new to drag racing-what class is my car close to racing in?

[JBCustoms]

OK,so i have been reading through the book (NHRA rule) but still wondering where my car is going to fit. maybe you could narrow it down for me as to what class this will fit.
I am running a 65 Chevelle 2dr sedan. Looking for a stock hood or fibreglass hood,going to build a dsah as the one in the car was trashed. Making it from sheetmetal with minium guages needed,355 SBC with th350 auto and a 10 or 12 bolt rear diff and ladder bars. heads are cast iron double humps with 2.02 intakes,solid lift roller cam with around 560 lift,12-1 forged pistons,aluminum GRP rods,Scat cast crank,victor intake with 750 dbl pump Holley. 29x10.50 15 in ET Drag tires,single seat,no carpeting,no door stock door panels but will have metal covering them,stock wheel wells other than interior wheel lips,no inner fender wells in front,roll cage. really nothing fancy. did i leave anything out? ANy idea as to what class i am close to fitting in so I can zero in as to what i need to do with this car? thanks in advance for your help,advice,ect. Jim

[TheYellaBrick]

Brackets. Learn consistency, driving, and engine/chassis tuning.

[andamo]

One thing you may want to re-consider with that engine build. You really don't need the added cost of aluminum rods in that motor. They're expensive to buy and really should be replaced after so many runs.

[curtisreed]

I have to agree with both, bracket racing and not a chance I would run aluminum rods in that motor. Victor Jr. not Victor intake. One more thing is rethinking removing the inner fender. Have seen others, Joe Sherman being one, that have proved leaving them in the car being faster.

Curtis

[mopar1968]

X3 on Bracket racing, Try footbrake/no box/pro/ What ever they call it where you live :!: :!: Sound's like it would fit right in with these classes :!: :!:


Mark

[bjuice]

I agree on the rods unless you decide to put NOS on the engine...that is why aluminum rods are used..so it can take the shock and save the bearings from the hit blower and NOS ENGINES deliver to the bottom end...But I have to say current day aluminum Rods do not stretch and break like the older ones did...I run the newer set of GRP'S

You will see a quicker throttle response with these rods because of rotation weight.
go ahead and get you a middle of the road NOS cam that will not be a total dog on motor and will repsond to a small shot....gaurantee you will want to go faster once you get started...so if it were my engine I would go with the right cam, stay with the aluminum rods, good forged piston. get your ring gap correct and put you a 150-200 shot on it with an adequate fuel system

again JMO...Never seen a guy that didn't want more after a little time in the seat..so save yourself hassle and time and put the right parts in it the 1st time

[bbchevy]

Sounds like a low 13 second Bracket Car to me?
Get Rid of the NO HOT RODS AVALIBLE BS and Hit some Local Tracks for the Learning Curve!
Later
G 8)

[JBCustoms]

Thanks for all of your input and suggestions. I had passed on a nitrous setup where he had everything but the bottle for $150. It had the spray going under carb where spray on one side and gas on the other. It included the regulators,ect needed to run the NOS. I am running the newer style GRP rods and the cam is a solid lifter roller cam. The specs are 285/285
242/242
567/567 lift
on a 110

not sure how that would work with NOS

[bjuice]

Thanks for all of your input and suggestions. I had passed on a nitrous setup where he had everything but the bottle for $150. It had the spray going under carb where spray on one side and gas on the other. It included the regulators,ect needed to run the NOS. I am running the newer style GRP rods and the cam is a solid lifter roller cam. The specs are 285/285
242/242
567/567 lift
on a 110

not sure how that would work with NOS


Its a HP camprofile you will need somthing ground for NOS...GREG is probably right low 13 second car as you described it
not gonna try and get into how to build a NOS engine on this thread but will say the differences in a NOS engine is the cam profile, ring gap set up, adequate fuel supply many run dedicated lines I just use a hog pump..magna fuel..the ability to take out proper degree of timing at NOS Activation. in your case a lower cost MSD chip set up will do it..will also need a NOS converter..
I guess the point I am making with you is that you are at a cross roads to to where $300 will make the difference in a 450hp engine making 400 ft lbs of TQ vs it making 650hp + and 700 ft lbs of TQ.

