Pro Comp heads

[bluesmoke]

Looking to buy a pump gas 540 from Nyes, Not sure about the Pro Comp heads, The info I've gotten from other sites pretty much say they are no good, Anyone used these or would I be better off with AFR, Dart etc. I would think the other heads shouldn't hurt the Hp or torque numbers

[bubbabbc]

Pro Comp heads are absolute junk. If you waste your money, and possibly your engine, you will soon forget the cheap price. I would have second thoughts about using an engine shop that would assemble an engine with Pro Comp heads. DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hammertime]

Looking to buy a pump gas 540 from Nyes, Not sure about the Pro Comp heads, The info I've gotten from other sites pretty much say they are no good, Anyone used these or would I be better off with AFR, Dart etc. I would think the other heads shouldn't hurt the Hp or torque numbers

Use what nyes suggest .. they've more then done the homework

[bluesmoke]

Thanks for the input, I will stay away from the Pro Comp heads. I've read nothing but bad things about Pro Comp. Has anyone bought from Nyes? From what I've read they seem to be honest and build a good motor. I'm looking to buy a chevy big block crate engine 540 up to a 565 around 700 to 750 hp and as much torque as I can get on pump gas, There's a ton of company's out there and it's hard to know who is truely honest and build what they advertise. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[RonOwensRacing]

My opinion why pro comp heads got a bad rap is a lot of people are selling them complete assyl. by pro comp .
The bare heads are fine we have done tons of them using good parts in them and we have had no problems with them.
And I'm sure there are plenty of engine builders that have used them with out problems the pro comp valves are very heavy and the springs they have are also not very good .
I'm sure Nye's would not use them if they were junk .
Now with that being said you can improve the heads by doing some hand work on them every set we do we don't just put them together and ship them and i tell my customers that also. but we cant sell them as cheap as some are here on rj because we use ferra manley and comp parts in them and iv heard that a lot that they can buy them cheaper and you can but i would not recommend it and i want sell them with pro comp parts in them .
A person should buy there heads for what they are using them for and the power range they are looking for.
If you want to get the most power from a set of heads i would recommend (Curtis Boggs) for that he is one of the best in the business.

We have built plenty of the pro comp heads and and they have put out some pretty impressive no#'s at the track for what they are but again they was not thrown together at pro comp.
Just My 2 cents worth I'm not trying to sell anyone heads or tell them to buy the pro comp heads there just not a bad head for the money.

[hammertime]

Thanks for the input, I will stay away from the Pro Comp heads. I've read nothing but bad things about Pro Comp. Has anyone bought from Nyes? From what I've read they seem to be honest and build a good motor. I'm looking to buy a chevy big block crate engine 540 up to a 565 around 700 to 750 hp and as much torque as I can get on pump gas, There's a ton of company's out there and it's hard to know who is truely honest and build what they advertise. Any input would be greatly appreciated.


Nyes is top notch, call and ask for Pat. Tell him David Lanning sent ya. May help ya out a little bit.

Here is a few topics on nyes
http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=9896

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=9995&highlight=nyes

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=8939&highlight=nyes

http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=5718&highlight=nyes

[bubbabbc]

I cannot understand why anyone would risk destroying an engine worth thousands and thousands of dollars by using a set of junk heads to save a few hundred dollars. Worse yet, is paying to have the junk heads "gone over and touched-up". You can polish a turd all you want, but it is still of a piece of sh*t. Learn from others' mistakes, go with quality heads. A top-notch engine shop will refuse to use junk, polished or unpolished. JMHO

[hammertime]

A top-notch engine shop will refuse to use junk, polished or unpolished. JMHO


They will for a pump gas budget motor :lol: :wink:

[gungho]

Hey bubbabbc why dont you back up your bad mouthing procomp with some facts,oh let me guess,you are just flapping your gums about what you heard.

[Tod74]

Here is an opinion that should help you decide if considering.Copied from a thread on speedtalk. http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3318&highlight=procomp

I have some experience with them, ..

In general the castings are weak so I wouldn't port on them too much or put a huge valve spring on them.
If you keep the cam small for a roller and avoid the 360lb seat pressure some cams like you should be OK.

