bird or terminator or carb on gas ??????

[goldenj]

i run a 582 bbc 15 to 1 rfd edelbrock 24 in 1900 lb dragster i've used the bird injection in the past on a smaller 540 steel headed bbc but looking at the terminator or carb on gas or back to the hat set up.really having a problem deciding.which would be Faster which whould be more Consistant any info would be great thanks jeff

[hammertime]

I havea 582 in my dragster, always been a huge APD alky carb fan, got this setup turnkey with a terminator from James Monroe and its deadly.
A carb will be slower then the injection .05-.10 sometimes more. A 582 conv headed motor is a basic tuneup for the terminator and James would hit the nail on the head from the get go. I know he did a 582 with the rfd heads on it this year from a fellow racer nailed that tune up. www.killerrons.com

Good luck with whatever you choice, @ 1900lbs that setup should get it. :D

[ashbros]

I've ran both and perfer the hat myself. Once your set up it isn't too hard to change a pill,

[zipper06]

I'm out in left field on this one, if i had the motor i would just have to put this set of 3" Crower stacks with alcohol on it that i have.

Zip.

[goldenj]

thanks for all the info. i had the motor out bout 12 passes last year late i put a bone stock 1150 on gas just to break it in at 28 degrees timing it ran 5.04 138 the next pass i put it to 36 degrees it ran 4.91 at 141.67, i tell ya love the rfd heads curtis knows his stuff the motor was just off the trailer on the 12 th pass i wrecked saved the motor i just went thru it put oliver billets in it changed rings bearings all ready to go again.! i just want to put the best induction on it that will use all the motors horsepower thats it built for. i love alky and i think a terminator is going to be the way to go. thanks again jeff

[goldenj]

another thing i was thinking about is putting a small fogger on it once i get everything figured out but i've run blown alky brfore but never nos. i heard it's not too good or easy to run with alky. any info on this would be great thanks jeff

[hammertime]

Jeff its actually very easy to run nitrous with the alky, I run a plate system on mine 50 to 300hp setup. Never ran a fogger but the plate is simple, its a alky enriched instead of gas so that makes it easier. Nitrous Express has a good handle on alky setups.

You'll be mighty suprised in the difference in et between that bone stock 1150 and the terminator. I dyno'd my motor with the terminator but had a 1250 Rupert (motor shops carb) on it first big difference across the board. You should be a 4.70's car easily enough.

[goldenj]

4.70's would be great i hope to get the motor on the dyno should make some good power i 'm shooting for 1,000 hp . right now back halfing my "new"97 s&w 4-link to bring into the 21st century last years car was an old hardtail. jeff

[hammertime]

I'd bet you make over 1000hp, mine was what id call a pump gas friendly 582 converted to alky and it made 965 without the vac pump. This winter I changed compression, rod combo and bet it makes 1000.

Yours with 15:1 comp, the rfd heads, with the right cam with a terminator should go 1050. Mine weighs 1965lbs with me in it 965hp went 4.75@146, the year before as a hardtail same combo it went 4.67@148. Converter is key to get them to ET. :D

[goldenj]

i run a bullet cam 864 lift int 800 ext with t&d 1.8/1.7 shafts and a star vac. pump i'd really love to get on a dyno !!!

[hammertime]

That thing should make big hp star pump is worth 20-30 if you have low tension rings with it, your cam is much bigger then mine so that will help things.

[goldenj]

i run the rings and put the cam where curtis told me to to better use the heads flow. at 900 lift the heads flow 465 ish 325 ish on the exh huge numbers for conventional heads i did talk to james monroe he makes 1200 hp with his 582 with 1 terminator thats impressive i asked if there was an advantage to running duel terminators and he said it would be a waste of money on my combo and that 1 is perfect.sounds like a straight shooter to me jeff

[hammertime]

Yep thats Monroe he and I have talked several times about the dual terminator setup feels its a waste of money slim to no et to be had there.
That schmidt 584 he had sure did fly ! I'd bet yours goes high 4.60 low 4.70's and 7.3-4's.

Mine is 806/765 lift cam, BMF 385 heads fully cnc'd, sniper intake, comp this year will be 14.5:1 which will help things. Converter is loose 6700 stall TSI spragless, 16" rim 17x33.5 hoosiers, 4:10 gear. I cross the 1/4 stripe at 7050rpms. I also added low tension rings this winter to help with the moroso vacuum pump. not huge changes but little ones make a huge difference sometimes.

James has a great setup for that terminator on this size motor, 80 pill, 39 or 40 nozzel and 27% leak down on the barrel valve.

