Parents kill themselves and their children. [Archive]

Scooterz

01-28-2009, 10:21 AM

Damn that is tradgic!! Where the hell are peoples faith??? This kills me!! My faith can't be my JOB or INCOME... Man, I can understand pain & pressure. but come on... how about some faith in GOD??? If we count on the WORLD to make us satisfied, we will get EXACTLY what it has to offer-
letdowns, imperfections, "worldly advice", WORLDLY OUTCOMES. Sorry gentlemen... this strikes a nerve for me. We have to walk & trust in God... depend on him & have faith. I had a buddy who killed himself after high-school & i watched what it did to his whole family after... what a selfish COP OUT. There is nothing that God cannot handle... even a lost job. Those kids had to DIE because of one man's complete lack of faith... how selfish is that!!?? So many people would have helped them. Scooter

dgordner

01-28-2009, 02:16 PM

I to had a friend that took his life and watched it destroy the family, children in particular. He was a teaching peer of mine. We were both High school wrestling coaches for years together so it was a devistation to me. I know that God believes that I can handle anything he sends in my direction, I just wish he didn't trust me so much!!!

bjuice

01-28-2009, 03:17 PM

i read the story from a few different sources today. One source stated that the Wife had planned the Murder suicide Plot and the Husband carried it out. i am sure it will come out how it unfolded.

Also its Good to hear you guys Mention the Holy One. We don't see much of this much these days.
I am not a real religious Guy ( church Thing) but i am a Believer in the Son.

As a moderator i try to stay neutral in many conversations when it invloves politics and religion..with that said i have No problems voicing My beliefs and respecting the beliefs of others even if it doesn't align with my personal beliefs.
Isn't that the Christian Way ?..Non-Judgemental ?,,its a tough thing to live by I know 1st hand..but nothing in my life worth keeping ever came easy.

Brian

Scooterz

01-28-2009, 03:35 PM

Juice,

You & I are not so different on that subject. I like to know about the Bible, but I am not so interested in what some Chruches have to say... as they ran & developed by men. A thief on a cross went to heaven in one day when Jesus was here... people spend a lifetime in chruch trying to get there... it is what is in your heart... if it were my works that depended on me going to heaven, I would have a first class ticket to hell. I understand your position as a Moderator too. And yes, I think we are called not to judge or condemn others. That is a TALL order for me, but i try. Thank God he is forgiving. Scooter

mopar1968

01-28-2009, 04:11 PM

It's a sad day when this happen's, What can you say?

'' JUST MY TWO CENT'S WORTH''

kwkracing

01-28-2009, 06:26 PM

Very sad! Two days ago my girlfriends step father shot his son, age 24, (her only brother) and grandfather age 90 and then himself. Its so crazy how people can do things like this.

signsbyesa

01-28-2009, 07:05 PM

very sad, I don't know what is happening, this is spreading all over,
just last wk here in tx a man shot his son, then his dad, then himself,
he was divorced, that was 3 generations gone. there was a man on
Coast to Coast talking about the biblical outlook and he said, "expect
more of these tragic events, we live in hell and the devils time is
short lived", i hope demons don't enter any of my family or friends,
if you don't believe in demons controling your thoughts, read about
the "son of sam" killings, the bible in revelations mentions of animals
posessed and I do think if a dog spoke to you, you would go nuts
godspeed to all family suffering, amen :(

kwkracing

01-28-2009, 08:05 PM

signsbyesa...
That was my gf's stepdad, brother and grandfather in san antonio you are talking about, it happened 2 days ago.

Its crazy i get on racingjunk and someone metions this.

outlaw256

01-29-2009, 02:09 AM

i know most of you believe in god and for that i admire and respect you, but when this kind of thing happens seems everyone says lean to god he will help you thru these times, but if god is a just god how in the hell could he let something like this happen. kids killed by their parents! come on i cant believe a god would let this happen.why involve kids in a war between good and evil.they are the only ones who dont deserve to be caught in he middle of this kinda of crap.when people say its the work of the devil makes me wonder why god dont so to say put his foot down when it comes to kids. im a old mean worn out biker and i really do cry when i see this kinda of things happenening to kids. they will never, never get to be just kids, laughing playing anythings kids do. i get angry when i see this stuff, but who do i take it out on, the parents? their dead.so i yell at god " if you want me to believe show me your compassion and spare the children". and right now im angry

