1994 Grand Am running hot

[bowtie4542001]

Need some help on this one. I replaced a head gasket on a 94 Grand Am with a 2.3 Quad 4 in it. I replaced the water pump and thermostat. It now gets hot (240 degrees in climbs) 15 or 20 minutes after start up. Don't know if it was getting hot before I replaced the hed gasket because I did not drive it. I feel of the hose entering the radiator and no flow. I replace the thermostat with another new one and same thing. I am at wits ends with this thing. Does anyone have any suggestions. I will be going back down to Albany this weekend to work on it again. Thanks in advance for any help... :? :?

Chris

[DirkaDirka]

I would say try it without the thermostat in. It could be the thermostat you got is bad.

[bowtie4542001]

I would say try it without the thermostat in. It could be the thermostat you got is bad.

Thanks Dirka, I believe I might do that. I just don't see the likely chance of getting 2 bad thermostats though. I even took it back apart to ensure I put it in the right way and its child proof (only fits one way). While I have it back apart, I am going to make sure the waterpump is actually turning. I have been working on this car for about 6 months but I can't complain too much, it only cost me $350 and it looks pretty good.

Chris

[DRTRCR22]

Is it possible the bottom rad hose is soft and collapsing shut? See if it has wire retainer inside of it.

Also, after changing the pump and thermostat, did you "burp" the system, get all the air out of it...?
This is a common problem in circle track modifieds when radiator cap is lower than the thermostat housing... air trapped in the system blocking flow.

Jim

[signsbyesa]

hey chris, i have a 2000 grand am and problems never stop. looking
at your post and trying to come up with something, now just checking.
did you boil the thermostat and make sure it opened? if that is fine,
did you run the car w/o the stat to see if the pump was working, i
replaced a pump from autozone 3 times and ended up with one
from NAPA, learned my lesson. and if not, there must be something
blocking in the hose, i'd like to go help just to get the answer,
good luck bud, and post your findings :wink:

[MEMRACING62]

its air locked, this engine is a bi**h to bleed. did you use a cooling system filler to fill the system? or (your not going to want to here this) did you check the head for warpage? if you didn't there is a very good chance that it is, its air locking on exaust getting into the system because head gasket did not seal. presure check it.

[bowtie4542001]

Is it possible the bottom rad hose is soft and collapsing shut? See if it has wire retainer inside of it.

Also, after changing the pump and thermostat, did you "burp" the system, get all the air out of it...?
This is a common problem in circle track modifieds when radiator cap is lower than the thermostat housing... air trapped in the system blocking flow.

Jim

You might be onto something Jim. The hose is pretty soft, and the radiator is filled through the overflow tank on the side. I will buy some new radiator hoses. I filled the overflow tank up and let it run for a while and kept it filled up. Not sure how to get all the air out of these (with the overflow).
Chris

[bowtie4542001]

hey chris, i have a 2000 grand am and problems never stop. looking
at your post and trying to come up with something, now just checking.
did you boil the thermostat and make sure it opened? if that is fine,
did you run the car w/o the stat to see if the pump was working, i
replaced a pump from autozone 3 times and ended up with one
from NAPA, learned my lesson. and if not, there must be something
blocking in the hose, i'd like to go help just to get the answer,
good luck bud, and post your findings :wink:

I did not boil the thermostat, will try to run without the thermostat this weekend. I will post what I find this weekend. Thanks
Chris

[bowtie4542001]

its air locked, this engine is a bi**h to bleed. did you use a cooling system filler to fill the system? or (your not going to want to here this) did you check the head for warpage? if you didn't there is a very good chance that it is, its air locking on exaust getting into the system because head gasket did not seal. presure check it.

I did not use the cooling system filler. I had the head checked when I had replaced the gasket. I will pressure check it though. I know the inlet radiator hose is not flowing any coolant/water through there, its really soft.
Chris

[dragonmaster093]

to burp may wanna try the squeeze and release method with tank full squeese top hose and should send air to tank can get messy though

[bowtie4542001]

to burp may wanna try the squeeze and release method with tank full squeese top hose and should send air to tank can get messy though

Hey Sam,
Both hoses are on the bottom of the radiator. I will try squeezing both hoses though. At this point, I am willing to try anything.

[dragonmaster093]

its a bitch on those 4 bangers

[dragonmaster093]

but be fore warned that if privious owner ran it hot those motors notorious for blowing head gaskets and warping/cracking head

[MEMRACING62]

x2 !!

[slowmotion]

I don't know if this will help at all but some one sent it to me for a race car. It probably won't apply to your situation but it's all I have.

The radiator cap must be 19 to 22 PSI, and must be a non-vented type cap.

The coolant fill point must be positioned at the highest level in the system and has to be limited to one radiator cap only. This is either on top the existing radiator or with an adapter on the manifold but not both.

The overflow tank, as we presently call it, must be converted to a true recovery or expansion tank. This is an absolute must, and is accomplished by adding or extending a 1/4 inch inside diameter tube from the top of the can to 1 inch from the bottom of the inside surface of the can, and cut at a 45° angle.

Bleed your system of all air. To accomplish this, we have found it best to use the following steps.