Take them to a good machine shop and have the valve guide clearance
checked and have the valve seats cut. Do a light clean up of the casting
blend under the seats, .. and go have fun.

The one I flowed before trying to port did not flow the advertised numbers, .. but these days, ..
what head really does. It should do just fine for your application.

It's an OK head for the price, .. but like any inexpensive race part, .. the economics are short term, ..
meaning in general the lower quality that goes with the lower price in general means
the part will not perform well or as long as the quality part, .. and could cost more in the long term.

Should be fun in a dragster, ..

Curtis

I haven't had a chance to see a set of these yet. But from what I am understanding the heads would be good on a hot street car, maby mild bracket racer?

I don't think so, ..

Curtis

[gungho]

Wow, that is from June of 06,thats three years ago,is that all you got?????????,kinda sad when people bash because thats what they heard.

[Tod74]

Wow, that is from June of 06,thats three years ago,is that all you got?????????,kinda sad when people bash because thats what they heard.

Boy you sure are defensive...You must sell these heads.

I never bashed anything :roll: I said "Here is an opinion that should help you decide.... I posted that because Curtis Boggs is well respected in regards to cylinder heads.

A search on speedtalk will get you 50 plus results if you want to go read all about it...I don't care. I have seen a set in person and all I know from looking at them is the intake ports are very small...I don't mean runner volume I mean the opening...you can see it they are not as big as a stock GM rectangular port BBC head...so right off the bat they would have to be opened up ...maybe they fixed that since then I don't know and don't care.

[gungho]

Flow numbers as tested on a Super Flow Bench:

LIFT INT EX

.100 74.3 62.0

.200 166 118

.300 245 160

.400 308 195

.500 340 229

.600 360 248

.700 375 265

[bubbabbc]

In regards to the ProComp bbc heads that I have personally worked on, half were outright unacceptable, and returned. Of the sets that were kept, most needed considerable rework. This includes valve seats that were up to .025" off center of the valve guide. Also heads that had varying seat depth (stem height). Several heads needed seats replaced due to excessive depth and seat contact area too wide. Most of the time, the machined dimensions were consist from cylinder to cylinder in the same head, but varied too much as a set. I suppose someone could buy 20-30 sets and end up with 5-10 good pairs. But, unfortunately for the customer, shops don't work for free. The appealing low purchase price is soon gone due to needed rework. When you're all done, you're close to the price of Dart/Brodix/AFR, and the quality still isn't there.

Now, ProComp problems that I have personally seen, but didn't work on include valve spring seat pocket breaking through because of lack of material, which was caused by casting core shift. This occurred on a head that had springs for .635" lift. Also, a pair of heads that varied 3 cc in volume from head to head. These problems were observed at other shops, and then can complaints of many more additional problems with ProComp heads. I guess you could call that "lip flapping".

This topic was started with questions regarding using Pro Comp heads on an engine in the 700-750 hp range. I highly recommend staying far away from Pro Comp.

Finally, relate to us the personally experiences you have had with Pro Comp heads. How may sets have you worked on?

In closing, this is my position. I will set a customer Dart, Brodix, AFR, even Edelbrock. But I refuse to sell anyone a set of Pro Comp heads.
But then again, my customers don't race printed flow bench numbers. Maybe these heads are a bargain for bench racers.

[bigray]

Well,,bubbabbc .. i think you ansewered the mans question very well..thanks for the heads up..

[gungho]

Wow bubbabbc you are a big time engine builder I see this now,Please post up your website,so I can see your shop,products,ect.. thank you

[bubbabbc]

Gungho, you have a pm

[hammertime]

Wow bubbabbc you are a big time engine builder I see this now,Please post up your website,so I can see your shop,products,ect.. thank you

Id like the website also

[bubbabbc]

I'm not going to help this topic get into a bigger pissing contest than it already has. Bluesmoke asked for opinions concerning cylinder heads. I gave him my thoughts, and why. If he elects to pony up and buy quality heads, great. If he opts to go with the ProComps, that's ok too. I didn't try to sell him heads, and I didn't try to get his work. I'm certain whichever shop he chooses to do his engine will be glad if he goes with the proven heads.
Brotherton at Brodix, Mastin at Dart, and Sperling at AFR market quality cylinder heads because it's their love, not just their business. When they finish their production runs of bbc heads, they'll move on to sbc, or sbf. What is the Chinese factory gonna run next, sbc or 10,000 garbage disposal housings. I honestly don't know, do you?
When a company markets poor quality products or services, that not only hurt the customer, they also hurt the companies that provide quality parts and services. If a customer has a limited amount to spend on an engine, and he gets straddled with junk, it leaves him with bad feelings towards the industry in general.
If you have any further thoughts, concerns, or questions in regard to my opinions, contact me. Let's not bore everyone else with a personal debate. Sorry if I offended anyone, my intent was to offer bluesmoke my opinion on cylinder heads.