What many do not understand is that NOS Produces a freaky amount of TQ vs HP and its a flat TQ curve....thats why these NOS hits pull so well

Big difference between a 13 second pass vs a high 10 second. is enough to make a man decides if he likes racing or not

[bbchevy]

Brian,as I read thru His Posts.........?The LAST THING He NEEDS is N02!!!
Get the CAR Together,use the Parts You have!Then get some Laps in,and then with VERY Little $$ Invested.You can Decide what yo want to do ?

Personally,I have been doing this for almost 40yrs.Have I been down the N02 Road?YEP!Would I ever do it Again?NOPE!
Thats Stuff is NOT for someone that IS FRESH behind the EARS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Want to GO Fast,Put a ROOTS Blower on!But,thats another Day at the RACES..........................

Later
G 8)

[TheYellaBrick]

Brian,as I read thru His Posts.........?The LAST THING He NEEDS is N02!!!
Get the CAR Together,use the Parts You have!Then get some Laps in,and then with VERY Little $$ Invested.You can Decide what yo want to do ?

Personally,I have been doing this for almost 40yrs.Have I been down the N02 Road?YEP!Would I ever do it Again?NOPE!
Thats Stuff is NOT for someone that IS FRESH behind the EARS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Want to GO Fast,Put a ROOTS Blower on!But,thats another Day at the RACES..........................

Later
G 8)

BIG TIME DITTO !! It's a whooooooole different ballgame than on the street when you strap on a race car. LEARN, EARN, BURN !!!
The thing is, if ya start out with a VERY touchy, tune heavy, and powerful engined car without knowing what the heck to DO with it, you can become VERY disenchanted with the whole exciting experience when you don't get the results you are seeking right off. Racing and being competitive( and having FUN ) even on a part time deal, is VERY time consuming, money consuming, and a TON of WORK !! PLUS, you can get yourself or another racer hurt or killed . It HAS HAPPENED ! Too much car and too little experience.

[bjuice]

I wasn't saying he was ready for No2 but rather what would be the smart thing to do as far as money and time is concerned due to the fact he already has NOS parts in place.I MEAN the guy already has Aluminum rods how much would it cost him to tear down and replace those..Yes people are telling him to replace those rods..so what $600 for what he spent on those aluminum rods, $500 more for a set of steel rods and $500 for gaskets and time for someone to tear down and replace with steel rods ????...sooo ummm $1600 change out !!.....I don't think so.. ?...He can run the engine on all motor as long as he wants but when the time comes to step up he will have it all there..instead of having go back thru a tear down and re-purchase parts etc......Just because he has an engine prepared to Run NOS or a Blower doesn't mean he has to run it with the adder in place

For that Matter place a blower cam grind in the engine and bolt a small 144 on the engine when time comes.....I am good either way...my response wasn't trying to get him to run NO2 or Blown...but to get the best bang for his buck while building his engine based on the current parts he has so he could upgrade at a later date by spening NO more money Now or Later

for the record
NOS is very safe and reliable power adder if its set up and used properly..and very safe at the levels he would be using.

I myself have ran both Blown and NO2 engines.

[SuperComp1R]

yes, its a fact he will want to go faster. and it will save him time and money to do it the 1st time. he does need seat time and some common sense, 150 shot is very safe on just about any engine with no problems (just read and foliow the mfg directions) so it will be there when he wants it. i think i would be more concerned with the cast crank and the 10 bolt rear......just saying.

[curtisreed]

Brian, you are right about something I flat misunderstood. I thought he was planning on gathering the parts listed. If I already had the alum. rods I would run them. I gave my opinion on them based on having to purchase them or steel rods.

