Bad Deal with sr1105

[kgreene5572]

Jeff wanted to trade my car for his motor. He said he didn't have a trailer so he could not travel. I am in Afghanistan working so I made the deal and had my son drive all the way up above Atlanta pulling the car. I even asked Jeff to make sure he wanted the car due to cost of my son driving up and so on and he said it was a go. The car arrived at his house and he said it was all a lie and did not want the car. The car was exactly as what was in the pictures.

[BEAST477]

You still have your car don't you? If so I don't think you got ripped off. It sounds like a big waste of time and gas money. And yes I would be a little pissed too. But you can't force someone to trade.
Do you still have the ad# for his engine maybe we can get him on here to tell his side?

[TheRabbit]

and what did he say was wrong or different with the car? I'd like to hear his side too.

[kgreene5572]

he said the axles weren't mosers. He could be right but that is what I was told from the builder of the car. He also said there was no diagonal link which is in car. He just didn't look for it. Said axles weren't nhra approved. I was never asked this question or stated they were. I am pissed because I asked him to be sure and ask all questions and look at all pictures before I sent my son on a 10 hour drive and he said we are a go, no problem. I said the car is as exactly as what is in pictures. I guess I should calm down before I post complaints. I learned my lesson. I will just have to deal with the guy who sold me the car if it is not what he stated.

[bigray]

now I am not bashing you, but that old line of, thats what i was told... that just dont fly, when you own the car,, its not to hard to see what kind of axels you have, as for you being pissed , u damn right you should be,,, thats total B,S, sound's to me like the guy just wanted your son to bring it to him, so he could look it over, and then say never mind,,he should have at least paid for the gas,, just mt 2 cents worth, but i have been in your shoes, i kinda think we all have,

[kgreene5572]

I had the axles re checked and they are mosers. They just don't have the moser stickers on them. The guy said they weren't NHRA approved. I thought the only regulation on axles is that they are c clip eliminator type. Maybe someone can school me on that. But you are right, saying that is what the guy told me, really don't fly. My fault. The car was as I described. He just had second thoughts. I just wish he had them before and told me ahead of time before the 10 hour trip was made. From now on anything I sell will have to be seen prior to the deal being made.

[wlpatterson]

Although it was A trade he would have to put up some cash for me to travel 10hrs! If the deal worked I give him his money back,if not Im only out a trip..If he was serious about the deal he wouldnt have had a problem with it..To hook up & tow a car 10 hrs on some guys word youve never met?? Sounds like your a little too trusting & it cost you..Live & hopefully learn..JMO

[Harbone]

I would have worked out traveling expenses ahead of time. The guy obviously did not like what he saw and if you were going by what the previous owner said without confirming EVERYTHING on the car before selling it then the only person to blame is yourself. I have driven hundreds of miles to see cars that were nothing like they described. Lessons learned...

[Tod74]

I'd like to see the car.

[sr1105]

Hi Kirt
You need to be honest about what you have !!!!
The rearend is not complete and does not DIAGONAL LINK OR THE MOSER AXLES THAT YOU STATED YOU HAD !!!
BEFORE YOU CALL SOMEONE A SCAMMER YOU BETTER LOOK IN THE
MIRROR.
Check with some of the other people I had deals with and
see what they had exprienced.

[Tod74]

is the car still on rj?

[supergass]

Listen Mr. Srauss if you like we can go to the car tommorow evening if you like to put your race car knowledge on the line for lets say....... travel expenses and I will prove to you that you are wrong about the axles. I know for a fact that they were bought as a package with new bearings and studs. I WILL TAKE THE AXLE OUT WITH YOU THERE!! Now the question is do you want to put your money where your mouth is?? It would have been better that you decided to keep quiet . Just speak up the car is still in Woodstock Ga. A forged steel race axle doesnt need a sticker on it to see it is a race axle. Be careful not to posture yourself to quickly to the ones on here that dont know better what is going on........YET!

[supergass]

The rear has a brand new strange spool (33 spline) and a 1350 series forged yoke and 4:88 gears. The diagonal bar was in the car not on it . It had simulators in the place of the shocks for set up. There was no coil overs.

[Scooterz]

[quote="sr1105"]
The rearend is not complete and does not DIAGONAL LINK OR THE MOSER AXLES THAT YOU STATED YOU HAD !!!