Skip Ohnmacht
www.portcitymachine.com

[gungho]

But again,you show no proof that procomp are junk,you just bowed out,this is why I asked,I would love to put my 540 with my junk heads against anything that you show on that website,btw I nor anyone I know that races ever heard of you,but when I said Nyes,they all but one said they heard of him,I wonder why that is????? :) well I do know why But I will keep my non fact based opinion to myself,as my mother taught me to do.again I just asked for you to back up your claims,as I also was intrested ,sorry for calling you out,I didnt mean to upset you. :0

[Tod74]

He did back them up with facts and personal experience...unless he was lying of coarse...that's what you asked him....share his experience that he based his opinion on.
I wasn't bashing or promoting. I wouldn't be afraid to use them on something with a small spring...I wish I could find it, but there was a seller/engine guy that advertises on ebay that did a pretty detailed write up on them...they built a set and put them on a chevelle they had with a BBC and then dynoes it. He went into a lot of detail about them and gave his OPINION based on what he saw when he did the heads...best I remember his only big complaint was he didn't think the casting was thick enough if they were cut for big springs....What sort of spring preasure are you running, how long have you owned the heads and how do you like the heads so far?

In regards to the ProComp bbc heads that I have personally worked on, half were outright unacceptable, and returned. Of the sets that were kept, most needed considerable rework. This includes valve seats that were up to .025" off center of the valve guide. Also heads that had varying seat depth (stem height). Several heads needed seats replaced due to excessive depth and seat contact area too wide. Most of the time, the machined dimensions were consist from cylinder to cylinder in the same head, but varied too much as a set.

[gungho]

I think the e-bay guy you mean is Skip White,and I think they were sbc heads,what I know is when they first hit the market there were some flaws but there are a lot of good builders using the bbc bare casting and installing their parts,and having good results.again I meant nothing negative here,But I dislike when people say"I heard",and lets be real,all the big name guys have had their share of issues over the years........just my .02

[bubbabbc]

Gungho, I have a good customer that lives about 10 miles from you in Haverhill. Maybe I'll get a chance to check out your 540. It will have to be at the track, cuz we don't street race.

[hammertime]

I'm not going to help this topic get into a bigger pissing contest than it already has. Bluesmoke asked for opinions concerning cylinder heads. I gave him my thoughts, and why. If he elects to pony up and buy quality heads, great. If he opts to go with the ProComps, that's ok too. I didn't try to sell him heads, and I didn't try to get his work. I'm certain whichever shop he chooses to do his engine will be glad if he goes with the proven heads.
Brotherton at Brodix, Mastin at Dart, and Sperling at AFR market quality cylinder heads because it's their love, not just their business. When they finish their production runs of bbc heads, they'll move on to sbc, or sbf. What is the Chinese factory gonna run next, sbc or 10,000 garbage disposal housings. I honestly don't know, do you?
When a company markets poor quality products or services, that not only hurt the customer, they also hurt the companies that provide quality parts and services. If a customer has a limited amount to spend on an engine, and he gets straddled with junk, it leaves him with bad feelings towards the industry in general.
If you have any further thoughts, concerns, or questions in regard to my opinions, contact me. Let's not bore everyone else with a personal debate. Sorry if I offended anyone, my intent was to offer bluesmoke my opinion on cylinder heads.

Skip Ohnmacht
www.portcitymachine.com

I was just asking for a website ... and like I said before I am sure its not nyes 1st choice, but know they wouldnt use them if they werent good enough to use. They build a ton of motors and I am sure have used them several times if they sell them on pump gas motors.

I also know even the best head guys (one mentioned on this post) can screw up good heads so maybe not all sets have been junk ??

