Antiroll Bar

[coolracing]

I am in the market for a antiroll bar and every company has their own design (splined or fixed, bearing or bushing). No matter what one I look at they are all a little different and I have heard some bad about cheap small splined bars, So what the hell one is a good one? Feedback plz...

[zipper06]

4 link or latter bar car?
I can say that not one person that i know here in north Louisanna runs them, they have all tried them and took them off. most of my friends run door cars from low 5 teens to high 5's both latter bar and 4 link cars. Just curious as to why you think they it will help, it doesn't soulve chassis twist.

JMO

Zip.

[coolracing]

Ladder bar car Zip. Buddy had a chevelle that put one on and shaved a ton off his 60ft times. Thats crazy up here in northern wisconsin its rare to see a car without one.

[TheYellaBrick]

An Anti roll bar/ anti sway can work pretty effectively on softer suspensions.
When one side is compressed through weight transfer(a hard launch with body twist) or side ways(hard cornering) That compressed side will, through the bar, pull down the opposite side. Stiffer springs will not allow as much 'body roll' to actuate the anti roll bar action, hence the softer spring rates to make it work.
Full bodied drag cars with soft rear springs and without a bar, will compress and create massive body twist actually unloading the left rear tire and over loading the right. Install and tune an anti roll bar and as that body mass comes down and twists , the bar forces the whole rear body mass the compress EVENLY and load both rear tires EVENLY.

NASCAR Cup went to using soft springs and big sway bars years ago to 'lower' the car mass(center of gravity) on the corners especially on the speedways. I had been using them on MY oval track cars for 4 years before the big boys caught on.

[TheRabbit]

Ladder bar car Zip. Buddy had a chevelle that put one on and shaved a ton off his 60ft times. Thats crazy up here in northern wisconsin its rare to see a car without one.

You want find anything in my area without one. Take 'em off and the front left tire will be 3 feet in the air and the right still on the ground.

[coolracing]

Ladder bar car Zip. Buddy had a chevelle that put one on and shaved a ton off his 60ft times. Thats crazy up here in northern wisconsin its rare to see a car without one.

You want find anything in my area without one. Take 'em off and the front left tire will be 3 feet in the air and the right still on the ground.

Thats what I always thought also.

[TheRabbit]

Mine is an old Competition Engineering.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/rabbit548/AntiRollBar2.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/rabbit548/AntiRollBar1.jpg

[coolracing]

Have you had any problems with the aluminum arms Rabbit? Couple cars up here were cracking the arms and I also have talked to some guys that twisted splines on the spline shaft style.

[TheRabbit]

I don't see how they crack the arm's unless they have a bunch a preload in them. IMO they are probably trying to fix a set up problem with the anti roll bar.
I do have some preload and as you can tell my truck runs on some pretty rough tracks. I have about 4"'s of full travel on the rear.
Truck is probably close to 500 to 600 passes on it.

[coolracing]

Thanks Rabbit just ordered one from RJ Race Cars I went with the Pro Series kit. Was a little more cost eff.

[bbchevy]

Thanks Rabbit just ordered one from RJ Race Cars I went with the Pro Series kit. Was a little more cost eff.

Thats PROBABLY 1 of the Nices Kits on the Market!
Later
G 8)

[TheYellaBrick]

Re; cracked arms,
Those cars probably had a BUNCH of suspension compression from soft springs, coupled with a TON of torque that wanted to cause a lot of body roll, and maybe too stiff an anti roll bar. All that together against the anti roll bar and SOMEthing is under WAY high stress , arms and splines.

We've all seen that 60's Belair that launches so hard it looks like it's gonna flip over sideways. THAT is the kinda action I'm talking about. If he had a little stiffer rear springs along with an anti roll bar, he'd launch flatter and his 60 foot times would dive. All that energy to twist that body and lift that one front tire, put into forward motion would result in overall faster times.

This one here. watch how much time he spends just gettin' outa the hole. Imagine how high the pucker factor is driving this !

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJA_urCmSls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV4_HeW2j_M&feature=related

[coolracing]

Re; cracked arms,
Those cars probably had a BUNCH of suspension compression from soft springs, coupled with a TON of torque that wanted to cause a lot of body roll, and maybe too stiff an anti roll bar. All that together against the anti roll bar and SOMEthing is under WAY high stress , arms and splines.

