Cam flat brand new 50 miles ???

[bixblk]

Got another one of these cam going flat with less than 50 miles on them. My buddies solid flat tappet Lunati cam, BBC 427, cam lube used very generoisly, careful breakin' , proper spring tension.High quality oil.
This has come up a few time recently.As it has in the past, We get alot of different answers about why, some say steel quality,some say improper break in, some say it is the lack of the oil to lubricate, some say spring pressures. Maybe some times this is true ....but in this case I think all waas done properly.
Wha are you guys feelings on this
Interested. Also do you think Lunati will be open to talking to him ?
Jeff

[cncmotorsports]

What was your valve spring seat pressure, and what is your open pressure.
Also what oil did you use ?

You can talk to Jeff over at lunati, Just ask for him.

[bixblk]

His buddy did the motor ,and I do not know the valve spring pressures. The guy that built the BBC is extemely solid,
I am pretty sure he did use castrol 20/50 oil
Thanks I passed the info along to him about the contact person to talk at Lunati

[markdunlap]

I have only had 1 cam do that and it was an error on my part.

Comp Cams replaced the cam and lifters before i discovered the real problem. Luckily I did see it before wasteing another cam.

When I installed the rear cam bearing "freeze" plug, I accidently mushroomed it in slightly. This pushed the cam just far enough forward that the lifters were centered on the cam and did not spin as they should while running. Looking down the lifter bore in the block the cam should NOT be centered with the bore.

[TS1955]

Not sure if Castrol contains Zinc but it's an absolute must on a flat tappet cam. Not only during break-in, but continually every oil change. Something to look in to. JMO

TS1955

[cepx111]

I think anybody that has ever built a motor has wasted a flat tappet cam, it happens but in your buddies defense it seems to be happening more now than ever.
Alot say it has everything to do with the removal of the zinc and other antiwear agents they cut back in oils over the years due to EPA restrictions, maybe thats the culprit, some say the cam blanks aren't what they used to be, cores softer, cheaply made lifters etc, I dunno, it might be a combination of the two.

I do know, when I build a flat tappet cam motor or any motor for that matter, I pay attention to the lifter bores, they need to be smooth as a baby's ass IMO, sometimes when you get the block back from machining it will start to rust up with a quickness, the lifter bore is no exception.
I immediately clean and lube them, then check to make sure the lifter spins freely in each bore and with zero bind.
I will check every bore and every lifter to make certain of this, if any are sticky, I'll use very fine wet sand paper (600-1000grit) in the bores, then clean and re-lube generously with motor oil.

My 2 cents>Cp

[bixblk]

Thanks guys, very good comments.
I think it is happening more than before. I am giulty of not paying attention to the lifter bore holes as I assume they are good. But I do spin the lifter as a habit.
Any way i am going to talk to my buddy and see what the motor builder thinks. Again thanks.....To Be Honest This has been a bad year with breakage for me and running buddies.Hope next year will be better.

[Tod74]

This is why I pretty much stopped fooling with flat tappets. I put one in my dad's car this summer.I bought a case of comp cams break in oil. what he runs in it. :) He rarely drives it so he just uses that since it is loaded with zinc. I still don't know if that's a good idea or not. Anyway, I have never had one go flat and I used to run them...and I never broke them in properly either.I Just started it up, set the timing and idle etc and forgot about it. zero problems.

Now after reading online the last few years about the problems that people smarter than me have, I'm afraid to mess with them...I just run solid roller in my race car and a hyd roller in my chevelle.

[bixblk]

I am very interested in see what my buddies motor guy says.
"zero problems" ,,,,boy have heard that before. Just messing with ya"
Jeff

[Tod74]

I am very interested in see what my buddies motor guy says.
"zero problems" ,,,,boy have heard that before. Just messing with ya"
Jeff

Took me a second, but I got it. :)

[Scooterz]

I does seem like we hear of cam wiping more these days... every article I read always promotes the Zinc too. I run it; as an additive, just to make sure. I don't know- even one of my neighbors had one in a mild SBC crate motor do that.

[oldandtired]

I know we have been over this break in topic a couple of times.
1. Use zinc additive
2. Install outer springs only
3. Use reduced ratio rocker arms
4. Run 2000 to 2500 rpm, back and forth for first 30 minutes. These cams lube by the splash and changing rpm's moves the pattern around.

