[mrmopar622]

Harbone
RACING JUNKIE

You say you have solved many problems in the past, you may have, but you have not done anything constructive here!! You are the one coming on here & doing the bashing, are you some old man that does not have anything to do but sit around and put your nose where it does not belong? I see you have a lot of posts, others may have tolerated your smart mouth, but don't think for an instant I will tolerate it!!
If someone has any input to this subject I will try to answer them the best I can, if they don't understand my answer all they have to do is ask & I will try again!! If someone posts something & I have questions I will ask them directly.

[Harbone]

There is nothing constructive to do here and you have been bashing people for the last couple of pages. Shitz just getting old. People tried to give you answers but you wont accept them, all you want to do is keep crying, bitching and name calling. Time to put this one to rest...

[mrmopar622]

Harbone
RACING JUNKIE
If its old and you don't like it,don't have anything to contribute,why do you keep coming on here oldie?
:lol:

[Harbone]

Harbone
RACING JUNKIE
If its old and you don't like it,don't have anything to contribute,why do you keep coming on here oldie?
:lol:

Really, thats all you have? :roll:

[hammertime]

Any single chance you had of getting help from Naylor or anyone about whats going on went out the door awhile ago ... your defensive, hide info (true dyno sheets) and act like your above anyone's help here... give it a rest because all you have done here is prove over and over again why Naylor shouldn't help you .... your impossible to deal with it & proved it !

[mrmopar622]

Really, thats all you have? Rolling Eyes
_________________
Chris

Yes Chris,That all I have!*! Ain't it your bedtime, I know sometimes you oldie's are forgetful ?!? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[mrmopar622]

Any single chance you had of getting help from Naylor or anyone about whats going on went out the door awhile ago ... your defensive, hide info (true dyno sheets) and act like your above anyone's help here... give it a rest because all you have done here is prove over and over again why Naylor shouldn't help you .... your impossible to deal with it & proved it !

I'm still waiting on your answer,or you ready to put your money where your mouth is yet?

[Harbone]

Really, thats all you have? Rolling Eyes
_________________
Chris

Yes Chris,That all I have!*! Ain't it your bedtime, I know sometimes you oldie's are forgetful ?!? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

What are you 12??? You think I am old? Your profile says you have been racing for 37 years, that makes you older than me even if you started racing at 10.
You know the reason why Naylor stopped talking to you :?:

YOU!!!

:lol:

[hammertime]

Any single chance you had of getting help from Naylor or anyone about whats going on went out the door awhile ago ... your defensive, hide info (true dyno sheets) and act like your above anyone's help here... give it a rest because all you have done here is prove over and over again why Naylor shouldn't help you .... your impossible to deal with it & proved it !

I'm still waiting on your answer,or you ready to put your money where your mouth is yet?

I gave you my answer ...its a dyno !! You should do some research.. your making yourself looks silly. I still don't see a real dyno sheet posted by you yet either ! :!: :roll:

[hammertime]

Just because you mentioned take it to Huntsville in a post .. a small search about a engine they did

The dyno numbers looked good,” said Todd Ewing of Huntsville Engine & Performance. “But as a racer myself, I know that the dyno isn’t the test. Racers don’t compare dyno sheets, they compare time slips. So it doesn’t mean a thing until we can translate it to the race track.”

[mrmopar622]

I'm still waiting on your answer,or you ready to put your money where your mouth is yet?[/quote]

I gave you my answer ...its a dyno !! You should do some research.. your making yourself looks silly. I still don't see a real dyno sheet posted by you yet either ! :!: :roll:[/quote]


Since the start you are the one that has been saying dynos vary 200 hp from one to the other. Put your money where your mouth is. You seem to favor Huntsville Engines, we can both agree to let them dyno the engine and put our money up and I will bring the engine and the dyno sheets I posted on here. If the engine makes 200 hp more, you win the money, if not, I win the money. Let's see who looks silly then!

[hammertime]

I am still waiting on a real dyno sheet to see if you had other issues ....

