Venting

[bixblk]

Hurt the motor less than 3 miles no runs, really pissed off not looking forward to the next couple of disccusions I will have shortlt,,,,,,,just venting
Jeff

[bjuice]

Hurt the motor less than 3 miles no runs, really pissed off not looking forward to the next couple of disccusions I will have shortlt,,,,,,,just venting
Jeff

ok to vent but make a little sense so we understand what your venting about ....k ?

[fla1976]

I believe it is about the engine overheating and popping three freeze plugs. Sounds like bad news.

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=16682

[BEAST477]

I believe it is about the engine overheating and popping three freeze plugs. Sounds like bad news.

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=16682


Damn. Treed again. :wink:

[Scooterz]

Here is what Jeff is talking about:

I am not going to pretend to understand all this; but I have never had a freeze plug get so cold it worked its way out.... had a few motors exceed a little over 200 w/o damage too. Anyways Jeff, try to stay cool (I know its hard) until you you have evidence of what really occurred... getting pissed will lower your intelligence & is not good for future negotiations about this motor dilemma. Be slow to anger & quick to listen until you know every detail.

Need some advice, I started my brand new fresh 496 inch BBC to get it ready for the track. I checked the radiator , it had fluid, i checked the under the car to check for any leaks OK, could not check the oil level because the moroso pan still has the allen in it. fired it up oil pressure came up, let it idle in the garage about 3 minutes checking the oil and water gauges, started to get temp in the motor as per the gauge. drove it approx 2 miles very locally. never ran up the rpms and never saw any smoke till the end. I started to lose oil pressure so i shut the car on the street , it would not shut off because apparently it was very hot , I never saw the temp gauge over 200 (while running) and it would go down when i drove. i had shut off the fuel pump so the motor ended up shutting off maybe 25 secs after turning off the key. Got a couple of guys to help me push it into my drive way. under the motor in the street were 3 freeze plugs.Called the motor builder talk to him. I ran water thru the block just trying to cool it down and of course the water just came pouring out the missing freeze plug holes.2 hours later cool to the touch I started the engine it had oil pressure 60 lbs but I had spoke to the motor guy and he was going to check it out and see whats happening... anyway the motor must have got very hot because it pushed intake gaskets out ,oil around the valve cover bolts, oil smelled bad etc. My motor guy pulled the motor out because of the external evidence of heat... I think what may have happened is the car was in my unheated garage all winter, I was told it had coolant but maybe it just too cold and pushed the freeze plugs out or close to out or maybe got caught on the cross member, because they were not under the car when I started it. I am very pissed off but not sure how to handle this. I spoke to motor guy and I except honesty and fairness but I did nothing to this motor to have it over heat and feel zero responsibility for this . how do you feel . Let me know

[TheYellaBrick]

My observations are;
1 - EVERY Fall when I 'winterize' my race cars, I either drain ALL the coolant out,(including removing the radiator and draining every last drop out of it)
or
2 - I make SURE that my coolant(antifreeze mix) is good for 40 degrees BELOW zero.
Note #1; I NEVER have an engine where I cannot accuratly check my oil level.
Note #2; I ALWAYS epoxy my freeze plugs into the block at time of build up.

[fast75vega]

ive had motors run 240 to 260 due to not turning on fan or water pump on and never lost a freeze plug on any motor.... maybe i just been lucky :wink:

[bixblk]

All good info and great advice,
I will be smart and under control about this
THANKS FOLKS

[MEMRACING62]

did you pay somebody to winterize the motor or did you do it yourself?

[bixblk]

Mike Lopez @ High Speed Performance built my BBC 496 , after paying for the work I went over the particulars about the motor on 10-23-10
Including
Break in oil when he would like regular oil in it (Miles or passes)
What the valves need to be set at Hot and cold
It threw belts during the road test he rebushed the alt, I had told them it was throwing belts
asked about brad penn oil if he liked it
told him I would like to go to the track but becaused it was delayed with the build it may or may not happen, so i asked if it had coolant or water he said coolant
asked about the advantages of a vacum pump and using for my brake booster
talked about the .040 milling of the heads
cam indexing
plugs to use when spraying and not spraying
we went over alot
But the key thing was he knew I keep the car in an unheated garage next to another 70 chevelle with a BBC, that was made clear
That car had coolant for chicagoland weather

It spit out the freeze plugs and over heated. I did do a visual inspection under the car before starting it and I also checked the radiator and it had fluid in it, I suspect it had a air block because i saw fluid, today when I spoke with him and asked if he still had a stance of zero responsibility, he said Yes , because I should have pulled off the radiator cap and checked.