signsbyesa

01-29-2009, 04:11 AM

kwkracing, my prayers for her family godspeed, it's tragic cause they
said he was a good man. :(
outlaw, i feel the same, i pray everyday for; children that are
abandon, hungry, abused, left alone, crippled, they should only
know how to have fun and be happy and make us smile.
its tough to hear and see all this demonic killings that happen and
wonder why? i also thought there is no god to let this happen
especialy to kids, but as i read the bible over and over, there was
an explanation. We are in hell, only in hell can all these terrible things
happen, the devil has full control and god will not interfear, our faith
is being tested as that when jesus was nailed, god did not interfear.
its tough, prayers help but poeple think we are all going to heaven,
the answer is in our fathers prayer, "thy kingdom come, thy will be
done on earth as it is in heaven", heaven will be here, and all who
had faith will be rewarded. i don't have all the answers, i just try
and make sense of it, cause it is bad when adults kill each other,
but when they harm innocent children, that is like touching gods eye.
keep the faith outlaw, for we are brothers and sisters and we need
to look out for each other, i had wonder why god let my father
suffer badly and died of cancer, he is not suffering anymore, amen :(
sorry if i offended anyone, my brothers and sisters

suicidebomb

01-29-2009, 05:50 AM

kwkracing, sorry to hear of you and your girlfriends tragic loss. Our thoughts and prayers go out for you, and for everyone that has lost loved ones,tragically or otherwise.

My wife is a smart lady, and whenever I get upset over things like this, she says "Keep the faith baby. God never burdens us, with more than we can bear. Everything happens for a reason, and it's not our place to judge God, but his place, to judge us". I firmly believe that there is a special place in HELL, for people who mistreat children, and animals.

spib

01-29-2009, 08:04 AM

Dark, Cold and Evil

A prestigious university professor challenged his students with this question: "Did God create everything that exists?"

A student bravely replied "Yes, He did!" "God created everything?" the professor asked. "Yes sir," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said to the professor, "Can I ask you a question?" "Of course," replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"

The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat." Everybody is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.

The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, evil is a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exists just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

You may have heard of this student...

The young man's name--Albert Einstein.

signsbyesa

01-29-2009, 08:25 AM

man spib, i applaud you, that was awesome my friend :wink: :wink:
i also pray for the families that have suffered tragedy, all their
lifes have changed and is headed in a different path, things are
never the same especialy when it is a child, godspeed 8)

suicidebomb

01-29-2009, 08:49 AM

WOW, What a great story :!: :!: Thanks spib

srwilson8074

01-29-2009, 09:48 AM

I can't help feel for all the families that are going through their loss right now. Its a shame we base our lives on such material things that it could lead some one to commit murder to their FAMILY. I love all my toys and tools and such but if it comes down to loosing it someone out there is gonna be happy because I could not take any of my childrens lives over that. I will remember the passed in my prayers tonight. :(

Harbone

01-29-2009, 09:57 AM

I like your wifes logic suicidebomb. My wifes is very similiar. Neither of us are church going people. I spent my younger years having the Catholic way forced down my throat by my step-dad. A lot of things have happened in our lives over the years that have made us ask "why?". But her view is great, she does not believe that we have to step through the doors of a church for god to hear us. I dont believe that I have to give 10% of my income for god to hear us. But her faith is strong and after her dealing with the effects of Multiple Sclerosis for 10 years she is a person that has had a lot of conversations with god, believe me. My father commited suicide when I was 4 years old. I dont care how tough life is that is never the way out. All suicide means is a permanent solution to a short term problem...
The part that pisses me off about that whole story is the taking of the childrens lives, how selfish can a person be?

Scooterz

01-29-2009, 11:14 AM

Great posts everyone... good story Spib. I love when those "professors" get proven wrong. They cram crap our childrens heads like God does not exist, or that we came from evolution of apes... complete crap.

The more I read everyones posts about God & Spirituality, the more alike we seem. Not only that, but how we all seem to be alike in other areas too. I too think there is a reason for everything that happens... this is why we all should try to stick together.