We've all seen that 60's Belair that launches so hard it looks like it's gonna flip over sideways. THAT is the kinda action I'm talking about. If he had a little stiffer rear springs along with an anti roll bar, he'd launch flatter and his 60 foot times would dive. All that energy to twist that body and lift that one front tire, put into forward motion would result in overall faster times.

This one here. watch how much time he spends just gettin' outa the hole. Imagine how high the pucker factor is driving this !

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJA_urCmSls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV4_HeW2j_M&feature=related




Ya he is a regular at my home track WIR he is more about putting on a good show then runnin a good number. But I got to admit he is a crowd pleasure! I get when ur comin from with that Double D.

[fast75vega]

. Just curious as to why you think they it will help, it doesn't soulve chassis twist.

JMO

Zip.

thats exactly what i seen it do.... cars i seen leave damn near lvl with them in the rear and b4 had the left wheel up and the right still on the ground and bar was the only thing changed :wink:

[bbchevy]

Well,I'll Be the Test Mule on this!
Cause I Have a Kit on the Way!!!
My Chassis Guy is 1 of the BEST in the Business,He set my car up.After seeing several Picts with the Left Frt.3' in the Air and the Right skiming the Pavement?
He Told me?G,we NEEDS a Anti-Roll!!!!!!!
So,.................?
Later
G 8)

[JEFF69Z28]

Well,I'll Be the Test Mule on this!
Cause I Have a Kit on the Way!!!
My Chassis Guy is 1 of the BEST in the Business,He set my car up.After seeing several Picts with the Left Frt.3' in the Air and the Right skiming the Pavement?
He Told me?G,we NEEDS a Anti-Roll!!!!!!!
So,.................?
Later
G 8)
And a 14 point roll cage to stiffen the body up and for saftey.

[TheYellaBrick]

X2 on the cage. Figure that a full length cage system as a 'bridge'. It will make your whole platform rigid and stable, allowing for more accurate and consistent suspension tuning. Also think TRIANGULATION as that is the STRONGEST and safest !

[bbchevy]

Well IF it were a Full Tube Car that would Not be a Issue?But for Now the 12pt Cage will have to do!
Being that MOST of My Problem is Body Roll and Not Chassis Flexing,we will Deal with IT?
In all Reality,Its only about 12-14" difference from Left to right.If it was 36"s then there would Obviously be Other Issues!!!
THANKS!
G 8)

[TheYellaBrick]

A 12 point is way better than a 4pt. You'll be fine. Keep us all posted on your progress and trials and tribulations. Remember that you do NOT want to adjust a bunch of preload as this will REALLY stress the arms and splines.Let it work naturally as designed. You will probably be trying different spring rates left to right.IE; a tad stiffer on the right and good/new adjustable shocks.

Set up a base line and KEEP ACCURATE NOTES on each and every adjustment noting the results. ONLY make ONE adjustment at a time, as you can get totally lost if you make more. Make this a science project cuz it takes this approach to be fast and CONSISTENT ! It WILL pay off.

HAVE FUN !!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[JEFF69Z28]

Well IF it were a Full Tube Car that would Not be a Issue?But for Now the 12pt Cage will have to do!
Being that MOST of My Problem is Body Roll and Not Chassis Flexing,we will Deal with IT?
In all Reality,Its only about 12-14" difference from Left to right.If it was 36"s then there would Obviously be Other Issues!!!
THANKS!
G 8)
What kind of car is this going on?

[bbchevy]

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/blwn38/race%20car/loganskidoo1.jpg

The Car is a 1st Gen.Camaro.B/Half 4-Link.
Hopefully the Picts will work,I'm Learning Daily!
Later
G 8)

I will Keep you Posted,We have a ways to go as for RACE Season here in N/Michigan.Prob.April before I get out?(IF)The Economy gets better SOON,and I can move some Parts?I Want to Put some MORE HP in the Car?Nice thing,the 496 is Avalible for another Season,if Not,.......?

[TheYellaBrick]

As narrow as that rear end is, you are going to need a pretty beefy bar to make it work as designed.

-------

[TheRabbit]

My rear is only 45" from flange to flange. The anti roll bar is 22" wide.

If that helps any.

