CAM WALK

[JEFF69Z28]

HAS ANYONE USED A CLOYES 2 PIECE QUICK BUTTON TIMING COVER.BY THEIR ADD YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ADJUST CAM END PLAY WITHOUT REMOVING THE COVER,GOOD OR BAD IDEA?
AND YES MY CAM IS WALKING,IT IS SET AT 38* AT IDLE BUT WHEN I REV THE MOTOR IT RETARDS ABOUT 2-3*

[curtisreed]

We are using them on each of our SBCs. Very nice product. They are built very strong and the machining on both of them was very good.

Curtis

[wmeabates]

I have used one on a sbc for 2 years with no problems.When I first put it on the inside of the cover was hitting the front main cap before the cover sealed on the gasket.I removed some metal from the cover to get clearance.Bill Bates.

[shawnp]

Just curious, what ignition box are you using?

[stickboy331]

we have a timing lite mounted on a stand,that runs during dyno pulls.i have found it is comon to gain or lose timing at the top end of the pulls. not realy sure why? last hei with advance lock out would retard 2 to 3 in the last 500rpm of the pull. slack in the timing chain, distributor shaft end play, gear wear, cam walk. all might contribute some, and lets not forget the control module. i like solid cam thrust buttons. roller bearing types have seized up, and the needle bearings have gotten through moroso oil pick tubes :cry: had good luck with cloyes covers, some times they dont get along with stock type water pumps. hope this helps stickboy331

[JEFF69Z28]

Just curious, what ignition box are you using?
MSD 6AL

[hammertime]

HAS ANYONE USED A CLOYES 2 PIECE QUICK BUTTON TIMING COVER.BY THEIR ADD YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ADJUST CAM END PLAY WITHOUT REMOVING THE COVER,GOOD OR BAD IDEA?
AND YES MY CAM IS WALKING,IT IS SET AT 38* AT IDLE BUT WHEN I REV THE MOTOR IT RETARDS ABOUT 2-3*

put a crank trigger on it and that problem will be gone ... but I can tell you mine does the samething without trigger, I hook up trigger and its steady and runs identical

[JEFF69Z28]

HAS ANYONE USED A CLOYES 2 PIECE QUICK BUTTON TIMING COVER.BY THEIR ADD YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ADJUST CAM END PLAY WITHOUT REMOVING THE COVER,GOOD OR BAD IDEA?
AND YES MY CAM IS WALKING,IT IS SET AT 38* AT IDLE BUT WHEN I REV THE MOTOR IT RETARDS ABOUT 2-3*

put a crank trigger on it and that problem will be gone ... but I can tell you mine does the samething without trigger, I hook up trigger and its steady and runs identical
Just curious how would a crank trigger stop cam walk?or are you saying my cam isnt walking?

[zipper06]

It's hard for me to think that cam walk can cause 2 to 3 degrees of change in the timing. What David was talking about (crank trigger) takes away all the movment of the cam and gives you the true timing. The cam twist and flexes due to driving the oil pump, it's takes 25 HP and more to drive an oil pump at high RPMS, especially if you're running heavy weight oil and pushing 60 to 100 LBS of oil pressure and that's where most of your timing change is comming from. That's why a crank trigger gets it right. Think about it the cam is about .800 dia. slightly more than 3/4" dia and 2 ft. long. That's why most of the big dogs run dry sumps and crank triggers and all NASCAR teams do.

I'm not saying your cam is not moving, but i am saying that a button will not correct the timing problem completely.

JMO

Zip.

[JEFF69Z28]

It's hard for me to think that cam walk can cause 2 to 3 degrees of change in the timing. What David was talking about (crank trigger) takes away all the movment of the cam and gives you the true timing. The cam twist and flexes due to driving the oil pump, it's takes 25 HP and more to drive an oil pump at high RPMS, especially if you're running heavy weight oil and pushing 60 to 100 LBS of oil pressure and that's where most of your timing change is comming from. That's why a crank trigger gets it right. Think about it the cam is about .800 dia. slightly more than 3/4" dia and 2 ft. long. That's why most of the big dogs run dry sumps and crank triggers and all NASCAR teams do.

I'm not saying your cam is not moving, but i am saying that a button will not correct the timing problem completely.
Thanks for the info Zip i just talked to MSD and he said to install a crank trigger and the problem should go away if it doesnt than more than likely the cam is walking.How much timing change would you exspect if my cam was walking.

JMO

Zip.

[zipper06]

If the cam was/is moving as much as .060/.080 i don't think the change would be more than 1 degree. But if you have the cover off put a button on the cam even useing a stock steel or alum cover, i would do it. I use the nylon button that Comp Cams sells (P/N CC205) and furnishes with their cam conversion kits, cost under $5.00. You may have to remove some mat'l from the front of the button to fit it, but it's the quick/cheap way to stop cam walk.
As mentioned above NO NEEDLE BEARING buttons, they do come apart.

JMO

Zip.

[JEFF69Z28]

it has cam cam button according to my builders invoice,that was one reason i did not think it was walking and decided to ask the cam walk question.if it was walking the timing would move more than 2-3* maybe 5-10*?.whats involved in stopping cam walk.

[zipper06]

The engine manufacturers put a stop to the cam walk problem when they went too hydraulic roller cams. They incorperated a bolt on plate to the front of the block and pinched the cam with the timing gear. That stopped forward and rearward movement of the cam, but they also went to a crank trigger ign.
The main problem with cam walk other than timing fluation is it with put escessive wear on the distributor gear, even more so with a bronze gear. That's another thing you need to look at for your timing problem, the gear could have some wear.
Go to Google and type in camshaft walk, there's several good reads about cam walk about the reasons and the way different engine builders have addressed the problem.

Zip.

[shawnp]

Jeff,

Is there any other indications you got cam walk besides the timing? What I can tell you is that David and I both experienced issues with the MSD 7al3. David may have had to throw the trigger on to solve his problem but I went back to the 7al2 and solved ours. Do me a favor, before you go tearing the motor apart, swap the ignition box and see what happens.

[JEFF69Z28]

Good idea,I have a 6al2 that i thought was a problem last year but ended up being a carb problem.Ill put that on and see if the problem is corrected.

[wmeabates]

The outer edge of a 1.25 dist. gear moves .011 each degree of rotation.So .010 in. of cam movement would equal about 2 degrees timing change at the crank.Bill Bates.

[JEFF69Z28]

IS THIS SOMETHING I SHOULD WORRY ABOUT AS I WOULD HATE TO DESTROY A 400.00 CAM AND 900.00 WORTH OF LIFTERS AND ROCKER ARMS.WHAT OTHER SIGNS SHOULD I LOOK FOR IF MY CAM WAS WALKING?

[wmeabates]

Your timing moving 2-3 deg.with a dist triggered ign.could be caused by anything between the crank gear and the pickup in the dist.I have put roller cams in sbc for more than 40 yrs using a cam button.I never seen cam walk damage any parts.Bill Bates.