Outlaw: I hear you brother. I know your personality... old biker dude. Something about you is pretty cool... I almost know what you look like & have a few friends like you. It is ok that you feel the way you do. By what you said, I think you are a believer through & through. You are mad to hear these things as you should be... God is there, trust me. It is just like signsbysea said... damn free will & the devil is the prince of this earth we belong to. I can tell you some DEVINE things have happend to me through God... with no other explanations... I should be dead right now... but by the grace of God... I am here talking to you guys. Keep the faith Outlaw & stay awnry. Scooter

signsbyesa

01-29-2009, 07:11 PM

there is a great old movie about suicide that realy makes you think
that just being alive and having god is the best. movie has john garfield,
its called "between two worlds", b/w and if you lilke the twilight zone
this movie is good. it deals with a couple who commit suicide and
from there it starts and it has a great ending, oh and a pretty good
idea of what happens to us after we die. :wink:

robsbird

02-02-2009, 06:51 PM

:o outlaw, I hear you speeking foolishly, and Im not thinking your are somehow cool. I feel sorry for you. this was a terrible tragity and God didn,t do it. Do you get as pissed off when you hear about a mom who kill her baby with the help of a doctor. no you excuse that as her right somehow. I use to live without God and I thought just like you. :arrow: this did not cost you anything.and bjuice thank you, I think you are cool.I belong to another race sight and I sometimes think there anti-Christ. you mention God or Christ and you are out. But the scripture said mens harts would be failing them from fear of those things to come. and this is a sad example of that. Rob

Scooterz

02-03-2009, 09:59 AM

Well Rob, if I ever heard someone judge on little/no knowledge of somebodys past (outlaw) I would say you fit the bill... way to be open minded & understanding of others who don't know what you & I do... NOT. I started out my walk just like Outlaw... I did not understand everything either... still don't. But it was this very thing that brought me to the Lord. You say you are looked at as a chistian running a reputable buisness in your community??? what do you do to help others who are lost?? what do you do for the drug addict who has never known the lord??? what about the lonely who don't know him?? You sound "Holier than thou" to me... Outlaw is a good guy & he IS COOL in my opinion. Do you even know about his daily battles??? Did you know he has to take meds just to get out of bed everyday??? Try walking in somone elses shoes for a day before you JUDGE THEM mr. "Christain". What is God's second commandment?? does it say to put others down because of what they say or don't know??? GOOD JOB. If I ever need advice about how to be better than others, I will ask you. Otherwise, I will continue to hang out here with the cretians that are not good enough for you. In the mean time, I will pray that you have a little humility & tolerance for the less fortunate!! Did you ever consider people do not go to chruch & buy into christianity because of all the hipocracy Christians create??? Scooter

Harbone

02-03-2009, 10:08 AM

Rob,
I have no idea who you are but from your post I can tell you are the type of person that keeps me from attending any church of god! Forcing your religion down someones throat that does not want to hear it is not the word of the lord. get off your high horse son or someone from here will knock you off of it!

Scooterz

02-03-2009, 10:54 AM

Harb-

AMEN. You & I are not so different. I had the Catholic thing crammed down my throat for years too... to my knowledge, God has never condemned me for not going back. Anyways, I do not claim to know alot about being a Christian (still have alot to learn) but I can relate to guys like Outlaw... he is real... you get what you get w/ him. Who are we to come on here & JUDGE each other??? man, i got some "skeletons" in my past closet... who am I to say how God feels/thinks about somone else??

Rob: you come on here and take a shot @ my friend??? Good luck to you... you fit the profile of the people who go to churches I know. Dress up on Sunday & appear like your sh_t does not stink... better than others. God judges, not you.

robsbird

02-03-2009, 12:17 PM

8) its hard to even start with you guys. you just said I took a shot at you friend. (outlaw) well he took a shot at my God, and you Guys act like thats respectful. And rigs there was three men on a cross. a thief, a killer and an innocent man. one said If, you are the son of God then save youself and get us down from here.( he questioned God also) the thief said to the killer to shut up we deserve to be here but this man (jesus) has done nothing (the thief was in repentence) and then he turned to the christ and said remember me when. you fail to understand all of the account. Questioning God is the killer who questioned Christ and I am the thief that said shut up God did not do that. You want to run me down for defending the truth. and you are like the crowd that said crusify him. and any if you can live better than the best christian , tell us all about. And if you and a couple of these other Guys dont know the Bible how can you Judge me..Speek the word of God and not the word od rigsby You said I think we are called not to judge or condem others. thats taken out of text. and read Galations ch 5 verse 17-21 and say we are not to judge. I don,t know where you will spend eternity and I can not make that judgement. but if you throw a rock at God I can say wow to you. you friend and not your enemy. rob

Harbone

02-03-2009, 12:47 PM

robsbird,
You say Outlaw "took a shot at your god", your god? Do you have a hotline to heaven or something? If you read Outlaws post, all he is asking is why, he didnt condemn god. He just questions if there is a god how could he let something like that happen to children. I am sure he is not the only person to ask that question. I do believe in a god, he's not your god, he's not my god, he is just god. I dont have to go to church to believe that. I may not believe he is almighty, if he was the world would be a better place and maybe, just maybe these children may have lived to see their senior years. So dont come here to preach, save that for sunday...

