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View Full Version : Paranoid about lifters

promodjohn
08-06-2008, 09:06 AM
I asked your opinions on valve springs before now I,d like your input on lifters but first I,d like to share a story with you.
6 years ago when i sold everything and stopped racing what motivated me to throw in the towel was the destruction of a high end engine due to lifter failure.It was a 555 with Dart 360 heads.A lifter on #3 intake valve broke and stuck open,piston hit it broke spring and dropped the valve.Iam sure you know the rest of the story.The motor only had 38 passes on it and everything was new.too this day I don't know if the problem was the lifter or the lifter bore,but thats why I,am paranoid about lifters.
I am building a big inch motor now with 18* dart big chief heads no spray
single carb. I am going to spin it 7100 r.p.m. in a 2700 pound car. I would like your thoughts on this matter.
hammertime
08-06-2008, 09:41 AM
I asked your opinions on valve springs before now I,d like your input on lifters but first I,d like to share a story with you.
6 years ago when i sold everything and stopped racing what motivated me to throw in the towel was the destruction of a high end engine due to lifter failure.It was a 555 with Dart 360 heads.A lifter on #3 intake valve broke and stuck open,piston hit it broke spring and droped the valve.Iam sure you know the rest of the story.The motor only had 38 passes on it and everything was new.too this day I don't know if the problem was the lifter or the lifter bore,but thats why I,am paranoid about lifters.
I am building a big inch motor now with 18* dart big chief heads no spray
single carb. I am going to spin it 7100 r.p.m. in a 2700 pound car. I would like your thoughts on this matter.


Morel Lifters by far the best lifter on the market. I know people who get 350 passes a year on these in duke/chief motors. All other brands I've seen that get raced hard need replaced mid season, specially on a 18 degree motor they are a lot harder on parts.
bjuice
08-06-2008, 10:03 AM
You should be very PARANOID about lifters......

i also destroyed a very strong running 511ci this past March 2008. ( broken lifter)

roller ball broke off the lifter on the #1 exhaust , wiping out cam and block

car never mis-fired etc...it just became lazy....i am sure it was just a matter of time ( seconds/minutes) before the engine just seized up but i discovered it in the pitts before it got the chance...

Now $6200 later i almost have my new 565ci back with Dart Big "m" Block,new cam,lifters,rods and pistons from PAR engines...

i could have done without it.....my 511 was just fine..



whats so scary to me is that i do not know of any way to detect a lifter about to dump on you unlike detecting a weak valve spring etc.....

Sorry to hear about your loss but i relate all to well.

thanks
hammertime
08-06-2008, 10:07 AM
You should be very PARANOID about lifters......

i also destroyed a very strong running 511ci this past March 2008. ( broken lifter)

roller ball broke off the lifter on the #1 exhaust , wiping out cam and block

car never mis-fired etc...it just became lazy....i am sure it was just a matter of time ( seconds/minutes) before the engine just seized up but i discovered it in the pitts before it got the chance...

Now $6200 later i almost have my new 565ci back with Dart Big "m" Block,new cam,lifters,rods and pistons from PAR engines...

i could have done without it.....my 511 was just fine..



whats so scary to me is that i do not know of any way to detect a lifter about to dump on you unlike detecting a weak valve spring etc.....

Sorry to hear about your loss but i relate all to well.

thanks

Good to see ya back Brian

I've alwasy heard when valve lash really starts to move a lot a lifter is about to go ? Now how much truth there is in this I do not know, I've had lifter failure before without notice cost me a lot of time/money also. Now when I change the oil I get a flash light and look down in the heads to make sure everything I can atlesat see is good. I've been running the morels for 2 years now and my motor guy said I didnt need to replace last winter but I do every year for peace of mind.
gimmemud
08-06-2008, 10:19 AM
http://bulletcams.com/FeaturedProducts/FeaturedProducts.html

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/gimmemud/VL133RH.jpg


These are one of the best made, I run them with almost 1200lbs open pressure and 9000-9500 rpm with no problems.
hammertime
08-06-2008, 10:26 AM
any idea who makes them for Bullet ?
gimmemud
08-06-2008, 11:03 AM
They are made by US Tool and Die (I think thats the name), they make them for morel also I was told.
hammertime
08-06-2008, 11:17 AM
They are made by US Tool and Die (I think thats the name), they make them for morel also I was told.