Curtis

[bjuice]

Brian, you are right about something I flat misunderstood. I thought he was planning on gathering the parts listed. If I already had the alum. rods I would run them. I gave my opinion on them based on having to purchase them or steel rods.

Curtis

its all Good Curt..I just want people to know I would never push or urge someone into anything over their head from the start. As my last post said I was just giving some thoughts of what he could do to the engine for a minimal amount of $$$ NOW that will yield awesome results later on when he is ready for more power and Yes he will want more sooner then later..Same with a TQ converter Purchase..if he don't put a tight NOS type converter in right now he will spend a lot of money and a lot of hassle putting in a converter that will tolerate Nos later on...Many do not know that a HP converter will not work with NOS.....

just giving info on COSTLY mistakes or oversites that has cost me BIG TIME in the past that could have been headed off early on if someone would have told me.


If the original poster is a beginner behind the wheel.. the great thing is that a true Built NOS or Blower engine with Converter and gear ( without using the NOS or Blower) would be a very tame engine for a beginner to learn on...now when you hook the bottle up and pull the trigger or bolt on the Blower its gonna go BUCK WILD. It's what its designed to do...it WILL NOT haul the mail both ways.

Here is an example of what I am talking about using REAL #'S my car runs with and without NOS...also my car it is a 100% true built 632ci NOS engine/converter/gear. It will run 5.60's on motor with a 1.36 60 ft 125mph WITHOUT NOS .....turn on one stage ( approx 200 shot) and it runs 4.95' ish with a 1.10-1.11 60 ft @ 142-143 mph.

that's making up 8 tenths in total ET....Knocking .25 off the 60 ft time and picking up 18 mph....and trust me the number difference above doesn't describe the feel in the seat.


thats all from a 200 shot.

[curtisreed]

HAHA JUST a 200 shot. That's from 700 to 900 in a heartbeat. :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

Curtis

[JBCustoms]

I should probably give a little background on my experience. When I was younger i always had fast cars of some sort. In high school,I ran a 70 Chevelle SS with LS6 (wish I had that car now ;) ). Anyway,I got into dirt racing. Sprint cars,running 406 with mechanical injection in the All Stars and 355 with inj in USAC. 1250lb car with 750hp gets exciting. I finally settled down with kids and work. I own an automotive repair facility and a motorcycle shop. I got away from racing for a long time. It was always,go to work during the day,get out of work and work on the race car,weekend comes,drive 10 hrs into Ohio or Indiana,run the races,go home and start all over again. We were spending $100K a year which was alot of money in those days.
Now I hear they are reopening a track near me. It was a pretty well known track back in the day tho I never drag raced before,I always would hear about Onondaga Dragway. So now they are going to reopen the track and i thought it would be fun to get an old car,get it together without spending a ton of money on it and have some fun with it. I thought the guys at the shop might enjoy having a race car around-something different than the same old repairs every day. We are pretty good with driveability and electrical problems that come with the late model cars and trucks nowadays.
I found the 65 Chevelle in Ohio and traded a 55 chevy truck for it. They were both projects and the truck was worth more than the car but the car was an old drag car from the 60's and 70's. it had been sitting outside for a long time and needs alot of work but it has a history and putting the car together is 1/2 the fun for me. It needs qtrs,floors,wheel wells,dash,basically everything. It has the original 10 bolt rear end in it with ladder bars. the rear has 8.2 gears in it but I do have a 12 bolt that i could fit into it but I thought if i got a spool for the 10 bolt,good axles and a rear support cover that the rear diff may hold up for awhile. I'd like to put 8.5 in tires on it so as to be able to fit the tire within the wheel well but maybe use a slick so it will hook up a little better. Onondaga is going to be a 1/8th mile track to begin with but they are working on maybe extending it back out to 1/4 mile within the next year or so.
The engine that i have is something I have been gathering parts for. I can not afford to make mistakes buying parts and need to get the most bang for my buck all the while planning for down the road. Like most of you have said,i know i will want more speed but still want to temper it so as to have fun and not get so serious about winning that the fun goes away like it did before.
The block I have had for 20 yrs. I just had it bored to 30 over. It is a high tin,high nickle block. I have a set of GRP 6in rods,12-1 domed Manly forged pistons,a very nice set of 68 2.02 heads that have good valves and springs with titanium keepers,ect. I also have Crower 1.6 roller rockers with 7/16 studs. Crane solid roller lifters,gear drive,7 qt oil pan with oil deflector. Edelbrock torker II intake and Holley 750 double pumper. I still need to get a crank. I'd like to get a forged crank but.....
The trans i have is just a TH350,it is built but i still need to get a torque convertor and it sounds like i need to change out my cam as well. I will call the guy who had the NOS setup and get that from him so that i can set it up at the same time as i do not like to waste money and time by doing something twice. I was thinking of going with a 4.56 or 4.88 gear with 26" high tires. any suggestions as to what convertor I should go with as well as what fuel system i should plan on? I get the idea that I will need to fatten up the fuel mixture when the NOS kicks in and the setup has NOS coming in on one side and extra gas on the other side besides what is already setup with the carb. Sorry for the long post but I appreciate the suggestions,ideas,cons and pros. thank you Jim