[goldenj]

i was hoping to run into some one that uses the sniper.im using one this year on the advice of my engine builder.i've used the super victor for years nice manifold but i think there something in the sniper.i have a 3.90 gear in the car now i'm told but i do want to put a 4.10 back into it.we run 1/8 mile sat.nights and 1/4 at a different track on sundays.i don't know if a gear change matters much. last year i'd leave at 4800 shift at 7600 go thru 1/8 bout 7000 with a 4.10. i had lunati pro mods in it for just 12 passes they held up great but i put the olivers in it this winter because there a 1300 hp rod and those heads pulled hard to the 7600 shift put me back in the seat!!!.then again we didn't even get a chance to start moving things around to get the best settings on everything.thanks for the nozzle setting etc. really helpful my engine builder called and has a good bead on a new complete terminator so i'll see how that goes.what kind of timing do you run?i'm at 36 degrees ,too much?

[ashbros]

Well guys you may find it odd, But I run alky as primary fuel I run a nitrous fogger system with race fuel. I find I get a greater response of HP and you can really feel it comming on. It takes a little more than just bolting on a kit but the results are worth it for me.

[ashbros]

goldenJ
How do you like that star vac pump
What size pump do you have
Where did you purchase it.
What did it cost

[goldenj]

i've heard of duel systems alky/gas i'm looking to just use nos at sweet 16's or q-8's but be all motor on race days so might be something to look into with plumbing and space problems that seam to come with owning dragsters.now i'm leaning back to the hat setup. thinking i can always put a terminator on later in the year IF the hat(or maybe stack)injection isn't working out for me and i just love them.One thing about a dragster real easy to work on the drive train.also having trans specialties build me a nos specific torque conv. for my motor my n/a 9" conv. is set at 6200-6300 way to loose for nos i would think jeff

[zipper06]

Hey Jeff,

i do like the look of the un-even stack set up. jeff

There's actually a reason for the uneven stacks on a big block. The short stacks on 3,7,2,6. Early on with a lot of research, in the late 60's and early 70's on the dyno they figured out if they run 21 1/2" and 18 1/2" stacks from the valve head, it totally smoothed out the torque curve from 3,000 to 5,000 rpm, where with same length stacks the torque curve was irratic and ran better with different size nozzles on those cylinders. That's why you see a lot of the old Crowers with a rubber hose between the bells and the stacks. The 3" stacks i have has that setup, but i talked to Kinsler and he said he would make me solid one piece alum stacks to any length that i want for $40.00 each, which is probably what i'll do. I don't know why i keep buying this B/BLK stuff unless one day in the back of my mind i'm thinking on building a B/BLK. I like them it's just that everything i've ran and have for the last 20yrs. is sm/blk.

Zip.

[Denndivo]

I agree with the race fuel enrichment with NOS on a methanol motor.
The fire is already cool enough with methanol that you want to add some heat with the NOS. The timing does not need as much NOS retard with methanol either. Of course- better to start with recommended for your app and back down from there.

Also, with my NOS plate setup under the Terminator, I used the fuel spray bar for a start primer. One very quick blip and the motor will start cold. Of course that's FUEL only no NOS!

[goldenj]

i just bought a terminator last night.i see people have real good luck with them a buddy of mine bought everything fron killer rons used for 2 weekends and went back to gas carb.he's retired and says he old and just didn't want to fuel up after every pass.i don't think he gave it an honest go to really make it work for him but good for me i saved $900 and it's basically new.i really want to try the nos thing.do you guys have a person or company that you deal with thats willing to work with a nos newby like me?. and i always forget to ask if anybody has seen a study if the hat/tunnel ram set up produces more power than a terminator on a single plane manifold i really only ask because i love to learn thanks

[hammertime]

Nitrous Express is a good company to deal with on the nitrous.

Shoot me a pm if you need any help, hope it has a 0 1/2 pump will make things much easier.

[scooby389b]

You will not be dissapointed in the terminator..tune is fairly easy to hit on that combo.Also NX has a very nice alky kit and works real well.True gas will pick up a little more but I prefer to use alky/alky for simplicity reasons.

[goldenj]

i'm going to try the terminator i almost traded for a hat set up but i think i'll be fast with the terminator. i can throw a hat on later to gauge the difference. thanks everybody for all your help.

[nofear57]

My methanol injected 434 sbc altered has a enderle hat and tunnel ram. I added a single nitrous line through the tunnel ram with a 100hp shot of nitrous and just upped the pill size. I hit the nitrous about 300ft out and I felt the nitrous hit and it seemed to pull not to bad but than about the 1000ft mark it started to "pop" out the exhaust,so I let off. The spark plugs looked perfect after but I think it was leaning out. I only gained 1-1/2 tenths on my time. I wanted to try it again so I upped the pill size a little and it "popped" again but not as bad. I left the timing alone but maybe should have retarded it a couple degrees from the start. This was just an experiment I was trying. Maybe this year I'll add a bar with fuel. Should I add race gas or methanol? Any feed back would be appreciated.