Chris

robsbird

02-03-2009, 01:43 PM

:shock: a god and lets see you come on here preaching a god. Yes you are preaching, just from your own bible. now why is this so offensive to you big bad boys. Im not offended, Im not mad, im not cursing. It obivous you believe in something. read in 1 John c3-v2, this is not to hard. I think lots of people have the goofy god. thats the god of goofy. And yes he is my God and the God of every believer. He is not a god, sorry. and yes outlaw quote: if God is a just God how in the h--- could he let something like this happen. You side with outlaw and I will side with my God. not your enemy- and nowhere in the word of God does he sey preach only on sunday, but he said to go into the hedgerows and biways and compell them to come in.this is spoken to all of us who believe. again im not your enemy. he also said because I was persecuted you shall be persecuted also. I have only spoke the truth. rob

Scooterz

02-03-2009, 03:08 PM

Rob,

I am trying to be objective... Outlaw is not taking a shot at God. The thief on the cross went to heaven in a matter of one day after repenting... & just what kind of life did the thief live prior to that day??? He was no saint.... yet Jesus took him to Heaven that day. We are not saints... we are not perfect, we do not know every verse in the bible, some of us have some pretty ugly pasts I am sure. God loves every one of us... Outlaw included. The bible also talks about how God loves the poor, the lonely, confused, sick... etc... Outlaw was emotional about children having to die this way. He wanted to know a legitimate question that was answered by many. I don't think he intended on not honoring God... who are we to say what God thinks about anyone??? After all, I am happy to let God do the judging. You seem to know your Bible... so you should know of a verse somewhere saying "there is no condemnation in Christ"... heard of that one??

BTW- I have read alot of Galations 5... & all the talk about living in the spirt & the flesh, & the list of deadly things that keep us from honoring God... but I do not push my intirpritation of this on anyone here. Make no mistake, your personal interpritation can prevent you from helping & doing Gods witness. What have you done to help Outlaw come closer to God??? Rob... you just Bible-Thumped Him!!! Is that what Outlaw wants to hear right now? Rigsby

robsbird

02-03-2009, 03:52 PM

I appreciate and respect anyones ideals and im not trying to be pushy. this is to Outlaw (here is hope we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.)if its ok with outlaw I would like to pm him what God said about the question why. it in the book of Jobe. rigsby, I promiss Im not trying to be insulting to you or anyone. the scripture is not for private interpitation of a man. I think its is basicly easy to understand. galations 5 17-21 said if we practice these things we will not inherit the kingdom of God. I did not wright it I just believe it. Now in 1st john it said if we confess our sins he is just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. now im glad it said all. im not your enemy rob. and I never said God did not love anyone, the cross proves that. rigsby as brotherly and friendly as possible would you please explain in galation 5 17-21 where it said anything about honoring God. pleas and Im not your enemy man. maby we can help outlaw.

Harbone

02-03-2009, 04:08 PM

Rigsby,
To hear you say "bible thumper" tells me you know the difference in who believes and who tries to force their beliefs. We have the ability to worship in each of our own ways. I don't need people like robsbird telling me how to do it. You know that difference Rigsby and in my opinion makes you a man of honor and trust. I really doubt Outlaw is looking for his help either...

Thanks
Chris

Scooterz

02-03-2009, 04:45 PM

Chris thank you for your comments. I did not come to know God better by honoring him... or by being a great christain... I came to know him by being at ground zero. When there seemed like no hope, I turned to him. Anyways, I am far from perfect & God helped me a great deal... not by going to Chruch and listening to the drones there... not by the hypocracy of the many men that developed the many different chruches, & not by other people pushing God on me, I found him myself & he has heard me. Thanks again.

Rob, What i was reffering to in Galations was the list of vices & virtues. 5:19 outlines the many acts of sin... which is NOT honoring God. Believe me, I believe in the fruit of the spirit, but the topic was about a family who all died w/ innocent childeren. Outlaw voiced his frustration... confused about God, he said how could this happen??? I too have said these words to God. I get the feeling that no one is going to push God, the Bible, or Chruch on him right now. Outlaw probably does not take orders from too many people.... nor does he probably want other beliefs to judge him. He is an old Biker... rough around the edges... does not take orders.... anyways, I was gently telling him that he reminds me of a few old friends of the like. He will come to God on his own & on his terms. If I can help, great. I will not force him to listen. I believe he has a good heart... I have watched his posts & i like him. God has a plan for him. No hard feelings. Spirituality brings up some passonate conversations... we must be careful. Look at all the wars it creates... JMO