That is a pretty specific statement. I mean, it either has the diagonal link or it doesn't. The axles are either Moser or they are not.... sounds to me like the seller says he is ready, willing & able to prove it. In the event that he does, I would say you are a scammer/flake after wasting the time & money he invested to keep his word. If that is the case, people should be warned about a man who does not keep his word on this thread/post.

On the other hand, if those items are not as described, then I suppose you have every right to bail out... seems to me something could have been negotiated somehow before a man wasted all the time & money to head back with no deal.

You cannot say he is a scammer that casually when he DROVE 10 HOURS TO MEET YOU... come on. I would say his intentions were not to drive & pay all that money in gas just to "try to pull the wool over your eyes" ... sorry, that does not line up... I call BS on that one.

[MEMRACING62]

he said the axles weren't mosers. He could be right but that is what I was told from the builder of the car. He also said there was no diagonal link which is in car. He just didn't look for it. Said axles weren't nhra approved. I was never asked this question or stated they were. I am pissed because I asked him to be sure and ask all questions and look at all pictures before I sent my son on a 10 hour drive and he said we are a go, no problem. I said the car is as exactly as what is in pictures. I guess I should calm down before I post complaints. I learned my lesson. I will just have to deal with the guy who sold me the car if it is not what he stated. stamped

[bjuice]

I agree with Cris travel expenses should have been worked out prior to the trip being made..a 10 Hour Ride is something to consider.
Now from the information I have read so far....don't matter what the axles were etc...if the man didn't like what he saw it was his right to say "No deal" at that piont with No ground rules laid down and agreed by both parties...

[MEMRACING62]

Jeff wanted to trade my car for his motor. He said he didn't have a trailer so he could not travel. I am in Afghanistan working so I made the deal and had my son drive all the way up above Atlanta pulling the car. I even asked Jeff to make sure he wanted the car due to cost of my son driving up and so on and he said it was a go. The car arrived at his house and he said it was all a lie and did not want the car. The car was exactly as what was in the pictures. stamped

[BEAST477]

Listen Mr. Srauss if you like we can go to the car tommorow evening if you like to put your race car knowledge on the line for lets say....... travel expenses and I will prove to you that you are wrong about the axles. I know for a fact that they were bought as a package with new bearings and studs. I WILL TAKE THE AXLE OUT WITH YOU THERE!! Now the question is do you want to put your money where your mouth is?? It would have been better that you decided to keep quiet . Just speak up the car is still in Woodstock Ga. A forged steel race axle doesnt need a sticker on it to see it is a race axle. Be careful not to posture yourself to quickly to the ones on here that dont know better what is going on........YET!

Supergass, how do you play into this picture? You seem to know alot about this car in question. Just curious. Did I miss something?

[MEMRACING62]

I had the axles re checked and they are mosers. They just don't have the moser stickers on them. The guy said they weren't NHRA approved. I thought the only regulation on axles is that they are c clip eliminator type. Maybe someone can school me on that. But you are right, saying that is what the guy told me, really don't fly. My fault. The car was as I described. He just had second thoughts. I just wish he had them before and told me ahead of time before the 10 hour trip was made. From now on anything I sell will have to be seen prior to the deal being made.stamped

[MEMRACING62]

Hi Kirt
You need to be honest about what you have !!!!
The rearend is not complete and does not DIAGONAL LINK OR THE MOSER AXLES THAT YOU STATED YOU HAD !!!
BEFORE YOU CALL SOMEONE A SCAMMER YOU BETTER LOOK IN THE
MIRROR.
Check with some of the other people I had deals with and
see what they had exprienced. stamped

[MEMRACING62]

Listen Mr. Srauss if you like we can go to the car tommorow evening if you like to put your race car knowledge on the line for lets say....... travel expenses and I will prove to you that you are wrong about the axles. I know for a fact that they were bought as a package with new bearings and studs. I WILL TAKE THE AXLE OUT WITH YOU THERE!! Now the question is do you want to put your money where your mouth is?? It would have been better that you decided to keep quiet . Just speak up the car is still in Woodstock Ga. A forged steel race axle doesnt need a sticker on it to see it is a race axle. Be careful not to posture yourself to quickly to the ones on here that dont know better what is going on........YET! stamped

[MEMRACING62]

The rear has a brand new strange spool (33 spline) and a 1350 series forged yoke and 4:88 gears. The diagonal bar was in the car not on it . It had simulators in the place of the shocks for set up. There was no coil overs. stamped.....just to keep the facts here from being edited

[Tod74]

GOOD IDEA MEM.