Cam in that engine .. is good to go and proven many times over, its actually a very commonly used cam for 582+ CI .. (not that you know anything about cams)

Heads on the engine ... Surely not the issue why its laying over at 6200 rpms.. them heads have been used for years and years on 555+ ci engines and make good power.

Compression is plenty high enough to make power

Intake flows plenty of air to pull above 6200

So that leaves us with ... well you already know where ...

So back to wanting to see real data on a real dyno sheet .... or do you not have the sheets to show that ?

Another view at this ... maybe your not showing a real sheet because you know something on your end is screwed up and you need $ to fix it and want Naylor to pay for it ... maybe your trying to scam him out of $ ....

How does one get a super deal on a engine .. and then piss and moan after you cant get your shit together to dyno it where it should of been in the first place ... its people like you who ruin getting good deals for customers who aren't clueless ... its a real shame you don't do your homework on your entire combo, dynos and injection

[mrmopar622]

I am still waiting on a real dyno sheet to see if you had other issues ....

Cam in that engine .. is good to go and proven many times over, its actually a very commonly used cam for 582+ CI .. (not that you know anything about cams)

Heads on the engine ... Surely not the issue why its laying over at 6200 rpms.. them heads have been used for years and years on 555+ ci engines and make good power.

Compression is plenty high enough to make power

Intake flows plenty of air to pull above 6200

So that leaves us with ... well you already know where ...

So back to wanting to see real data on a real dyno sheet .... or do you not have the sheets to show that ?

Another view at this ... maybe your not showing a real sheet because you know something on your end is screwed up and you need $ to fix it and want Naylor to pay for it ... maybe your trying to scam him out of $ ....

How does one get a super deal on a engine .. and then piss and moan after you cant get your s together to dyno it where it should of been in the first place ... its people like you who ruin getting good deals for customers who aren't clueless ... its a real shame you don't do your homework on your entire combo, dynos and injection

Since the start you are the one that has been saying dynos vary 200 hp from one to the other. Put your money where your mouth is. You seem to favor Huntsville Engines, we can both agree to let them dyno the engine and put our money up and I will bring the engine and the dyno sheets I posted on here. If the engine makes 200 hp more, you win the money, if not, I win the money. Let's see who looks silly then!

[TheRabbit]

I'll add $.02 more of my cents to this. If this were my motor and it did have some issues when I installed it I have a good enough relationship and trust with my builder that it would be repaired by him without any problem. He would also help me if I needed his help to resove the fuel issues.

I will also add I'm not a wiz at working on a dyno, but I promise you my motor guy can make the dyno results say anything you want it to. + or - 200 hp no problem.

Again jmo, but this thread is beyond getting anything resolved.

[BEAST477]

Wow this is still going on? Have you done any research as to why your engine falls off at 6200? I would figure that out and I wouldn't be surprised that you find your missing 150hp. Just a guess but what do I know. Definitly not as much as some of the others that tried to help you. Ok let it rip I can take it.

[Scooterz]

Wow this is still going on? Have you done any research as to why your engine falls off at 6200? I would figure that out and I wouldn't be surprised that you find your missing 150hp. Just a guess but what do I know. Definitly not as much as some of the others that tried to help you. Ok let it rip I can take it.

True Beast... I don't know as much as most of them either... it is weird the motor falls at 6200.

I was thinking this thing would be resolved by now (I have been gone for a while). I can see this is looking like a futile deal. I know that I have defended him here on this thread some; but talking SMACK to my friends is not going to work here... makes it not matter what happened.... just minimizes anything that could have been discussed in a adult manner. So why is the motor falling at 6200??? Is it the cam???

[mrmopar622]

Wow this is still going on? Have you done any research as to why your engine falls off at 6200? I would figure that out and I wouldn't be surprised that you find your missing 150hp. Just a guess but what do I know. Definitly not as much as some of the others that tried to help you. Ok let it rip I can take it.

True Beast... I don't know as much as most of them either... it is weird the motor falls at 6200.

I was thinking this thing would be resolved by now (I have been gone for a while). I can see this is looking like a futile deal. I know that I have defended him here on this thread some; but talking SMACK to my friends is not going to work here... makes it not matter what happened.... just minimizes anything that could have been discussed in a adult manner. So why is the motor falling at 6200??? Is it the cam???

