Choosing a BIG Cube BBC Street Engine

[nofear57]

So I'm looking to buy a pump gas BIG Cube BBC for the street,how do I decide what to buy? Is there any advantage in a bigger bore or bigger stroke engine? Comparing bores and strokes is there a more efficient engine or easier one on parts compared to another? There are so many to choose from in the aftermarket world.

Hope this is right:
Size Bore Stroke Rod
540 4.50 4.25 6.385
555 4.56 4.25 6.385
565 4.60 4.25 6.385
572
582 4.60 4.375 6.535
598 4.60 4.50 6.535

[hammertime]

I have old school thinking, if it doesnt need to be bored why do it.

One of my favorite combos is a 4.25 stroke with a 4.530 bore making a 548, or you could gi 4.375x.453 and make a 564 out of it. The stroke does help. I've seen both these combos work well. I also think using a longer rod instead of a shorter rod may help a little.

[signsbyesa]

hammer, having a longer or shoter rod, does that determine the
placement of the wrist pin on the piston? or does the hieght of the
piston change? shorter piston longer rod, longer piston, shorter rod?
i have always been amazed on the 396 w/11 to 1 comp. using pump
gas due to a longer stroke, not sure on the rod or piston size,
but that combo worked well with power to boot :wink:

[hammertime]

hammer, having a longer or shoter rod, does that determine the
placement of the wrist pin on the piston? or does the hieght of the
piston change? shorter piston longer rod, longer piston, shorter rod?
i have always been amazed on the 396 w/11 to 1 comp. using pump
gas due to a longer stroke, not sure on the rod or piston size,
but that combo worked well with power to boot :wink:

Wrist pin height change on the piston.

[TheRabbit]

I have old school thinking, if it doesnt need to be bored why do it.

One of my favorite combos is a 4.25 stroke with a 4.530 bore making a 548, or you could gi 4.375x.453 and make a 564 out of it. The stroke does help. I've seen both these combos work well. I also think using a longer rod instead of a shorter rod may help a little.

X2. A 548 is a simple and cheap big cube build. I had one and loved it. And it gives you plenty of rebuild room for years to come.

[oldandtired]

Providing your car is not a heavyweight, 540 to 580 inches in a street car will have the torque to get you up to the speed limit. I agree with Hammer and Rabbit, keep bore standard for cooling and future rebuild.
Hone and go. Why spend $$ to bore .030 to gain 7 or 8 inches? You cannot tell the difference on the street.
JMO Dave

[fla1976]

I would leave the bore stock as long as possible . I'm a firm believer in boring only when necessary. When selecting a rod, I'd go with the longer rod to allow longer dwell at TDC of the ignition stroke. JMO.

[nofear57]

If you order a Dart Big M block what is the bore size you get? Is it a 4.50 right off the bat,is that where they start?

[bjuice]

4.500

something to think about if you go with longer stroke and have TQ monster HEALTHY 565-582 ci street motor..there is a chance your not gonna Enoy it too much cause its gonna blow the Tires off everytime you roll into the gas....i guess you can always put a 200 something gear in it that may help some of that.


i personally lean toward a little more Bore on a TRUE street engine..

just another way to look at things

[Tod74]

I have old school thinking, if it doesnt need to be bored why do it.

.

I AGREE

[altailites]

So I'm looking to buy a pump gas BIG Cube BBC for the street,how do I decide what to buy? Is there any advantage in a bigger bore or bigger stroke engine? Comparing bores and strokes is there a more efficient engine or easier one on parts compared to another? There are so many to choose from in the aftermarket world.

Hope this is right:
Size Bore Stroke Rod
540 4.50 4.25 6.385
555 4.56 4.25 6.385
565 4.60 4.25 6.385
572
582 4.60 4.375 6.535
598 4.60 4.50 6.535 What heads are you going to run? I ran most of them combos and I liked the 598 best. also put the longest rod you can in it you would be surprised how close the oil rigs get to the bottom of the cylinder .

[nofear57]

Ya I think maybe a thicker cyl. wall might help with cooling morso than a thinner wall. If I add a 125 shot of nitrous a thicker wall would be smarter maybe too.

Which heads to use, Dart AFR Canfield Edelbrock? Alum. or case iron? Alum. would keep cooler but could you put more miles on a iron head and would iron be less maintenance as in valve guides and seats?