No way would I trade if I didn't like what I saw no matter how far they drove. It should have been worked out ahead but still...if I didn't want it I wouldn't trade. I do feel bad for the guy that towed that far for nothing. that sucks.

jmo

[kgreene5572]

Below is the email I sent to Jeff prior to the trip being made and his answer to that email. Supergass is knowledgeable of the car and spoke to the actual builder of the car. The car is as stated.


Hi Kirt
Everything is a go and I spoke to your son to give him my address.
I will see him on sunday
Thanks Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirt Greene <[email protected]>
To: mtstrauss <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 3:09 am
Subject: 73 Camaro

Sir,
My son is currently scheduled to come up on Sunday. I am not sure how
long it will take to get there so depending on the time he will be
there Sunday night or Monday morning. The car is exactly as you see in
the photos. The front fenders are just mounted but not lined up or
shimmed. The hood will be put inside the truck. It is going to cost me
a good bit of money to bring it up so I want to make sure that you want
the car. I do not want my son having to drive up there and you tell him
you don't want the car. Please let me know if you have reservations
about the car. I believe I have answered all questions but if you have
more please ask before this trip is made. If you decide you don't want
the car please let me know before the trip is made.

[kgreene5572]

All the pictures of the car are in my race profile. If anyone is interested in seeing it.
http://static.racingjunk.com/63/ui/8/89/18686898-562-1973-Pro-Street-Camaro.jpg

[kgreene5572]

Jeff told my son he would not trade a $10,000 motor for a $500 piece of sh*t car but his ad stated he was selling the motor for $5000. There seems to be some conflicting info that he has stated. I don't mind he didn't want the car. What bothers me is that he told me it was a go and all was good prior to me having the car sent up there. Especially when I asked him to be sure. I believe there is something he isn't telling us and that is why he used the excuse about the axles and diagonal bar on the ladder suspension.

[sr1105]

This was one of my first responses to YOU contacting me
Hi and thanks for the reply
I would be interested, I have no way to get it (sold all my Trailers and truck) . You would have to come to me if you wanted to do something. If you are still interested let me know and I will send you pics.
Thanks Jeff
dated 11/05/10
Sent via Racingjunk

[Harbone]

Jeff told my son he would not trade a $10,000 motor for a $500 piece of sh*t car but his ad stated he was selling the motor for $5000. There seems to be some conflicting info that he has stated. I don't mind he didn't want the car. What bothers me is that he told me it was a go and all was good prior to me having the car sent up there. Especially when I asked him to be sure. I believe there is something he isn't telling us and that is why he used the excuse about the axles and diagonal bar on the ladder suspension.

Dont twist it, he didnt like what he saw and said "no", plain and simple. I would never tell anyone its a done deal over the phone or via email. Until I see what I am buying in person, put my hands on it and confirm its what the seller says it is, thats the only way its a done deal. Like I said before, you should have came to a verbal agreement on delivery expenses before you even went to him. The buyer was in a "nothing to lose" scenario in this case and walked away...

[kgreene5572]

Well his origional complaints about the car are unfounded and not true so there has to be some reason he didn't want to trade. If he just bs me to think he really wanted the car just to get me to drive it to him then the guy is a douchebag. I have friends that live very close that were willing to prove to him that the car was as described but he has sidestepped those invitations.

[Harbone]

Well his origional complaints about the car are unfounded and not true so there has to be some reason he didn't want to trade. If he just bs me to think he really wanted the car just to get me to drive it to him then the guy is a douchebag. I have friends that live very close that were willing to prove to him that the car was as described but he has sidestepped those invitations.

He had the car in front of him, thats all the prove I think he needed...