Fill the system to capacity, then run the pump, on and off, on and off, etc. Listen for the pump to change pitch as it catches the water.
With the radiator cap secured, run your engine until the temperature gets to 160° and then shut it off.
Let your engine cool down so as not to interrupt the suction recovery process that would occur by removing the radiator cap. After an ample cool down time, repeat the steps above until you are sure all of the air is removed from the cooling system.
If you want to cut down on the time required to do the above procedure, simply purchase or borrow a radiator pressure tester. Mount it to the radiator cap fill point and pump it up to 20 pounds and leave it overnight. The system should not leak down and it will force almost all of the air out of your system.
Your catch can should now contain approximately three inches of coolant This means that the tube you added will be submersed in two or more inches of liquid. Do not, I repeat Do not drain this out. If an air pocket should develop within your engine, this excess liquid will be drawn back in and the air out. If there is no liquid, then air will be sucked right back into the engine and you have gained nothing but more heat. If these procedures are followed, do not remove your cap again. Coolant maintenance is over, not just for this race but for the entire season.

[cepx111]

Ditto on the trapped air..... If I remember correctly, them quad 4's had a purge valve somewhere, fixing to google it. I'll get back with ya.

Cp

[cepx111]

Okay, more info on getting out trapped in a quad 4....

Method#1
You should remove the heater hose from the water neck. This will be a high point in the system. Fill your tank until fluid comes out from the hose. Reinstall and complete filling.

Start the car and run with the radiator cap removed. Top off as needed. Before the engine heats up too much, replace the cap. Check for leaks. After system has cooled, check your fluid level.
Method#2
My procedure involves "burping" the upper radiator hose by starting nearest the engine and "walking" a depression (and leading this depression by the raised section which may have air trapped in it) along the hose until I get to the radiator. This helps to force any air bubble towards the radiator where it can escape and then be replaced by coolant. Do this SEVERAL times -- with the radiator cap off -- until you no longer hear burps of air.

I have had good luck with this method.

Just a thought here...


If you have access to an temp gun, check the temperature of the heater core hose coming out of the firewall to the pipe on the back of the block. If it doesn't get hot enough to open the thermostat (above 180) your heater core is at least partially plugged. The way this cooling system is set up, the thermostat receives coolant flow only through the heater core until the thermostat opens. If there is not enough flow there, the thermostat may only open erratically when the rpms cause enough fluid pressure to overcome the blockage. This is a big cause of blown headgaskets on the 2.3's that have the thermostat on the back of the engine (and the 2.4) I've dealt with this problem a few times.

If you don't have access to a temp gun, you can disconnect the heater core and bypass it to make sure there is enough coolant flow. If this fixes the problem, change the heater core. (It's not a bad job.) Just make sure you use a hose with a bend in it, or two hoses and an elbow so it doesn't kink. You want to run the hose from the water outlet on the end of the head to the metal pipe on the back of the block.

In closing....

After reading all the horror stories associated with this troublesome little engine... I dont know WHY ANYBODY would have one, that is unless your stuck with it.
My sister bought a brand new grand am a few years back, 58,000 W/P goes out, mind you the pump was over $300, plus $300 in labor to put it in, and yeah it was out of warranty.
From day one she had nothing but trouble out of that car.
She practically gave it away a year two later, after replacing the W/P, again.

JMO and a few others> Cp

[bowtie4542001]

Okay, more info on getting out trapped in a quad 4....

Method#1
You should remove the heater hose from the water neck. This will be a high point in the system. Fill your tank until fluid comes out from the hose. Reinstall and complete filling.

Start the car and run with the radiator cap removed. Top off as needed. Before the engine heats up too much, replace the cap. Check for leaks. After system has cooled, check your fluid level.
Method#2
My procedure involves "burping" the upper radiator hose by starting nearest the engine and "walking" a depression (and leading this depression by the raised section which may have air trapped in it) along the hose until I get to the radiator. This helps to force any air bubble towards the radiator where it can escape and then be replaced by coolant. Do this SEVERAL times -- with the radiator cap off -- until you no longer hear burps of air.

I have had good luck with this method.

Just a thought here...


If you have access to an temp gun, check the temperature of the heater core hose coming out of the firewall to the pipe on the back of the block. If it doesn't get hot enough to open the thermostat (above 180) your heater core is at least partially plugged. The way this cooling system is set up, the thermostat receives coolant flow only through the heater core until the thermostat opens. If there is not enough flow there, the thermostat may only open erratically when the rpms cause enough fluid pressure to overcome the blockage. This is a big cause of blown headgaskets on the 2.3's that have the thermostat on the back of the engine (and the 2.4) I've dealt with this problem a few times.

If you don't have access to a temp gun, you can disconnect the heater core and bypass it to make sure there is enough coolant flow. If this fixes the problem, change the heater core. (It's not a bad job.) Just make sure you use a hose with a bend in it, or two hoses and an elbow so it doesn't kink. You want to run the hose from the water outlet on the end of the head to the metal pipe on the back of the block.

In closing....

After reading all the horror stories associated with this troublesome little engine... I dont know WHY ANYBODY would have one, that is unless your stuck with it.
My sister bought a brand new grand am a few years back, 58,000 W/P goes out, mind you the pump was over $300, plus $300 in labor to put it in, and yeah it was out of warranty.
From day one she had nothing but trouble out of that car.
She practically gave it away a year two later, after replacing the W/P, again.

JMO and a few others> Cp

A lot of good information guys. Thanks a lot and I feel a lot better knowing I have a starting point for this weekend. I will let you know how it goes.

Chris

[Harbone]

you can kind of cheat the system by jacking the front of the car up as high as possible and then start filling the system, this gets the radiator cap at the highest point in the cooling system and forces the air to the cap opening...

[bowtie4542001]

Hey guys, I just wanting to thanks and every one that had input the over heating problem. I went and tested the thermostat that I had bought from Advance, it was partially opening. I also checked the heater core (completely blocked) bypassed the heater and put in a thermostat from Napa and she is running nice and smooth now, Again, thanks to everyone and I hope everyone has a safe and Happy Holidays.

Chris