Also dual plain intake or open plenum,4150 or dominator? Eagle rotating,callies etc?

[altailites]

Ya I think maybe a thicker cyl. wall might help with cooling morso than a thinner wall. If I add a 125 shot of nitrous a thicker wall would be smarter maybe too.

Which heads to use, Dart AFR Canfield Edelbrock? Alum. or case iron? Alum. would keep cooler but could you put more miles on a iron head and would iron be less maintenance as in valve guides and seats?

Also dual plain intake or open plenum,4150 or dominator? Eagle rotating,callies etc? I would run the brodix bb-4 heads or the dart 355s on the big ci motors. alum heads are fine for street use I never seen much difference in maintenance between the two. I never ran a duel plain intake on my big motors just the single plain with a dominator . callies or Briant will hold up to more power if you have the extra cash.hope this helps

[TheRabbit]

Ya I think maybe a thicker cyl. wall might help with cooling morso than a thinner wall. If I add a 125 shot of nitrous a thicker wall would be smarter maybe too.

Which heads to use, Dart AFR Canfield Edelbrock? Alum. or case iron? Alum. would keep cooler but could you put more miles on a iron head and would iron be less maintenance as in valve guides and seats?

Also dual plain intake or open plenum,4150 or dominator? Eagle rotating,callies etc?

IMO I would go dart heads, single plane profiler intake, 4500 and an Ohio crank. Lots cheaper than Callies and good to 1500hp. You should have bought my old 548. One thing I will tell you is do not use a GM 502 block!!

[nofear57]

Thats right I'm not even interested in a GM block. Yes they have their place but in my situation a Dart will be used. I think a Callies is the answer,all US made parts is my goal.
So far
Dart block
Callies rotating with H-beam rods
Pistons: JE or Ross? What else is US made?
Dart heads I guess determined on the cubic inch?

[altailites]

Thats right I'm not even interested in a GM block. Yes they have their place but in my situation a Dart will be used. I think a Callies is the answer,all US made parts is my goal.
So far
Dart block
Callies rotating with H-beam rods
Pistons: JE or Ross? What else is US made?
Dart heads I guess determined on the cubic inch? I like diamond pistons . CP or Ross would be my other choices. and TheRabbit is right the new gm blocks suck

[altailites]

598BBC in my street vette . dart block,brodix bb5 heads,lunati crank, grp rods, diamond pistons . but you dont have to go this crazy lol http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/prost63vette/BENJYSSHIT025.jpg

[Tod74]

what are the issues with the GM 502 block? I'm sure they are fine for a certain amount of cubes/power...what are there limits?

[DirkaDirka]

598BBC in my street vette . dart block,brodix bb5 heads,lunati crank, grp rods, diamond pistons . but you dont have to go this crazy lol http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/prost63vette/BENJYSSHIT025.jpg

Ok what are those lines goin ginto the intake?? I have never seen anything like that.

[bjuice]

the Good stuff Dirka ( nos)..two stage Fogger..with a real nice pro-systems Carb....(Good Stuff).....should pump out betweet 200. to 500 hp

[nofear57]

altailites is this something like you have,is your 598 a short deck? Dynoflo makes a 598 short deck Ad #1597657

[DirkaDirka]

the Good stuff Dirka ( nos)..two stage Fogger..with a real nice pro-systems Carb....(Good Stuff).....should pump out betweet 200. to 500 hp

Thats all it is?? i thought it was something else. My bad. :oops: I does look cool tho. I likey. :P

[TheYellaBrick]

It's called SQUEEEEEEEZE, Dennis ! Like in the WWll fighter aircraft ! :D :D :D

[altailites]

altailites is this something like you have,is your 598 a short deck? Dynoflo makes a 598 short deck Ad #1597657 No sir that motor is a tall deck with 6.800 long rods in it. my only short deck motor was a 540 and dart 360 heads.

[altailites]

what are the issues with the GM 502 block? I'm sure they are fine for a certain amount of cubes/power...what are there limits? Tod I never ran the new gm 502 block but my buddy told me the decks are way to thin if you want to spray over 400 hp lol.

[TheRabbit]

what are the issues with the GM 502 block? I'm sure they are fine for a certain amount of cubes/power...what are there limits?
Todd my last motor was a a 548 in a 502 block. It made 858hp and was a good motor, but the blocks are to thin. Hard to keep cool and not a very sturdy bottom end. They're not a bad low budget build motor, but you cant sell them for much. I was told by several engine builders no more than 950hp on those blocks. I had over 20k in my motor and could only get $6,500 when I sold it.(It was only 1 year old with less than 100 passes. If I could do it again I would rebuild the same motor with a Dart block and could have sold it for a lot more.

[bjuice]

No Fear just remember if your gonna build a practical street motor.Those Huge Heads and radical camshafts are useless as tits on a Bore hog for practical street use.,,,and then trying to ad NOS on top of this for practical purposes is good for nothing but conversation pieces.

the advise i been reading your getting is AWESOME for Race engines...or Racing in a STREET CLASS....but not hardly for something you would load your family in and try to make a 100 mile Journey to the Zoo and back.

Just giving u my opinion from the past.......

start with a good GM (UN-BORed) 10:1 compression block shoot for the 454 to 468 ci...use a set of Bowl blended ( only) bb2 brodix or Afr's 2.25-1.88 valves...700 -720 LIFT range hydraulic roller....port match your intake ( only)..

with right carb this will get you in the 650hp ( maybe little more) hp range...More then enough for the street.....if ya wanna to be a little different...take the extra grand you would have spent on the dart block and buy you a 177 bm low profile blower.....drop compression ratio, change to blower cam, use a cometic head gasket

again just my opinion......orrrrrrrr Build you one of these 1,000 hp engines with all these HAWG parts and call it a street motor and drive it to the end of the street and back twice per year.....lol :D :D

[nofear57]

bjuice your probably right on the 454/468 deal but human nature always cry's for more,right. That's what hot roding is all about. There aren't to many tires around that can put the power to the ground on a street car. That's what makes it fun knowing you have extra juice and to make the wife scream in your ear :lol: Heck they're going to anyway so might as well have fun.
I'm kinda shooting for a weekend worrier as well at the track. Thats where the nitrous and a pare of slicks will come into play. I understand a big cam won't live on the street to well so ya a hyd .700 lift is where it'll be but the bigger cubes will be there. I want it all under a stock hood so as to not attract to much attention.

[nofear57]

I guess when I first started this thread I was concerned about harmonics and ware and tare in a big cube(crank throw,rod length,length of piston). I'm not up on this kind stuff and was wondering how it would live on the street. A 598 short deck just came out not to long ago and wow that sounded like the answer but once a guy started thinking about it would it survive on the street or would it eat itself alive?

[hammertime]

Thats right I'm not even interested in a GM block. Yes they have their place but in my situation a Dart will be used. I think a Callies is the answer,all US made parts is my goal.
So far
Dart block
Callies rotating with H-beam rods
Pistons: JE or Ross? What else is US made?
Dart heads I guess determined on the cubic inch?


Which callies crank and rods you going to buy ?

Id go with a 454R and not a sniper on the street though, Dart heads alum 355's

Wiseco pistons top my list though, they have been very good pistons for years.

[hammertime]

I guess when I first started this thread I was concerned about harmonics and ware and tare in a big cube(crank throw,rod length,length of piston). I'm not up on this kind stuff and was wondering how it would live on the street. A 598 short deck just came out not to long ago and wow that sounded like the answer but once a guy started thinking about it would it survive on the street or would it eat itself alive?

My motor shop dislikes the 598 short deck motor he just doesnt think they will last.

[nofear57]

Ya I don't know anyone that has a 598 short deck,never heard any feedback yet,they're new. I don't want to spend 10 or 12 grand and find out she'll fly apart. I guess I should phone the shops that build them and see what they have to say. I know Dynoflo and Shafiroff builds them anyone else?

[DirkaDirka]

Ya I don't know anyone that has a 598 short deck,never heard any feedback yet,they're new. I don't want to spend 10 or 12 grand and find out she'll fly apart. I guess I should phone the shops that build them and see what they have to say. I know Dynoflo and Shafiroff builds them anyone else?

Here is a thread about Dynoflo engines. It also contains another thread about them also. Just read the threads and make up your own mind on them.