[sr1105]

Hi Kirt
Do me a favor and show some pics of the cracks in the quarter panels
on both sides that you forgot to mention !!!!
The body does not show in your pics ,or the boiler plate you have supporting the the radiator mount !!
As far as for memracing, what do you have in this ?
This is all I have to say so stop crying to everyone.
If you were honest in the first place we would not have had problems !!!
Don't forget the guy that wants to give you $4000.00 for it
Did he fall off the face of the earth
Good luck to you and memracing

[Harbone]

Hi Kirt
Do me a favor and show some pics of the cracks in the quarter panels
on both sides that you forgot to mention !!!!
The body does not show in your pics ,or the boiler plate you have supporting the the radiator mount !!
As far as for memracing, what do you have in this ?
This is all I have to say so stop crying to everyone.
If you were honest in the first place we would not have had problems !!!
Don't forget the guy that wants to give you $4000.00 for it
Did he fall off the face of the earth
Good luck to you and memracing

just so you know, all memracing was doing was "stamping" what every one typed so the story wouldnt (edit) change after the original post.

I would say that someone brought you a car that was not fully disclosed, I would have to him to hit the bricks too :!: :D

[MEMRACING62]

The rear has a brand new strange spool (33 spline) and a 1350 series forged yoke and 4:88 gears. The diagonal bar was in the car not on it . It had simulators in the place of the shocks for set up. There was no coil overs. stamped.....just to keep the facts here from being edited I explained it here.... bring me a car with undisclosed issues and you will be going back empty handed too.

[Tod74]

It does not matter really if the car is or isn't what you said it was.He was not obligated to trade.If the car was as described and he wasn't serious then yeah he would be a crumb bumb for letting your son drive that far(not saying that was the case...just saying IF) but either way, he looked at it and didn't want it so it was his right to pass on it.I would never agree to a trade sight unseen. I don't care if I had 1000 pics I would want to see it first. jmo Sorry your son went through that.

[Scooterz]

It does not matter really if the car is or isn't what you said it was.He was not obligated to trade.If the car was as described and he wasn't serious then yeah he would be a crumb bumb for letting your son drive that far(not saying that was the case...just saying IF) but either way, he looked at it and didn't want it so it was his right to pass on it.I would never agree to a trade sight unseen. I don't care if I had 1000 pics I would want to see it first. jmo Sorry your son went through that.

Well said Tod... I have been thinking about this one & I would be upset to have invested all that time... but he was not obligated to trade in the end. I have to say that I think seller had no intetions of fooling anyone either... after all, he did have his son drive 10 hours. Tough deal for sure. I too am sorry that you spent that time w/ "no deal"...

[TheRabbit]

Just think how bad this thread would have been if they did make the trade! :shock:

[blownalky3]

I believe you are BOTH a little culpable here. He asked you straight up "if you had any reservations" at all before he had his son drive 10 hours to you. You said it's a go. That costs money and time. In my opinion you had nothing to lose by telling someone to drive that far so you could window shop and have the option of declining. He certainly can't undrive the trip or get his gas money back. Your complaint of not Moser axles and no diaganol bar seem to have been proven wrong, meaning YOU were wrong!!!!!! The right thing for you to do is split the cost with him and both move on. Lets see how fair you play!!!!!!!!!

Hi Kirt
Do me a favor and show some pics of the cracks in the quarter panels
on both sides that you forgot to mention !!!!
The body does not show in your pics ,or the boiler plate you have supporting the the radiator mount !!
As far as for memracing, what do you have in this ?
This is all I have to say so stop crying to everyone.
If you were honest in the first place we would not have had problems !!!
Don't forget the guy that wants to give you $4000.00 for it
Did he fall off the face of the earth
Good luck to you and memracing

[kgreene5572]

I'm not sure what cracks you are referring to but if you are talking about the gaps between the door and front fender, I believe I told you the fenders were just set on car and not lined up or shimmed. Yes there is quarter inch angle iron welded to frame. This was done to have somewhere to mount the core support because the guy that built the car cut the frame off to put a fiberglass tilt front end. I don't think I would call it boiler plate. Either way I am done with this. I was a dumbass for driving it up there. I learned my lesson not to trust people on racing junk and make sure money is put up before I take car anywhere.
I don't know who memracing is. I think he is just stamping to keep us honest.

