Alcohol and Nitromethane

[talgregory]

i like to try some nitro with my alcohol injection . do i need to change anything and what percent should i start with ?

[suicidebomb]

Spud Miller @ www.fuelinjectionent.com , he can help you.

[DejavuRacing]

Be careful man that stuff is crazy but good.

[LuckyDawgRacing]

I tried the same thing on 5% and it was a waste of $ at that rate

[ARUSSELL]

I have run nitro occasionally and know that the fuel delivery has to be increaced and nitro likes timing!!!!

[talgregory]

i stated with 20% nitro that stuff work. it will make one GO!!! 8)

[slowmotion]

From http://nostalgiaracing.proboards57.com/index.cgi?board=tlp&action=display&thread=713


Pull a couple hundred dollars out of the bank and burn it too see if it is fun. Then do it again. If it is still fun poor some money, or I mean nitro in the tank

And

Now here is the first thing you need to do. Go to the bank, get $10,000.00 in fives, tens, twentys and 100's. Stand in front of the toilet, start with the 5's, work you way up through the 100's. When you have flushed them all down the toilet and not flinched your almost ready to go.

:lol:

[nofear57]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: !!!!!!!!!!! Man I can't stop laughing :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[kwkracing]

well i borrowed the 10,000.00 today, but since i have a septic system, i should be able to recover my money after flushing it. Lol!

[talgregory]

ha ha 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Tod74]

From http://nostalgiaracing.proboards57.com/index.cgi?board=tlp&action=display&thread=713


Pull a couple hundred dollars out of the bank and burn it too see if it is fun. Then do it again. If it is still fun poor some money, or I mean nitro in the tank

And

Now here is the first thing you need to do. Go to the bank, get $10,000.00 in fives, tens, twentys and 100's. Stand in front of the toilet, start with the 5's, work you way up through the 100's. When you have flushed them all down the toilet and not flinched your almost ready to go.

:lol:

You just described race cars in general didn't you? :lol:

[bbchevy]

From http://nostalgiaracing.proboards57.com/index.cgi?board=tlp&action=display&thread=713


Pull a couple hundred dollars out of the bank and burn it too see if it is fun. Then do it again. If it is still fun poor some money, or I mean nitro in the tank

And

Now here is the first thing you need to do. Go to the bank, get $10,000.00 in fives, tens, twentys and 100's. Stand in front of the toilet, start with the 5's, work you way up through the 100's. When you have flushed them all down the toilet and not flinched your almost ready to go.

:lol:

You just described race cars in general didn't you? :lol:
Not in GENERAL?
Fuel Racing,the Ten Grand is just a Scratch of the SURFACE!!!
When you come back from a Run,and Drop the Diaper,and all of the Rotating Assemblys is Located in the Diaper?You go Into the Trailer and get another BULLET(Witout a FLINCH)Then your Ready????????????
Later
G 8)

[ashbros]

Slowmotion your the man!!!!!!!!!!

Results with nitro will not be realized until you start using 15 - 25%, but do not used more than 35% or all you will get to do is turn the engine over about 3 times.

Increase fuel, Did I say increase fuel, Yes I did. An engine on nitro is like a crackhead on crack. Can't get enough to fuel the habit.

Just to let you know, If you mix properly you might get 3 to 4 runs on your motor before you see it in your rear view mirror.

Check out this link. Slightly modified stock combo on nitro, alcohol and a lil 144 blower Nothing special but she is hauling By the way we had to put her down after 4 runs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot6TzQ0y-qY

[quick8dragster07]

Does anyone else have a really good knowledge of the nitro, and what percentage will hurt the rods/crank? I think we could see results around 15-20%, but what about at 40lbs of boost? How much do you have to advance your timing? I have a 20 mag, and set pretty high for blower application, would just hate to push my bottom end out though.. BTW THAT SITE WAS VERY HELPFUL! Thanks, Matt

[bjuice]

I do not think Anyone has an answer as to how much Nitro will it take to hurt the bottom end..Not trying to sound smart but you will know when its much too late.
What many people don't understand about Nitro ( except people who do) is the Burn rate on this stuff.. With Gas/Alcohol you have an explosion basically like a hammer pushing the piston down...The Nitro will keep exploding ( expanding) the full length of the stroke and will try to push the pistons thru the bottom of the oil pan..thats where your rotation of the crank comes in..so guess what takes the brunt of this Massive force...Yep .....rods,pistons,crank etc...