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=3423&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[TheRabbit]

Here is a thread about Dynoflo engines. It also contains another thread about them also. Just read the threads and make up your own mind on them.

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=3423&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

:shock: here we go again.. :lol: :lol:

For a street motor I would stay with a 548. Mostly because it is a very cheap ( and good) big cube buildup. And It makes a ton of HP and torque.

[nofear57]

So explain the set up on the 548?

[hammertime]

Ya I don't know anyone that has a 598 short deck,never heard any feedback yet,they're new. I don't want to spend 10 or 12 grand and find out she'll fly apart. I guess I should phone the shops that build them and see what they have to say. I know Dynoflo and Shafiroff builds them anyone else?

I am sure Sunset has done one or 2 before, maybe Nesbitt

dont waste your quarters calling the jokers above ;)

[hammertime]

So explain the set up on the 548?

4.25 Stroke 4.530 Bore with 6.385 Rod .. very popular motor in drag racing, they seem to make very good power and it'll be one bad ass street car with that motor in there.


My thoughts on crank and rods ... I run 1000hp on motor and will spray upto 300 with the spray, Eagle has worked good, I now have K1 Rods just to try them, and have good luck so far. I had a 548 once .. it made 850hp (950 on some dynos) with 10:1 compression until it broke a oliver no bearing wear just flat broke the rod in half but the callies magnum crank went with it along with the rest of the motor. Back to eagle for me ... no matter what you use, its only as good as the machine shop doing it for ya ;)

[Tod74]

I have a 540 in mine 4.5 bore 4.25 stroke with a 6.385 rod. Brodix 2x heads I love it. But I don't have much to compare it to as befre this I had 2 406's and one .030 over 454

I will neeeever go back to small blocks. ever.

[bjuice]

I have a 540 in mine 4.5 bore 4.25 stroke with a 6.385 rod. Brodix 2x heads I love it. But I don't have much to compare it to as befre this I had 2 406's and one .030 over 454

I will neeeever go back to small blocks. ever.

My old 511ci and your 540ci Tod ran very similiar..almost same engines. yours had a little more Bore..non the less..they are stout running motor's...not something i would try a long day on the road with the family.

My Best ET with that 511ci was a 5.82et full street trim @3200 lbs..NO NOS all motor.

Tod you put a 300 shot on that 540ci and watch her holler.... :shock:


below is my 1st 5.99 pass in street trim....yeeee...ha.....the next clip is thanking My Northern pitcrew Tom Mc dunnah,,,lol

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/brianmcswain/th_100_0263.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/brianmcswain/?action=view&current=100_0263.flv)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/brianmcswain/th_100_0262.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb117/brianmcswain/?action=view&current=100_0262.flv)

[Tod74]

Give ME a 300 shot and You can watch me holler while I pick up pieces of piston off the track...

I know you used to drive that camaro on the road...can't imagine you do too much of that if any with the nova...do you ever miss having a "hot rod" to cruise to the local Sonic or whatever?

[nofear57]

Great looking Nova! I always liked that style of wheel. Sooo....that 540 is it a pump gas? You put many miles on it?

[bjuice]

Give ME a 300 shot and You can watch me holler while I pick up pieces of piston off the track...

awwww come now Tod...do it right and it will be ok... :D

[Tod74]

Great looking Nova! I always liked that style of wheel. Sooo....that 540 is it a pump gas? You put many miles on it?


No runs race gas. Just a bracket car no street time. I could drive it on the street if I had regular tires on it..never have though because it's a ladder bar car with a spool. I know some do it but I'm not gonna.

[bjuice]

Give ME a 300 shot and You can watch me holler while I pick up pieces of piston off the track...

I know you used to drive that camaro on the road...can't imagine you do too much of that if any with the nova...do you ever miss having a "hot rod" to cruise to the local Sonic or whatever?

i sure do Tod. thats why i got the 69 camaro and new rotating assembly, its gonna be a street warior as well.