I thought maybe so, I have 3 sets of Morels one has the Lunati name the other have PBM name, the PBM's carry a lot less price for the same lifter. I have had a few friends switch and love them so far. Look like new after a year of racing.
altereddoug
08-06-2008, 01:14 PM
I found out why you use QUALITY lifters two years ago. I used a set of herbert .300 longer roller lifters on just a .746 lift cam. Brand new motor and it lasted 45 minutes. After the warm up I revved it to 3500 and then a awful squeal and shut it out and then a bang. It pushed the camshaft out the front of the motor. Had a billet
cover and timing chain, bent 5 valves. Luckily thats when it did it. After changing cams,timing chains, then going to gear drive, tearing apart the engine to see if the block was screwed up, since it was new. Could not find anything wrong. So I installed the cam and loaded the lifters. then actually saw where it was shoving the camshaft forward.?????? (with a dial indicator) Anyway What I found was that when the camshaft was on base circle on one side and the other on max lift the horz. bar was binding up and twisting the lifter in the bore. Put a set of hippo lifters in and never a problem since... That mistake only cost me around 1800.00....so what did I save?

Save money now.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FAT622
08-06-2008, 07:57 PM
Who are crane and comp made by? should i sell them now? :?
hammertime
08-06-2008, 08:41 PM
Who are crane and comp made by? should i sell them now? :?

A lot of comps are made here locally in the town I live in. I can bascially get them free and wont touch them. All lifter failure I've had in the past all Comps, same with other local racers.
Tod74
08-08-2008, 06:30 AM
I had a comp lifter break after only 23 passes in my 454....lost the whole motor. cracked the block between the lifter bores. I have the Crane ultra pros now...they look beefy..anyone know who makes them?

The engine I lost was my first motor with a solid roller...I ran the valves that day right before we loaded up...they were all exactly like I had set them except one....guess which one broke. live and learn. Had I more experience that would have been a huge red flag,but I thought nothing of it and just adjusted it. When we got to the track the car was 1 or 2 tenths slower than the week before and got slower every pass(another clue I should have caught) I blamed it on the heat....fifth pass kaboom. :(
BEAST477
08-08-2008, 04:21 PM
Crane Ultra Pros are suppose to be made by morel. Any body tried the new Isky Red Zones without the needle bearings?
Tod74
08-08-2008, 04:32 PM
Crane Ultra Pros are suppose to be made by morel. Any body tried the new Isky Red Zones without the needle bearings?

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10745&highlight=isky

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9782&highlight=redzone

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6350&highlight=redzone

probably more threads over there besides those... :)
BEAST477
08-08-2008, 05:19 PM
Thanks Tod. Gives me more to think about. Mike
olds48
08-10-2008, 06:37 AM
I got Comps.Now I'm scared :shock: My buddy's Crowers came apart just a little while ago with only 20 -25 passes on it!He only had 600# of open spring pressure
FAT622
08-10-2008, 02:52 PM
who sells Morel or PBM?, not going to take the risk with the comp set i have
hammertime
08-10-2008, 03:15 PM
who sells Morel or PBM?, not going to take the risk with the comp set i have

PBM sells PBM

Morel sells Morel, but Morel sells to a lot of others also, I know the pro series Lunati's are Morel for sure. PBM same lifter for a lot less $
FAT622
08-10-2008, 06:15 PM
Does PBM Have a web site?
hammertime
08-10-2008, 07:06 PM
http://www.pbmperformance.com/index.php
Tod74
08-10-2008, 07:36 PM
I got Comps.Now I'm scared :shock: My buddy's Crowers came apart just a little while ago with only 20 -25 passes on it!He only had 600# of open spring pressure

Which comps do you have? I had the cheapest ones..like 240 bucks...and this was several years ago too...The Cranes I have in there now were $514
olds48
08-11-2008, 04:22 AM
The Comps I have are part # 819-16.Of course my spring pressure is only 435# open.And that's with a solid roller :D
olds48
08-11-2008, 04:28 AM
Checked their site.PBM lifters for bbc solid roller,$300.Not bad at all.
hammertime
08-11-2008, 07:19 AM
Checked their site.PBM lifters for bbc solid roller,$300.Not bad at all.

Not bad at all, my best advice on them is this if you put a ton of passes on yearly and dont replace them but every few get the Pro Series if you dont put a lot of passes on or replace them yearly get the cheaper ones. I have a set of both not a lot of difference but there is some, extra oiling holes and the pro series I bieleve is rebuildable.
hammertime
08-11-2008, 09:34 AM
I have some pics of the PBM lifter I will post after a bit here got to get them on www first