[bubbabbc]

Bluesmoke asked for opinions about cylinder heads. I answered as honestly as I could. IMO, buying Pro Comp heads is like rolling the dice.
Do you feel lucky? The one thing that bothers me the most about these heads is what I don't see. What am I overlooking? When you compare the money you may save if you're fortunate against the cost of what you may lose if you're not, the odds, IMO, are not good. For a few hundred bucks more, buy the good stuff. There is no doubt in my mind that Nye's is a very competent shop. If they're comfortable using the Pro Comp, great. I'm not.

[gungho]

Gungho, I have a good customer that lives about 10 miles from you in Haverhill. Maybe I'll get a chance to check out your 540. It will have to be at the track, cuz we don't street race.

That is great,I dont street race either,Just let me know when to meet your"good customer' at New England Dragway,on a Wed. or Fri. night in the next two weeks,and this will be settled,but dont wait,cause I cant,now I'm all exited to show you my "Junk".Here is you chance to back up your claim,hurry now people are waiting.

[Tod74]

Gungho, I have a good customer that lives about 10 miles from you in Haverhill. Maybe I'll get a chance to check out your 540. It will have to be at the track, cuz we don't street race.

That is great,I dont street race either,Just let me know when to meet your"good customer' at New England Dragway,on a Wed. or Fri. night in the next two weeks,and this will be settled,but dont wait,cause I cant,now I'm all exited to show you my "Junk".Here is you chance to back up your claim,hurry now people are waiting.

You are getting all upset because he insulted the brand of cylinder head you chose to put on your engine???...LMFAO

[bubbabbc]

Hey gungho, I told you I had a good customer in MA. Who said drag racing customer? When are you gonna answer the questions? How much experience have you got with Pro Comp heads. You're the one evading the truth. I don't own a drag car. I do mostly oval track engines.
You bought sh*t heads and now you're insulted. Do you also own a Daewoo? C'mon keyboard jockey, tell us you're story. Who are you?
What's your times?

[gungho]

Hey gungho, I told you I had a good customer in MA. Who said drag racing customer? When are you gonna answer the questions? How much experience have you got with Pro Comp heads. You're the one evading the truth. I don't own a drag car. I do mostly oval track engines.
You bought sh*t heads and now you're insulted. Do you also own a Daewoo? C'mon keyboard jockey, tell us you're story. Who are you?
What's your times?

Oh here we go,I told you we can settle this at the track,so why do I need to post my times?you have officially backed down from your challenge,so please slow down and turn left,just like your "good customers do" :)

[gungho]

You are getting all upset because he insulted the brand of cylinder head you chose to put on your engine???...LMFAO
_________________

Yea o.k. me offering to race my "junk" is getting upset? Tod74 you are the with a tubbed car with no chute,Yea,you must be flyin.....

[michael1]

Tod, it sounds like he is calling you out. :lol: :lol:

[Tod74]

I don't need a parachute...I have brakes. :lol: I do have one though...but it is not mounted on the back...I wad it up in my lap and toss it out the window...

And yes...you are upset.You have been defensive about the heads this whole thread....

And what does my car have to do with this? I never said anything about your car being fast,slow junk etc... :) But why don't you post up a picture of yours and what mind blowing times it has ran at the track?I'm dying to know.

[gungho]

Wow!!Tod74 I just noticed those are Greg Weld wheels on your car??Man I have heard a lot of bad things about them,heavy,take forever to get,poor customer service ect.. well anyway maybe you should have bought the higher quality wheels,but then again maybe you were saving money??LMAO2 :)

[gungho]

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1142/70camarohome006.jpg

I,d show the front,but you wouldn't recognize Me,Btw tod74 the chute mount is behind the plate,and as far as posting times,no thanks I grudge race this car,

[gungho]

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/8471/fall08veganovatruck002dc7.jpg

[gungho]

Just a couple of my "junk" cars :)

[bubbabbc]

Oh, yeah, gungho, what ounce of proof do you have that they're your cars? Either prove it, or quit your jaw flapping, like you did on your vast Pro Comp experiences.