This is one of the arguments the NHRA Funny car guys are having for wanting to run a Bigger Percent % of Nitro..they claim they can lower their static compression therefore lessoning the amount of hit ( hammer effect) at the top of the stroke..therefore saving engine parts...

this touches your question about 40 lbs of boost etc...OF course i cannot compare my stuff to their stuff ( NHRA)..i can't speak for you or anyone else.

Myself Being a 3 time owner of Alcohol Blown Injected cars i would recommend leaving the Nitro ALONE...If you got a Big ( Good) enough Roots type blower to pump that boost over the 30/35lb mark..your gonna have enough challanges keeping it together....Then again if ya JUST GOTTA know 1st hand of NITRO..there is no better experience than the school of hard Knocks ( no pun intended)..lol :D


IMO.

Brian

[nofear57]

If you really want to talk to someone about it,try Classic Funny Cars Forum someone there might tell you more. If you do let us know what you found out.

[spudmiller]

If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right.

Nitromethane is an extremely cost effective way to make economical parts and pieces perform like you wouldn't believe. The tone here seems to be that one would be foolish to run it and it would be like setting fire to good money. My sentiments are pretty much the opposite...buy the good liquid and feed it right to go fast instead of spending bucks on trick parts made out of unobtainium. Also, parts designed for brute strength are cheaper than trick, lightweight, canted-valve, jewelry. So, buy for strength and dump in more juice.

I ran an extremely cheap small block chevy for 5 seasons with almost no maintenance. Same bearings, same rings...I finally wore out the bores and retired it for new iron. It was running when I shut it off. In fact, its last pass was a final round appearance. Hundreds and hundreds of passes on 50-75% nitro. I did need to put two new pistons in it once due to over revving it on the burn out. Changed head gaskets a couple of times until I learned what worked. That's it. No trick parts or pieces and I was able to beat up pretty well on blown alcohol motors. It won many rounds, won quite a few events and I didn't spend a ton of money.

Spud Miller
www.onehotchilipepper.com

[dparker]

What track did you do all this winning on Nitro? Do they have a website???

[bjuice]

with all due respect Mr Miller but i STRONGLY disagree with your Verison of Nitro..i know Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and i feel advising someone they can/should run 50%-75% nitro in a bracket series car and expect it to live for hundreds of passes is Not good advise ( IMO).

A question for you ?..How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky..and i assure you their parts are built for strength. :roll:

[zipper06]

with all due respect Mr Miller but i STRONGLY disagree with your Verison of Nitro..i know Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and i feel advising someone they can/should run 50%-75% nitro in a bracket series car and expect it to live for hundreds of passes is Not good advise ( IMO).

A question for you ?..How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky..and i assure you their parts are built for strength. :roll:

Hey BJ and Dparker,

Spud Miller writes the book on nitro, He owns http://fuelinjectionent.com/, and does lots of writing on HRE forum in the fuel injection forum. You have to be a member of HRE to view that part of the HRE forums.
Trust me he knows his chit when it comes to injection and Nitro, and has along list of accomplishments. He runs a very near 200 MPH front engine nostalgia dragster, with a S/BLK all steel, it was a 360" motor with stacks injection, i think in 2009 it is going to be a 388" motor all steel with stacks, and probably in the 6 second range, since it was already down in the botom half of the 7's.

JMO

Zip.

[dparker]

If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right.

Nitromethane is an extremely cost effective way to make economical parts and pieces perform like you wouldn't believe. The tone here seems to be that one would be foolish to run it and it would be like setting fire to good money. My sentiments are pretty much the opposite...buy the good liquid and feed it right to go fast instead of spending bucks on trick parts made out of unobtainium. Also, parts designed for brute strength are cheaper than trick, lightweight, canted-valve, jewelry. So, buy for strength and dump in more juice.

I ran an extremely cheap small block chevy for 5 seasons with almost no maintenance. Same bearings, same rings...I finally wore out the bores and retired it for new iron. It was running when I shut it off. In fact, its last pass was a final round appearance. Hundreds and hundreds of passes on 50-75% nitro. I did need to put two new pistons in it once due to over revving it on the burn out. Changed head gaskets a couple of times until I learned what worked. That's it. No trick parts or pieces and I was able to beat up pretty well on blown alcohol motors. It won many rounds, won quite a few events and I didn't spend a ton of money.

Spud Miller
www.onehotchilipepper.com

In all repect Zip, Since he is very efficient with nitro its only makes this statement worse. "If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right."

I took this off www.onehotchilipepper.com :

1.) Things are looking up in Chili Pepper land. After wrecking a crankshaft on the initial fireup last month, things are rumbling again with a brand new crank balanced at the last minute, put in some hours helping to get the powerplant back together, mounted in the chassis and reconnected. Our fireup in the driveway went much better than before

2.) Apparently, something in the Powerglide transmission was really mad and wanted out. The case was severly split and a big chunk of aluminum was laying on the floorpan with oil gushing out of the gaping hole. It appears as though we found another weak link

3.) We worked like dogs three long days in a row to get the car all put together and ready to fire. She started right up and sounded great! Unfortunately, the oil drained out sparkly, dark and burned

4.) So, after a week off, we will pull the motor, tear it down, put new bearings in it and maybe a new crank. We may take the tranny to our expert tranny guy for inspection. Then we'll put it back together and find a good weekend to test and upgrade my licens

5.) We seem to be having an issue with the new rings seating on cylinder #4 & 6 and are getting a bunch of oil in those cylinders. The poor seal is also letting a lot of fuel by and into the oil

6.)Our streak of bad luck at Bremerton continues. We've ruined engines, spun bearings, broke output shafts and now red lit in the first round at the historic old strip. We have won events there but usually not without mishap

7.) On the second qualifier, I nailed it as the tree lit yellow. I felt and heard a loud "POP!" as though something broke. I lifted figuring I was blowing oil all over the track. As I pulled the car over to the side I revved the motor a couple of times

8.) I noticed lots of aluminum on the #6 spark plug and knew something was wrong. No smoke, so away we went for the final round

I guess my perception of "If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right." is just different than everybody elses.

IMO Nitro makes HP but not without side effects.
If the professor of Nitro is having some side effects with the use of Nitro, why would we tell others that might not be as knowledgible about Nitro that it does cause more engine part failures if you do it right.

IMO it would be like putting John Forces setup in my car and not expecting anymore problems than I have with just alcohol injection. I'm sorry but I don't agree with the post. I just don't think its even close to being accurate. :? :? :?

[zipper06]

IMO it would be like putting John Forces setup in my car and not expecting anymore problems than I have with just alcohol injection. I'm sorry but I don't agree with the post. I just don't think its even close to being accurate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hehe, couldn't you put JF's setup in your car and make it run :lol: ,

I wouldn't even know how to fire it up. :oops:

Zip.

[dparker]

HeHe, I guess using John Force was a little over the top. :lol: :lol: :wink:

[spudmiller]

Items 1-5 above had nothing to do with nitro at all. Did you read the stuff in between the comments you lifted? Engine assembly error. Tranny was worn out. A stock case with about a zillion passes on it from 5 different owners. Nothing lasts forever even if you're running butane.

Item #6 above refers to our first season where WE WEREN'T DOING IT RIGHT and there was no one offering answers. I learned by doing. My "nitro notes" has photos of broken main caps and other carnage from that first year. All told, probably $1,500 in damage. Not too bad because my stuff is cheap. Some of the blown guys I run with that have more in pulleys than that :) #6 was really about the red light. Not nitro's fault.