Which I did and had told him that before , so he obviously did not listen to me or did not believe me, either way that was a poor decision, because that shows me he wants to "hide" and skirt his responsibilities.

Anyway proving fault is hard but in the long run not doing the right thing catches up with you. JMO

So to get back to your question I was told the fresh 496 had coolant by the owner of the shop!!!

[lively]

???????? did YOU install the motor in the car???

did it get fired up AFTER the build???

does it have a thermostat ???

i have never PUSHED freeze plugs out from overheating.
i would never start an unfired engine without checking the oil level and fluid in the engine[how possibly can you expect the fluid levels[both] to be right WITHOUT running the engine to the proper temp--you check BEFORE--DURING AND AFTER!!

something has been overlooked here and has cost alot of wasted time and money :oops:

[bixblk]

I did not install the motor High speed did turn key
They said they spun it up on the chasis dyno hazed the tires ????
I drove it around his shop after the install and it threw the belts off of it and Mike rebushed the alt I had told them about this problem earlier and they thought it was alignment, it would seem to me that it would have thrown the belts on the dyno also, another issue ???
they never put a dip stick in the new moroso pan ????
The motor had about 3 street miles on it
Hope that answers your questions,
because I still have alot of unanswered questions from the builder ?
We will see what happens, hopefully the right thing
Jeff m 708-308-0282

[fla1976]

Is this the shop that did the install?

http://www.highspeedperf.com/

[bixblk]

Yes
That is the shop, I have been doing busniess with them for about 8 to 9 years. They were located in the crestwood area before mokena, I even offered to let them use my trailor to help them move to their current location a few years ago.
Also I have told others about their services and have distributed fliers for them to help busniess for them. I am sure that I have generated some work for them.

[lively]

I did not install the motor High speed did turn key
They said they spun it up on the chasis dyno hazed the tires ????
I drove it around his shop after the install and it threw the belts off of it and Mike rebushed the alt I had told them about this problem earlier and they thought it was alignment, it would seem to me that it would have thrown the belts on the dyno also, another issue ???
they never put a dip stick in the new moroso pan ????
The motor had about 3 street miles on it
Hope that answers your questions,
because I still have alot of unanswered questions from the builder ?
We will see what happens, hopefully the right thing
Jeff m 708-308-0282

WOW--THAT IS NOT GOOD
I THINK SOMEONE FORGOT TO REALLY CHECK THE ANTIFREEZE CORRECTLY. 8)

If it was fired up and run there/you drove it/ and they fixed the alternator/ and you ran it again !!! they will try to blame you for living in a COLD spot-but- you told them where it was going to be stored--frozen engines tend to crack as well as push the plugs[better check it well]--

i feel if they did the work and you have a receipt showing all the details including the antifreeze they installed for YOUR area -then they need to help you out help someway 8)


good luck--and sorry this happened to you--metal and men both fail at times :cry:

[bixblk]

Thanks, for the support I feel the same
This will be a battle that I will need to engage in, if everyone tells the truth and is honest the right thing will happen. Often times that does not happen because "other things" get in the way. Sorta a shame because they do good work, but this one seems to have fallin' thru the cracks. A big part of busniess is how they deal with issues like this. Hoping the outcome is proper, but based on the last three conversations with the staff (2) mike(owner) and (1) with Zap (engine builder) their stance is 0 liability. Hopefully they will call and change that stance before it escalates to "a point of no return" I think no one wants thats. But both of us are stubborn and prepared .we will see what happens ?

[TheYellaBrick]

YOU as the car OWNER need to take SOME of the responsibility on this.

#1 - Why didn't YOU double check the coolant's freezing point YOURSELF ?

#2 - YOU the car owner, should have INSISTED that there be a dipstick installed on YOUR engine BEFORE it left THEIR shop.

There is NO WAY any Hi Po engine builder will guarantee ANY Hi Po engine used in a Hi Po application. Many will work with their customers if it is OBVIOUS that any major failure or tuning issue was the absolute fault of their workmanship.

[ajk]

YOU as the car OWNER need to take SOME of the responsibility on this.

#1 - Why didn't YOU double check the coolant's freezing point YOURSELF ?

#2 - YOU the car owner, should have INSISTED that there be a dipstick installed on YOUR engine BEFORE it left THEIR shop.