[gungho]

Well bubbabbc only a dishonest person would think I would post up pics of someones cars,and you keep throwing insults ,I never said I had a vast knowledge on procomp stuff,infact you did.Every time you post a reply,you show your intelligence,therefore I dont have to stoop to your level of insults,I merely asked you to support your claim about procomp,and you turned this into a childish game.Oh and you also do boat motors??? you need to focus more on your website and less on this one,putting down a product which you have no knowledge,again have your good customer meet me at NED and you can see I own these cars,thank you.

[bigray]

Now,Now,,boys dont make me seperate you two..play nice..

[MEMRACING62]

Now,Now,,boys dont make me seperate you two..play nice.. NOW SEE WHAT YA DID , THE COPS ARE HERE :!: :P :P

[Harbone]

well I better get some popcorn, this could take awhile...

[Tod74]

This is funny...dude taking it personal cause someone said something bad about PRO COMP HEADS..

:lol: :lol: :lol:

For what it's worth I never said anything bad about the heads or your car. Show some pics of the front and side...it looks like a cool car.




P.S. My wheels are Centerline's not Greg Weld and I wish I'd never bought them

[whitey70ss]

Tod i THOUGHT EVERYONE KNEW YOU HAD CENTERLINES!! :shock:

[dragonmaster093]

great pissing contest should i get all pissy cause some one called my car a tuna boat on another thread nah cause it is and its some one elses OPINION just cause one builder swears by or uses a product exclusivly and another dont because theyve had bad luck or dont care for they quality who cares THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY AND AS SUCH EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION JUST AGREE TO DISSAGREE

[dparker]

Flow numbers as tested on a Super Flow Bench:

LIFT INT EX

.100 74.3 62.0

.200 166 118

.300 245 160

.400 308 195

.500 340 229

.600 360 248

.700 375 265



Well Bungho, Tod74 and bubbabbc are intitled to their opinions and as for looking at their past posts compared to yours, I'd lean toward taking their advice over yours anyday. Curtis didn't say they were no good, he just said you couldn't port as big and that they had less potential, doesn't mean you can't port them and get decent numbers. They just don't have alot of potential. There a good set of heads, just not a real good set of heads. Sorry, you can't have a discussion without getting your feeling hurt. Maybe this will help..
EVERYBODY PRO-COMP HEADS ARE THE BEST HEADS ON THE MARKET!! and if you have any questions please PM Bungho, he is the resident expert.
Well Bungho, Hope that helps your hurt feelings.

[gungho]

Well Dsucker who asked you?And Yea,People who post more are better people,you are wicked smart,you cant even understand what my response was about,but then again you do race a aerodynamic truck....

[gungho]

Pro Comp heads are absolute junk. If you waste your money, and possibly your engine, you will soon forget the cheap price. I would have second thoughts about using an engine shop that would a an engine with Pro Comp heads. DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To anyone who see this as an opinion,well,its not worth explaining to all the people who would rather bash ,than keep their negativity and name calling at the playgroung.P.s this thread was over when bubbabbc stopped responding.

[bluesmoke]

I hate that my question got a little out of hand with the replies. But I understand and respect that everyone has there own thoughts on this. Now back to the other part of the question about who builds a motor that will perform as advertised. I have read big names Shafiroff, Reher Morrison etc. have sold motors that ended up no so great, I saw where a 540 from Shafiroff was sold as 695 hp and the buyer wasn't happy with the performance and pulled the motor out and took it to a dyno on his own and claims the hp was 150 less than advertised, It seems to me none are real honest about the advertised figures no matter who the builder is. I'm hoping for some replies that have had motors built by someone honest, Seems like word of mouth may be the best route to go here. I am looking for a 540 with 700 or so hp but needs to be streeable. Thanks

[hammertime]

I hate that my question got a little out of hand with the replies. But I understand and respect that everyone has there own thoughts on this. Now back to the other part of the question about who builds a motor that will perform as advertised. I have read big names Shafiroff, Reher Morrison etc. have sold motors that ended up no so great, I saw where a 540 from Shafiroff was sold as 695 hp and the buyer wasn't happy with the performance and pulled the motor out and took it to a dyno on his own and claims the hp was 150 less than advertised, It seems to me none are real honest about the advertised figures no matter who the builder is. I'm hoping for some replies that have had motors built by someone honest, Seems like word of mouth may be the best route to go here. I am looking for a 540 with 700 or so hp but needs to be streeable. Thanks

Not true with most on #'s actually, Shafiroff are a bunch of crooks so that dont suprise me.