[bbchevy]

So explain the set up on the 548?
No Fear,
I had a 540" Motor 3300lb Chevy II,it had Dart 345 Pro-1's.
My little 514 with Brodix BB-2 Extras,would KICK the S#!T out of that 540!
So,I guess what I'm saying is?Stay away from the Dart Heads!
Personally,for the Street?Depending on your Application?
I would either go with a 4.0 Stroke x 4.4500 Bore,or
a 572"er,4.5x4.5 I'm doing 1 of these 572's rite Now,on E-85.But,it will be Supercharged!
If your going Pump,you Might think about E-85,cause you can Run ALOT More Compression!Up to 14.5:1.Just a Thought.................?
Later
G 8)

[altailites]

I Found you the perfect motor gm 572 crate motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0INNYanWyY

[nofear57]

Sounds cool but to much compression. Gotta keep it around 10 or 10.5:1

[nofear57]

bbchevy I would love try E85 and try to achieve the 14:5.1 comp but E85 is not available anywhere around where I live.

I did some checking on some dealers about pump gas engines including phoning Dart to see what they said about building a short deck9.8 598ci. Dart said it is achievable with 4.60 bore,4.50 stroke,6.535 rod,zero deck 1.015 this would be a 1.45 Ratio where 1.5 Ratio would be perfect.

I phoned 2 dealers that I know build these engines and they both recommend no nitrous at all. These are just naturally aspirated engines that build over 700hp and gobs of tq. and can be driven across country,so they said.
As tempting as it is I'm still not sure if I should buy one. There are so many to choose from 540,555,565 and maybe the 582 in short decks that I can add a good shot of nitrous when I need to.

[bbchevy]

You'll be LUCKY to Get Pump Gas,On MARS!!!
Later
G 8)

[hammertime]

bbchevy I would love try E85 and try to achieve the 14:5.1 comp but E85 is not available anywhere around where I live.

I did some checking on some dealers about pump gas engines including phoning Dart to see what they said about building a short deck9.8 598ci. Dart said it is achievable with 4.60 bore,4.50 stroke,6.535 rod,zero deck 1.015 this would be a 1.45 Ratio where 1.5 Ratio would be perfect.

I phoned 2 dealers that I know build these engines and they both recommend no nitrous at all. These are just naturally aspirated engines that build over 700hp and gobs of tq. and can be driven across country,so they said.
As tempting as it is I'm still not sure if I should buy one. There are so many to choose from 540,555,565 and maybe the 582 in short decks that I can add a good shot of nitrous when I need to.

700hp out of a 598 pump gas ??

http://www.nyesautomotive.net/540__700hp.html
or better yet
http://www.nyesautomotive.net/632_870hp.html

[russ67chevelle]

the largest arm id put in a standard deck bbc is 4.375....anyone who knows engines would most likely agree,especially for racing purposes...

when i had a motor built i had a few goals.to run 8s in quarter,93 octane fuel.that was mostly only rules.so after looking at rod to stroke ratio i settled for 4.5 stroke with 6.7 rod which nets a 1.25 piston deck height which ive heard from people that run nitrous in engines that u dont wanna go below 1.2 piston pin height on the spray...so with having a rod stroke ratio same as a 400 sbc coming in at 1.49...

ive limited my nitrous to 275 shot with current combo and i think with je pistons eagle rods and crank hellfire rings it should be fairly trouble free at 10.2:1 compression

if i could do it again id look at the dart 11.1 deck height!!!but those were not out when i built my motor 3 years ago.hell the block is only a couple hundred more and if u add up extra crank expense(ohio crank billet is about 400 more than my 4.5 eagle) of going with big big cubes like 650+ for pennies more i wished i can do it again!!!!!

in my chevelle 3000 lbs race weight so far for now best et is 8.65@154 on a 175 shot still rich so im guessing 8.50s on 175 when dialed in then load the 275 for bottom 8s so i cant complain but more cubes rock!!! :D

[sommersracing]

I got one for you http://www.sommersracing.net/Product-604-CID-Street-Monster_140.aspx Matt

[bjuice]

I got one for you http://www.sommersracing.net/Product-604-CID-Street-Monster_140.aspx Matt

hey brother how ya been ?

[sommersracing]

Not to bad... Been pretty busy. Loving Florida :D How about you? What car do you have now?

hey brother how ya been ?[/quote]

[bjuice]

Not to bad... Been pretty busy. Loving Florida :D How about you? What car do you have now?

hey brother how ya been ?[/quote]

sorry for long delay been out of town the last few days....glad to hear you Like Florida.

I own a 67 Nova Now...the one in My Avatar...Holler at ya later Bud....

Brian