There is NO WAY any Hi Po engine builder will guarantee ANY Hi Po engine used in a Hi Po application. Many will work with their customers if it is OBVIOUS that any major failure or tuning issue was the absolute fault of their workmanship. Have to agree with this.

[bixblk]

I appreciate your opinion, here is why I feel I have no resposibility on this (yet) 1. The build was brand new I did not think checking on his work would be needed till I ran the car.2.They have done work in the past for me including motors so I took his word for it. If we cannot believe what we are told were do we start and stop with checking workmanship. Do I check valve lash immediately? he says he set them properly, do I start checking for proper cam timing/indexing ? he says he did that.Is the spark plug gap proper ,he says he did that, ,or is that things that should be checked after you drive the car more than 3 miles. I think that they should be checked after some break in time. Is it still my carb on the motor, with the same jets, are those still my new heads, is it a roller cam, new rockers like the reciept says, honest if you lose creditibility with your words, where do you start to check and stop trusting someones word. It was made clear to me the car could be parked for the winter in my unheated garage, just as other motors he has done for me in the past in the same car parked in the same location You do understand it was a brand new build. Approx 3 miles and maybe 25 minutes of running time. He lives in the area and knows the weather we have, as far as the dip stick I was going to put one in with the first oil change. Insisting with Mike is sorta hard, he tends to do things his way to try and keep things in order, and is not open to critism or ideas. That can be a good and bad. You can ask but it may or may not happen. Your points are well taken but I do disagree. As far as warranty/guarantee all that I ask is that I get what I paid for and honesty. Do you feel I got that, I feel I did not.So thats the warranty/guarantee I need. As far as working with me on this, the reponse of zero liability (x3) tells me he feels no responsibilty. I know I do this for fun, playing with cars is my escape. Stuff will break. But people in general need to take resposibilities for their actions,
Thanks for your opinion, I have read you links and responses to many threads here on RJ and agree with alot of them, just not this one.
I think other valid opinions help me to see things in a different way, and shed light on the issue, thanks but I feel Zero resposibility, it was just plain too new.
Jeff M.

[lively]

YOU as the car OWNER need to take SOME of the responsibility on this.

#1 - Why didn't YOU double check the coolant's freezing point YOURSELF ?

#2 - YOU the car owner, should have INSISTED that there be a dipstick installed on YOUR engine BEFORE it left THEIR shop.

There is NO WAY any Hi Po engine builder will guarantee ANY Hi Po engine used in a Hi Po application. Many will work with their customers if it is OBVIOUS that any major failure or tuning issue was the absolute fault of their workmanship. Have to agree with this.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$


i really don't care if the best engine builder in the world puts an engine in my car---IT IS STILL 1000% YOUR RESPONSIBILTY TO DO THIS BASIC CHECKS ON YOUR OWN AT ALL TIMES 8) plus --i will never start an engine up without a proper way [DIPSTICK] to check the oil level


IT IS CALLED (COMMON SINCE] :wink: i know that has been lost on alot of people in the last few years :roll:

[bixblk]

Your are right about the common sense part !

[Scooterz]

I don't know... I am not a expert... but this does not add up. I would like to believe that if your motor was filled with the proper oil level, antifreeze, belts are right, upon install combined with being a brand new motor, you should not have these issues. I hear of people who "break their motors in at the track" & hammer down on them ASAP... no issues. If I understood you correctly, you went around 3 miles not even getting on it & shut it down @ 200 degrees. It is hard to believe that someone took the time to build an HP motor & didn't fill it with the proper lubricants??? That you could not take it for a short drive w/o popping out the freeze plugs & overheating??? The motor was built, tested, dyno'd, etc... but a short drive & all of this damage??? I have to agree with you- I would expect more than that. We can criticize Jeff here; but I don't think he is some unacknowledged, unsuspecting person who happened to forget the oil/antifreeze level on his brand new HP motor he probably spent THOUSANDS on... could it be that they did not mill the heads properly?? Could it be that freeze plugs were not done right or a piston-ring was cracked/wrong etc... could it be that there was a coolant blockage somewhere/gasket issue??? I would do a VERY CLOSE AUTOPSY & find out more. Keep your cool Jeff & keep digging the facts...