Nyes 582 they sell advertised is 965hp I bieleve, mine made 1013 :D

[dparker]

If I was going to buy it would be Reher Morrison or Nyes.

[hammertime]

If I was going to buy it would be Reher Morrison or Nyes.

x2, Reher is top notch also, all depends on what parts/price your wallet can afford :wink:

this things sure arent cheap !

[Joes69]

hello I just saw this posting and I have a set of procomps on my car right now..454 chevy.they are what you pay for no doubt.I have pulled 3 rocker studs out so far with the cheap springs that procomp sells on the complete heads.The design isnt very good there is just no meat for the thread on the intake valve rockerstuds.The casting is slightly more porous than a good head so that even weakens the area more.I couldnt even imagine running alot of spring pressure on these heads it would be a ticking timebomb.So far I havent actually broken a boss its just pulled the heli coils out.I have my machine guy put a keen sert in it and go on.Its almost impossible to get the valve covers to seal on these things also.I paid 950 complete for mine so I got what I paid for I would just suggest you do your homework before purchasing..good luck

[chrisr]

Hey gungho, I have nothing to say for or against Pro Comp heads because I don't know anything about them so I am not here to argue or jump on you so don't take it that way. But as far as someone having a car without a parachute and you questioning how fast it can be, my car has no parachute and if I ran at a sanctioned track they would throw me out. The few tracks I frequent are non sanctioned so I don't have to have one and they have plenty of shutdown. I have a Camaro like the one you have so of course I like it. If your ever in Texas(I didn't notice where you are from) shoot me an email and we can meet up and go have some fun.

[Tod74]

I can't run an NHRA track either. Car doesn't need a chute because I don't think it would go 150 mph but it would need to be certified.

[DirkaDirka]

OK I couldnt keep my mouth shut on this. I may not know what products are good and whichh ones are bad. But I will not insult the guys on here when they are stating their own opinions on a certaiin product and think I am a bad azz and think I own the fastest car on the track. Heck Gungho doesnt even have the nuts to race in an actual event. Instead he "grudge" races. Honestly if the guys on here sya a product is bad and it is better to get this other product then I am going to be listening to them cuz they are the ones that are on the track using these parts. Spending their hard earned money to keep their car going down the track.There is A LOT of experience in this forum from building engines to driving. I think I am done now.

[Tod74]

OK I couldnt keep my mouth shut on this. I may not know what products are good and whichh ones are bad. But I will not insult the guys on here when they are stating their own opinions on a certaiin product and think I am a bad azz and think I own the fastest car on the track. Heck Gungho doesnt even have the nuts to race in an actual event. Instead he "grudge" races. Honestly if the guys on here sya a product is bad and it is better to get this other product then I am going to be listening to them cuz they are the ones that are on the track using these parts. Spending their hard earned money to keep their car going down the track.There is A LOT of experience in this forum from building engines to driving. I think I am done now.

I think the point gungho was trying to make was

"Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.Speak on what you have experienced not what you have heard."


Just my take on it


P.S. Just found this in an ad on RACINGJUNK for a set of PROCOMPS

http://static.racingjunk.com/63/ui/8/30/7453401120666-BBC-PRO-COMP-HEADS.jpg

[DirkaDirka]

Yeah i was getting both sides of the stroy till he started to puff his chest and throw out challanges to people he didnt even what they ran. And then started talking sh@@ to people that werent even involved. I get mad when I am thrown into stuff I dont have anything to do with.

[littlehotrod]

well talking about heads..im getting me a set of Brand New set of DART heads tomorrow and they are 215 Runners and 64CC with 205/160 Valves and set up with 700 Lift Max Springs for Solid Roller Cams and Steal Retainers and i dont remember if they are a 7Degree or 10 Degree Locks..the Valves are Stanless Steal and these are Cast heads.. So what i was wanting to know will these put a Good HP or can i do something to them that will make them give out more Hp..Like what can i go to make them flow or perform better..Or do you think that it will have enough HP like they are..So what can i do to make them Perform Better But want cost me a Arm and a Leg to do it???????