robsbird

02-03-2009, 06:49 PM

Every good and perfect gift comes from above so we know from that scripture that God had nothing to do with that. The man that did that to his family had no hope. His Hope was not in Jesus Christ. I am glad tht my hope is in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 6 says in verse 10 to finally my brethren,be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities against powers,against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We have to wear the armor of God to live in this world. God is our refuge and fortress and in Him I will put my trust. The Bible is the Word of God. It is His truth weather we believe it or not. We have to pray for each other and encourage each other. The Word is our encourger! His truth will set us free. Calling each other names like bible thumper is not truth. Bible thumper. No you do not have to go to church to be a Christian but if you are a christian you will want to go to Gods house. If you are going to a church that is judgemental find a church that you do like where you can go and be encourged. As we see the final days on this earth either by rapture or by our body dying we need to be ready to meet the God. Noone will be by your side on that day. You will stand in front of God all alone and will you say I deserve to be here or will you fall on your face and say thank you Jesus for your blood and your sacrifice! you have made several judgemental statement about the church and Gods people. how many people have you drug down by your statements.im not your enemy__ and it sounds like you have started your church here and recruited you first drone in chris

Harbone

02-04-2009, 04:28 AM

WOW, now I am Rigsby's drone, geez. I think Rigsby has a little more faith in god than I do, I am far from his drone but he and I have the same attitude about God. Now you on the other hand are the main reason
I stay away from church's, I don't need to step into a place, made by man, to have god hear my words. Also in case you did'nt know the bible is a book written by men, not god. If you spend your whole life hoping and praying you make it to the pearly gates thats your deal. I on the other hand am trying to live life to the fullest why I am here. There are no guarantees that there is a heaven besides what was written in a book, by men, centuries ago and tailored over the years by men to make people like you into drones. While you are in church on sunday, I am at the track or out on a long ride in the country with my wife enjoying what god has given us here on earth. Not sitting in a pew listening to another man preach the word of god. I am nobodies drone robsbird, but I do see a lot of drone in you...

Chris

suicidebomb

02-04-2009, 05:33 AM

Ok, guys, lets all go to our happy place..... :) PEACE

Harbone

02-04-2009, 06:04 AM

Sorry suicidebomb,
I have a habit of letting bible-thumpers that try and push their "holier than you" way of life down people throats get under my skin.

I apologize if I offended anyone but he needs to get off the stack of bibles he's standing on.

Chris

suicidebomb

02-04-2009, 09:25 AM

No need to apologize to me my friend.
No need whatsoever.

Scooterz

02-04-2009, 10:51 AM

Rob,

1. The topic here was about a family who died a tragic death, from what I believe was a complete lack of faith (as I noted earlier).

2. The question was raised by Outlaw, how could this happen & what was God's role in all of this?? many answered that question in thier own way.

3. You judged Outlaw... I don't care how you sugar-coat it... you judged him. Moreover, you started throwing Bible verses at him & others to justify your so called "Christain" feed back. You went on to say how you were veiwed as a respected Christain in your community... etc...

4. I called you on your PERSONAL RIGHTEOUSNESS... in other words, practice what you preach. Don't come on here judging Outlaw... try walking a mile in his shoes... you don't know what he believes in or what he has been through. Harbone called you out too... maybe you should look at what you said.

5. You then got on Harbone66 with your quotes & beliefs. You went on to call God "Your God"... incenuating we don't know about the Bible & do not follow it & that you most certainly do. So let me ask you Rob.... IS THIS YOUR WAY OF BRING PEOPLE TO GOD??? Good luck.

6. Bottom line: you can quote your verses all day long... as anyone could... we can all say we are "revered & honored Christains" in our community.... blah blah blah.... Make no mistake, when the Rapture comes, GOD WILL JUDGE OUR HEARTS... I do not come here to tell everyone what I know.... I come here to find out what I DO NOT know. I do not come here to be a arm-chair quaterback either. Rob, some people do not come to know the lord by having other people force scipture on them or use messages that many chruches use to force guilt & "Hollier than Thou" attitudes.... it simply pushes them farther out. Case & point: David Kuresh from TX quoted all kinds of scipture... while he molested children & burnt them to death... he was only a confused man. God knows your heart & mine... & everyone elses too. These are my friends here- I got thier backs. They are not perfect, as i am not. They will come to know God in thier own way. If I can help, great. If not, they are still my friends.