Sorry I haven't been back to answer everyone's questions, but been very busy this week. In next post I will explain.

As for the engine falling off after 6400 rpm it could be several things. If you look at the performance graph I included with the dyno results, you can see how smooth & straight the lines are, there is no fuel or ignition related problems. We turned the engine to 7200 rpm it did not miss a beat, have any fuel problems, just started dropping hp after 6400 rpm. From the looks of the intake & exhaust port there has been very little to no machine work done on the heads, from the way they had double stacked the intake gaskets instead of using the proper one and using 1/2" of silicone in the end rails of intake instead of making a spacer, you have to wonder about the quality of work that was done on the heads. Even though the cam is a little to small, there is a possibility it is not degreed correctly.
Here is something my lawyer caught, the only input Naylor offered was the two engine build sheets. One was a copy of my 632 cu in engine build with the Dart heads the other he claimed was the engine build with the Brodix Head Hunter heads. The one he claimed he offered me that would make the 1100+hp, the one I could not afford, was a 600 cu in engine build. With reference to his ads on RJ, my lawyer said perhaps Naylor built me a 600 cu in engine in place of a 632 cu in engine. That could very well be a reason for the horsepower not being what I bought. I did not want to pull the heads or do anything else to the engine without Naylor's consent. Because I had already made my mind up if he was not willing to make things right or compensate me, I would go to the next step, hiring a lawyer.

[mrmopar622]

I was hoping Jimmy Naylor would come on here and with your help, he and I could work things out. By now it should be crystal clear to everyone Naylor is not willing to do that. Before I found out about the scammer watch on here I had made my mind up, if Naylor did not do the right thing, I would get a lawyer and take it to court. I have been waiting on my W-2 to make sure I would not have to pay like last year before I proceeded. My lawyer who is also a racer, said my record keeping(with Naylor's permission taping all phone conversations, keeping all emails and having all receipts) would be a big plus. I have never been a big fan of suing people, but sometimes people leave you no alternative. When all is said and done, if anyone wants, I will come back with updates on how things turned out.

[wazup]

I am like everyone else i have no dog in this fight. I have watch this thread from the start. I would have no problem also dealing with Jimmy or referring anyone to him. I have seen his engines for many years running with good power in a variety of different cars.

Billy you have every wright to get what you paid for regaurdless of the deal he made with you. I think you got a hell of a deal!!! I too have seen where dyno's very from outside ones to inside ones and controlled dyno's. My thoughts on dyno's is for breaking in a engine and finding a base line tune for that engine, as for why the engine falls off thats anyones geuss with out seeing it for them self.

Billy getting into a pissing match with the guys on here is going to get you nowhere. I know you are frustrated and it sounds like you want to take it out on someone. David (Hammertime) is only trying to help and if he's asking you for the dyno sheet that shows something of intrest to him then you should post it. I will say this i've only been on here for a short time and if you want results these guys will get to the bottom of them as for scammers. I dont beleive you have been scammed but not satisfied.

Billy there is one thing on your last posts you made and from others is you have already madeup your mind that you are going to sue Jimmy. I have read where you said from the begining that you recorded phones calls, saved emails ect. thats telling me you knew this was coming and you just wanted to see how many people would ride along. I think you should just put the engine in you dragster run it and you might just be surprised. I am sorry for you guys that this couldnt have a better out come.

Robert Price

[Scooterz]

Well Said Robert!! Well said.....

[PreciseEngine]

Simply taking it to a superflow dyno instead of the stutska it will show 5+% more hp.Proven time and time again stutska dyno's read low compare to the superflow dyno's.Correction factor is another issue.google it.
If you didn't plan on changing your oil and cutting apart your filter you need a kick in the ass.80 bucks is on you.
As for the intake gaskets yes Nailer should square up with you in my opinion.Otherwise have a nice day you got a gift for 11,500.

P/s no way and I mean no way should that engine fall off at 6400rpm

[wazup]

Billy, whats the latest did you put the engine in and if so how does it run? I see you come on here and check the thread so let us know.