TIMING MOVING

[JEFF69Z28]

I LOCKED OUT MY DIST.AND SET IT AT 34 DGREES,WHEN I REV THE MOTOR THE TIMING STARTS TO RETARD IS THIS NORMAL?

[desoto30]

mine did not. Locked dizzy & crank trigger, with rock solid timing

[TopspeedLowet]

If it is only retarding two deg or less with RPM change, it is likely your cam end play moving forward and rearward changing the gear mesh and backlash of your helical cut dist gear altering your timing setting. Less end play settings give less timing change at your dist. A crank trigger pick up eliminates this issue that most all distributor triggered igns that are rotated by the cam have due to necessary cam end play. The retard can be virtually near zero to 1/2 degree with minimum recommend cam end play settings.and proper gear backlash set ups.
Bruce

[OneBadGMC]

You shouldn't be setting the timing at idle anyhow.

Always rev the motor and watch the timing during RPM climbing.

The valve train has to be loaded to properly set the timing.

It can't be done right at idle, or at a constant RPM because there will always be slack in the chain.

As was said prior, make sure the cam isn't walking either.

[JEFF69Z28]

You shouldn't be setting the timing at idle anyhow.

Always rev the motor and watch the timing during RPM climbing.

The valve train has to be loaded to properly set the timing.

It can't be done right at idle, or at a constant RPM because there will always be slack in the chain.

As was said prior, make sure the cam isn't walking either.HOW SHOULD I SET IT

[mopar1962]

If ya got vacuum advance remove the hose from the distributor pot and plug it,get an adjustable knob type timing lite,have someone sit in the car and watch the tach, lets say ya want 35 degrees total as an example, set the light at 35 and give the car some rpm until the balancer mark stops moving, I like fully advanced in a race only car around idle or by 1200 rpm,on a street racer say 2000 rpm, with the engine fully advanced set the timing to 35 degrees,now do it again, note the rpm that it takes until the engines fully advanced, what you want is the engine fully advanced by 1200 rpm to 35 degrees,thats total advance and it also tells you your advance curve. This will give ya a lot more spark advance and the engine will respond. If ya run an msd dist and you arent advancing fully at 1200 rpm change the springs and or the button. This is generally speaking, works for me....

[FullTimeRacing]

If ya got vacuum advance remove the hose from the distributor pot and plug it,get an adjustable knob type timing lite,have someone sit in the car and watch the tach, lets say ya want 35 degrees total as an example, set the light at 35 and give the car some rpm until the balancer mark stops moving, I like fully advanced in a race only car around idle or by 1200 rpm,on a street racer say 2000 rpm, with the engine fully advanced set the timing to 35 degrees,now do it again, note the rpm that it takes until the engines fully advanced, what you want is the engine fully advanced by 1200 rpm to 35 degrees,thats total advance and it also tells you your advance curve. This will give ya a lot more spark advance and the engine will respond. If ya run an msd dist and you arent advancing fully at 1200 rpm change the springs and or the button. This is generally speaking, works for me....

he has a lock out dizzy,bring it to 3000 put it where you want.

[mopar1962]

Be nice to know what curve your locking in though wouldnt it?.....

[FullTimeRacing]

Be nice to know what curve your locking in though wouldnt it?.....

there is no curve,it's locked.whit all due respect

[mopar1962]

Hell if ya gotta remove the springs and weights to lock out the dizzy maybe its time for a better unit..... :lol:

[OneBadGMC]

You shouldn't be setting the timing at idle anyhow.

Always rev the motor and watch the timing during RPM climbing.

The valve train has to be loaded to properly set the timing.

It can't be done right at idle, or at a constant RPM because there will always be slack in the chain.

As was said prior, make sure the cam isn't walking either.HOW SHOULD I SET IT

I just told you in that post.

[OneBadGMC]

Hell if ya gotta remove the springs and weights to lock out the dizzy maybe its time for a better unit..... :lol:

Maybe if you need weights and a timing curve you should stick to street rods. Race cars don't need timing curves.

[mopar1962]

maybe if you knew how to set an advance curve ya wouldnt need to gut the distributor, slack in the chain? when the engines running it should take out the slack or maybe if your a real racer you would use a gear drive hotshot... :lol:

[FullTimeRacing]

maybe if you knew how to set an advance curve ya wouldnt need to gut the distributor, slack in the chain? when the engines running it should take out the slack or maybe if your a real racer you would use a gear drive hotshot... :lol:

At what rpm is a dizzy fully advanced?

[mopar1962]

on my ride 1200rpm ,and im 2 seconds quicker than you friend,and my distributor isnt gutted,, oh, and the other things called a cam button...

[FullTimeRacing]

on my ride 1200rpm ,and im 2 seconds quicker than you friend,and my distributor isnt gutted,, oh, and the other things called a cam button...

my car idles at 1500 RPM what good would it do? :roll: :roll:

[OneBadGMC]

maybe if you knew how to set an advance curve ya wouldnt need to gut the distributor, slack in the chain? when the engines running it should take out the slack or maybe if your a real racer you would use a gear drive hotshot... :lol:

http://www.donovanengineering.com/GearDrives/Dscn4520.jpg

I do use a Donovan gear drive, and MSD pro mags dont have springs/weights timing curves, so I didnt gut anything.

Any other comments to put your foot in your face?

[OneBadGMC]

At what rpm is a dizzy fully advanced?

It depends on how it's setup.

The springs/weights determine the timing curve of the distributor.

Most distributors can also be changed as to the total amount of timing advance.

So, to find that out, you'll need to find someone with a distributor machine to spin it up and find out how much total advance, what RPM the advance starts, and how fast the advance ramps in.

[wizbang]

The reason it "normally" changes so bad is due to too much cam end play ! Tighten up the end play. 000-.005 at most.

