DON'T BUY FRAM OIL FILTERS !!!!!!!!!!!

[superbadass532]

This is kind of a long story......... Anyway about three weeks ago I got my 67 Camaro finally finished. I had the car completely stripped and repainted. So it was my first time out at the drag strip. I pulled the car off the trailer drive it around the pits and pulled into the lanes for my first pass of the season,pulled up made my pass every thing was fine,made a second pass everything seemed fine, The third pass the car seemed OK but it was getting late in the evening so I thought for sure it would pick up it normally does when it cools off. Well it slowed way down by about 3 tenths! I didn't think much of it thought it was something I had done wrong so I loaded it on the trailer and went home. I got up the next day(Sunday) and went back to the track. I unloaded the car and went to the staging lanes and waited to make my first pass of the day. I pulled up did my burnout and BAME!! it just stopped running. Well to make a long story short I took it home and pulled it apart and found I had spun a rod bearing #5. I got to the filter and took the filter off (FRAM FILTER) and to my total surprise the oil passage that the filter screws on to was completely clogged with what looked to be filter material!! I called Fram with my obvious concern and they said they would fax me a compensation form and they wanted me to fill the form out get an estimate of the damages and send this to Fram with the filter. I did. I heard back about a week later in a letter, basically saying that it was my fault not theirs????? Are they kidding. I've been using Fram filters my whole life 35 years and as a matter of fact the same filter on the Camaro all last season . Oh ...and the filter that fell apart was a NEW filter bought within the last 2 months this year. I think it is pretty crappy of them just to blow me off like they did not only did they lose a great customer but they have gained an enemy! My motor is well worth $12-15,000 not to mention the time of RR of the engine and I only wanted these Jackasses to cover my basic costs of $3000.00! But now they have a pissed off a good customer !!!! What are these people thinking! Sorry ......... But I just needed to vent! Stan

[hammertime]

Stan sorry to hear of your bad luck. Fram has had this issue for a few years now. I have sense moved to Pure One or Puralator with good luck. System 1 filters are the best for sure. Again sorry to hear what happened hope you get it fixed soon.

[superbadass532]

Hammertime, Thanks for the info on the filters . I have heard that Wix is one of the best also. I guess its more pissed that Fram wouldn't take care of my issue since I wasn't trying to take them to the bank I just wanted what was fare. What would $3000.00 be to Fram/Honeywell corp. It would be like you or I throwing a penny on the ground! Here I go again ......... This hole thing just gets my blood pressure up!! Thx

[Tod74]

I wouldn't put a fram on a lawn mower..but personaly have had no trouble just base that opinion on their reputation.

[tazracing]

EVERY BODY IN MY CAMP USES WIX 51061R FILTER.NEVER HAD PROBLEM. MY ONE BUDDY HAS A BLOWN ENGINE BECAUSE OF A FRAM FILTER.

[gearhead1011]

I have seen the damage caused by the junk fram filters 1st hand. I think the tough guard or whatever name they use now were the worst. My business was sued by a vehicle owner that supplied his own filter. Fram wouldn't take any of the blame for that one either even though they admitted the media was too restrictive. That was about 6 years ago and I have talked to several people since then that have had problems with fram oil filters. It seems like the majority of the problems were on a sbc application. John Force was endorsing the product at the time and some of the people that I talked to said if it was good enough for him it's good enough for me. That's about the only thing about force I don't like but I know celebs endorse products for the paycheck and we should keep that in mind.

Sorry you had to learn an expensive lesson but to me this is another good reason to spend the bucks and buy a good racing filter like a system 1. If you decide to go after fram I think I still have documentation about the garbage they produce that I can forward to you.

[billhendren]

I have had that happen twice to my customers even though i tell everyone of them NOT to use fram filters. the first one I filled out the forms and sent the filter in.[ BIG MISTAKE] same results as you,they wouldn't cover it and they had the filter [evidence] the second time i photographed the filter and engine damage and sent the pictures in but NOT the filter.guess what,there insurance company called me within a week,came and inspected the filter and engine and payed for the damage 100% within two weeks.I have since told several other racers who had the same problem not to send the filter in and they all have been payed Bill

[zipper06]

As mentioned above, System One if you can afford it, Wix, NAPA, made by Wix is probably the better OTC filter.
Funny thing someone gave me 6 fram filters for S/BLK chevy, they are still laying on the back bench, i use NAPA/Wix only, with 3 drivers and 1 race car.

JMO


Zip.

[itsabird]

i have used wix for the last 4 years, no prob so far, a racer i know had trouble,s with fram, but got to it before it trashed the engine. dump the fram for sure. imo.

[gungho]

Bought a wix today at work,spun off the fram and installed it when I got home,so now I can sleep tonight .I did here nightmares about fram but,there so cheap I buy em buy the half dozen.no more,thanks for the heads up
P.S. I lost my filter wrench so I now use my teeth.

[superbadass532]

Hey everyone ............ We all need to keep this going that's the only way we are going to get to the Honeywell/Fram corporation. Their so big they think that all of us little pee on's will just go away!!! I was at the NHRA Nationals a couple of weeks ago and mind you this was after my Fram problem. I was sitting in the stands with my wife to watch the top fuel cars run and low and behold what pulls up a Top fuel dragster with Fram plastered all over the side of it!!!!!!! Man that really pissed me off! They can advertise their garbage at drag racing events but they won't back their product! If they don't want to pay us when our engines blow up for using their JUNK filters that's OK JUST PUT A DISCLAIMER ON THE BOX >>>>>>>>>> NOT FOR ENGINES THAT MAKE HORSEPOWER!!!!!!!!
SORRY HAD TO VENT SOMEMORE

THX EVERYONE WHO HAS CHIMMED IN>

STAN

[NorthMotorSports]

Go to the scammer watch part of the forum.... O and not to piss you off anymore but things do break when theyre under a lot of stress I know your motor was hurt but still shit happens it wasnt fram's fault.... Ive used alot of products on alot of different things and everything breaks wether it be an oil filter or a damn rear end everything breaks..... Just my opinion on the deal

[superbadass532]

NorthMotorSports..... Thanks for your input! The problem I have is that Fram doesn't put anything out there on their filter boxes or anywhere else that says don't use their filters on a particular application! If they had something on their filter box that told me that a particular application might have a filter failure I would have used a different filter. They are a very BIG company you would think they would put something on their packaging that makes people aware of the potential problem. I think they are just sweeping it under the rug! I have talked to some of the best engine builders in the country and they all agreed with me and not to mention that they said that Fram filters are the reason they have had to fix engines that had the same problem I had ! Take a look at some of the others in this post if you haven't already and this is only a days worth !!! I can't wait to see how many will add to this post over the next few days.

Thx

[superbadass532]

NorthMotorSports..... Oh by the way this AIN'T no Scam! I am a real person with a REAL problem!

[gungho]

Boy I sure was glad Dunkin Donuts put the word "HOT" on their coffee,until they did I thought it was cold. :lol:

[gearhead1011]

I own an automotive repair shop and most of the prolems I've seen with the fram filters were on dailey drivers that were bone stock.

[suicidebomb]

Guys, I had problems with fram oil filters on my race car also, and wix, and napa brand, and K&N, and a couple of others that don't come to mind right now. My little smallblock, makes 75psi of oil pressure at idle, well north of a hundred at WOT. I don't know how high it goes, but my gauge pegs at 100psi. But after peering down into them and seeing the insides crushed, I figured that screwed on oil filters are not made to withstand that kind of pressure. IMHO if you're makin a lot of oil pressure, and expect a basically stock type canister filter to do the job, you're playin with fire. BTW, I don't run them anymore, I got myself a good rebuildable, cleanable, racing type oil filter. No more problems with collapsing oil filters. Before I leave, I'm not trying to fire anyone up, or take any sides in this little discussion, this is strictly my own observation, and my opinion, with no basis on scientific fact.

[NorthMotorSports]

NorthMotorSports..... Thanks for your input! The problem I have is that Fram doesn't put anything out there on their filter boxes or anywhere else that says don't use their filters on a particular application! If they had something on their filter box that told me that a particular application might have a filter failure I would have used a different filter. They are a very BIG company you would think they would put something on their packaging that makes people aware of the potential problem. I think they are just sweeping it under the rug! I have talked to some of the best engine builders in the country and they all agreed with me and not to mention that they said that Fram filters are the reason they have had to fix engines that had the same problem I had ! Take a look at some of the others in this post if you haven't already and this is only a days worth !!! I can't wait to see how many will add to this post over the next few days

Thx Dont get all worked up and by the way I never said you were a scammer I sadi that you should go post this on the scammer watch section saying that fram filters scammed you and what not so next time somebody states their opinion read their post and dont get worked up

[jayss10]

I have had dealings with fram filters also,what happens is they colpase,inside and then come apart,it has happen to several cust. i have had in past, i contacted fram about it about 5 years ago, wow still doing it,why would a oil filter company keep making something that is a problem,i would use a stp filter before a fram........JAY

[Tod74]

I have had dealings with fram filters also,what happens is they colpase,inside and then come apart,it has happen to several cust. i have had in past, i contacted fram about it about 5 years ago, wow still doing it,why would a oil filter company keep making something that is a problem,i would use a stp filter before a fram........JAY

STP is made by FRAM I believe.

[superbadass532]

NorthMotorSports>>>> Sorry I took you the wrong way !! My Bad! I would put it on the Scammers board but it seems I am getting plenty of action on this board.
Thx

[RonOwensRacing]

I guess i am one of the lucky one's i used fram for a couple of years on a BBC and never had a problem i switch to the system one a few years ago just because it had a good reputation and i never have to buy another filter again.

But this is not the first time i have heard of fram and there filters I'm sorry to hear they want stand behind there product as big of a company as they are you would think that would be one of there first priority's to take care of the customers and make more of them instead of losing customers.

If this travels around enough i'm sure it will catch up to them just not soon enough.

[mopar1968]

I have alway's used K-N on my race car's had no problems. But now i use a moroso remote screen type filter.

[bjuice]

let me jump in here with 1st hand knowledge like the other guys.....3 yrs ago i had a fram on a 406ci sbc..69 camaro..street and strip car..oil pressure started creeping down..65/40/35/20...i shut it off in parking lot...towed car home, took line off oil gauge in car and hooked to another manual gauge with same problem......changed the filter to Pure one..BAM !!!! 65 psi..Been there ever since..i am just glad i caught in time....heck with Fram..

I agree with Bill send pictures and keep the evidence ( oil filter) if something happens like this...they have tons of insurance to cover stuff like this...sorry they did not cover you...that stinks !


Brian

[DOLLARBILL1]

This is kind of a long story......... Anyway about three weeks ago I got my 67 Camaro finally finished. I had the car completely stripped and repainted. So it was my first time out at the drag strip. I pulled the car off the trailer drive it around the pits and pulled into the lanes for my first pass of the season,pulled up made my pass every thing was fine,made a second pass everything seemed fine, The third pass the car seemed OK but it was getting late in the evening so I thought for sure it would pick up it normally does when it cools off. Well it slowed way down by about 3 tenths! I didn't think much of it thought it was something I had done wrong so I loaded it on the trailer and went home. I got up the next day(Sunday) and went back to the track. I unloaded the car and went to the staging lanes and waited to make my first pass of the day. I pulled up did my burnout and BAME!! it just stopped running. Well to make a long story short I took it home and pulled it apart and found I had spun a rod bearing #5. I got to the filter and took the filter off (FRAM FILTER) and to my total surprise the oil passage that the filter screws on to was completely clogged with what looked to be filter material!! I called Fram with my obvious concern and they said they would fax me a compensation form and they wanted me to fill the form out get an estimate of the damages and send this to Fram with the filter. I did. I heard back about a week later in a letter, basically saying that it was my fault not theirs????? Are they kidding. I've been using Fram filters my whole life 35 years and as a matter of fact the same filter on the Camaro all last season . Oh ...and the filter that fell apart was a NEW filter bought within the last 2 months this year. I think it is pretty crappy of them just to blow me off like they did not only did they lose a great customer but they have gained an enemy! My motor is well worth $12-15,000 not to mention the time of RR of the engine and I only wanted these Jackasses to cover my basic costs of $3000.00! But now they have a pissed off a good customer !!!! What are these people thinking! Sorry ......... But I just needed to vent! StanTHANK YOU I BOUGHT A FRAM TODAY I WAS GOING TO CHANGE MY OIL THIS WEEK I WILL BE TAKEING THE FRAM BACK TO THE STORE MONDAY AN AGAIN THANKS

[TheRabbit]

Had it happen on my '94 (stock) Silverado about 8 years ago. I was lucky enough to be getting off the interstate right by my shop. Sure enough, the filter collapsed, but I was lucky to catch it in time. I called fram they sent me a form and wanted the filter back. I sold the truck and never sent them the filter and will never use another fram again.
I just use a Wix on my BBC and don't worry about it anymore.
Also make sure you use K&N oil for their air filters. No oil on the filter and you'll dust the motor if you drive in dusty conditions!!

[mustangron]

I had the same thing happen to my stock sbf while running a K&N.

[Scooterz]

That's scary... got one (Fram) on my SBC 4wd truck (use the motorhome 1+ QT). I will ditch it... bad service is unacceptable. I use dual remote K&N's on my BBC 69 Camaro... no problems though.

It makes sence that with high RPM/flow/PSI -VS- stock pressure relief valve in a Fram w/ much of the inner core being paper content to strain 100's of micrometers & an outer thin wall made for engines that are "point A to point B" commuters, that when put on a race motor it will explode/collapse/fail... not to mention FRAM's are failing on stock motors as someone mentioned earlier.

No offense, but I do not use a Chinese made cheap U-Joint on my Dana60 running 488's either.... or run cheap/weak header gaskets... I bought the .62 Copper ones. Why run this kind of filter on a race motor in the first place???

Again, I don't want to add salt to the wound, just curious. Rigsby

[kwkracing]

how about the engines that tear up and pump the metal through the filter slowly ripping it apart, then blame it on the oil filter or excessive oil pressure for a inadequate filter design? Just a thought.

[bjuice]

That's scary... got one (Fram) on my SBC 4wd truck (use the motorhome 1+ QT). I will ditch it... bad service is unacceptable. I use dual remote K&N's on my BBC 69 Camaro... no problems though.

It makes sence that with high RPM/flow/PSI -VS- stock pressure relief valve in a Fram w/ much of the inner core being paper content to strain 100's of micrometers & an outer thin wall made for engines that are "point A to point B" commuters, that when put on a race motor it will explode/collapse/fail... not to mention FRAM's are failing on stock motors as someone mentioned earlier.

No offense, but I do not use a Chinese made cheap U-Joint on my Dana60 running 488's either.... or run cheap/weak header gaskets... I bought the .62 Copper ones. Why run this kind of filter on a race motor in the first place???

Again, I don't want to add salt to the wound, just curious. Rigsby


lol :D ..OHH How many times i have seen 2 dollar parts used to finisheoff a high dollar piece.

[Scooterz]

It is a tough lesson none the less... w/ a manufacturer who represents a big pile of Coparate BS...

But still.....

I have used cheap fuel pressure guages... that stick.
I have used cheap valve cover gaskets... that leak.
I have use cheap motor mounts... that break.
I have used cheap shift kits... that destroy transmissions.
Anyone ever had a cheap tach fail??? I have.

FRAM: (F)reakin'(R)uined(A)nother(M)otor

Anyways, it is a shame to lose a motor over a cheap product.

[fla1976]

I just made a 180 mile trip last Wednesday (Oct. 15) and when I got off the highway the engine ran fine but I heard a noise that sounded like a water valve opening and closing, kind of a thumping. This is in a Nissan Sentra 4 cylinder. I had earlier read this thread and it was fresh in my mind. The noise was coming from the area where the oil filter is located. It was a Fram. So I had the filter replaced at a Firestone dealer since that was the nearest garage and it requires the car to be way up in the air to facilitate removal of the filter. It is between the firewall and the block under the intake manifold. Needless to say, the noise is gone. I will never use Fram filters again. I got away cheap. In a racecar, I seriously doubt you could have heard the noise that it made. If you have a Fram oil filter, I would highly recommend changing it immediately.

[jwc329]

i had a fram ph13 fail on me too.i dont use them anymore

[kwkracing]

Does anyone think these engines are tearing up the oil filters when they grenade?

[bjuice]

my 406ci did not grenade..i still have it and it runs fine....i started losing oil pressure as i went down the road and i parked it in a local business parking lot and had it towed home...if i wasn't an ANAL OLD fart who constantly watches his gauges it was a matter of mInutes/seconds i would have lost something in the engine.

and to be honest..i was thinking everything but the Oil fillter..1st thing that came to mind is a failing Oil Pump,then i said ok the oil gauge is going bad..hooked up another gauge..same problems (20 psi and creeping down)...next i even thought maybe i spun a cam bearing or a main ...then when i ruled out everything i just replaced the filter to a Pure one purelator and BAM !!!..OIL PRESSURE went from 20 psi to 65 psi in seconds flat....No problems since

if this had not happened to me personally i would be blowing this thread off as many probably have.... i am sure this doesn't happen to all people who use the fram filter but it has happened too many times..too many similiar stories...


fram sux

[superbadass532]

I just want to thank everyone who chimmed in on this thread. I can say with confidence now that the Fram oil filter I used WAS the reason I had engine failure. I have filed in small claims court and have a date in November. I could only file for $3000.00 but I guess thats better than what I have now. That number just barely covers the engine repair. That doesn't include any of my time R&Ring the engine and not to mention the season is about over!! They will most likely want to settle out of court and most likely for less ! I guess I see where this all goes. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thx

Stan

[edvancedengines]

Best oil filtering system available. initially costs more but blown engines do cost tooo.

I WD this from them and can jobber to you.

www.gopurepower.com

Ed

[cepx111]

I don't know what happened to fram they probably went cheap on the material or something they used to be pretty good. I do know it has become a BIG problem for them and nobody I know uses them any more. Myself like many of my friends have gone to the 6 dollar pure one filter, Napa's wix filters are good too.
The main reason I chimmed in here is that if your like me you race and in a race stiuation you really don't have time to be staring at a oil pressure gauge. Granted you might glance at it during a burn-out or while staging and even at the end of the run but when your driving at WOT your focus better be on the track. Now every motor I ever raced I've put a BIG OLE low oil pressure idiot light on the dash, it's just like a shift light but with a red lens, they are super bright and easily seen.
A oil accumulator is great idea too and that coupled with a low oil pressure ignition kill swith and you'll be CYA for sure.

Just thought> Cp

[mikeaton]

well ive been watching this thread and just for the record ,and yes i do this[change oil] for a living now in a "major" lube company ok walmart. after i retired after 25 years of wrenching for myself, i deceided to go back to work but in a slower enviorment. we average on a slow week 30-35 cars a day take 30 a day times 7 days a week is 210 cars times that by 52 weeks thats 10,920 cars a year. every one of them were fram filters! now before any of you pass judgement on me i dont run a fram in my race car or my transporter but all of my daily drivers i do. knock on wood at work as far as i know most all walmarts use fram filters in the oil bays. i havent heard about any failures related to the filters as i write this but all i can speak for is my store here in new mexico. just my 2 cents worth

[TheRabbit]

well ive been watching this thread and just for the record ,and yes i do this[change oil] for a living now in a "major" lube company ok walmart. after i retired after 25 years of wrenching for myself, i deceided to go back to work but in a slower enviorment. we average on a slow week 30-35 cars a day take 30 a day times 7 days a week is 210 cars times that by 52 weeks thats 10,920 cars a year. every one of them were fram filters! now before any of you pass judgement on me i dont run a fram in my race car or my transporter but all of my daily drivers i do. knock on wood at work as far as i know most all walmarts use fram filters in the oil bays. i havent heard about any failures related to the filters as i write this but all i can speak for is my store here in new mexico. just my 2 cents worth

If there were 1 bad 1 made in 10 million I WOULD GET THAT 1 !!!
Never fails. anything that says "results may vary" I can count on getting the "very" worst!! No kidding you and I can go to a store together pick item off shelf together and dam if mine want be broke when i open the box. either way I WILL NEVER HAVE A FRAM PRODUCT ON MY MOTOR!!
Maybe your filters say MADE IN MEXICO on them!!!!! lol!!

[gearhead1011]

as far as i know most all walmarts use fram filters in the oil bays. i havent heard about any failures related to the filters as i write this but all i can speak for is my store here in new mexico. just my 2 cents worth

Yeah, but how many engine failures have occurred that the owners didn't relate to the oil change they had done a few weeks ago? Keep in mind that the filter doesn't stop the flow of oil but restricts it to the point of opening the bypass and and circulating a reduced amount of unfiltered oil. I have had vehicles come into my shop with lifters clicking and lower than normal oil pressure that was still in the safe operating range right after an oil change had been done. Replacing the fram filter with a different brand has always fixed the problem.

[superbadass532]

Hey Guys........ I just want to update you on whats going on . Frams/Honeywells attorneys have contacted me this week asking for a continuance. I don't know if they are just messing with me or it's legit? Anyway I have another court date sometime in December! Cross your fingers for me! Now I just want to get something straight after seeing all of the responce to this thread I am sure anyone can see that many others beside myself have had similar problems with Fram filters. I would say just one is bad enough if it was your 15 or $20,000 engine. The biggest thing with me is that they advertise all over the drag racing community on dragsters, billboards you get the picture but they won't stand behind there product! I think they think most people will go away or aren't willing to fight a huge corporation like Honeywell/Fram and like with my thing I sent the filter in hopes that they would see that there filter completely fell apart but instead of saying it was there fault they sent me a letter with all kinds of technical crap the average guy doesn't understand. So what happens the average guy says well maybe it wasn't the filter!?I have been talking to many well know engine builders since this happened to my engine and they completely agree with me that there was NO reason for my engine to cause the filter failure!

Thx
Stan

[TheRabbit]

Stan
You are exactly right. They will send technical info, but you need the same in your defense. Make sure you have info and a very reputable engine builder with you. Please don’t go to court without being very well prepared!! I said the same thing, no way am I going to waste my time and money to lose to a big corporation. Mine failed almost 10 years ago and I’d never heard of anyone else having filter failure before.
I don't care what a judge says, fram has a problem and I want use them again.

[excelerater]

years ago a friends mustang engine siezed up because of a fram filter
and they ended up paying for a brand new engine -

Fram,costs more and made in canada-
STP costs less and made in the USA
Fram I would guess is being greedy and offers a
less than spectacular filter

I prefer WIX or STP personally

good luck

[heckwx]

CUT A FRAM APART AND CUT A WIX APART. YOU CAN SEE THE QUALITY DIFFERENCE.

[poncholvr]

i thought wix was the same as fram
could it be because the oil pressure is not factory? and is too great for these junk stock style filters??


"DEAR K&N PLEASE MAKE US SOME AWESOME OIL FILTERS FOR AUTOS"

if they dont already- i havent seen any yet,but im sure they would be the best! k&n are a fantastic filter,and flow great,
(oil and air) :D

[fla1976]

K&N do make oil filters, I think you can find them on Jeg's or Summitt.

[TheRabbit]

i thought wix was the same as fram
could it be because the oil pressure is not factory? and is too great for these junk stock style filters??
:D

My fram failure was on a completely stock Silverado with less than 100,000 miles.
I've always used Wix and nothing else on my racing motors. Too scared and really no reason to change. ( that i know of).
PLEASE DON"T TELL ME MY WIX IS A FRAM(it)!

[zipper06]

Wix is independent, makes NAPA filters and #'s cross reference, nothing to do with FRAM.

Zip.

[billhendren]

i thought wix was the same as fram
could it be because the oil pressure is not factory? and is too great for these junk stock style filters??
:D

My fram failure was on a completely stock Silverado with less than 100,000 miles.
I've always used Wix and nothing else on my racing motors. Too scared and really no reason to change. ( that i know of).
PLEASE DON"T TELL ME MY WIX IS A FRAM(it)!

Get a Fram and Wix and cut them apart,you will then see that they are entirely different. the core that collapsed in the Fram is cardboard of some sort the Wix is steel, compare the filtering media, both volume and type.
At this point most people would never use a Fram again. Bill

[superbadass532]

Hi Bill,
I am just wondering if you would be willing to write up a little something on your experiences because of Fram filter failure? I have a new court date for Dec. 5th. Please let me know if you are willing? I can give you a call and we can talk it over.

Thx Stan

[poncholvr]

yea since there are a few of those cases maybe that guy could go back on them now for the total amount of the motor?

i wasn't sure on the k&n oil filters for auto's thanks for the help there ,as i will use them i love there products 8)

[billhendren]

Hi Bill,
I am just wondering if you would be willing to write up a little something on your experiences because of Fram filter failure? I have a new court date for Dec. 5th. Please let me know if you are willing? I can give you a call and we can talk it over.

Thx Stan

Be glad to help you out. 828-286-0780 Bill

[TheRabbit]

I was telling one of my good friends about this thread to remind him of my fram issue several years ago. His little boy was listening. After I finished he looked at me so serious and asked what if you cut a ford and Chevy open to see the difference. With a straight face, I told him, SAD, BUT FORD is built by FRAM!! He replied, but their not the ones begging for all the money from the government!! Dam kids :evil:

[TheYellaBrick]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
OUR KIDS ARE SMARTER THAN OUR GOVERNMENT !
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[bjuice]

I was telling one of my good friends about this thread to remind him of my fram issue several years ago. His little boy was listening. After I finished he looked at me so serious and asked what if you cut a ford and Chevy open to see the difference. With a straight face, I told him, SAD, BUT FORD is built by FRAM!! He replied, but their not the ones begging for all the money from the government!! Dam kids :evil:


LMAO :D

[Tod74]

I was telling one of my good friends about this thread to remind him of my fram issue several years ago. His little boy was listening. After I finished he looked at me so serious and asked what if you cut a ford and Chevy open to see the difference. With a straight face, I told him, SAD, BUT FORD is built by FRAM!! He replied, but their not the ones begging for all the money from the government!! Dam kids :evil:

Sounds like somebody needs more chores to do.

[top2096]

Guys this also happen to me not to long ago, I had just got a new short block from Shafiroff a new dart block and all th e goody's put my cam and heads on it set it in fired it up and it realy sounded good let it get good and hot shut it off ,later my son came by to hear it run and when it started i noticed I only had about 20 lbs of oil pressure .shut it down and started checking things out after pulling valve covers checking the oil I pulled the filter off and found it had collasped on the inside blocking the hole .Didn't hurt the motor but I use nothing but K&N from that point on

[bbadperformance]

One year ago I was doing an oil change on my 69 Camaro powered by
a 434 SBC It's mainly a bracket car. I decided to go to Wal-Mart
and pick up some mobile 1 synthetic oil about $50, I thought it was the cheapest place to buy the oil, Well they didn't carry the K&N that I normaly ran so I picked up a Fram. After I changed the oil I loaded the car on the trailer and headed off to the track, Now keep in mind that my motor only makes 60 psi cold and 45-50 warm and Idles at 28-30
so I make two passes and no problems, I make the third pass and half way through the oil pressure drops to "0" so I kill the motor, pull the car to the trailer and once it's loaded I check the oil, oil level is fine so I start the car and no oil pressure so I shut it off and take it home. I connected another oil pressure gauge to the engine and fired it again and no oil pressure was the results, I pulled the engine from the car and dropped the pan nothing in the oil so I strained it to put it back in.
I also installed a new oil pump got it buttoned up dropped in my pump primer hit the drill and nothing so now I'm thinking time to rebuild.
Something told me to wait so it sat on the stand for two weeks as I talked to every one I new and every one had there opinions but when an older guy at the track said he had the same problem and it turned out to be the oil filter and it was a Fram, I thought that was easy enough to check .
So on the way home I picked up a new K&N and installed and hit the drill
and Yes right back to 60 PSI. After that I put 200 more passes on the motor and pulled it to freshen it and the bearing looked great. So from that day forward I will not buy any Fram products and I tell every one that Fram filters are garbage.

[camarotale]

put a fram on and when i hit 5000 rpms oil pressure fell to 20 psi because oil by pass would open , fram is ok for the family car but not a race filter, but I dont know how the expensive fram preformance filter is, but there is a lot of inexpensive filters on the market, that will out preform a fram

[denn468]

are you guys talking about their regular filters or frams racing filters because i had their regular filter collapes on me but i now use their racing filters

[dparker]

With all the bad experiences out their with Fram filters, what difference would it make. Their are plenty of other good filters that haven't had these problems. Why take any chances with your engine.
Dont use FRAM filters would be my bottom line opinion!!

[denn468]

has anyone had this problem with frams hp4 filters they are made for the high pressure oiling systems im not defending fram but i have not had a problem since i changed to the hp filters they are around 12 bucks at summit compared to 4bucks for the stock fram filter i also will change filters after readig this post but i still want to know if anyone has had problems with the hp filter

[dparker]

After my first bad experience with a stock Fram. I installed a Hp Fram. Didn't have any problem with the first one, but little while after the second one, my oil pressure went down to 40psi. Then 20psi, then to almost nothing. IMO I think something blows out in the filter. In their defense, everytime I've heard of this, it was with an engine with more than 60psi. Mine engine idles hot at 50psi but goes up to almost 80psi with the rpm up. You can run one, and it may work, but I think its a problem waiting to happen.

[superbadass532]

Hey guys....... I went to court Friday. I asked the judge for a continuance because I happened to know a judge and I told him about a week ago about my problem and he said don't go in without a pro witness someone that looked at my parts and is in the business of building engines. So I didn't ! I couldn't get my engine builder quick enough for my court date so I asked for a date in Jan. The judge did ask us to go out in the hall at the court house to see if we could "work" things out......... Well I did just to see if maybe they would maybe settle out of court,but the guy Honeywell/Frams lawyer brought with them who was suppose to be Frams expert said Fram isn't going to pay on this because they don't think they are at fault and that maybe it was contaminents in my oil that caused the failure!? Are they kidding contaminents. I told this "expert" that I ran this exact engine , oil and oil filter all last year without any problem so why now ? Contaminents? Then he asks me if I drag race the car? Yes. Then he says well that filter wasn't meant to be used on that application. Well I have one really big question......... Why is the NHRA logo on the Damn box!!!!! I'll bring this up in court in Jan. I can't wait to hear their answer!

Stan

[koab26]

I HAVE BEEN DIRT TRACK RACING FOR FOUR SEASONS NOW AND I CAN TRULY TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE DRIVER WITH A FRAM FILTER ON THEIR RACE CARS. I KNOW FOR A FACT MOST OF US RUN WIX, I ALSO RUN WIX FILTERS ON MY DAILY DRIVER WHICH IS ALSO THE VEHICLE THAT I PULL MY CAR TO THE TRACK WITH WEEKLY. I WORK FOR OREILLY AUTO PARTS AND I PERSONALLY WOULD RECOMMEND TO ANY CUSTOMER TO PURCHASE OUR HOUSE BRAND RATHER THAN A FRAM. NO B.S IT'S PRETTY SAID WHEN THE BIG COMPANIES ADVERTISE CRAP SAYING THAT IF THERE IS ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR VEHICLE DUE TO THE USEAGE OF OUR PRODUCT WE WILL PAY FOR DAMAGES. WELL THE BEST WAY TO GET BACK AT THEM IS TO SLAM THEM ON EVERY WEBSITE THAT YOU AND YOU FELLOW RACERS VISIT. BUST THEIR ASSES.

[TheRabbit]

Hey guys....... /Frams lawyer brought with them who was suppose to be Frams expert said Fram isn't going to pay on this because they don't think they are at fault and that maybe it was contaminents in my oil that caused the failure!?
Stan

It want help you now, but for anybody in the future. Get an oil sample and send it to a lab. I'm a manager for a heavy equipment co and we sample all fluids (Trans, engine oil, hyd oil, rear and front axle, final drives) when we service equipment. That would have given you proof from a lab that specializes in oil test. Would be hard for fram to beat that.
My 1994 chevy silverado was completely stock.
FRAM OIL FILTERS ARE JUNK!!

[supergass]

OK my turn! I have a 1994 Toyota 4x4 truck with a 22r 4 cyl. I drive it everyday. Wal Mart stopped selling the AC Delco filters so I bought a few frams for the first time about 2-3 years ago. One day the engine oil light came on and I didnt beleive it so I kept moving on but slowly. In another 50 yards I heard the valve train start to rattle and I shut it off. I got out and checked the oil first thing, no oil on the stick....I couldnt believe it! I got help and added oil to the fill mark and started it up. NO OIL PRESSURE! I went and got my truck and race car trailer and brought it home. A friend of mine is a toyota mechanic. He ask me what filter I used and I said a fram is on it now. He said CHANGE THAT FIRST THING. I did and the oil pressure came right back. Guess what else........It all of the sudden had double the amount of oil in it!!! Now on these engines the filter is on its side! Where did all that oil hide?? Weird if you ask me. I am lucky I was paying attention. If someone else was borrowing my truck and that happened it would have been history and I wouldnt know why. You guys....it doesnt have to be a race application for these things to fail!!

[superbadass532]

It is amazing how many people have had problems with Fram filters! These guys at Fram aren't going to admit to their filters failing because that would be an admission of guilt and if that happened WOW could you see the people coming out of the woodwork!I was talking to my engine builder today about the same subject and he said he has had alot of engine failures that he could attribute to Fram filter failure but knowone is willing to go after these guys!!! Everyone thinks that they are so big that they can't be beat!!! Well I hope to prove that WRONG next week! Wish me luck!

Thx everybody that has chimmed in on this thread!!!!I'll keep you posted.

Stan

[TheYellaBrick]

It is my understanding that the Fram filtering material is so fine that they are not able to move the required flow of high volume pumps, thus causing internal collapse. Or as in a daily driver, the long term wear of internal engine components as well as contaminants, etc., will plug them up faster.
In other words, they are over built.

[promod138]

Fram is Overbuilt???????????? Was that something fram puts on the box?

[iowackers]

I was a GM mechanic and now I work for John Deere supervising their drivetrain test lab. I researched oil filters for my BAJA boat. It's old, but it still has a big block Chevy. The Fram filters are put together with paper elements and glued together. It would not take very high press. to make one of these filters come apart. Cold startups and thick oil are enemies to this filter. DO NOT USE THEM. THE AC DELCO AND WIX ARE SUPERIOR!!!! USE THEM. IT'S WORTH THE EXTRA MONEY!

Scott

[toofazt4u]

Hey everyone ............ We all need to keep this going that's the only way we are going to get to the Honeywell/Fram corporation. Their so big they think that all of us little pee on's will just go away!!! I was at the NHRA Nationals a couple of weeks ago and mind you this was after my Fram problem. I was sitting in the stands with my wife to watch the top fuel cars run and low and behold what pulls up a Top fuel dragster with Fram plastered all over the side of it!!!!!!! Man that really pissed me off! They can advertise their garbage at drag racing events but they won't back their product! If they don't want to pay us when our engines blow up for using their JUNK filters that's OK JUST PUT A DISCLAIMER ON THE BOX >>>>>>>>>> NOT FOR ENGINES THAT MAKE HORSEPOWER!!!!!!!!
SORRY HAD TO VENT SOMEMORE

THX EVERYONE WHO HAS CHIMMED IN>

STAN
Thank's for the advice Stan...I am going to pull the fram off My engine as of today...It is just TOO BAD that some''high er up'' at fram cannot see what damage they have done by a simple mistake...With a big company....SATISFACTION BY THE CUSTOMER RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SVRE]

Well boys, I have used fram filters on a handfull of race engines I buillt with no problems. Until now.

I quit using them becouse of everything i heard, even though I had never had a failure. Well, last week i had a customer call me saying that his oil pressure droped from 55lbs @1100 rpm to 19lbs , and all he did was change the oil and filter. (I sent it out with a wix race filter, he changed to a fram) I told him to change the filter and call me back. He called me back today after installing another wix, and the oil pressure returned to 55lbs.

Im the last person to throw stones......but i will never install another fram oil filter.

Steve

[kw89425]

i got 1 for you guys. i dont and cant recall ever using fram but i have for as long as i can recall been using wix. i use wix on my drag car pickup and the kicker my semi. the abuse my cat holds almost 70 psi at hwy speed which is almost all day long almost every day and if its hot or really cold never gets shut off till i get home. this motor had just under 2 million miles on it when i sold the truck. i only use wix for oil fuel and water with 9 gallons of rotella and 1 gallon of lucas changing the oil every 10,000 miles. i know its not the same as a drag racing motor but still thats alot of miles and alot of hours.

fram? whats a fram?

[superbadass532]

WELL........... I went to court and made my case. Fram showed up with a big shot lawyer and their so called specialist that said he had every degree in the world! Anyway I lost the case! The best part was that the judge said at the end of the trial that if he was going to rule on the case based on his "heart" he would have ruled for me! Then he said because he has to rule based on how well the case was presented he said he would have to rule in favor of FRAM???!!! I guess I could have spent $ 1000.00 or more and brought an attorney with me but then that wouldn't have guaranteed a win for me and then I would have been out a bunch more $$$$$ that I really don't have. One thing that really made me feel good was when we first went to the frt of the court room the judge asked me if I had an attorney with me ? I said no! He then said he thinks it would be better for me if I had one and asked if I would like a continuence so that I can get a lawyer. I was thinking it over and as I was thinking it over Frams attorney told the judge that they have already spent the amount I was asking for just coming down from the Cleveland ohio area and spending the night. Boy it felt great knowing that they had to spend some money on this whole deal!! One more thing when I was leaving the court room I looked back at the judge and said your honor do yourself a favor and don't use a Fram filter on your car! Whats next? I don't really know maybe a class action law suit? Maybe? Or just keep this forum going so that we can let as many people know about these Crappy FRAM filters as we can!!!!!!
Thanks everyone

Stan

[fla1976]

Just cleaned the garage a little bit. Threw 5 new Fram filters in the trash where they belong. Funny how the junk collects.

[TheYellaBrick]

Need to start a new competition for car shows and other car related events. FRAM TOSSING ! Either by arm or by launcher.
Work it into a charity event for our military families.
Gads would Fram's lawyers have a herd of cows or what ?!?! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[SVRE]

Frams attorney told the judge that they have already spent the amount I was asking for just coming down from the Cleveland ohio area and spending the night.


THATS the part that is bullshit. Funny how things work.

[TheRabbit]

I guess we should have all pitched in and help get you an lawer. To bad a laywer hasn't had the same bad experience we did with fram!!!!

[TheYellaBrick]

That'd be the thing to do ! FIND an attorney who HAS had a 'FRAM EXPERIENCE', load him / her up with personal and documented stories and let 'er rip.

[shybx1969]

GEE whatever happened to pay me now or pay me later!!!! remember that commercial in the 70s... :)

[billhendren]

What state allows lawyers in small claims court? did you have the filter as evidence? Bill

[Scooterz]

That is way sad. A common American cannot get compensated when screwd & has to have a lawyer to even have a case??? That is BS!! Well, you have us... word of mouth between us all is pretty damaging too. Here is one thing we should all do....

Let's find out the contact info for FRAM (maybe the president/CEO) & all e-mail the pricks individually. We should explain any defects we have had, and what we plan on doing in the future in reagrds to FRAM. We can tell them that we will tell the world that they do not back up their product, do not take resonsibility, we will no longer buy them, & we will tell everyone we know in the automotive world. We should make a post soon & start e-mailing them right away. This is wrong!!!

So if I understand correctly, if you would have had a lawyer represent you, you would have won the case??? Man, that is wrong.

[superbadass532]

The Judge in know uncertain terms said I should have a Lawyer representing me. I just felt I didn't have the extra $$$'s it would take to hire a lawyer and then still have the chance of losing anyway. I live in Ohio so I don't really know what the rules are when it comes to small claims in other states. I thought I would have a fare chance in small claims . I guess not! It's the same old stuff the HUGE corporation screws the little guy!!! I think we should get our own campaign together and go to all of the race tracks and show everyone what can happen to their motors if they use Fram filters!!! I know that I may have used the wrong filter but I think its not about that as much as it is about their misleading advertising.The box has the NHRA logo and they don't say anything anywhere that their standard oil filters can't or shouldn't be used on a HP motor. That is misleading!!!!!!

[gearhead1011]

What state allows lawyers in small claims court? did you have the filter as evidence? Bill
Kentucky, I can't say about the others...

The Judge in know uncertain terms said I should have a Lawyer representing me....
...The box has the NHRA logo and they don't say anything anywhere that their standard oil filters can't or shouldn't be used on a HP motor. That is misleading!!!!!!

I think most judges (or at least the ones I have dealt with) take offense to the average Joe presenting his case. I get the impression that their attitude is if you're going to present your case (in HIS courtroom) you need to know everything about courtroom procedure and the law. I had to take a car lot to small claims court and my lawyer told me I should just present my case without his help, that it would be a slam dunk. I didn't feel good about doing that and talked him into going with me. I won and I know it sounds cliche' but it was about principle and not a matter of spending anything I would collect on legal fees. It sure felt good.

I don't think it matters if it was used on a hp application. The problems I have ran into with them was on stock daily drivers.

[cpgeneration]

we have used system 1 filters on race equipment with great results, 70 wt oil 120-140 lbs, can be cleaned in solvent, just replace the o rings, and you can see if the engine is making any kind of trash maybe before it is too late.. :)

[lastfbody]

I totally agree with tazracing. The 51061R is the right filter for racing as far as spin on paper filters are concerned. Engine builders such as Huntsville Engines and others recommend this one.

It is a wix filter (this is the NAPA number). If you have your NAPA guy look it up for you in their filter book, it says that it is designed for use in engines that are using high volume oil pumps - flows more. I have seen them somewhere on line for as little as $12+. A very good insurance policy.

[lastfbody]

This forum and others like it will get Fram what they deserve for not responding to their problems. Let everybody know and keep replying until Fram has had enough. Someone should have a decal made up that says Fram filters with the circle that has a line across it and all of you that have experienced this problem should put them on your race cars, trailers, etc. It will likely (hopefully) draw media attention. It would be cheaper than and more effective than a lawyer.

[Scooterz]

Lastfbody-

I am w/ you this one!! I like the sticker idea too. Does that Wix # work well on a remote spin on as well?? I would like to try it... I have been using a K & N.

[superbadass532]

Hey fellas...... Great idea about the sticker thing! I am going to look into getting some made. I'll let you guys know when I find out something. If I can get them made cheap enough I'll give everyone one that wants one. Maybe just get a little something for shipping.

Their is more than one way to skin a cat!

Thx Stan

[TheRabbit]

It's called FRAM for a reason. Use it and your motor will FRAM!

Just a simple decal that has an X through Fram and says "Friends don't let friends use FRAM"

[gearhead1011]

I know let's see who can come up with the best acronym. I'll start
Fries
Rings
And
Mains

[THERATTLER]

FRAM
RUINS
ALL
MOTORS
:oops:

[gearhead1011]

I should have made it.
Fries
Rods
And
Mains

[cepx111]

I should have made it.
Fries
Rods
And
Mains
LMAO..... good one.

[superbadass532]

Man thoughs are great ! I was thinking of a bright orange oil filter with fram in black and a big circle around it with a slash through it and maybe below that something that says don't use fram filters ask me why. Simple but to the point. What do you think?

Stan

[robsbird]

:) :?: hey Bad I have a automotive buss and use fram and other filters as well, I would not say Ive had a problem with fram but if they wont help you. well! I,m going to show this to my parts rep. and make shure that he contacts fram and they have responded to him. I will not use a fram product until you are treated fairly. and anyone else who has a automotive buss that use,s filters, air, oil, fuel,crank case filter, pcvs etc. stop useing fram and ill guarantee they will do something. did you get the oil filter back from fram.rob

[TheYellaBrick]

http://www.zazzle.com/team61driver/gifts

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[TheRabbit]

:) :?: hey Bad I have a automotive buss and use fram and other filters as well, I would not say Ive had a problem with fram.rob
ALL I'LL SAY IS KEEP USING FRAM FILTERS AND YOU WILL FIND A GOOD ONE THAT WILL FRAM YOUR MOTOR! LOL! Good thing you stopped when you did.

F orever
Ruin
A
Motor

[482]

Forget
Racing
Any
More 8)

[superbadass532]

Hi robsbird, Thanks for your support! I did get the filter that failed back from Fram. I guess you read the rest of this thread. I did go to court and took the filter with me as well as a new Fram and a Wix both cut apart so I could show the judge. If you get a chance to cut those filters apart do, you will be amazed at the diff in the two! The Fram is a peice of Crap! It looks like its made from carboard. After seeing that I wouldn't run the Fram filter on my lawnmower! It really didn't make any diff the judge would'nt rule in my favor because I did'nt present my case as well. It was small claims court and I thought I would have a better and fare chance because it was small claims , I guess not! The judge did say if it was up to him based on his heart he would have ruled in my favor? Well that sure didn't help me recoup some of the $4-5,000 lose I have because of the FRAM filter failture!

[FRANKNSTEIN]

had the same issue on my new 406 had a "F---" on it and after second start oil pressure was 20 psi and stayed there. when i first started it it was 65 psi. put a napa 1060 on it went right back to 65. thanks for the comments about "F---" I WILL NEVER USE ONE AGAIN AND I AM TELLING EVERYONE I RACE WITH AND KNOW ABOUT THERE PROBLEMS

FRAM

F-FREQUENT
R-REBUILD'S
A-AND
M-MONEY

[Scooterz]

F: Further

R: Raping

A: All

M: Motors

[TheYellaBrick]

F-ragging
R-aping
A-nd
M-utilating

Sounds like our Government :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[MowerPower2U]

I owned an automotive shop for several years.About ninety percent of the engines that came to the shop for rebuilds had Fram filters on them.One of my friends brought his truck in because of no oil pressure(Fram filter) Crank,Rods and Mains were fried.I took the filter apart and there was no element or check valve inside.Only thing was the can and a loose spring inside it.
I put a sign up alerting customers about Fram filters.I had three customers who swore by them and told me they didn't think they were that bad.I ask them to take a trip with me and they agreed.So i took the next day off and closed the shop.We visited salvage yards in a 250 mile radius.We counted engines in their scrap engine piles and noted the filters on each.Then we went to their good engine storage area and noted all the engines and filter type.We counted over 700 scrap engines,All but 6 had Fram filters.We counted over 1,100 good engines only 2 had Fram filters.
Needless to say,They were convinced.When we got back to my shop one of the guy's opened his storage box on his truck and took out 6 Fram filters and threw them in my trash can and looked at me and said "I had no idea.No more of these for me"!

[MowerPower2U]

Fram Filters :x

F: Felt

R: Robbed

A: And

M: Molested

[MEMRACING62]

F=FRIED R=RODS A=AND M=MAINS :cry: :cry:

[MEMRACING62]

OFFICIAL FILTER OF THE NHRA :shock: :shock: WHAT A BAD JOKE!!

[THERATTLER]

N H R A :( :( WHAT A BAD JOKE :!:

[donkeyfarmer]

Fram junk! I have an endouro car with a350 and HV oil pump, After 54 laps, I noticed the oil pressure dropping. If I let out of the throttle, Oil pressure would go up 5 more psi. If I get back in the throttle, the oil pressure would go down 5 psi. I had 60 psi at the start of the race. I almost pulled the motor condemning the crank, but instead changed the filter and 65 PSI WAS BACK! I cut the old filter open and found the inside was ruptured! Fram almost cost me time and $$$$, But after reading this posting I got away easy. Thanks to you all who commented on this topic!!! :D :D :D

[TheRabbit]

Fram junk!I cut the old filter open and found the inside was ruptured! Fram almost cost me time and $$$$, But after reading this posting I got away easy. Thanks to you all who commented on this topic!!! :D :D :D

It's just too bad nobody from Fram reads this! Maybe we could start a Class Action Lawsuit. In a Class Action suite we wouldn't get much, but it would cost Fram a ton and it would become public knowledge which is the main thing anyway.

[superbadass532]

I think Fram knows their is a problem with their filters they just know if they admit in court or any where else they would open themselves up to a pool of people that would come back claiming that Fram was the cause of a huge amount of motor failures. So it's deny,deny,deny. It's better than paying who knows how much in damages? I do agree that a class action law suit would be the way to go. Not to mention if this gets out the people that won't have to go through what I and many others have gone through because of these piece of crap filters!!!! Do we have a lawyer on the boards that would take this on ??? Most likely not ...... They don't like to get their hands dirty or should I say Greasy! I do hope that by me posting this I have saved some guys from the expense I had to deal with.

Thx Stan

[Tod74]

I have an Uncle that runs circle track and that's all he will use...I have mentioned the bad reputation and he says he has ran em for years with no trouble.... :? I hope he don't become the next victim.

[justin45]

yea fram is the worst oil filter ive seen. they suck at filtering ur oil and most ive seen leak no matter how good u put them on and there usualy hard as hell to get off. the gaskets also fall of alot when ur putting them on wich some people dont pay attention to and spray there oil out everywhere. fram sucks!!!!!

[MEMRACING62]

DIRKA , READ THIS THREAD.BACK TO THE TOP

[DirkaDirka]

This is one way to get someone to read a thread. :lol: :lol:

[DirkaDirka]

Forget
Rebuilding
Another
Motor

[DirkaDirka]

Forget
Rebuilding
Another
Motor

Replace it with a ......

Wins
In all
Xtremes


I have used Fram for 15 yrs never had a prob with them. But from what I read I think I am with everybody else and going to a diff brand. I seen a Fram and Wix I believe cut apart and they were very diff. I hsould have changed then.

[TheYellaBrick]

Dirk,
What brand/s are used over there in the sandbox ?

[DirkaDirka]

Dirk,
What brand/s are used over there in the sandbox ?


Do you really want to know??

[TheYellaBrick]

Yes, this is a serious inquiry into the maintenance and repair challenges you guys and gals are facing over there. It'd be very educational and of great interest to all of us stateside gearheads.

I was a 63B20 in Vietnam(wheeled vehicle mechanic) and we had everything from talcum powder red dust to the stickiest, slickest red mud known to man.

[DirkaDirka]

OK cant say I didnt warn ya........

I was a 63b my second deployment in 05-06. We used Fram oil filters when we did the servicing on the huummers. The big equipments also had Fram. Now If we didnt have any Fram oil filters we had ones that were all white. They didnt have a name on them so I cant tell you what they were. They also came in plain brown boxes, except the Fram.

[TheYellaBrick]

What is the longest that you go between oil/filter changes ?

[DirkaDirka]

Since we had I believe 100+ vehicles we would try to get them changed every 3000 miles but in 1 year that was kinda hard to do with so many vehicles. So it might be only once in that year time frame.

[TheYellaBrick]

You ever cut 'em apart and examine the filtering material after 3,000 miles/1 year ? If so, what'd you find ?

[DirkaDirka]

There was a few that we had to rip apart just to get them off the engine. We found that they were still all together for the most part. Dont know if what was torn apart was from us or was there before we had to rip it apart.

[cepx111]

Leave it to the miltary to buy the cheapest crap they can get there hands on.
I'll try to have faith though, maybe the plain white jane filters were WIX.

I think for the most part a everyday run if the mil street engine probably wouldn't be hurt by a fram but when you run a HV pump zing it up to 6500+ RPMS and use thick 20W50 oil is when it becomes a problem, their media cant handle that kinda flow and pressure and breaks down.
Not to mention their anti drain back valve never works, thats why you hear them rods clatter when you first fire the motor up till the filter fills back up with oil, a good oil filter like a wix or a pure one wont do that .

JMO>Cp

[oldandtired]

Leave it to the miltary to buy the cheapest crap they can get there hands on.

JMO>Cp

But, I bet the taxpayers paid a premium price for them! I have seen this too many times. Dave

[TheRabbit]

Leave it to the miltary to buy the cheapest crap they can get there hands on.
I'll try to have faith though, maybe the plain white jane filters were WIX.

I think for the most part a everyday run if the mil street engine probably wouldn't be hurt by a fram but when you run a HV pump zing it up to 6500+ RPMS and use thick 20W50 oil is when it becomes a problem, their media cant handle that kinda flow and pressure and breaks down.
Not to mention their anti drain back valve never works, thats why you hear them rods clatter when you first fire the motor up till the filter fills back up with oil, a good oil filter like a wix or a pure one wont do that .

JMO>Cp

That's not the case with Fram. My 94 Chevy ( 350) with only 70k miles was bone stock when the Fram filter collasped.

[DirkaDirka]

Leave it to the miltary to buy the cheapest crap they can get there hands on.

JMO>Cp

But, I bet the taxpayers paid a premium price for them! I have seen this too many times. Dave

Trust me I have seen things that the Army pays an outragous price for. For example 1 rivet normally it is what maybe 25 cents. The Army will pay $1.50 for that same rivet.

[TheRabbit]

Leave it to the miltary to buy the cheapest crap they can get there hands on.

JMO>Cp

But, I bet the taxpayers paid a premium price for them! I have seen this too many times. Dave
[size=10]
Trust me I have seen things that the Army pays an outragous price for. For example 1 rivet normally it is what maybe 25 cents. The Army will pay $1.50 for that same rivet.
SSSSSHHHHH! Dont' tell everybody. My Stepmom owns a business and only sells to the US military. She buys parts and re-sells to Uncle Sam. Since the Iraq war her business has been booming!! Sorry had to say it.

[lively]

PELOSI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN'T BE HER--TELL ME IT AIN'T HER :shock: :shock: :shock:
ONLY KIDDIN
LIVELY

[MEMRACING62]

if pelosi were selling oil filters fram would be a better choice. with the pelosi filter all you would have is an empty can :shock: :shock:

[fla1976]

Nahh, it would be full of hot air! :P

[DirkaDirka]

:lol: :lol: :lol: You guys are bad. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cepx111]

Leave it to the miltary to buy the cheapest crap they can get there hands on.
I'll try to have faith though, maybe the plain white jane filters were WIX.

I think for the most part a everyday run if the mil street engine probably wouldn't be hurt by a fram but when you run a HV pump zing it up to 6500+ RPMS and use thick 20W50 oil is when it becomes a problem, their media cant handle that kinda flow and pressure and breaks down.
Not to mention their anti drain back valve never works, thats why you hear them rods clatter when you first fire the motor up till the filter fills back up with oil, a good oil filter like a wix or a pure one wont do that .

JMO>Cp

That's not the case with Fram. My 94 Chevy ( 350) with only 70k miles was bone stock when the Fram filter collasped.

Sorry to hear that, yet another example of how their filters have failed.

I used to run them years ago before I was in the know, liek I'm sure alot have.

Back then to me a filter was a filter, never really put much thought into it.
Hell, coming from an era in which I drove and worked on air cooled Volkswagens exclusively and their motors didnt even have a filter, I was sure any kinda of spin on filter had to be a great improvement over that.

I wouldn't put one on my lawn mower now.

JMP>Cp

[TheYellaBrick]

Nah- Nah, it'd be full of SCHITT !! :evil: :evil: :evil:

[superbadass532]

Hey guys..... Thanks for all of the great feedback! If you haven't noticed this thread has had the most action out of all the threads on this site! That has to say something. I didn't win my case against fram but if this thread can tell just a few people about those poor quality filters and save someone else from engine failure then me losing in court may have been worth it..... WELL MAYBE?? Something that really got to me this weekend was I was watching the NHRA races in North Carolina and the winner of top fuel had Fram plastered all over his car,truck,hats,helmet in his cockpit every where!! These guys are so big they don't care about the little guys. I don't know if you guys know but Fram is owned by one of the biggest corporations in the world , Honeywell!! Now you know why the US government uses them!! Everybody that reads this thread do me and yourself a favor.......... if you get a chance find an old fram filter don't buy one (I won't give those SOB's another dime of my money) then buy a Wix or Napa then cut them open (If you have a oil filter cutter would be best) and make you own comparison! Let me know what you find? The Fram IS JUNK !!!

[cepx111]

My neighbor is a IT guy for Autozone, he came by last weekend and told me they were running a special on a oil change, 5 quarts of Valvoline and a fram filter, I laughed and said, no thx...

As I watched the Carolina nationals this weekend, everywhere you looked fram, giant fram filter in the background, people holding up fram signs on raceday NHRA is eat up with it.

Just goes to show that sponsorship and advertising will get you customers regardless of how good your product is.

And the icing on the cake, Cory mac and the fram sponsored dragster of team Schumacher won.

Wonder how many folks after watching the show were thinking, man I need to go out and by a fram filter! If they only knew......



JMO, Cp

[bluegrassjh]

P.S. I lost my filter wrench so I now use my teeth. Here I thought I was the only one who used their teeth.

I have always used Fram..ALWAYS. But after reading this you can bet your bottom dollar I will never use another Fram product!

[wildchild22]

didnt bother readin through the 10 pages so sorry if someone already asked. But what fram filters are you guys having problems with. The only problem ive ever seen is my uncle stuck a short extra guard on his 555 just to start it up for a quick break in so he didnt have to put a big dent in his headers. But long story short it basically imploded the inside of the filter and crushed it like a soda can. But i've never seen or heard any problems about the HP filters. Used them for years and know hundreds of people that use them.

[BEAST477]

didnt bother readin through the 10 pages so sorry if someone already asked. But what fram filters are you guys having problems with. The only problem ive ever seen is my uncle stuck a short extra guard on his 555 just to start it up for a quick break in so he didnt have to put a big dent in his headers. But long story short it basically imploded the inside of the filter and crushed it like a soda can. But i've never seen or heard any problems about the HP filters. Used them for years and know hundreds of people that use them.

I suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning. It will make you think twice before using a Fram ever again.

[DirkaDirka]

X2

Go read the entire thread. I used to be a die hard Fram Filter guy. I figured if it was good enough for John Force it was good enough for me. :twisted: :twisted: Now I am going to be switching to Wix as soon as I get home.

[TheRabbit]

didnt bother readin through the 10 pages so sorry if someone already asked. But what fram filters are you guys having problems with. The only problem ive ever seen is my uncle stuck a short extra guard on his 555 just to start it up for a quick break in so he didnt have to put a big dent in his headers. But long story short it basically imploded the inside of the filter and crushed it like a soda can. But i've never seen or heard any problems about the HP filters. Used them for years and know hundreds of people that use them.

For me it was my 94 Silverado bone stock motor less than 100,000 ( I think it was around 85k) miles and the filter collasped. I was drving home from Atlanta but was only a few miles from my shop (where I worked) when it happened. The motor would still run, but it knocked pretty bad when you started it or put a load on it. I did call fram, they wanted the filter back, but I sold the truck and never sent the filter to them. I wish I would have.

The HP filters may be good. I've never cut one open, but I'm not gonna buy anything from Fram so it doesn't matter. Buy a Wix instead!!

[MEMRACING62]

2006 chevy trailblazer 60000 miles. 2000 miles into oil change filter collapsed. warning system saved the engine!! they dont just fail in race cars. fram sucks!! as for nhra they would endorse sodium silicate for motor oil if there is enough sponsorship money.

[bluenova71]

Used to be a die hard fram guy also had one collaps in the semi final of a bracket race in round robin oil presure warning light saved the motor but i never ran fram again switched to pure one never had another problem

[superbadass532]

For me its way past the if its an HP Fram or the standard Fram........ They aren't an honest company!!!!!!!!! They know they have a problem with their filters and they are so big they just dare you to take them to court! Bottom line...... They just don't give a good shxx about the little guy!!!!!!!! :x

[DJ35]

I have a chevy small block with 60 psi oil pressure, oil pressure started dropping, changed fram filter to wix and oil pressure came back up! 2 weeks later at the track a friend complained his oil pressure was dropping so i asked what kind of filter he had. Of course he said fram. I told him to try another filter and he did, oil pressure returned to normal.

[Scooterz]

For me its way past the if its an HP Fram or the standard Fram........ They aren't an honest company!!!!!!!!! They know they have a problem with their filters and they are so big they just dare you to take them to court! Bottom line...... They just don't give a good shxx about the little guy!!!!!!!! :x

X2!! I have never had one fail, but I am DONE with them. At the very least, someone should take the corporate Fram lawyer out in the alley & beat him down a few times... they have no regard for the consumer/end user. Ultimately, their customer base is the dealer anyways. Luckily, I have never had a Fram on a HP motor!!

[cepx111]

Yes.

The HP filters fail too.
Samething engine starts to lose oil pressure for no apparent reason, friend of mine ran them exclusively on his BBC, after having this happen with several NEW HP filters he switched to a purolator filter and the problem went away.

Spread the word.

Tell everybody you know how crappy their filters are and too STOP using them, when the word gets out to enough people they will have no choice but to improve their product.

JMO, Cp

[dragrace333]

i have had couple explode on start up use wix now

[crewcab632]

Wish I would have read this thread before I put a Fram filter on my 598 in my 96 S-10. It "sucked" the guts out of the filter. Getting ready to tear the motor down, real soon.

[DirkaDirka]

Wish I would have read this thread before I put a Fram filter on my 598 in my 96 S-10. It "sucked" the guts out of the filter. Getting ready to tear the motor down, real soon.

It's all good just as long as it didnt mess up the motor.

[TheRabbit]

Clevite's H-series moly-graphite TriArmor bearings and a oil pressure dummy light are a good investment for keeping your engine alive after an oil system failure.

As far as a filters go wix on the hotrod and pure one on the wifes car.


And for your situation with fram I would call a lawyer that specializes in sueing corporations for not supplying certain warnings or information on their products to prevent damage to the property they are being used with.

These off the shelf type filters should have a simple warning like "not for use on modified engines"

And SAE oil containers should have a simple warning like "not compatable with flat tappet camshafts"

Fram filters will fail on a STOCK MOTOR, not just on modified engines engines.

Wish I would have read this thread before I put a Fram filter on my 598 in my 96 S-10. It "sucked" the guts out of the filter. Getting ready to tear the motor down, real soon.

I thought everybody already knew FRAM OIL FILTERS SUCK!

[kickin472]

Years ago on my racing engines I use to use fram, had no issues. When the season was over and it was time to get the engine refreshened and my engine builder seen the fram he had a talk with me about fram and it was all bad. So I went to K&N heard some bad stories with them here recently. I've had no issues, I think I have been very lucky and maybe its because we mud drag race and its only for 2-3 seconds a pass 1-2 passes on the weekend.
My engine builder likes wix and he has talked me into the Hastings filter, what do you guys think about that filter? Not trying to hyjack the thread but trying to find out whats good and bad.

Anthony

[cepx111]

Wix is a quality filter as is a hasting, might even be one in the same.
The Napa brand is another good one, it is just a wix in disguise.

Purolator makes a dam good one too, the purolator pur one is the one I use on my racecar.

Re-cap:

Purolator > good
Wix > good
Napa > good
Hastings > good

Fram > NOT good



JMO, Cp

[im4irl]

Wix, Carquest, and NAPA are the same filter...

[MEMRACING62]

THE GOOD STUFF :D 8)

[Scooterz]

"So I went to K&N heard some bad stories with them here recently".

Much like Oil, everyone has opinion/bad story or knows someone who has a bad story about a filter such as a K & N for example. I have used the K & N on my last 2 oil changes & had zero problems... been lucky too.

On thing I do know, the lowest form of life is a FRAM corporate lawyer... the only lower thing in life is a FRAM filter... after that, you have Obama.

[altailites]

What about the fram HP6 big dia filter? I ran one on my old turbo motor and never had a problem with it . oil pressure was always around 85psi during the run

[TheRabbit]

What about the fram HP6 big dia filter? I ran one on my old turbo motor and never had a problem with it . oil pressure was always around 85psi during the run

Why would you want to run any Fram filter if you know they have so many problems and you know that Wix (or a few other brands) do not have any problems??
Bottom line for me is I WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING FRAM and why should I take a chance? My Wix filter, part # 51016R is proven!
BTW. my oil pressure in my stock '94 350 was always around 45psi until the last few miles that it dropped to less than 5psi because of FRAM.

[fastguy1]

I've been using fram racing filters, not the stock ones and have had no problems with them in 10 years.

[TheYellaBrick]

You must be living right !! :D :D :D

[superbadass532]

You might want to read the rest of this thread and then even though you have able to run Fram for as long as you have you just might change your mind!

[MEMRACING62]

any questions about fram answered here. TTT

[Guber2]

I had an old guy tell me once "a piss poor mechanic blames his equipment. :wink:

[Guber2]

I had an old guy tell me once "a piss poor mechanic blames his equipment. :wink:

A filer only keeps the big piece's out :wink:

[mytmouz]

I had an old guy tell me once "a piss poor mechanic blames his equipment. :wink:

A filer only keeps the big piece's out :wink:

And a filer makes big pieces... :wink:

[TheRabbit]

I had an old guy tell me once "a piss poor mechanic blames his equipment. :wink:

The good thing for Fram is I can NEVER blame it on one of their filters again because I will NEVER put a Fram filter on any of my motors again.

[gearhead1011]

I had an old guy tell me once "a piss poor mechanic blames his equipment. :wink:

A filer only keeps the big piece's out :wink:

A collapsed filter also keeps the oil out and actually the screen on the pick-up tube keeps the big pieces out.

An engine with quite a few miles on it will have a certain amount of junk in the crankcase. When the filter has collapsed it not only is lowering the amount of oil the engine gets, but the majority of the oil that is circulating is doing so through the open by-pass. So instead of getting a decent volume of clean oil for the bearings, you are getting an inadequate amount of dirty oil.

If filtering an engine's oil isn't important then why do all modern engines have one? Maybe it's just there so the piss-poor mechanics have something to blame their mistakes on.

[jaxsmith]

Fram Racing Filters are GOOD Quality units. The only filter I have had issues with was a Purolator Pure One. I have cut many filters apart and the Fram racing filter or Wix racing filter is all I would ever consider running. I personally run Fram racing filters on my car. The cores are metal screen instead of carboard and welded to the metal end caps rather than glued with a heavy gauge can. Cut a few apart and you will see who makes a good filter. The Fram racing filter is a good unit. I dont work for Fram and I dont get paid to put this on here but if you would compare the insides you would clearly see they are superior.

Again, dont buy the "standard" filter and put it on a HP engine and expect it to work. Most of us run our engines with the bypass blocked so be ready for filter failure if you are going to run a standard filter.

The first thing most people consider when buying a race pump is Volume and Pressure. You buy High Volume, High Pressure pumps and put in an engine with a blocked bypass and then you have to deal with 100% filtration and higher volume and pressure on a filter that was designed for 30 psi and 50% filtration. Even the best standard duty filters were not designed for 75-80 psi at the flow rates we are talking about.

We gripe and complain about a $3 filter when for less than $9 you can put a good one on it. The best bearings and oil in the world will not protect an engine with a collapsed filter. No filter and a screen would be a better option for us than a cheap filter.

[gearhead1011]

Jaxsmith, the problem I have with fram is they make a junk product that fails and causes engine damage on a stock daily driver and refuse to make good on the damage their product causes. I personally refuse to support a company like that.

[jaxsmith]

I understand your feelings 100%. All the major companies that put out these big product warranty type claims have a 100 page disclosure full of weasel clauses. I personally run the Fram on my brides ride and have for 100,000 miles. It now has 186,000 on it.

We all get shafted from time to time. I once bought an AC Delco Fuel pump from a parts house instead of a GM Dealer. I bought this because of the "Lifetime Warranty" GM was advertising. Eighteen months later I had to buy another because my parts house warranty ran out at twelve months. I was pi**ed!

I think about this subject every month when I buy that new Fram filter.

[BuckeyeShaker]

superbadass468,
Was your fram filter a PH13 or a PH4? Just curious. Thank's

[Scooterz]

I have not had a Fram fail like some of these horrific stories, but I stay away from them for the reason gearhead101 sites....

It is like this: If you want a cheesburger, there is a pretty good chance you might buy it from McDonalds right??? Does not mean it will be a good cheeseburger... but they sure make most of them in a day... so you buy it.

Screw FRAM if they lawyer-up everytime thier product fails. That money damn sure could have went into new R&D to prevent these failures... or it could have paid for the customers blown motor they caused.... instead they lawyer up... that speaks VOLUMES about a company.

[Tod74]

If you read the links MEM posted it says that FRAM does not actually make oil filters.They haven't in years. I suspect,like everyone else these days,they sourced out to the cheapest vendor.You get what you pay for.

[shybx1969]

If you read the links MEM posted it says that FRAM does not actually make oil filters.They haven't in years. I suspect,like everyone else these days,they sourced out to the cheapest vendor.You get what you pay for.Wouldnt you think they would wake up!!!!And get the quality back....or did they ever have it???When i was a kid in the 60s/70s they were thought of as top of the line...at least in my area..you guys remember the commercial w/the mechanic..pay me now or..... :roll:

[gearhead1011]

I think RJ should make this thread a sticky and maybe a link to the engine section. We could link other threads like this one http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=15269&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 and maybe help some guys avoid the expensive lesson some of have had to learn.

[dartsteve]

never ever turn damaged parts over the the manufacture. they will destroy the evidence.