Item #7 was not even a mechanical problem - driver error again. Nitro was not at fault there. I had a hangnail and bad breath that day too. Damned nitro :)

Item #8 was when I over revved it on the burn out for the first qualifying pass and hurt pistons. Driver error again. I went on to win the event anyway with a little smoke on the right side. Nitro had nothing to do with it. This disaster cost $263 in parts to fix. I spent more on motel rooms and tow-rig gas than that - my junk is not exotic. The winnings more than covered the parts.

Of course, you didn't cut and paste anything GOOD from my website. Now I know what it feels like to have comments taken out of context, and listed all together so that someone can try to make their case and be right. Good job!

Take the combination you are running right now with race gas or methanol and spend enough on shiny new parts to make another 200-300 ft. lbs. of torque with it. You'll probably break trannies too and find the weak link in your setup eventually. So then would you declare the race gas evil? Methanol the nasty beast that breaks all your parts? No, you probably wouldn't. You'd think "Wow, tho$e part$ worked great - I'm making lot$ of power now!" What's the difference? The difference is how much you spent to go faster.

My point was (and still is) that if your goal is to make more power (which everyone seems to want to do) and the type of racing you do allows it (NHRA bracket racing does not allow nitro), then why wouldn't you put 30% in your tank and make an affordable couple of hundred foot pounds of torque? You could build a brand new bigger engine ($$$) to do that instead. Or put a blower on it ($$$$$) if you'd rather. If you think nitro is really that evil, then I'm certainly not here to change your mind. Lots of folks are curious however, and I encourage people to try it in lower percentages. It works.

Have fun,
Spud

[dparker]

I sorry I didn't pull any of the good stuff off your web page. In going thru your web site looks like you have done a great job running against some of the Goliths of the world. Looks like you even slayed a few. Which is what I love to do. I once won a race and had someone tell me a 2500.00 dollar car just out run a million dollars worth of cars. Kudos to you on that. I've just been lucky enough to have been able to step it up a bit in my old age.
Now getting back to the subject at hand. My dragster runs 7.70s without Nitro and weather your breaking parts due to what you call drivers error, old parts, slick track, red lites, or just not knowing what your doing with nitro at the time. You've still broke more parts in 2 years than I've broke in 10 years. and to tell someone that might not have your knowledge about nitro that it doesn't break anymore parts than without is ridicules.
So I still have to X2 Bjuice in his statement:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and i feel advising someone they can/should run 50%-75% nitro in a bracket series car and expect it to live for hundreds of passes is Not good advise ( IMO).

So have fun,
dparker

[spudmiller]

Mr. Juice,

I never advised anyone to run 50-75% in my previous post. Running a little bit is just fine, but I wouldn't say everyone should do that either. I don't think people running a "bracket series car" "can/should run 50-75%". Where does all this come from? Did I say that?

What is the "right direction" you're trying to steer people exactly? How you run your car? Should we all do that? You're right, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We're all pretty fond of how we do it, aren't we?

It's obvious from this thread that there is a lot of misinformation out there about nitro. Pardon me for trying to clear up old wives tales and myths when I see them. I assume most people would like facts and not fiction. Maybe some folks would like to hear about a different way to skin a cat!

As for your question: ("How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky")...

I run a small, naturally aspirated, injected nitro motor making about 980 HP and turning 7.30's.

Those guys are SUPERCHARGED, 90% nitro at tremendous boost levels making 6000+HP turning 4.40's. Big difference, that's how.

Spud

[spudmiller]

Mr. Parker,

...You've still broke more parts in 2 years than I've broke in 10 years.

And I'm going faster than you...that's what happens when you go nearly a half-second quicker. Buy enough parts to turn 7.300's with your dragster and I bet you find a part or two in there somewhere that wasn't up to the task if you do it twenty times. You'll replace those parts with better ones and then continue on to be a little quicker or faster if you like a challenge. Have you been doing 7.70's for 10 years now? Then you are by all means an expert on going 7.70 if you aren't breaking any parts.

...and to tell someone that might not have your knowledge about nitro that it doesn't break anymore parts than without is ridicules.