[JBCustoms]

When you talk of a NOS cam,is it something along these lines?
7.27-6.90 lift, 2.84-2.95 duration at 50, 112 lobe center I believe this cam would be too much for my heads. I would rather stay under 600 lift. I really would like to keep it iron headed if possible as aluminum heads were not used much in the 60's. Besides I have to spend enough money getting this car back together after decades of sitting outside turning into a pile of rust.

[TheYellaBrick]

Well you certainly are NOT a novice in shoeing high HP Iron !
However, Drag racing is all about getting outa the hole consistently and arriving at the top end in one piece and having FUN doing it !

[JBCustoms]

Finesse is the right term for drag racing. I believe I will enjoy the tuning,reaction times,getting the car to hook up,ect. I always enjoyed those aspects of running on dirt. Sprint car racing is using finesse with brute force. I have mellowed out quite a bit and don't particularly want to get crazy with that type of racing again. I KNOW i have alot to learn about drag. Even the lingo is something to learn. I went over to another forum that deals with bracket racing and it was hard to keep up with the conversation. ;) "bulbing,box or no box,footbraking it,ect. I have ALOT to learn but hey,isn't that what it is all about? If you are not learning something new every day the you are going backwards. As you get older,you start forgetting what you have learned if you are not progressing and building on the things you have learned.
Bjuice is right in that I should build this so that later on I can turn on a bottle when I am ready to do so. Anybody have any ideas on cams? I should probably move this to the engine section now. I want to thank you all for putting up with my ignorance when it comes to drag racing and also for the ideas,suggestions. Jim

[bjuice]

HAHA JUST a 200 shot. That's from 700 to 900 in a heartbeat. :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

Curtis

lol...ya I know !!! :D ...the TQ Curve is what gets you..Nos will pull your nads off from the time you in it until the time you let off. speacially in these Big chief 632's don't know what the final TQ number are but my baseline HP is close to 1300hp and 1050 lbs of TQ.... .so fair to say close to 1500hp on the 200 shot on the hp side
who knows the final TQ numbers..i would say in between a bunch and a-lot !!!... :D
seriously I say only 200hp shot.. I guess its all what your use to being around..these top running 10.5 guys is Running 300 hit off the line and another 350hp coming in 600ths out.

I went and watched Tony Christian Run 2 years ago at House of Hook he was on a quest to break the automatic pro-mod record...he had all 4 stages in by 600th's out.


One thing I have learned about NOS is that its a GREAT chassis tunning tool...we bring the hp up and down to adapt to track conditions it makes the car work really well .