[ajk]

I know we have been over this break in topic a couple of times.
1. Use zinc additive
2. Install outer springs only
3. Use reduced ratio rocker arms
4. Run 2000 to 2500 rpm, back and forth for first 30 minutes. These cams lube by the splash and changing rpm's moves the pattern around.
X2 i do all of the above and as it cools after break in i bump the motor over several times (every 5min or so) just to be sure there are no hot spots.May be a little overboard but never had a bad ending yet.

[bixblk]

Old and tired
Those are great ideas. I will be honest I have not heard those ideas,but they make sense. The zinc I have done but the outer springs and rocker ratio is a cool/great idea
Thanks
jeff

[Tod74]

I have never broken one in properly with the fast idle or any of that. I keep it at a fast idle just until it gets warm enough to idle with no choke then I set the timing and adjust the carb. must have just been lucky or the oil really was better then. Haven't ran a flat tappet in mine since mid 1990's though.

[zipper06]

Not many people running the flat tappets anymore, but some of the circle people are restricted too them, but the oil is the major reason, they all add zinc on every oil change and break them in with lower ratio rocker arms, atleast the one's that i know do.

Zip.

[oldandtired]

I know we have been over this break in topic a couple of times.
1. Use zinc additive
2. Install outer springs only
3. Use reduced ratio rocker arms
4. Run 2000 to 2500 rpm, back and forth for first 30 minutes. These cams lube by the splash and changing rpm's moves the pattern around.

I forgot a very important item.
Always use the direct lube lifter. It has a .021 to .024 hole thru the bottom, forcing oil right on the face of the cam.

[bixblk]

Thanks for the feedback.
Here is the info we got valve spring pressure open was 350, closed was 124, spring height 1.90 3 oz of zinc additive also comp zinc oil additve and zinc on the cam about 70 dollars worth of zinc additve. My buddy will call Lunati (jeff) and see what can be done.
The thing about this is he has used Lunati stuff on the his SBC and the 427 BBC. I hope this turns out Ok

[markdunlap]

Best additive I have found is just called ZDDP. It comes in a 6 oz size and cost less than $10.

[jaxsmith]

I yall dont like the oil we have today just wait. The newest spec for all the majors is GF-5 and it will be rolling out very soon. the trend is lower viscosity and less anti wear. All new engines made today are roller everything and to be honest with you they dont care about the guy with the 40 year old technology flat tappet or hydraulic flat tappet cam. Bite the bullet now and go to a hydraulic roller or your problems will never go away.

If you take into account rebuilds and expensive oil additives a hydraulic roller is not that expensive. I have yet to have seen a lost cam lobe that didnt put metal all through the system and not eat up parts.

The guys that are in trouble are the guys with class restrictions that have spec cams.

All oils are changing and unless you find some that has been sitting for 10 years your in trouble. If you do find some it has an expired shelf life and the good stuff has most likely fallen out of the blend.

[bixblk]

Amen, I think my buddy is going to see if Lunati will help out with a hydralic roller cam and lifters. We are just working guys and raising families trying to have some fun, and then you run across problems like this .The motor is coming apart again to clean it up. Let hope it works out

[bixblk]

Lunati/Jegs stepped up and warrantied the cam and lifters. He did upgrade a bit (his cost) he did call Lunati, he spoke to Jeff asked some questions and they did give him some info. They want him to use their cam lube/additive and the break in with the one set of springs (outter springs)He got them to pay for shipping , it is a good gesture from the companies, for an unfortunate problem

[DRTRCR22]

Read the first link carefully then choose any of these three excellent oils below from any circle track race parts distributor.
However, you can now get Valvoline Racing Synthetic 20-50 at nearly any auto parts store for about $4.50 qt. It has as much Zink additives as the more expensive ones. I use it in my 600 hp alcohol dirt circle track modified at 8,000 rpm... and this $15K engine runs cooler than any other I've had before.

http://www.abcauto.com/MessageCenterDetail.aspx?ContentID=162

http://www.bradpennracing.com/

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/

http://www.championbrands.com/SpecSheet/EOXP.pdf

[gearhead1011]

The only flat-tappet cam I had fail was on a 460 Ford street motor. The guy that did the heads made sure we were good on spring pressure and coil bind but didn't check the clearance from the bottom of the retainer to the top of the guide. It mashed the valve seals out of it and wiped a lobe on the cam after a couple of hundred miles. Not a common problem but just one more thing to check.

