Tuning a toilet!!

[altune]

I need some advice on tuning a Alcohol rons toilet system,
I need to know egt's on idle what is optimal, so that the oil does not milk so badly, I have heard 400- 500 degrees. Right now we have it at 5200 and 1800rpm.
I have adjusted the barel valve to get the temp up a bit.
wonder if even higher egt's would be better but not to affect throttle response.
anybody??

[zipper06]

See this post
http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7166

The 55 runs at about 500 degrees at 1200 rpm, we also have a highspeed leanout pill of .014 rpm activiated at 7000 rpm.

Zip.

[altune]

How does the lean out work? It is t'd on the pressure side? then back to the tank?
did you run it w/o the leanout? if so what was the increase in trap or et?
we have all the stuff to set it up that way but have never tried.
what to look for on top end, for tuning ? We have a sbc 436 with some sbc heads flowed at 355cfm in. @ .700 lift,
nozzles are 36 and return pill of 88 in there. gold 1/2 pump I think.

[zipper06]

If you look closely at the picture you can see the hispeed leanout at the bottom of the picture. It's electric and controled with a MSD adjustable rpm controler. Look at the barrel valve and you can see the input line in front and the return line exit toward the drivers fender, that line is plumbed into the hispeed which is activated at what ever rpm the controler is set at, then plumbed back to the tank. It actually never come into play in the 1/8 mile, but in the qtr. it picks up a few hundreds and a mile or 2 in trap speeds. This car has a gold "0" pump and #36 nozzles, so i think it might help a bigger pump a little more on top end too keep the EGT and engine temp more on a level basis. On my car i don't run a hispeed leanout, and it definately suffers on top end. running 6.52 1/8 and 10.59 only 125mph, it should 128 plus. I leave the line at at 180/190 degrees and i'm down to 160 by the time i hit traps. I can run round robin and never turn on the fan.

JMO

Zip.

[altune]

I am having some consumption issues also with this setup. It seems, we run the car for 3-4 mins at idle and it comsumes almost one 3 gal tank.
somethings got to be wrong with that.
my return pill is 88. we adjusted the idle egt to 520 deg. so its ont too rich.
is this normal? With my old setup 414 engine alcohol carb, it used maybe 2 gals a run. this one seems liek it will blow thru the 3 in one run.
the heads are sbc old pro stock pontiac 867's reworked by Self to flow in the 355 cfm intake at .700
Al

[suicidebomb]

Sounds like it might be a leettle fat, I have been told that most of the oil dilution, happens at idle. I am far from an expert, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night. :shock:

[zipper06]

I am having some consumption issues also with this setup. It seems, we run the car for 3-4 mins at idle and it comsumes almost one 3 gal tank.
somethings got to be wrong with that.
my return pill is 88. we adjusted the idle egt to 520 deg. so its ont too rich.
is this normal? With my old setup 414 engine alcohol carb, it used maybe 2 gals a run. this one seems liek it will blow thru the 3 in one run.
the heads are sbc old pro stock pontiac 867's reworked by Self to flow in the 355 cfm intake at .700
Al

That's way,way too fat. That 55 doesn't use more than 1 1/2 gal. in the qtr. and we park about the 1/8 mile mark and drive too the line and back too the pits. My 377" doesn't burn more than a 1 gal. and that's also driving to the line and back too the pits. A friend has a 1992 Camero, 434" with 2 toilet bowls on a tunnel ram weigh 2700lbs, runs 8.80/8.90 and doesnt use but about 2 gal. and that's also driving to the line and back to the pits. He has no leanouts at all, using a gold 1/2 pump.
2 possible sineros, 1 is the pump is weak at idle and you may not be getting enough fuel flow, giving you a false egt reading. Try setting the barrel valve at 18/20% leakdown and see what the egt reading is at 1200 rpm idle.
By the way it was 92 degrees friday nite and 78% humidity, it rained on us on the way too the track, and it had rained 2 hrs. earlier at the track. Which was one reason the track was so slick.
Anyway my suggestion would be to first make sure the barrel valve is set in the neighborhood of 20% and we can go from there.

Zip.

[zipper06]

Sounds like it might be a leettle fat, I have been told that most of the oil dilution, happens at idle. I am far from an expert, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night. :shock:

HeHE, the last time i stayed at the holiday inn, the toilet didn't work :lol:

Zip. :P

[altune]

Thanks,
I don't have a leak down tester, where to get one? It is something special?
I am new at this toilet stuff.
I am pretty effecient on carbs but virtually no experiance with toilets.
or fuel injection.
Al

[zipper06]

speedway sells one very reasonable, about $80.00 i think, maybe even less. you will have to have an adaptor to fit the barrel valve, it comes with a sparkplug fitting for checking cylinder leakdown. It's for sure if you're going to run injection of any kind it will come in handy.

Zip.

[altune]

I can use a spark plug type leak down tester?
I have one already.
thanks
Al

[lively]

I PUT ONE OF THOSE PLASTIC LINERS IN THE TOP TANK AND DON'T USE NEAR AS MUCH LIQUID NOW!!-BUT----I HAVE TO THROTTLE IT TWICE ALOT OF TIMES TO MAKE IT WORK RIGHT!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

LIVELY

[zipper06]

I can use a spark plug type leak down tester?
I have one already.
thanks
Al

Yep all they are, are 2 pressure gages, one for input of the 100lbs air, hook a hose to the opposite gage, then hook that to the valve body infeed, open the gage and the difference between one gage and the other is the amount of leakdown, adjust the barrel valve until you are reading 80lbs. Start there. Once i have that reading and fire the car up, i keep backing it down until it burps when you crack the throttle, i then start cranking it up 2 flats at a time until it doesn't burp.
I then take another leakdown reading and i know exactly what the leakdown is and what the system likes. I know that James Monroe (from Rons), likes another method and i'm sure it works, i just haven't tried it. He sets the barrel valve for good response, then comes up on the converter to see how high it will stall. He then backs it down about a 1/2 turn and again checks how high it will stall, then goes the opposite way and checks the stall. Then picks an adjustment to the highest stall.
Once you have that setting correct the milking will not be bad at all unless you let it idle a lot. I also drive to the staging area with the shutoff valve half open too put heat in the motor.
On the hilborn stacks, i run an idle bypass set at 15lbs, the idle bypass closes off at 15/20% throttle.


JMO

Zip.
Mine is set on 17% because that's what it likes

[altune]

Makes alot of sense.
I will get the leakdown done and see what I get.
If the egt's are too high when the leak down is set, then I have to have a weak pump at idle, Yes?
I use a primer system on race fuel so no problem on milking to the line etc, and return.
Al

[zipper06]

IMO, if the leakdown is set pretty close, i wouldn't worry about the idle EGT, i would go instead to the full throttle run and keep the EGT in the neighborhood of 1200 degrees with the jetting/return pill. that's the way i do it, and most of the people i know who run injection. some cars run better with a little higher than 1200 degrees, some run better with a little less. Obviously the higher egt reading the leaner running engine, and actually better in most cases.

JMO and experiences

Zip.

[altune]

Thanks ZIp
Good advice
Al