[zipper06]

I'm only following up on what i said before, almost most nobody i know runs and anti roll bar setup.It has a lot to do with the setup. My car with a 4 link back half pulls the left front tire about 4" 12 point cage stock front end and you can wave to the side lines down the track, it runs that straight, but only runs 6,50's

68 ladder bar,12 point cage. 1.31 60' 3,000 lbs, 383, no anti roll Rabbit saw it run 2 5.90 runs at Byhalia Ms, in Oct. 2010 before it broke a valve head off.Car only has frame ties stock front suspension

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/zipper2/Tracyscar.jpg

car in the far lane

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/zipper2/th_oct16th003.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v515/zipper2/?action=view&current=oct16th003.mp4)

3700 lbs less driver, no anti roll ladder bar car 14 point cage.9.77 @ 138 and change

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/zipper2/Ronnies66Biscyne001.jpg

3,000 lbs plus 582" motor, all steel except front end, strut front end, original cab and glass all roll up glass with stock original frame, high 5.30 all day long, carries the front wheels atleast 60' and totally square

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/zipper2/100_0720-1.jpg

[coolracing]

Zip I think what your seeing is that you can set up a car properly to run without a antiroll bar as seen in your pics, but with a properly setup suspension with a antiroll bar it will do nothing more than help your race car. So in my opinion do you have to have one? Its your car you decide, but if its gonna shave time off your E.T.'s DAMN rite you'll buy one...

[TheYellaBrick]

As I've already stated, anti roll bars work BEST with softer springs to allow suspension COMPRESSION. Zip, it appears those cars are running tighter springs, thus LESSENING the need for an anti roll bar. What ever works for the individual car/driver/tuner.
That big ol' Chevy with the wheels up attitude looks like it FLIES. Takes a TON of torque to do that in a heavy car like that.

[TheRabbit]

Zip, I wasn't trying to say you had to have one. As you know every car or truck is different.
I was just giving him info on what I had.

[zipper06]

Zip, I wasn't trying to say you had to have one. As you know every car or truck is different.
I was just giving him info on what I had.

I know Rabbit and i can certainly see and understand why you need one on your truck, with the rough and always changing conditions of the mud you run in.
I was just giving some examples of a couple of cars that don't have the anti-roll setup and preform quiet well for what they are and have.

Zip.

[coolracing]

My biggest reason for wanting a antiroll bar is I am building a new car and dont want to short change myself and not doing something when it was easy to install it. It is no different than installing a chute on the car but never going faster than 10's, but the way I see it is its there if you ever need it or want to go faster! I look at it when building new, do everything you can the first time so there no going back to redo something.

[zipper06]

Cool, i'm not disagreeing with you guys, it's just that i have scales available which are absolutely necessary to set up a car properly, once i know the CG, it's relatively easy to set one up, since i've figured out what spring rate to run with the weigh of the car and how much preload to put in the car. I know a lot of people donot have scales.
I'm in th process of building a 1948 1471 blown alcohol sm/blk Anglia with a 92" wheelbase at 1800 lbs. I'm probably going to put an anti-roll setup on it due to about 1500HP and a really short wheelbase, which will for sure be a hand full all the way down the track. I only plan to run 1/8 mi, because i don't feel safe running a 180 mph in that short of a wheelbase car. I hope i haven't pissed anyone off, i was just trying to say if a person is on a budget and some are, i most certaianly am being on SS, the anti-roll is not always necessary.

PEACE

Zip.

[bbchevy]

John,
I ABSOLUTALLY VALUE you and All of your INPUT!!!
Your Knowledge and Experience Far Outweighs Mine,I just Try to keep a Open Mind,................?\
THANKS!
G 8)

[coolracing]

God no Zip I greatly appreciate any input... Thats what this place is for and thats why we all keep coming back to these forums. Thanks Everyone!

[coolracing]

I'm in th process of building a 1948 1471 blown alcohol sm/blk

Pics Plz.... :D

[rickycampbell]

I just bought a tube chassis 85 T/A and the ladder bar rear was already installed but i can move the rear about a inch side to side. I Know it needs a track bar. Is there anything i need to do before installing the track bar?
R.C.

[TheYellaBrick]

Pics Please so we can see what ya have.

[coolracing]

[quote="rickycampbell"]I just bought a tube chassis 85 T/A and the ladder bar rear was already installed but i can move the rear about a inch side to side. I Know it needs a track bar. Is there anything i need to do before installing the track bar?
R.C.[/quote. Well you have a problem there! Does it have a diagonal link or wishbone? It's gotta have something broke wore out or missing! Shouldn't be able to move side to side!