[bixblk]

Thats exactly right, I was monitoring water temp and oil for a very short 2 to 3 mile run not even taking it pass 3000 rpms, breaking it in, listening paying attention, it was the first time on the street,unless you consider going around the shop in the parking lot. Here is my best guess, please consider this : The freeze plugs were either not in all the way or pushed out and got cocked from "improper coolant" or they may have fell out and they laid on the cross member, I did look under the car before I started it to look for leaks stains or anything that would cause me not to start it, no leaks or stains or freeze plugs, so truely I had no reason to believe the motor would have any issues what so ever. fired it up, great oil pressure 60 lbs the temp gauge took about 1 minute to start moving up. Now remember they are made to read fluid not block air temp. I put the car in gear and drove it keeping an eye on the gauges, never went about 200 (near the end) 2 / 3 miles later the oil pressure starting dropping because the clearances were getting tight, I saw oil pressure moving downward shut off the fuel pump turned off the key and the motor stayed running about 20 secs because of the heat in it. Called the builder, after pushing it home (with help),found (3) Freeze plugs under the car when we started to push it ,told him the story, he suggested letting it cool down and starting it to see if had oil pressure, I ran water thru it it just ran thru because of the missing freeze plugs, but it was hot so I just ran it thru anyway
Cool to the touch I fired it and it had 60 lbs of oil pressure, ran it 20 secs up to the trailor (about 25 feet) and shut it down, because now it is air cooled, winched it up took it to mike to put the freeze plugs back in it ?????? called friday come get your car we pulled the motor because of the visual heat damage, now that was unauthorized work. We never talked about yanking the motor, we spoke, he said he needed to look at it so he dissassembled the motor (again unauthorized) and Zap told me that it looked like the parts are good but saw alot of heat, it did melt the cam button and had oil stain all around, now no way of telling what happened because I need to take his word on it ?????
Thats the story.
Also I do not feel like anyone is critizing me, a great pratice is to pay attention and check things before firing , which I did . Maybe I was not clear about that. Also we have many different "levels of car guys" and people on this site, and the basics are always a great place to start, I understand. I read alot of opinions on here and I am fasinated by the general knowledge. I got no hurt feelings on the comments, keep them coming. They keep me thing and thats fine.
We will see how this all turns out, hopefully the right thing will happen.

[MEMRACING62]

Mike lopez / high speed preformance is one of the best shops in the area. I hope both of you work this out in a way that is fair to both.

[bixblk]

I agree, that is why I have been using his services for 9 years, I know he stays on top of the work done, but clearly this "job" needs to be worked out. Also from a busniess point of view it would be short sited of him to burn this relationship, I am still going to need alot of stuff done and I have been an excellent cash customer. In fact Mike owed me 2400 for over a 15 months on a 383 sbc that I sold to him that he freshed up and put in a customers car, it took awhile for him to pay me. I never pressed him for it. He also delayed paying me on a T 10 trans that I sold him and saw it for sale at a couple of swap meets. Shame on me ....so I have done my end to help Mike out, now it is time for him to do the right thing. I will promise you folks this, I will not talk bad about his work but as far as this job goes..... we will see.
I appreciate your opinion and respect it, lets hope this works out.
If it does not work out, I will put the facts in this thread. Than people can develope their own opinion.

[bixblk]

Had a third party look at the motor, it does not look good. I gave High Speed Performance a chance (x3) to make it right. When we picked the dissassembled 496 BBC the owner and the builder were there and neither one talked to me about making this right, they did give us a hand putting it the truck and besides some "body langauge" and "posturing" nothing was said about this . I am just a small time racer with a family and ready to go fast and this type of bull shi. happens, sorry to say but they "are not welcome in my pit." Not sure where I am going with this yet. But this cost me alot of money and I will not forget that.
Hey I hope others have better experiences. I still will not threw mud because I am a man of my word, but others are not.
Call with questions
Jeff M 708-308-0282

[mopar1968]

I have read this entire thread, You mean to tell us that you didn't think it were your RESPONSIBILTY to check the coolant before winter :?: Just how long have you been racing :?: I don't know of a race engine builder that will even warranty a engine :!: Yes sir it is up to you to check it, I run pure water during race season and when it is time to stable her i always drain and fill her 70/30 coolant and water then run her to get it mixed up and thru out engine :!: JMO

Mark

[fast75vega]

I have read this entire thread, You mean to tell us that you didn't think it were your RESPONSIBILTY to check the coolant before winter :?: Just how long have you been racing :?: I don't know of a race engine builder that will even warranty a engine :!: Yes sir it is up to you to check it, I run pure water during race season and when it is time to stable her i always drain and fill her 70/30 coolant and water then run her to get it mixed up and thru out engine :!: JMO

Mark

yes sir..... i agree 100%! yes it sucks but it is what it is :wink:

[MEMRACING62]

I have read this entire thread, You mean to tell us that you didn't think it were your RESPONSIBILTY to check the coolant before winter :?: Just how long have you been racing :?: I don't know of a race engine builder that will even warranty a engine :!: Yes sir it is up to you to check it, I run pure water during race season and when it is time to stable her i always drain and fill her 70/30 coolant and water then run her to get it mixed up and thru out engine :!: JMO

Mark yup...that about sums it up...a bitter pill to swallow & I bet it never happens again. I had that happen to a friend that I built a motor for, left it full of water when we went deer hunting & a cold spell hit when we were gone...snapped the block...you will be lucky if that didn't happen here.jmo

[bixblk]

Just to remind everyone:
The car was picked up in late oct fresh motor and winterized, I specifically asked if it had water or coolant, Mike said coolant. I told him the car would be parked in an unheated garage next to another chevelle. If you read the thread you would have read that. Upon pick up from the shop in Oct the car went around the block at his shop threw the belts, mike rebushed the alt and they seemed to hold , the car got put on the trailer and put in the unheated garage. In case I was not clear earlier. I did check the radiator LEVEL, when I put the car in the garage in Oct because it had thrown the belt, no I did not check the specific gravity or the proper ratio or quality of the coolant, it certainly looked like coolant. It had coolant in it in Oct, as it did when I fired it up the first time in june, I also checked it then, so the radiator had coolant or a fluid that looked like coolant to me.Slightly low but not even enought to add untill I drove it than I would check it. I bumped the motor thru out the winter to change the spring tension on the valve train, but never started it till june. Just to make it clear, YES THE LEVEL WAS CHECKED BOTH IN OCT AND JUNE,NOT THE QUALITY OR PROPER RATIO . and I DID A VISUAL CHECK UNDER THE CAR TO CHECK FOR LEAKS. NO SIGNS OF ANY LEAKS
Mark the car is a street car that goes to the track a dozen times a year,Mike is very aware of that. With the motor build and installed and picked up in Oct, after being delayed for 4 weeks, I told Mike that I was not sure if the car was going to the track in 2010, that is why we specifically talked about coolant. Mike said "IT HAS COOLANT"

If I did not make that part clear, I hope it is now.
So if your comment :You mean to tell us that you didn't think it were your RESPONSIBILTY to check the coolant before winter .

Yes: level checked not quality. And as far as the warranty I need honesty, I need to be told the truth, and the coolant in this case seems to be an issue and also now I have hard evidence that at least some of internal components in the motor were not as represented.
Also as far as that dig about my racing time and skill set, I will let that slide. Obviously I know enought to get into trouble. Honest this build was just too damn new to even think it would have any issues, and
I DID A VISUAL CAR INSPECTION AND A COOLANT LEVEL INSPECTION
Also, had I been told that there was water in the motor, I would have probably responded with "why" yapped about the paying a boat load of money for a street car motor that did have coolant and than I would have "winterized" it myself when I got it home. ITS THAT SIMPLE, I NEED THE CORRECT INFORMATION Thats the warranty/honesty ?
Come on, you think I wanted this to happen ?

I am always open to questions and valid critism, we all learn from that,
But I still feel that I based my actions on the info that I was given, and I did do things properly. If I was lied too or something was miscommunicated to me and I was not told the truth, than all bets are off.
In conclusion: Yes it is my job to check things out, which I did... I did a "informal check out list" with Mike when I picked up the car, that I use and go over when I have something build and I am picking it up. Could be a trans, a motor, what ever, it is a piece of paper that I use to write down settings, important info that I may need to maintain the set up, dyno numbers, why it hazed the tires, valve adjustments, NOS questions, etc, and on that sheet I asked about the coolant question.
So the only thing I did wrong "was take a mans word as being truthful"
Jeff 708-308-0282

And mem:
did you tell the guy you built the motor for it had coolant or it had water, if you told him coolant and it had water SHAME ON YOU, IF YOU TOLD HIM IT HAD WATER THAN SHAME ON HIM ?
So yup that sums it up
A very bitter pill to swallow and it will not happen again
And this is not even close to being over, I am getting more info about the build.
Again I got no other problems with high speed and Mike, except this issue. And I am not sure how but it will be worked out.

[MEMRACING62]

In my friends case he assumed his brother put coolant in it & didn't check it himself. I was able to salvage everything except the block. hopefully most of what you have is able to be saved & nothing is cracked or to warped to save.