It isn't ridiculous. What is ridiculous is the myth that nitro is an evil substance that causes parts to evaporate and fail at an incredible rate (see earlier posts in this thread). And that one might as well light money on fire instead of use nitro at all. That is ridiculous and people who think that just don't know the subject at all. When it is presented as fact and someone who asks about it here is told this, it propagates the myth. That isn't "steering people in the right direction", that's misinformation.

Parts breakage is about exceeding the design limits of the parts. Don't go there, and you won't get into trouble. That has nothing to do with the fuel. Nitromethane, methanol, diesel, kerosene, lighter fluid - whatever you want to run. It'll fail if you make enough power to exceed what the parts can take.


So I still have to X2 Bjuice in his statement:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we are also on here to steer people in the right direction and I feel...

Well, excuse me for interfering with your efforts to keep everyone here going "the right direction". I guess I assumed some folks might be interested in other options along with some facts, advice and encouragement from someone that has actually been doing it.

So long,
Spud

[bjuice]

Mr. Juice,

I never advised anyone to run 50-75% in my previous post. Running a little bit is just fine, but I wouldn't say everyone should do that either. I don't think people running a "bracket series car" "can/should run 50-75%". Where does all this come from? Did I say that?

What is the "right direction" you're trying to steer people exactly? How you run your car? Should we all do that? You're right, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We're all pretty fond of how we do it, aren't we?

It's obvious from this thread that there is a lot of misinformation out there about nitro. Pardon me for trying to clear up old wives tales and myths when I see them. I assume most people would like facts and not fiction. Maybe some folks would like to hear about a different way to skin a cat!

As for your question: ("How do you manage to get HUNDREDS of passes on a nitro motor at 75% and the Funny car guys at 90% only manage to get two or three rounds if they are lucky")...

I run a small, naturally aspirated, injected nitro motor making about 980 HP and turning 7.30's.

Those guys are SUPERCHARGED, 90% nitro at tremendous boost levels making 6000+HP turning 4.40's. Big difference, that's how.

Spud

Never FAILS :!:

Someone can get on here and give their OPEN opinions but when they get another Opinion in the form of feedback they get all bent out of shape...Gezzz :roll: ..

Spud not all of us are professional's like yourself..with that said many people on here are LAYMEN of the sport and some ACTUALLY TRY WHAT THEY READ

I read your original post OVER AND OVER and i come to the same conclusion each time in that your post is very much leaning toward "its ok to run 50%-75" Nitro and Not hurt your motor cause i do it for hundreds of passes myself...What information does this spell for the LAYMEN...?.."It's ok to run 50%-75% Nitro for hundreds of passes with no issues..


so IN MY OPINION your post AT BEST was Mis-leading to the common racer..Maybe some other fuel experts followed you.

and NO i do not give advise and make claims as large as you did..cause i know people may try what they read. :shock:


AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION...so feel free to un-wad those panties

[spudmiller]

I like feedback. I even like some criticism. But I don't like people putting words in my mouth, or presenting things I've said out of context to attempt to discredit me like was done above. The wads you see in my panties are genuine.

It's really good the "laymen" here have you guys to interpret the various posts for them and tell them how foolish they'd be to go and try something so oh-my-gawd-dangerous-and-destructive.

You guys are right. Wild hooligans like me shouldn't hang out in a place like this practicing evil among the innocent. The solution obviously is for me to go away and let you guys go back to what you were doing here.

Have fun,
Spud

[dparker]

No you don't like feedback. And no is not that anyone is putting words in your mouth its that you wont take accountablity for what you've said here and on your website. The reason I joked around about John Force was because I saw it on your website:
"The new rules say anything goes...timers, computers, automated new fangled control gadgets, whatever you want to run. The driver still has to shift the car and launch the car, that's it. So, if John Force puts a 23T body on his funny car, he's welcome to run with us. Really. How's that for nostalgia?"

I've read your intial post at least 10 times and everytime I read it I'm thinking this is total BS. Then I read your web page and I can see your an accomplished racer in your field of racing. Then I see how many parts you've broke in the last 2 years and again I'm thinking total BS about your first post. You didn't even give one word of advice on what could go wrong or what you need to watch for. Shoot Its like changing valve covers, no worries. Dang, Ive put up a post and someone came back and showed my way wasn't best and I've wished I would have just keep that post to myself. But I didn't keep trying to defend that post.

And geez it not even that bad. But after each post you get angerier. Its your BS in your first post that started all this. But Ive seen this ego before though. Every area has a 7.00 to 7.70 blown or nostalgia class. And when they come in once or twice a year they think they own the track. They come to the track park however and/or wherever they want. Strut around like their top fuelers. A few years ago it was because they were faster, but now half of their qualifiers wouldn't even make the field if our everyday bracketracing dragsters entered. Ive been racing in this area for the last 30 years and have raced with most of these guys, and they never won until they put nitro or a blower on and start racing one of these classes.
Now that my panties are in a wad. I went to the web site where you went to the finals. Lets look at the final round, shall we.

Nostalgia B
W: George Moore, Redmond, OR ('23 T) .123, 8.159, 164.83 (7.99 dial).
R/U: Spud Miller, Philomath, OR ('08 Garys) .099, 7.310, 175.13 (7.33 dial).

The first thing that pops out is Nostalgia B. Hmm?
Well lets see I don't think a .099 would win many rounds anywhere else. I know it won't here. But it gets better, He only runs 10 mph slower than you but you still can't put a tire on him. He is over his dial by 17 hundreths and over 2 hundreths worse on the light. You had 2 tenths to put a tire on him and couldn't get it done. Where we race we call those type of racers DUCKS not wild hooligans.

Have Fun,
dparker

[onedragracer]

From http://nostalgiaracing.proboards57.com/index.cgi?board=tlp&action=display&thread=713


Pull a couple hundred dollars out of the bank and burn it too see if it is fun. Then do it again. If it is still fun poor some money, or I mean nitro in the tank

And

Now here is the first thing you need to do. Go to the bank, get $10,000.00 in fives, tens, twentys and 100's. Stand in front of the toilet, start with the 5's, work you way up through the 100's. When you have flushed them all down the toilet and not flinched your almost ready to go.

:lol:
X2 :!: :D

[quick8dragster07]

Mr. Parker,

[quote=dparker]...You've still broke more parts in 2 years than I've broke in 10 years.

And I'm going faster than you...that's what happens when you go nearly a half-second quicker. Buy enough parts to turn 7.300's with your dragster and I bet you find a part or two in there somewhere that wasn't up to the task if you do it twenty times. You'll replace those parts with better ones and then continue on to be a little quicker or faster if you like a challenge. Have you been doing 7.70's for 10 years now? Then you are by all means an expert on going 7.70 if you aren't breaking any parts.
************************************************** **********

I run 6.50 in a blown sbc all day long, and NEVER have a stock case 1.76 straight cut brake a case on me... knock on wood... But grow some balls and get a fast car before putting somone down for running 7.70's, when you're running 75% nitro and making how much? 960? I'm rolling over here... My "shiny new parts" is a USED 23* brodix headed 360, makin 1500. I think blowers are much safer than nitro ever thaught about being, just was intersted in maybe mixing a little... Listening to what happens to you though makes me think otherwise.

point is don'ttalk smack about somone you don't know spud, that would probably eat you for lunch :twisted:

[zipper06]

Hey,quick8dragster07

Got a question for you, are you running a stock block or did you have to go to an after market block to keep your's alive? I've got a 1471 blown small blk. on alcohol, it was a 358", now going to 383" also 23* Brodix heads going into my Anglia.

Zip.

[talgregory]

ok i know that some people donot like nitro :!: nitro works i use 25% . i have not had any problems useing nitro . if anyone has any :?: call mr miller i know that he know what he is talking about ?


talgregory

[quick8dragster07]

Hey Zip, I'm running a rocket block on mine, sorry I just checked my msgs.. Check your Pm's and you'll find the answer to your other questions.

Thanks, Matt

[bjuice]

ok i know that some people donot like nitro :!: nitro works i use 25% . i have not had any problems useing nitro . if anyone has any :?: call mr miller i know that he know what he is talking about .


talgregory


No question 25% probably works well...Bump it up to 75/80% and tell us how its working for you... :D

[ashbros]

Hey guys check the link out below.

Lil video showing before and after run on an old country road near our home.

From the age of 12 my boys grew up in a dyno shop playing with some pretty mean stuff.

The video will give you an idea of what they were able to do by the time they were 17 and 19.

You really don't start noticing any power gain until about 20%. Nitro loves fuel, timing and more fuel. Did I mention more fuel, More Fuel.

They had ran about 200 bottles of nitrous through the motor and figured the motor was just about gone so they had some fun with it. They were only able to make 4 runs before she started spitting parts.

http://www.racingjunk.com/video_gallery/60574

Hope you enjoy.

[Murff]

Well this was quitre a thread. Someone asks about running a little nitro, someone comes on here with a great deal of knowledge on the topic, and you guys run him out of here on a rail.

A couple of points I would like to make:

1. Anyone that just starts dumping nitro into their tank without doing their due diligence as to how to run it successfully is likely headed for some melted parts. Just as Spud did when he was getting his program sorted out.

2. Bjuice, you were the one that brought up the bracket racing aspect. To my knowledge, no track allows nitro in bracket racing. Spud is not a bracket racer.

3. Ashbros, you posted a video on the first page showing how your engine only lasted four runs with nitro. Then you post it again on the last page, stating the engine was already about wore out and had already had 200 bottles of nitrous through it and you decided to have some fun with it. Not exactly a smoking gun here.

I didn't get the impression that Spud was suggesting to anyone that they run a 75% mix in their car just because he does in his. Seemed more to me he was establishing himself on a new forum as an authority on the subject, whcih is something everyone does.

Spud does run a succesful program and does enjoy helping others run theirs. He makes a business of it, and is quite good at what he does.

There are individuals that come in to these forums from time to time that are experts in their field. Spud is one of those people. You folks have pretty much ensured that he will not be a resource for RJ readers to look to, at least not on the forum.

Yes, I am one of Spuds customers and also list him among my friends.

I believe a few of you were out of line here.

Murff

[bjuice]

here is Spuds orginal reply Murff, Please tell me what part you agree with and what part you may have some questions about ? and try to imagine you do not know him on a personal level.

also i have no issues someone establishing theirselve but don't get a case of the ass when others express their opinion's as well...i think this is were it all went downhill..the theory of being able to give and and not being able to take it will not fly on any forum IMO.

the old phrase olds true again. "its ok to disagree but not to be disagreeable"


spudmiller
SHOW GUEST


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject:

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If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right.

Nitromethane is an extremely cost effective way to make economical parts and pieces perform like you wouldn't believe. The tone here seems to be that one would be foolish to run it and it would be like setting fire to good money. My sentiments are pretty much the opposite...buy the good liquid and feed it right to go fast instead of spending bucks on trick parts made out of unobtainium. Also, parts designed for brute strength are cheaper than trick, lightweight, canted-valve, jewelry. So, buy for strength and dump in more juice.

I ran an extremely cheap small block chevy for 5 seasons with almost no maintenance. Same bearings, same rings...I finally wore out the bores and retired it for new iron. It was running when I shut it off. In fact, its last pass was a final round appearance. Hundreds and hundreds of passes on 50-75% nitro. I did need to put two new pistons in it once due to over revving it on the burn out. Changed head gaskets a couple of times until I learned what worked. That's it. No trick parts or pieces and I was able to beat up pretty well on blown alcohol motors. It won many rounds, won quite a few events and I didn't spend a ton of money.

Spud Miller

[Murff]

If you hurt your stuff while running nitro, then you aren't doing it right.

Fair statement, as proven by the many people that don't set their tune on 'kill' and successfully run their program. Nothing controversial there.

Nitromethane is an extremely cost effective way to make economical parts and pieces perform like you wouldn't believe. The tone here seems to be that one would be foolish to run it and it would be like setting fire to good money. My sentiments are pretty much the opposite...buy the good liquid and feed it right to go fast instead of spending bucks on trick parts made out of unobtainium. Also, parts designed for brute strength are cheaper than trick, lightweight, canted-valve, jewelry. So, buy for strength and dump in more juice.

Again, nothing controversial here either. "Extremely cost effective way to make economical parts and pieces perform" sounds like an alternative is being offered to the usual high dollar engine components that most choose to build with. Please do not misconstrue my statement here as that high dollar stuff is very cool and powerful indeed. But if one was to shred a production block by missing the tune on nitro, or even alky, it would cost a lot less to replace that block than say a Dart or World piece.

I ran an extremely cheap small block chevy for 5 seasons with almost no maintenance. Same bearings, same rings...I finally wore out the bores and retired it for new iron. It was running when I shut it off. In fact, its last pass was a final round appearance. Hundreds and hundreds of passes on 50-75% nitro. I did need to put two new pistons in it once due to over revving it on the burn out. Changed head gaskets a couple of times until I learned what worked. That's it. No trick parts or pieces and I was able to beat up pretty well on blown alcohol motors. It won many rounds, won quite a few events and I didn't spend a ton of money.

Spud is not a story teller. He ran the car as stated. I guess this paragraph could be taken to say 'it worked for me, just do it', but I would hope that no one here (or anywhere else) would be so naive to take that as blanket endorsement to just do it.

I have no issue with debate, heated or casual, as long as that debate is done under the assumtion that the other person may know what they are talking about. Bjuice, I know you know what you are talking about and are very good at what you do, and you are a BMFIC here on RJ (I say that with respect). Spud also knows what he is talking about, and has the international client base to back it up.

Let's face it, there aren't that many nitro discussion that come up here on RJ. Most are about NA gas or alky, turbos and nitrous. An opportunity presented itself here for many people to be enlightened on the topic and many misconceptions laid to rest, whether anyone was ever going to squeeze a little pop or not.

I first came to RJ a few years ago when I was trying to set up my Enderle injection on my sbf. Not everyone was qualified to provide me with the answers I sought, but a few were and did. I did not take any one reply as the final word and continued to seek knowledge from other sources. Not that I doubted the info I had, but because I wanted verification. Due diligence.

And I do need to point out that if it wasn't for Spud Miller and Fuel Injection Enterprises, my heap and I would still be struggling to find our way down the track.

Bottom line, I expect more from RJ when someone like Spud comes on deck to share information.

Murff

[bjuice]

i appreicate and respect your opnion Murff but to clear soemthing up. i am Not RJ nor am i employeed by them in any fashion.

As far as i am concerned Spud is welcome on here anytime he wishes to come on and participate. The only thing is he needs to understand as well as others that there may be different ideas and opinions that may not be in agreement with the subject at hand that one post..

i too have made post others haven't agreed with but i never got tiffed about it beacuse this is a forum/discussion board and other opinions are tolerated ( or should be) :D

i will not try to rehash the thread or try to defend or prove where it went down hill, its all here for anyone to read and form their own opinion's as to who drew 1st Blood etc...

i still stand behind my position with no regrets...( speaking for me only)

thanks Brian

[ashbros]

bjuice I am with you. Your example of the detination process is so true.

I have worked the pits with national nhra teams and spent half my life growing up in a dyno shop specializing in blown top alcohol and nitro burning monsters.

Nitro can be a lil fun to toy with, but I have also been in awe. After watching so many high dollar, best of the best, money can buy horsepower machines bite the dust, throwing their guts on the dyno or onto the tract, after 1, 2 or three passes. It is devistating.

After three runs using 85% nitro the motors always undergo a TOTAL REBUILD, new everything. Thats if the motor made it that far.

Unless you have an engine sitting around that just might have seen better days, you don't mind experimenting with it, you are looking for a learning curve, have the need to know or don't care about blowing blow a few thousand bucks, leave that stuff in the can.

On a more serious note, a higher level of fire safety should be addressed as well.

[OneBadGMC]

Good job on running off another resource. You should be proud.
Now if you guys could give me pointers how to drive a car with Nitro ,i would appreaciate it.