[TheRabbit]

I believe you are BOTH a little culpable here. He asked you straight up "if you had any reservations" at all before he had his son drive 10 hours to you. You said it's a go. That costs money and time. In my opinion you had nothing to lose by telling someone to drive that far so you could window shop and have the option of declining. He certainly can't undrive the trip or get his gas money back. Your complaint of not Moser axles and no diaganol bar seem to have been proven wrong, meaning YOU were wrong!!!!!! The right thing for you to do is split the cost with him and both move on. Lets see how fair you play!!!!!!!!!

Hi Kirt
Do me a favor and show some pics of the cracks in the quarter panels
on both sides that you forgot to mention !!!!
The body does not show in your pics ,or the boiler plate you have supporting the the radiator mount !!
As far as for memracing, what do you have in this ?
This is all I have to say so stop crying to everyone.
If you were honest in the first place we would not have had problems !!!
Don't forget the guy that wants to give you $4000.00 for it
Did he fall off the face of the earth
Good luck to you and memracing

I think it was crappy to make the seller drive all the way. The buyer had nothing to loose nor was he giving any help to make the deal happen.
Even if I didn't have a trailer I would have met him halfway to look at the car and if I liked it would have paid him to take it to my house. That would have been decided before we agreed to the trade.

[Scooterz]

[quote="blownalky3"]I believe you are BOTH a little culpable here. He asked you straight up "if you had any reservations" at all before he had his son drive 10 hours to you. You said it's a go. That costs money and time. In my opinion you had nothing to lose by telling someone to drive that far so you could window shop and have the option of declining.

I like what blownalky said... there seems to be zero accountability to the buyer.

It would have been different if he would have said: "You may get here 10 hours later & I may back out of this..." "I want you to know BEFORE you send your son, I am not 100% comminted until I see the car.

Instead he was given all the chances to be clear on his stance prior to the trade, did not have to face the actual buyer (his son), & convinced him to spend 10 hours of time & gas money, only to say NO DEAL for dubious reasons.

[supergass]

Hi Harbone, I know the car and the people that started it before it was sold to Kirt Greene. I know who originally started the roll cage work, it is complete. I would be willing to go to this car and take pictures of the car in any area that any of you guys want. I NOW understand who it is that is making all of this a mess and it aint Kirt. I know who this is now(only knowing him by first name) and he is a back biting trouble maker and I wish he would take his sorry behind back to NY. In my opinion he is bringing up new issues to cover his rear. The axles are there MOSER and they are the new style that dont have the M/E on the end. They put stickers on them now BUT if you look you can see part number081806. I havent looked that number up yet but I think I know what the answers gonna BE!!! I also went there and CONFIRMED that the diagonal is laying beside the drivers seat. It has two brand new race seats with the adjustable sliders on both sides and a nice racing steering column. The ladder bars are new as well!! The hood is a new glass hood and I think the front fenders are too(not sure on that) That crack in the quarter he is refrencing now is a crack in the primer.......not the steel. Like I said it would have been better that he would have said I didnt like the car BUT NOOO he had to be a ass and say the car wasnt worth 500.00. That is the man you are dealing with guys. If any of you have any request for pics or anything just say the word, I really dont have any use for a liar. This IS after all is said a PROJECT car, now tell me HOW that could have been misrepresented in the pictures?

[supergass]

Well his origional complaints about the car are unfounded and not true so there has to be some reason he didn't want to trade. If he just bs me to think he really wanted the car just to get me to drive it to him then the guy is a douchebag. I have friends that live very close that were willing to prove to him that the car was as described but he has sidestepped those invitations.

He had the car in front of him, thats all the prove I think he needed...

But he said that there were expensive parts missing to posture himself as the victim. I could have dealt with not wanting to trade much easier even if he didnt pay any expenses rather than carry out this game. Boiler plate......what a freakn joke.

[Graflex]

All the pictures of the car are in my race profile. If anyone is interested in seeing it.
http://static.racingjunk.com/63/ui/8/89/18686898-562-1973-Pro-Street-Camaro.jpg

Wow... the car looks even better than it did when it left our shop.

My boss sold the Camaro to the guy that Kirt bought it from.

I built the rear-end and ordered all the parts.

12-Bolt Chevy Chevelle housing.

New $295.00 Moser axles, 3" stud kit, wheel bearings installed, Moser housing ends, 33 spline spool, new bearing kit, new 1350 yoke, new Zoom 4.88 gears, new ladderbar brackets for the housing and new coil over brackets for the housing.