[bixblk]

I am glad some of the steel from your buddies motor was usable, that may not be the case with mine, a third party is checking things out now. I appreciate your opinions and it sounds like you have done things with Mike in the past, I am pretty confident in his work, but honest this job was not done properly and for Mike not to own up to it upsets me more than the cash spent. I cannot with a good conscience recommend High Speed to anyone any more. He did not even try to talk to me about it. Bad busniess move, cause the short term gain for him may be less than this long term problem?
Hey if have any questions that you may have give me a call I can explain things to you
Jeff M. 708-308-0282

[TheRabbit]

They build and install a motor turn key. I agree it should be a drivable car with no issues. It left their shop without any issues (that they knew of)

You asked if it had "coolant"? To them "coolant" could be straight water.

You should have checked and double checked the "coolant" before cold weather. I panic when it gets real cold and I live in the south!

I find it hard to understand how all the water came out of one freeze plug hole and you never noticed it.
If I were the builder I would not warranty it either.

Think about this as if it were not you.
Several months after a motor was put in a hot rod the guy brings it back and says a freeze plug came out. All the "coolant" leaked out and the motor overheated and he wants it repaired under warranty.

Sorry, but it's not gonna happen.

[bixblk]

your probably right about the outcome, and pretty sure wrong about the rest
JMO

[TheRabbit]

your probably right about the outcome, and pretty sure wrong about the rest JMO

Not being an azz, but if you were right you wouldn't be on here asking about this. It would have already been fixed under warranty.

[bixblk]

Your not being an azz, your right, he will not warranty it, or so far has not. so you are probably correct about the outcome (no warranty work being done)
It boils down to what/who you believe, If you believe what I was told that the car and new motor would be fine parked in an unheated garage thru the winter because it has coolant (anti frfeeze) than you can see my point, if you believe that I did not tell the truth about what happened than the story you told is pausible. The fact is it pushed out multiple freeze plugs beacuse it has "improper" anti freeze in it. Thats should not have happened, I would have put anti freeze in it when I picked it up if I thought any different. But I was told it would be fine.
Also I did not put this in the scammer section and started as "venting" I am pissed that I took his word for it . Thats all I did wrong
For real Rabbit reread the whole thread I think you will agree with me, but if not thats cool, thats why I wrote it the way I did.Stupid ass me took a mans word and believed it to true.
JMO

[fast75vega]

when it comes to my hard earned money...... i wouldnt even take my brothers word on anything like that.... i would have to check for myself.... :wink:

[lively]

just one plain fact that i do not think has been answered yet!!!

do you have a receipt that shows your itemized build --and does it say on there that that antifreese was tested to a certain working condition 8)

if not --THEN JUST WALK AWAY AND LET A LESSON BE LEARNED AND YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY GONE-- :oop


LIKE fast75vega SAID-- I NEVER EVER TAKE SOMEONE ELSES WORD ON MY MONEY WHEN SOMETHING THAT SIMPLE CAN BE TESTED IN 5 MINUTES --BY MY OWN SELF :wink:

[bixblk]

The bill does not state the anti freeze to any certain working condition. That is one of the reasons i asked the builder,
I tell you guys this : it is A SAD PLACE WHEN you cannot believe someone
word, It says alot of what people are about. Stupid ass me thinking people are honest and truthful
Thanks for all the input
This thread showed me alot, some good some not so good.
I am done with this thread, but not with 496 issue

[482]

Just my .02!

Yep ya shoulda checked it!
But if you have sent the shop all the work you say, I would think he would help out somewhat. A little anyway I know I would feel beholding for all the business. It's called Public Relations :idea:

[bcw49]

Was your bill itemized? Were you charged for any antifreeze?

[gearhead1011]

I have had a automotive repair shop for close to 30 years. When I price a job that involves draining the coolant I always price a couple of gallons of anti freeze to go with it. When the job leaves my shop it has that anti freeze in it, no matter what the time of year or current temperature is or whether it will be stored inside a heated garage. That's just plain common sense. Regardless of what happened in this case just look at the headache it will cause for the guy that did the work. If nothing else he will get a lot of bad publicity over it and he may even get taken to court. The customer is out a lot of cash and is no longer dealing with someone that he had trusted up until now. There is no reason this car shouldn't have had anti freeze in it when it left the shop. That's just bad business.

[TheYellaBrick]

Well gang, it all boils down to words on a screen. Non of us were actually THERE and non of us actually SAW, just the poster, so non of us actually KNOWS. Just sayin' ya know.

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