[TheRabbit]

Read the first link carefully then choose any of these three excellent oils below from any circle track race parts distributor.
However, you can now get Valvoline Racing Synthetic 20-50 at nearly any auto parts store for about $4.50 qt. It has as much Zink additives as the more expensive ones. I use it in my 600 hp alcohol dirt circle track modified at 8,000 rpm... and this $15K engine runs cooler than any other I've had before.

http://www.abcauto.com/MessageCenterDetail.aspx?ContentID=162

http://www.bradpennracing.com/

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/

http://www.championbrands.com/SpecSheet/EOXP.pdf

I keep saying I'm gonn achange to Brad Penn oil but I gotta drive 70miles one way to get it. what about Royal Purple synthetic oil, anybody use it?

[spib]

Read the first link carefully then choose any of these three excellent oils below from any circle track race parts distributor.
However, you can now get Valvoline Racing Synthetic 20-50 at nearly any auto parts store for about $4.50 qt. It has as much Zink additives as the more expensive ones. I use it in my 600 hp alcohol dirt circle track modified at 8,000 rpm... and this $15K engine runs cooler than any other I've had before.

http://www.abcauto.com/MessageCenterDetail.aspx?ContentID=162

http://www.bradpennracing.com/

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/

http://www.championbrands.com/SpecSheet/EOXP.pdf

I keep saying I'm gonn achange to Brad Penn oil but I gotta drive 70miles one way to get it. what about Royal Purple synthetic oil, anybody use it?

just order it instead of driving

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-BPO20W-50QT/
http://www.competitionproducts.com/Brad-Penn-PENN-GRADE-1-Racing-Oil-20W-50-Quart/productinfo/BPO20W-50QT/

[gearhead1011]

I keep saying I'm gonn achange to Brad Penn oil but I gotta drive 70miles one way to get it. what about Royal Purple synthetic oil, anybody use it?

I do and I think it's great. Use it in my race car and tow vehicle, 2000 Powerstroke. I change the oil in the race car at the beginning of the race season and just inspect/clean the system one filter between races. The Powerstroke gets an oil change every 20,000 miles.

[TheRabbit]

Read the first link carefully then choose any of these three excellent oils below from any circle track race parts distributor.
However, you can now get Valvoline Racing Synthetic 20-50 at nearly any auto parts store for about $4.50 qt. It has as much Zink additives as the more expensive ones. I use it in my 600 hp alcohol dirt circle track modified at 8,000 rpm... and this $15K engine runs cooler than any other I've had before.

http://www.abcauto.com/MessageCenterDetail.aspx?ContentID=162

http://www.bradpennracing.com/

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/

http://www.championbrands.com/SpecSheet/EOXP.pdf

I keep saying I'm gonn achange to Brad Penn oil but I gotta drive 70miles one way to get it. what about Royal Purple synthetic oil, anybody use it?

just order it instead of driving

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-BPO20W-50QT/
http://www.competitionproducts.com/Brad-Penn-PENN-GRADE-1-Racing-Oil-20W-50-Quart/productinfo/BPO20W-50QT/

I feel like a retard (again) as much time as I spend on Summit's web site I never knew they sold Brad Penn oil. When I looked at the Brad P. web site it doesn't list them as a dealer. BTW No way am I running 20/50 oil though. It's 10/30 for me. Thanks

[DRTRCR22]

I feel like a retard (again) as much time as I spend on Summit's web site I never knew they sold Brad Penn oil. When I looked at the Brad P. web site it doesn't list them as a dealer. BTW No way am I running 20/50 oil though. It's 10/30 for me. Thanks[/quote]

That's ok on the 10-30... still good stuff. I run the 20-50 because I am putting 20 hard and hot laps up and down between 3500 and 8000 rpm each race lap... and on alcohol, so I need an extra wide margin. Also the Brad Penn is great for alcohol motors because it does not 'foam up" from alcohol dilution like some of the other brnads do. I use different brands on different engines for different reasons... but they all are excellent choices.... and yes, Royal Purple is excellent too.

[kwkracing]

I just mix 1/4 rotella in all my engines with convential oil and a good dose of marvel mystery oil.