It also has new 32" Art Morrison ladder bars and new track locater that I didn't bolt on because the solid coilover simulators kept the body from moving side to side. The track locater brackets are installed, though and the track locater is still right where I put it when the car was picked up from our shop... right beside the drivers seat next to the rocker panel.

I still have the Moser axle stickers in my tool box at the shop because I forgot to put them on.

Moser used to cast "M/E" on the axle ends (my race car has Moser axles from the early 1990's with M/E casted) but they now put stickers on the end like Mark Williams axles have and so on.

It also had stock Chevelle drum brakes that went with the car, but not installed.

The wheels and tires shown in the pictures were the ones I put on the car.

It also has tubular front upper control arms from Speedway Motors with new upper ball joints and a new manual S-10 steering box.

It was set up for a BB Chevy and TH400 trans.

Has a 5 gallon fuel cell and rear mount batteries.

The "cracks" mentioned on the rear I think I can explain... when the rear wheel wells were extended and the "NEW" rear tail light panel was installed, the grey primer that was used was bad!!! When it dried, it started cracking.

The same can of primer was also accidently used on a hood we were working on for someone else.... when it dried it started cracking. I have since thrown away that can of primer so it won't get used again!!!

I'm not a body man, so I can't explain what was up with the primer... I just know what happened.

The car left our shop with NO front clip sheet metal....... looks nice with the front clip on it in metal!!!

The fenders, nose and hood were bought NEW by the guy that bought the car from my boss.

Not sure who installed them on the car? Kirt possibly, while he had it???

Remember... any used race car parts or engine parts are only worth .50 cents on the dollar.

I have no idea how much $ the intended buyer/trader had in his motor.

I felt like I needed to reply in this topic to help clear some issues up.

I'm not taking sides on this issue because the intended buyer of the Camaro knows me.

I would like to say, however, that I don't think the car was misrepresented and at least the gas money should be paid back to Kirt.

You would have spent gas money to drive down to look at the car... which is actually what you needed to have done.

It seems like Kirt made it clear in the e-mail he posted in this topic that if there's ANY reservations on doing the deal for the buyer to speak up before the trip was made.

Sight-un-seen deals are tough to do!!!

A couple of years ago, I did a trade for my current race car that was for sale here on racing junk.

I went over to look at the car, then the seller came over to look at the car I wanted to trade him. We came to an agreement, and THEN the cars were traded and delivered.

Good trades can be made on racing junk if they're done right.

- Jim

[fastskin500]

thanks for making that clear. i was made out to be a liar and a sneaky guy when i was at this fellas house. which was NOT appreciated after having a pretty bad and long 12 hour trip. trader was not welcoming and was very rude. go back to NY where you belong. obviously you are still learning the southern lifestyle. guess your not catching on too quickly. here in the south we have respect, hospitality, and manners. we dont assume that some one is a liar, we ask questions. i told the trader this was not my car and i did not know much aabout it.

as for the gas money ordeal, it would have been much appreciated seeing how you were so rude, demanding, and quite verbal. but then again, you yankees dont know what its like to have a heart and respect.

[blownalky3]

Please do not classify all people not from the South in one group you consider to not have heart and respect. Makes you as stupid as he is.

thanks for making that clear. i was made out to be a liar and a sneaky guy when i was at this fellas house. which was NOT appreciated after having a pretty bad and long 12 hour trip. trader was not welcoming and was very rude. go back to NY where you belong. obviously you are still learning the southern lifestyle. guess your not catching on too quickly. here in the south we have respect, hospitality, and manners. we dont assume that some one is a liar, we ask questions. i told the trader this was not my car and i did not know much aabout it.

as for the gas money ordeal, it would have been much appreciated seeing how you were so rude, demanding, and quite verbal. but then again, you yankees dont know what its like to have a heart and respect.

[MEMRACING62]

Question for everybody involved in this......what is the goal of this thread at this time ? :?

[kgreene5572]

I don't expect anything from Jeff. I just want other potential buyers/traders to be aware of how he can be and to conduct their deal accordingly. It would be nice if he apologized for calling my son a liar and treating him as he did but I know that is unlikely to happen.