Thats if the rest of the distributor is in good shape !

[mopar1962]

your ride idles at 1500 rpm,what effect would it have?your gonna be faster? the effect would be your totally advanced,mechanical,and centrifugal,meaning around 65% more spark advance,meaning the engine will respond,yes,one more time to put my foot in my mouth,why would ya need a distributor machine.I just told ya how to check the distributors advance curve the easy way, it isnt rocket science....

[CamBirdRacing]

the outer ring on the balancer is loose. happened to me a couple of years ago.

[mopar1962]

psst gm, it aint about your ride, magneto, no shit,ahahaha

[mopar1962]

monte, whats locked out timing mean? It means your fully advanced when the cars fired up ,all in at idle,last post on the subject....

[curtisreed]

monte, whats locked out timing mean? It means your fully advanced when the cars fired up ,all in at idle,last post on the subject....

I say thanks then.

[JEFF69Z28]

IM STILL LOST,MY DIST.IS LOCKED OUT,SET TIMING AT IDLE OR REV MOTOR TO 3000 RPM AND LOCK IT DOWN?AT IDLE ITS 34 SHOULDNT IT BE 34 AT WIDE OPEN THROTTLE.

[desoto30]

well it should be 34* 7 what is it at revs?

[FullTimeRacing]

monte, whats locked out timing mean? It means your fully advanced when the cars fired up ,all in at idle,last post on the subject....

I run a crank trigger, have a 5000 stall and a gear drive. I don't need no stinking curve.that's just more junk to brake.

[suicidebomb]

Yes Jeff it SHOULD still be at 34* at wot, BUT, it ain't necassarily so. As these guys said, before the argument, the clearances at idle can fool you into thinking you're setting the timing one place, but actually you're locking it down in another. That's why your timing appears to retard a little, as you speed the engine rpm up, all the clearences settle down, and you see where you've actually locked it down. Setting the timing at 3000 rpm is a good idea, cause it settles the clearences, and lets you see where you're actually setting timing at. Hope this helps.

[FullTimeRacing]

maybe if you knew how to set an advance curve ya wouldnt need to gut the distributor, slack in the chain? when the engines running it should take out the slack or maybe if your a real racer you would use a gear drive hotshot... :lol:

http://www.donovanengineering.com/GearDrives/Dscn4520.jpg

I do use a Donovan gear drive, and MSD pro mags dont have springs/weights timing curves, so I didnt gut anything.

Any other comments to put your foot in your face?

nice gear drive

mine is the same,but made by erson

[OneBadGMC]

Yes Jeff it SHOULD still be at 34* at wot, BUT, it ain't necassarily so. As these guys said, before the argument, the clearances at idle can fool you into thinking you're setting the timing one place, but actually you're locking it down in another. That's why your timing appears to retard a little, as you speed the engine rpm up, all the clearences settle down, and you see where you've actually locked it down. Setting the timing at 3000 rpm is a good idea, cause it settles the clearences, and lets you see where you're actually setting timing at. Hope this helps.

Depending on the quality of the parts and build of the motor, a constant RPM even at increased RPMs may not be the answer.

Thats why I said rev the motor and look at the timing during the up swing of the RPMs.

The timing during engine acceleration is the timing that will be seen on the track.

Now, that being said, if you use engine RPM acceleration to note timing, and then double check it at 3,000, you then know that they are the same. Motors and tolerances will vary.

[OneBadGMC]

psst gm, it aint about your ride, magneto, no s,ahahaha

on my ride 1200rpm ,and im 2 seconds quicker than you friend,and my distributor isnt gutted,, oh, and the other things called a cam button...

It's not about your ride either, chump.

[JEFF69Z28]

Yes Jeff it SHOULD still be at 34* at wot, BUT, it ain't necassarily so. As these guys said, before the argument, the clearances at idle can fool you into thinking you're setting the timing one place, but actually you're locking it down in another. That's why your timing appears to retard a little, as you speed the engine rpm up, all the clearences settle down, and you see where you've actually locked it down. Setting the timing at 3000 rpm is a good idea, cause it settles the clearences, and lets you see where you're actually setting timing at. Hope this helps.

Depending on the quality of the parts and build of the motor, a constant RPM even at increased RPMs may not be the answer.

Thats why I said rev the motor and look at the timing during the up swing of the RPMs.

The timing during engine acceleration is the timing that will be seen on the track.

Now, that being said, if you use engine RPM acceleration to note timing, and then double check it at 3,000, you then know that they are the same. Motors and tolerances will vary.MOTOR HAS ALL TOP NOTCH PARTS,THANKS FOR THE HELP,I NOW KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I NEED TO DO.

[suicidebomb]

Yes Jeff it SHOULD still be at 34* at wot, BUT, it ain't necassarily so. As these guys said, before the argument, the clearances at idle can fool you into thinking you're setting the timing one place, but actually you're locking it down in another. That's why your timing appears to retard a little, as you speed the engine rpm up, all the clearences settle down, and you see where you've actually locked it down. Setting the timing at 3000 rpm is a good idea, cause it settles the clearences, and lets you see where you're actually setting timing at. Hope this helps.

Depending on the quality of the parts and build of the motor, a constant RPM even at increased RPMs may not be the answer.

Thats why I said rev the motor and look at the timing during the up swing of the RPMs.

The timing during engine acceleration is the timing that will be seen on the track.

Now, that being said, if you use engine RPM acceleration to note timing, and then double check it at 3,000, you then know that they are the same. Motors and tolerances will vary.MOTOR HAS ALL TOP NOTCH PARTS,THANKS FOR THE HELP,I NOW KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I NEED TO DO.

Awww, :lol: I don't know anything about timing lights, I set ignition timing with a Buzz Box. :lol: