Beware of T&L engines

[crossbreed]

It took a long time to get the motor 2 months then it took 4 more month and 40 phone calls to get the flex plate. then the car only made it 50miles before it poped a headgasket it was never run hot or sprayed they told me I had to pull out the motor for free and send it to them at a cost of 150.00 for me to pay. and if I took in down it would void the warr. now I own a shop and this motor was got for a cust. of mine they told me it would take 5 weeks to get the motor back. so I was thinking some thing did not add up. so I tore it down my self to see what happend. and what I found was shocking. but before I tell you what I found. this is what I ordered a 347 all forged after market block and heads. set up for NOS.
now this is what I found the headgasket poped because the right head was only torked to 35 lb. left side to 80 lb. the cam in it was turned on a 108 center not a 112 center like I ordered. and it has a stock block.
so I called them and told them they needed to make it right and they told me that is your baby now. and hung up the phone.
so if I was you I would not buy one of these engines.

sorry for the rant but just want to worn you hard working people like me so they don't get scamed like me. thanks for your time

[mopar1968]

:x Thanks for letting folks on here know about this.

[Tod74]

It might be my baby...but it would be their lawsuit.

seriously. Waranty or not, the factory block wasn't what you paid for so I would not let it go.

[dparker]

Whats their full business name and address?

[topsportsman1]

http://www.tandlengines.com/

Looks like another one bit by the ebay engine builders

You pay for what you get,its just that simple

Your not the 1st one to come here and complain about T&L and probaly won't be the last.

People need to do their internet searches and ask questions about reputable engine builders 1st before you part with your hard earned money,then come and complain

But thats human nature to buy cheap knock offs and find out its not really what you thought you purchased,
In this world there is ALOT of bait and switch going on,get every thing in writing,such as contracts and datelines of the build.

[crossbreed]

http://www.tandlengines.com/

Looks like another one bit by the ebay engine builders

You pay for what you get,its just that simple

Your not the 1st one to come here and complain about T&L and probaly won't be the last.

People need to do their internet searches and ask questions about reputable engine builders 1st before you part with your hard earned money,then come and complain

But thats human nature to buy cheap knock offs and find out its not really what you thought you purchased,
In this world there is ALOT of bait and switch going on,get every thing in writing,such as contracts and datelines of the build.

I under staind what you are saying but if 9,000 is cheap for a sbf then I'm a broke man. and I just posted it here so others don't make the same choices I did, and for the fact they have there banner on this site.
as far as the other man and the hole don't let it go. It's not going anywhere but to court.

[jayss10]

as usaul a racingjunk crewman steps in to say ,you should have looked better ,if racingjunk knows theres a problem why are they a banner add on here then........maybe just maybe some people feel that this site wouldnt let someone run adds knowing that they are a problem,as i see it this use to be a site for the small guy,ooh but now ,seems it is for the big guys or who ever pays to get banner adds ......good luck even being a site in 2 years this hole is going down and going down fast........mark my words ........everyone on heres knows it has changed ,and sees there are less and lesss private adds any more .......us private guys were where it started....thats my 2 cents worth...i know you will have a comeback like ,we still are for the reg. guy, but please, all us small guys know better.....

[novabbc]

Jay,I am with you there!

[jdracecars]

I hear ya screaming for justice jayss10 and know how it feels to get even madder when the R.J. crew steps in and adds salt to the wound!! I've been hammering them about this guy in South Jersey for years now but he's still on here advertising. We even posted a newspaper article where he was caught red handed stealing and convicted but guess whose still posting on here??

I completely understand your frustration!! :roll:

[crossbreed]

it's just sad how a place indorses a con artist!

[topsportsman1]

it's just sad how a place indorses a con artist!

We all see that,your seller info speaks volumes around here
http://www.racingjunk.com/post/1372805/custom-4-door-dually-f-t.html

Your just another BASIC member here that we all are carrying

How long should a site remain FREE? A lifetime?

[topsportsman1]

I hear ya screaming for justice jayss10 and know how it feels to get even madder when the R.J. crew steps in and adds salt to the wound!! I've been hammering them about this guy in South Jersey for years now but he's still on here advertising. We even posted a newspaper article where he was caught red handed stealing and convicted but guess whose still posting on here??

I completely understand your frustration!! :roll:

Your just another one thats posting in 3rd person,atleast I don't make up more fictishous names to keep posting on a thread and talking to myself,nice going moron :roll:

All you want to do is talk shit about Ralphy,if you got any proof at all you'd take him to court,but we all know you can't do that,heck you probaly couldn't afford the wheels on any car he sells,you just hide behing the computer and keep making names up and making storys up,LOL
Maybe you can bring your MOMS name in and tell us that story again :P

[topsportsman1]

http://www.tandlengines.com/

Looks like another one bit by the ebay engine builders

You pay for what you get,its just that simple

Your not the 1st one to come here and complain about T&L and probaly won't be the last.

People need to do their internet searches and ask questions about reputable engine builders 1st before you part with your hard earned money,then come and complain

But thats human nature to buy cheap knock offs and find out its not really what you thought you purchased,
In this world there is ALOT of bait and switch going on,get every thing in writing,such as contracts and datelines of the build.

I under staind what you are saying but if 9,000 is cheap for a sbf then I'm a broke man. and I just posted it here so others don't make the same choices I did, and for the fact they have there banner on this site.
as far as the other man and the hole don't let it go. It's not going anywhere but to court.

Thanks for joining up here in the forum and giving us a heads up.

[topsportsman1]

as usaul a racingjunk crewman steps in to say ,you should have looked better ,if racingjunk knows theres a problem why are they a banner add on here then........maybe just maybe some people feel that this site wouldnt let someone run adds knowing that they are a problem,as i see it this use to be a site for the small guy,ooh but now ,seems it is for the big guys or who ever pays to get banner adds ......good luck even being a site in 2 years this hole is going down and going down fast........mark my words ........everyone on heres knows it has changed ,and sees there are less and lesss private adds any more .......us private guys were where it started....thats my 2 cents worth...i know you will have a comeback like ,we still are for the reg. guy, but please, all us small guys know better.....

Hey Jay

If you got a problem with the seller and have been stung by him,send all the proper paper work into RJ,and I am talking a judgement from the court and I'm sure RJ will do some thing about it.

And as far as crossbread,don't come here crying,take them to court and do like I just said,or is it that EBAY won't do nothing

$9,000 what is it gold plated 347? Tell us more on what you ordered.You got a parts list on what you got?If so post it.

[luckylloyd]

It took a long time to get the motor 2 months then it took 4 more month and 40 phone calls to get the flex plate. then the car only made it 50miles before it poped a headgasket it was never run hot or sprayed they told me I had to pull out the motor for free and send it to them at a cost of 150.00 for me to pay. and if I took in down it would void the warr. now I own a shop and this motor was got for a cust. of mine they told me it would take 5 weeks to get the motor back. so I was thinking some thing did not add up. so I tore it down my self to see what happend. and what I found was shocking. but before I tell you what I found. this is what I ordered a 347 all forged after market block and heads. set up for NOS.
now this is what I found the headgasket poped because the right head was only torked to 35 lb. left side to 80 lb. the cam in it was turned on a 108 center not a 112 center like I ordered. and it has a stock block.
so I called them and told them they needed to make it right and they told me that is your baby now. and hung up the phone.
so if I was you I would not buy one of these engines.

sorry for the rant but just want to worn you hard working people like me so they don't get scamed like me. thanks for your time


Dear readers,
What you have been reading is quite an embellished tale. Dwayne is flat out lying on several accounts in this story filled with exaggeration.
What Dwayne in fact paid for is a 347 Stroker engine with a Fel-Pro head gasket upgrade, an ARP Head Stud upgrade, and an all forged internals upgrade. At no point in time did he ask for nor purchase an aftermarket Dart block.

When Dwayne's engine was delivered(4 weeks after purchase) he installed and then had issues with his engine. Now, I will not speculate as to whether he did or didn't inject Nitrous Oxide into the engine but I will however confirm the engine was in sound mechanical condition when it left our facility.

While in the assembly room, each engine is carefully built through a list of checks and balances. On Dwayne's build sheet he will notice a figure of 70 lb ft of torque which was applied to his cylinder head studs, re-checked and then signed off by one of our assemblers.

On the Dyno, Dwayne's engine was tested while our operator took note of the Oil Psi, the Water Temperature, the Oil Temperature,oxygen sensor readings etc. At no point in time did Dwayne's engine show any type of issues at all. In case you aren't aware, an engine dyno places full load on the engine throughout the rpm range; in Dwayne's case from 3,300RPM until 6,000RPM. If the cylinder head were in fact incorrectly installed and not torqued, it certainly would have been evident on the engine dyno while full load was placed on the engine. More importantly, when we finish testing an engine combination, we drain the engine of both oil and coolant. If any head gasket issue had been present we certainly would have noticed the contamination in the oil. The fact is the engine again, was mechanically sound when it left our facility.

In regards to Dwayne's complaint about the wrong camshaft being used with the engine, T&L Engine Development has no record indicating any change or request for a different camshaft design for his combination. T&L will make the necessary adjustments to the combination depending on the application however through careful research and development we have found our camshaft design works flawlessly with the 347 combination Dwayne purchased.

Lastly, Dwayne has complained about the lack of a warranty and the fact that T&L Has informed him that the engine is "His Baby". Rightfully so, we told Dwayne he in fact is now responsible for the engine as he specifically went against our words to him and tore down the engine. When Dwayne phoned the shop, he spoke with Eric in tech support. At that point in time Eric specifically stated to Dwayne not to tear the engine down, but to send it back to our facility (with our freight discount) and we would warranty the engine. We then told him it would take approximately one week turn around time and then we would send him the engine back promptly. Well, apparently this was not good enough for Dwayne and he made his bed now, he will sleep in it. T&L has NO problem with warrantying an issue that occurs with the engine that was not operator error however, when you blatantly go against our reasonable policy of sending it back, you ultimately void your warranty.

In this world there is ALOT of bait and switch going on,get every thing in writing,such as contracts and datelines of the build.
Absolutely spot on! Which is why T&L Engine Development has files and documents citing such information such as Dwaynes Invoice for his engine.

Below is a copy of the invoice for Dwayne. As you will note, there is no mention of a Dart block, Nor a mention of $9000.00 If he in fact bought a $9000.00 engine from us, he owes us money.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5396/dwaynepf5.jpg

Thanks for joining up here in the forum and giving us a heads up. As for the so called Racing Junk Representative who is thanking people for the heads up, a friendly, non pugnacious "Hey T&L what happened with this guy" would have been graciously welcomed as oppose to slander. We truly appreciate all of our loyal customers and the people who don't sully a good name with nonsense.

[Scorpion1110]

Lloyd's post is very well written and professional.

Now Forum readers, go to www.google.com then type in T&L engines. Their website is TandLengines-you can google that but should also google with the ampersand (&).

You will indeed find commentary and you can evaluate the business by not only their advertising and representations but also by the word of mouth of their customers.

Its all there gentlemen, if you want to make the effort to read, figure it out and formulate an opinion.

Later, Scorp

[bjuice]

It took a long time to get the motor 2 months then it took 4 more month and 40 phone calls to get the flex plate. then the car only made it 50miles before it poped a headgasket it was never run hot or sprayed they told me I had to pull out the motor for free and send it to them at a cost of 150.00 for me to pay. and if I took in down it would void the warr. now I own a shop and this motor was got for a cust. of mine they told me it would take 5 weeks to get the motor back. so I was thinking some thing did not add up. so I tore it down my self to see what happend. and what I found was shocking. but before I tell you what I found. this is what I ordered a 347 all forged after market block and heads. set up for NOS.
now this is what I found the headgasket poped because the right head was only torked to 35 lb. left side to 80 lb. the cam in it was turned on a 108 center not a 112 center like I ordered. and it has a stock block.
so I called them and told them they needed to make it right and they told me that is your baby now. and hung up the phone.
so if I was you I would not buy one of these engines.

sorry for the rant but just want to worn you hard working people like me so they don't get scamed like me. thanks for your time


Dear readers,
What you have been reading is quite an embellished tale. Dwayne is flat out lying on several accounts in this story filled with exaggeration.
What Dwayne in fact paid for is a 347 Stroker engine with a Fel-Pro head gasket upgrade, an ARP Head Stud upgrade, and an all forged internals upgrade. At no point in time did he ask for nor purchase an aftermarket Dart block.

When Dwayne's engine was delivered(4 weeks after purchase) he installed and then had issues with his engine. Now, I will not speculate as to whether he did or didn't inject Nitrous Oxide into the engine but I will however confirm the engine was in sound mechanical condition when it left our facility.

While in the assembly room, each engine is carefully built through a list of checks and balances. On Dwayne's build sheet he will notice a figure of 70 lb ft of torque which was applied to his cylinder head studs, re-checked and then signed off by one of our assemblers.

On the Dyno, Dwayne's engine was tested while our operator took note of the Oil Psi, the Water Temperature, the Oil Temperature,oxygen sensor readings etc. At no point in time did Dwayne's engine show any type of issues at all. In case you aren't aware, an engine dyno places full load on the engine throughout the rpm range; in Dwayne's case from 3,300RPM until 6,000RPM. If the cylinder head were in fact incorrectly installed and not torqued, it certainly would have been evident on the engine dyno while full load was placed on the engine. More importantly, when we finish testing an engine combination, we drain the engine of both oil and coolant. If any head gasket issue had been present we certainly would have noticed the contamination in the oil. The fact is the engine again, was mechanically sound when it left our facility.

In regards to Dwayne's complaint about the wrong camshaft being used with the engine, T&L Engine Development has no record indicating any change or request for a different camshaft design for his combination. T&L will make the necessary adjustments to the combination depending on the application however through careful research and development we have found our camshaft design works flawlessly with the 347 combination Dwayne purchased.

Lastly, Dwayne has complained about the lack of a warranty and the fact that T&L Has informed him that the engine is "His Baby". Rightfully so, we told Dwayne he in fact is now responsible for the engine as he specifically went against our words to him and tore down the engine. When Dwayne phoned the shop, he spoke with Eric in tech support. At that point in time Eric specifically stated to Dwayne not to tear the engine down, but to send it back to our facility (with our freight discount) and we would warranty the engine. We then told him it would take approximately one week turn around time and then we would send him the engine back promptly. Well, apparently this was not good enough for Dwayne and he made his bed now, he will sleep in it. T&L has NO problem with warrantying an issue that occurs with the engine that was not operator error however, when you blatantly go against our reasonable policy of sending it back, you ultimately void your warranty.

In this world there is ALOT of bait and switch going on,get every thing in writing,such as contracts and datelines of the build.
Absolutely spot on! Which is why T&L Engine Development has files and documents citing such information such as Dwaynes Invoice for his engine.

Below is a copy of the invoice for Dwayne. As you will note, there is no mention of a Dart block, Nor a mention of $9000.00 If he in fact bought a $9000.00 engine from us, he owes us money.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5396/dwaynepf5.jpg

Thanks for joining up here in the forum and giving us a heads up. As for the so called Racing Junk Representative who is thanking people for the heads up, a friendly, non pugnacious "Hey T&L what happened with this guy" would have been graciously welcomed as oppose to slander. We truly appreciate all of our loyal customers and the people who don't sully a good name with nonsense.

Well Stated MR. Luckylloyd ?

Well Dwayne (cross breed)... Do you have an invoice you would like to show us ? based what you are telling us in your 1st post your invoice should be much different ... i must say T@L has posted a pretty darn good defense to your claim...

lets see if i am attacked as a RJ crew henchman for making this post. :roll:

ps:
Topsportsman: i knew thar weren't no Gold in them thar hills... :shock:

[Tod74]

rofl....somebody looks like an idiot now. :D

[crossbreed]

well I have not been on line and I do have a invoice and it's not that one and it's a hell of a lot more money and parts and as soon as I can I'll get to a scaner and I'll put it up! look all over the net there are more and more people with problems with these engines. just take the time to look as far as me spraying the motor the gas ain't even on the car yet! kind of hard to spray something that ain't there. now I geuss your going to say the fly wheel came on the motor Right. or did it infact come much much later after me calling over 10 times. ya'll are crooks and you know it
let me see if I can't get to a scanner. you know its not hard to change a invoice on your own computer if your the one that made it in the first place. I'll stand behind what I have said and will not back down!!!!!!!

[Harbone]

looks like this may get interesting...

[lively]

scan the invoice and load it on here---the invoice does have item ### on it at the top[ if it does not match them some calls to the BBB would be important]---otherwise i think there is " alot" of lieing going on on one side or the other


i have read alot of negatives about this biulder but some good things also--i really think he is over his head and does not have enough GOOD help to run his business properly--so--he has started making alot of excuses to hold people off

but if you spent $9000.00 on a sbf you need your head examined--i have had fords for over 30 years and 9000.00 would buy you more then you can imagine in a great engine

my 2 cents worth
LIVELY

[luckylloyd]

Much to my surprise, Mr. Lewis is lying through his teeth yet again. I will take the time to present the facts as well as documents citing the truth one more time.

Mr.Lewis here has stated that it took an unacceptable "2 months to" receive his "9,000 engine".

Lets touch on the engine timeline shall we?


Well according to Paypal, Mr.Lewis paid his full amount of $4,097.00 Dollars on August 5th, 2008. Contrary to his statements, R&L Carriers picked up the engine in a crate on September 3rd, 2008 and delivered said engine promptly on September 4th, 2008 at 10.55 EST.
Im no mathemetician however, August 5th - September 4th is a far cry from 2 months. In fact, you might even say he exaggerated slightly for dramatic effect.
(Documents present below proving T&L's Statements.)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2920/paypalhp6.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paypalhp6.jpg)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/paypalhp6.jpg/1/w500.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img519/paypalhp6.jpg/1/)


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3318/rlpickupze6.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rlpickupze6.jpg)
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/rlpickupze6.jpg/1/w500.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img143/rlpickupze6.jpg/1/)


http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3848/rldeliveryhs5.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rldeliveryhs5.jpg)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/rldeliveryhs5.jpg/1/w500.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img519/rldeliveryhs5.jpg/1/)

Posted by Dwayne 16 Nov 2008 13:20
It took a long time to get the motor 2 months then it took 4 more month and 40 phone calls to get the flex plate. then the car only made it 50miles


Posted by Dwayne 21 Nov 2008 12:07,
now I geuss your going to say the fly wheel came on the motor Right. or did it infact come much much later after me calling over 10 times. ya'll are crooks and you know it


Well, thats quite a blatant exaggeration. I believe I will again take the high road and let the readers interpret a quotation from a very distinguished man.

No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar.
-Abraham Lincoln.

In closing,
I'd like to make note that if Dwayne's customer is in fact reading this please, feel free to contact T&L Engines with any questions you may have. We are more than happy to help you in any way possible however, we will not stand idly by while someone tries to sully our reputation. We however hold no ill will toward you. Have a great day.

[jayss10]

I NEVER GOT INVOLED IN THIS TO SAY WHEATHER 1 OR OTHER WAS GUILTY, I SIMPLY GOT INVOLVED TO SAY IF RACINGJUNK REP. ARE SAYING THEY KNOW OF A SELLER THAT IS LESS THAN HONEST THEY NEED TO PROTECT THE MEMBERS WHO TRUST RACINGJUNK NOT TO LIST THERE PRODUCTS, AND YOU SEEMED TO HAVE PROVED THAT YOU ARE HONEST IN THIS CASE,AND IM GLAD ,THERE ARE SO MANY FLY BY NITE ENGINE BUILDERS OUT THERE ,AND THE PRICE FOR THE ENGINE WAS A VERY FAIR PRICE,HOPFULLY YOU TO CAN WORK OUT SOMETHING GOOD FOR BOTH,JUST WANTED TO STATE MY POINT FOR EVEN SPEAKING UP.....JAY

[topsportsman1]

Jay
Who is the racing junk rep? I hope your not saying I am.

Brian and myself are here to help everyone and are not affilated with RJ like you think.We are CRJ members just like everyone else and have an opinion like everyone else.

Only thing we do here is keep the retards straight and help people along the way,meaning giving FREE advise,and help contacting people to come here and get things straight.

Maybe I come off here a little harsh some times,but you got to do what you got to do to get people to reply.

I think RJ has come along ways here,atleast in the forum section getting a grasp on some of the crooks here,and getting word out to people if they desire to come read the forum before a sale,but then again we get them coming here looking for answers after the sale alot.

This is just another part of Racing Junk thats FREE,LOL :P

Also
Llyod thanks for coming in here and clearing things up,you seem to be a stand up guy.

Some of my posts were pure sarcasum,but the truth prevailed.With the proof,thats what I like to see,people posting the truth and not posting bullshit,and only come here with "their" storys
I like to see both sides of the story.

Who's next?

[jayss10]

YES I 100% AGREE THE FORUM HAS HELPED ALOT ,I WAS JUST WANTING TO SAY PEOPLE THAT ARE MEMBERS WANT TO TRUST THE SITE TO HELP WATCH FOR BAD GUYS,SOMETIMES WE FEEL THEY ARENT ,IF YOUR NOT A RJ TEEM MEMBER IM SORRY, IM A STRAIGHT SHOOTER ALSO, I SEE YOUR ON TOP OF THINGS ALOT AND HAVE NEVER HAD A BEEF WITH YOU AND IT DID SURPRISE ME , MAYBE I TOOK IT THE WRONG WAY,BUT WE GOT TO REALIZE THAT MEMBERS WANT TO DO BUSS. WITH BUSS. ON RJ, AND IF THEY GET TAKEN BY A BANNER ADD BUSS. ON HERE AND A RJ TEAM MEMBER SEZ THAT HE KNEW THAT THEY WERE A PROBLEM ,THEN THATS GOING TO LOOK VERY BAD ON RJ, IM SORRY I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE NOT A RJ TEAM MEMBER ,THATS MY BAD,AND THIS TOPIC DID DO WHAT IT WAS MADE TO DO SHOW IF SOMEONE WAS A SCAMMER, THANK GOD HES NOT,AND SEEMS TO BE A HONEST GUY,LIKE I SAID SORRY TO IMPLY ON YOUR STATUS FOR RJ.......JAY

[bjuice]

well Said Tom !....and Jay its all good with me..i don't take nothing personal on the Net anymore... 8) if we can help you in any way u know where to find us..same goes for anyone else.


Brian

[fastted]

I did buss with t&l engine's about 1.5 ago on a 540 for my boat. My name is Ted from Ca and I thought I had a little prob but luckylloyd took care of me! He upgraded my block from a gen 5 to a dart big M along with other internal's in the motor and also will called me a 12qt oil pan that costed $500 +. I would do buss with him again! It's rare these day's to find a buss like t&l engines that stand behind there product's and customer's. Luckylloyd (t&l engine's) is a STRAIGHT UP BUSS.!!!!!!!! Thanx again t&l Ted Kirschner Rancho Cucamonga Ca.