[bjuice]

Finesse is the right term for drag racing. I believe I will enjoy the tuning,reaction times,getting the car to hook up,ect. I always enjoyed those aspects of running on dirt. Sprint car racing is using finesse with brute force. I have mellowed out quite a bit and don't particularly want to get crazy with that type of racing again. I KNOW i have alot to learn about drag. Even the lingo is something to learn. I went over to another forum that deals with bracket racing and it was hard to keep up with the conversation. ;) "bulbing,box or no box,footbraking it,ect. I have ALOT to learn but hey,isn't that what it is all about? If you are not learning something new every day the you are going backwards. As you get older,you start forgetting what you have learned if you are not progressing and building on the things you have learned.
Bjuice is right in that I should build this so that later on I can turn on a bottle when I am ready to do so. Anybody have any ideas on cams? I should probably move this to the engine section now. I want to thank you all for putting up with my ignorance when it comes to drag racing and also for the ideas,suggestions. Jim

it dont matter you can leave the post here...Glad you are seeking advise from us and welcome to the forum by the way...
Call comp cams they will have something to work with those Iron heads under 600 lift....

now as far as a crank you gonna spend ( u need to spend) a little cash for a Good one...My opinion you need to sink your cash into a good rotating assemby......

if you really want to step up to the plate and get a crank that will support 300 hp to 3,000 hp...I got your baby....a Sonny Bryant Billet crank with a Big block Snout...TOP OF THE LINE....cost over $4,000 new....your's for $1500.00 includes shipping...deal of the year !

for $2,700 I will throw in a brand new set of Billet Lint Rods ($1800.00 for the set) with bearings and a brand new set of SRP flat top pistons with rings .......over a $6,000 dollar rotation assembly that can handle as much as you and 2 of your best friends can throw at it........you will never need another rotation assemby !


http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/brianmcswain1/08220913261.jpg

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[JBCustoms]

excuse me,I need to wipe the drool off of my chin....... ;)





Ok,sorry for the wait,um,as much as I would love to have that assembly,it is way too serious for my plans. I buy that,then I would need to change out my heads as there is no way i would waste those parts on an engine with heads like these. Those heads deserve a set of Brodix ported out with Jesel,ect. 8)
I need to keep this less serious and more fun. I know myself well enough that if I went down that path,I would not stop until everything was changed as each piece would not be good enough to be used with the piece before it and so on and so forth.
Just a decent forged crank would be OK. I will take the assembly,get everything balanced and go from there. I am trying to rebuild this car like it was when it was raced back in the day. Putting NOS on it is a tip of the hat towards my appetite for torque and HP. If the car turns out fairly decent,it already has a spot at next years Detroit Autorama downstairs at the Singlefinger Speed Shop display. Besides,if I started building an engine with those kinds of parts,I would never get it took hook up using 8in tires. :)

[bjuice]

excuse me,I need to wipe the drool off of my chin....... ;)





Ok,sorry for the wait,um,as much as I would love to have that assembly,it is way too serious for my plans. I buy that,then I would need to change out my heads as there is no way i would waste those parts on an engine with heads like these. Those heads deserve a set of Brodix ported out with Jesel,ect. 8)
I need to keep this less serious and more fun. I know myself well enough that if I went down that path,I would not stop until everything was changed as each piece would not be good enough to be used with the piece before it and so on and so forth.
Just a decent forged crank would be OK. I will take the assembly,get everything balanced and go from there. I am trying to rebuild this car like it was when it was raced back in the day. Putting NOS on it is a tip of the hat towards my appetite for torque and HP. If the car turns out fairly decent,it already has a spot at next years Detroit Autorama downstairs at the Singlefinger Speed Shop display. Besides,if I started building an engine with those kinds of parts,I would never get it took hook up using 8in tires. :)

you make a very valid point !...these are the parts I am putting back to build either a procharger or Turbo engine in my 69 camaro

[JBCustoms]

How about a Racer Series forged crank from Lunati? It is not the high dollar like Bjouice has but it is not an Scat 9000 series cast crank neither. That crank should hold up pretty good from what I have heard-what do you think about those cranks?